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Comments
What is the purpose of having those big trucks if not to have some fun in the dirt? Their reply was they didn't want to get their car dirty or scratched up, and they only have the AWD for bad weather. Unbelievable to me!
Mark
I arrived late, so as I was alone for that night, and tired after the trip, I just flip the backseats down and slept inside the van! The only thing I missed was the AWD, cause 7 miles were on gravel roads, and the Sienna felt unstable (even with VSC).
I'll be first on the list the day Subaru decides to bring a minivan.
I'm boarderline between the minivan and the big SUV. We had the minivan and it was nice except for the camping trips and towing our 2200lb popup camper (guessed loaded weight). Our camper isn't one of the bigger popups. At 1800lbs empty its one of the smaller models. However the camper, plus 4 passengers, plus 5 bikes and rack starts to get close to the 3500lb limit. Driving dynamics were terrible in the loaded minivan while towing.
Now the newer crossover Pilot/Acadia types are faily attractive. Near minivan people movers, better daily drivers, better mpg, but only slightly, and better towing than the minivans.
We're camping this weekend and will be taking the MPV instead of my Forester - only because we need the room for the tents, chairs, food, wait, can't forget the kitchen sink. Plus the bikes can go on the hitch bike rack. I'd surely take my FXT if it was just DW & I.
-Brian
I know the SUV is not for off-road driving, it's just I still find it funny that they go and buy these big trucks yet are afraid to take them on dirt roads, much less any type of "off-road" experience. I remember when I told them about one of the trips Paisan set up a couple of years ago going through the Pine Barrens with a bunch of Subies. He invited anyone to join us, yet when I asked my family they gave me the same response as this past weekend - You're nuts!
As for camping, it's amazing how we can't leave the creature comforts of home anymore. I was in my little 2 man backpacking tent while everyone else was in a 6 or 8 person tent (for only 2 adults, sometimes with 2 kids). Although my nephew did bring along his tailgate grill - the Fire & Ice (grill with cooler) which I found to be very convenient
Mark
Yeah and not too long ago the typical home was a 1200 sq ft 3 bedroom 1 bath. Now it's not all that unusual to see a new home with a garage almost that big!
When I was a kid my family of six all rode around in a 4 door Plymouth sedan. We even used it for the 12 hr drive (without AC) to spend the week at the beach. Times sure have changed....
-Frank
We got around, 5 of us, in a lead sled, a big Buick Electra coupe, 2 doors! With 3 kids in the wide bench in the back.
My kids have it good. They each get a captain's chair, a window seat, and a movie along the way. Plus they can bring up to 4 friends.
I have a medium sized tent for 3-4, but I couldn't get my wife to go camping if there was a 5 karat diamond in it for her. Maybe I'll take the kids one of these days. We're going to a farm for July 4th and it would be a good chance to try that, we'll see. With my luck it would either rain or be one of those hot summer nights.
We could always chicken out and sleep in the van. The floor is bigger than a 4'x8'. :shades:
Of course we'd have to hand carry the tent back there to the camping area, no way would the van make it without AWD.
I took the Ramada offroading 1x so far. It did well but the stock contis were horrible. The running board held me up on the rocks and the front air-dam was also a limiting factor. If I removed the side steps and the air dam and had my Bridgestone AT Revos it would have been great offroad. Also got a few scratches on it due to the width.
For towing you can't beat the new SUVs. 10,000lbs w/o a problem at 70mph and AC and 10mpg is not bad in my book.
I won't take the Armada off-roading anymore though, at least not what I consider offroading (rock crawling, mud up and over the hood, etc) I have and will take it "off-roading" on normal people's standards though.
-mike
-mike
(this from the woman who c-o-owns a Lincoln "Townhouse")
Bob
So, normal human hours I hope?
Good luck,
Mark
That was funny! It reminded me of my own youth...five kids in the back seat of my father's 1965 two-door Pontiac Catalina, squeezed together on the Pep Boys vinyl seat covers (that Dad insisted on putting in every car as soon as he bought it) with no A/C. I remember many nights piling in, wearing our PJs, going to the drive-in movies. I most remember the original '60s Batman movie!
Len
7-3:30 are the hours
AZP will be getting cranked up bigtime, 6-9pm T, W, Th
-mike
One of these days I have to pick up, then schedule the install of the tranny cooler with you guys. Just haven't made the time yet.
Mark
Looks like fun, huh?!
I read about your pulling over all the time to let traffic by over in Inconsiderate Drivers.
