Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II

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  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Yes, many people do go over, especially diesels which can still move the load. I was very disappointed that the rumoured diesel never materialized for the Suburban redesign. My local dealer made the point that if I thought $65k was too much for a 3/4 then how would I feel dropping another $6-8k to get a diesel? That would be a mighty skinny market I'm sure.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The minute that Chevy comes out with the Duramax in a Suburban, I will be down there with my deposit. The fuel economy alone on a Diesel over a gasser in that size is enough to get me to get one. Then add in the lower diesel prices, and the longer longevity, coupled with better towing capacity... :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    bottled water, juice, soft drinks

    It was crowded in there, too. :D

    -juice
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,741
    Oh! I did not realize GM did not put a diesel in their Yukon XL/Suburban vehicles. Odd, as they did in the past... :cry:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Mike, Nissan is reportedly in talks with Navistar about supplying the Titan (Armada?) with a diesel. I very much doubt it's the same Powerstroke engine used by Ford.

    http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/2933

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Wes Chevy hasn't had a diesel SUV in a LONG time, I think mid-80s most likely, maybe 89?

    -mike
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,741
    Ah, well, that's possible. I think the one my friend's dad owns is a... 93? But still, why go backward? Seems like if you put a diesel in a utility vehicle, you would keep doing it. I guess when GM moved toward SLVs rather than SUVs, they dumped the diesel. ;)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That 6.5L diesel IIRC was based off a 5.7L small block gas engine design and was possibly the worst engine GM put out. I think when they moved over to the Duramax and Allison transmissions the transmissions couldn't fit in the tunnels on the SUVs.

    -mike
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Heard that excuse too, but they could modify the 3 row seat to be only a two seater and achieve some room in the middle couldn't they? They already have full bench quad cab 1500HD's so the second row can't be the issue.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,741
    Well, regardless, I am with volkov on this one. It takes a "special" breed to drop $65K on a GM-anything. Let someone else eat the $20,000 depreciation and buy a used one.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Have you seen this news about the new 4.5L DuraMax diesel—and it's not an Isuzu unit?

    http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/2935

    It'll be in GM 1/2-tons by 2010.

    Bob
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,741
    Seems like a long way off, but a great development nonetheless. Were I not so hell-bent on 100% originality, I would be sorely tempted to plunk one of those in my '69! :D
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Did you see the Pimp My Ride episode with the BioDiesel Duramax? :D

    That was cool...
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,741
    Haha! No, no television for me. I put an average of maybe 15 minutes a week in front of a TV. :P
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You have to get out less often. ;)
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Hey it's officially SUMMER! So pull up a lawn chair and the beverage of your choice for our weekly Crew chat tonight! :shades:

    The Subaru Crew Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,741
    Bah. Get out less... that is the first time I have heard that! If I were to list off the projects (home-related, not paid!) on which I am currently working, you would no longer be surprised.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Me too, besides being very busy at work, we're building a deck. I have a carpenter but I'm buying supplies, so I'm the contractor and he's the sub.
  • fyredanfyredan Member Posts: 17
    I'm still having electrical problems with my 93 Legacy. When the battery is hooked up, the key will not return to lock or come out. When there is no power, the ignition works fine. I've swapped ignition switches- same thing happened. I've replaced the main fuse box and internal fuse box- no luck. Does anyone know where the relay is that ties to the ignition switch? Also, if anyone has any good ignition wiring diagrams please email them to me. Thanks in advance for your help.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That Q probably belongs in the Problems and Solutions thread. Here is a handy link:

    ateixeira, "Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions" #17233, 20 Jun 2007 1:06 pm
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,741
    Mixed feelings about selling it now that it is gone, but I am sure my remorse is simply because of how much I enjoyed driving it.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Alas, poor Outback, we hardly knew ye. :( Well, at least someone else will get to enjoy it. And you always have the possibility of another Subie in your future. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A neighbor just traded his 01 Legacy L (Wintergreen like ours, even) for an Outback with NAV, and I wouldn't mind doing the same thing.

    Wifey actually wants a Forester, though, so we'll wait until next year when the new ones come out.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Have you seen this news about the new 4.5L DuraMax diesel—and it's not an Isuzu unit?

    http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/2935

    It'll be in GM 1/2-tons by 2010.

    Bob

    What makes you say it isn't an Isuzu unit? The entire Duramax/Diesel Engine development portion of GM IS Isuzu. That is the portion of Isuzu that GM didn't give back when they sold back Isuzu the portion they didn't want. All the Duramax and Med-duty Trucks sold by GM are Isuzu as far as I know.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    What makes you say it isn't an Isuzu unit?

    Because GM said so, and has been reported thusly by several sources, one being the one below.

    "UPDATE: Pickuptruck.com's Mike Levine has learned from GM that despite sharing its name with the older 6.6L Duramax diesel that was developed in partnership with Isuzu, the new 4.5L Duramax was developed completely in-house