What I really want to know is how many rubberneckers in RVs did you pass? :shades:
Bob
It is a little early for RVs to be out in force, though I did let a few pass.
Not sure what to say regarding not being able to see the image. I just linked it from Car Space and it is coming up fine for me using the "embedded" option.
-Dave
Image displayed fine for me, btw.
interesting 'circus' ..lol
so far we've rearranged furniture, and unpacked the kids ... got the basic 'rules' going .. they've really had a good first week as far as I'm concerned, but I don't know who said that kids keep you YOUNG! .. I feel old and exhausted every night! lol .. I need a nap!
I work with the kids at school all day long, but somehow it's not the same as dealing with all the day to day stuff ... and the kids are dealing with lots of changes in their lives right now ...
They are having fun with a jar in the evenings to catch fireflies ... they have been to Indiana Beach once and will go again next Tuesday when DH goes to make taffy again ... we have been to the library and they both have their own cards and signed up for the summer reading program ... they have a basketball and a hoop at the vacant (abandoned) house next door ... we've been to the grocery store to get a few of their 'comfort foods' ... and I'm making sure they try to call their dad every day ... no matter how *I* feel about him right now, they need to keep the connection with both parents ... and I don't want him to think we're trying to keep them from him ...
so it's been an interesting week, and will likely get more interesting as we go ... they're great kids .. too bad life hits 'em so early and so hard ...
Cheers!
Paul
-mike
The hardest part about this particular trip was that the Ford was heavier than my truck and did not track perfectly, so it was constantly whipping me back and forth. This was exacerbated going downhill, so it was very nerve-wracking to navigate the hills between Nenana and Fairbanks (some very long, 1-2 mile, steep grades) while trying to be responsive to other drivers' desire to go at speeds closer to (or exceeding) the speed limit. Couple it with a sleepy 3-year-old who was sitting in a truck for 10+ hours by that point and it was "challenging." But, the pup fell asleep part way through the hills and that allowed me to focus my attention entirely on the road.
I towed a trailer worth about 10,000# with it once... oh, and I had 53 sheets of 3/4" OSB in the bed of the truck at the same time. Again, just took it slow and steady.
-mike
May end up selling the WRX because we want a new trailer. You'll need to hang on tight to follow this explanation. Here goes: The old Airstream is simply too tight for 4 kids and a dog. New bigger trailer will be beyond the limits of our 1/2 ton Suburban. Here's where I tell Mike he's full of it, because big hauling SUV's are passe despite what he says. My old 1500 Yukon XL has a higher towing rating than the base 3/4 ton 2007 does. If we want to tow a 6000-7000# travel trailer with the family of 6 and the dog, plus our stuff then we will blow by the GCVWR or the GVWR of the Armada or the new Expedition Max (EL on the wrong side of the 49) The 4.10 diff 2007 Suburban/Yukon XL just makes it to the party, but there are 3 of them in all of western Canada. $70k Canadian ( about 65k U$D) if I want one.
To put things in perspective, we live in a place where every 2nd vehicle is a full size pick-up and the local Chev dealer hasn't sold a 3/4 ton Suburban off the lot in 3 years. Simple solution? Buy a used pre 2006 8.1L Suburban to tow the trailer we want. They are hard to find, but we have a line on 2 of them. Our concern is that we feel some environmental guilt using a 454 cc guzzler as our daily family driver for all the rest of the time we aren't towing. To feel better, I am offering up my Wrx as the sacrificial lamb for a second family hauler.
3 years ago I was ecstatic to find a car that carried the whole family and set my heart racing at the same time. We have since been blessed with child number 4 which changes the options considerably. I should be very clear here - we consider ourselves so lucky to have our lives complicated this way.
Now I'm looking for a 6 passenger vehicle which can handle winters which last 5 months, so I want AWD and heated seats preferably leather. Final decision is between the Ford Freestyle and the Toyota Sienna. Yes, I have been witness to Juice being a hater on the "other" boards slagging the Ford product, but it is the front runner right now. Up here, Toyota is even more annoying in their complex packaging that the better side of the 49th. With Toyota you can have AWD or leather or pay $10k more for the XLE to get both. You also get tons of crap I don't want to pay for. I can get both in the Freestyle for $14k less and even considering residual values we are farther ahead. Still, I know that a minivan is so convenient as a daily family vehicle. 15 months after selling our Gen 1 Sienna, we knew we were pregnant and wished we had kept it. I can handle a wagon as a daily driver without reservation. A minivan, I'm not so sure. Still, the 08 Freestyles will have the bigger engine and 6 sp auto so I expected the 07's to have serious discounts and it hasn't happened yet. Even then, I'd prefer an 07 for the better gas mileage. Not sure whether to wait for the savings or risk losing out. The last 07 Freestyle rolled off the line last month apparently.
Wouldn't life be boring if it was simple?
Freestyle was definitely a vehicle that should've sold better than it did... I think of it as sort of a big Outback. I think it was marketing and poor performance that did in the Freestyle. (Hmm... didn't realize there was gonna be an '08 Freestyle. Thought it was discontinued along w/Freestar to be replaced by the new Fairlane.) If you go with the Ford, I'd look for a very lightly used one - let someone else take the big depreciation hit on that one.
How did Honda Pilot fare in your considerations?
2007 2500 series Suburban tows 9500lbs
2008 Armada tows 9100lbs
If your trailer is 6500 that leaves you with 3,000lbs for people, and stuff.
Also a side note the 8.1L engine isn't a 454, it's a 496
-mike
Pilot - more expensive, more trucky, worse mpg.
With mountains East, West and South of where we are, I'd like more margin than that. Plus the fact that in 4-5 years I'll have 3 teenage boys so another 250# will be added.
GVWR is also an issue. Loaded trailer tongue weight can easily hit 900-1000# then add the above 1000# for us and gas puts most vehicles over their limit.
EG Armada
Curb weight without options 5600-5675#
GVWR 7100#
Tongue weight limit 900#.
Tongue weight by itself is marginal and combined with a family of 6 = 1800-2000#. That blows that payload limit of 1400# out of the water.
Highway enforcement folks in BC a couple of years ago started pulling RV'ers over to the scales and many were charged with hauling beyond the stated GVWR. Would like to avoid that.
New Expy extended can do 1900 payload and 9200 towing capacity, but that too is borderline. Only the Suburban has the payload we need, but still would be close to the tow limit AND I
don't want towon't spend over $70k after taxes on a new truck. So... used Suburban it is.I don't remember it well, and that's my complaint - not very memorable. Perhaps the new engine will help somewhat.
Here's the thing, if you're going to get rational and give up driving fun for space and efficiency, nothing beats a minivan. My Sienna does everything a little better than the Freestyle does, IMO.
Except give me AWD and leather for a reasonable price. If there was an AWD LE with leather at $41k there wouldn't be a question, I'd probably be all over it. Toyotas twisted system will force me to spend $14k for those two things versus Ford. Even considering resale, the ownership cost of the Sienna XLE will be higher -$200 per month difference in lease rates for example. The fact I'm still considering it tells you I do agree with you to some degree. Still, can't tell you the Sienna is a memorable drive either. Faster pick-up when you drop the hammer, no doubt, but I don't care about peel-outs with the kids along and still hate the body roll that comes with it. Freestyle's no WRX but it does handle better than the Sienna.
Nicholas
What is the last gen 2500 Suburban w/8.1L engine rated at?
-mike
:surprise:
Rarely is there a time when I haul anything without going over GVWR.
Anyway, it is too bad that a 5th wheel is not an option for you as that would make a ton of difference in terms of towability. Actually, it would make more than a ton of difference.
Also, for your tow rig, why not consider a diesel? More torque with better fuel economy. Sure, you will pay more upon purchase and perhaps more for fuel, but it will likely prove to be better suited to your needs considering you will be pushing any vehicle's towing capacity through hilly/mountainous terrain.
-mike
5 bikes, inflatable boat, 6 lifejackets, barbecue, 12x12 dining tent, 5 lounge chairs, bedding and clothes for 5 (now to be 6), jogger stroller, dog crate, 2 fire extinguishers, books, games. Tool kit, levelling pads, fire wood and then there's food. We tend to park in more remote provincial parks, so often have a week's worth of food for a family of 6 and then bottled water, juice, soft drinks, beer, wine. It adds up faster than you realize.
Old 8.1 has a payload limit of about 2500# and towing of 10500 for the 3.73 diff versus 12000 for the 4.10 iirc. Horsepower is quite low - about 320 I think, but 440ft-lbs of torque baby!
Luckily for me also we usually travel in a group and my buddy who has a Frontier towing a 3500lb boat takes all the food, coolers, spare tires, etc. in the back of his so that I run as light as possible.
-mike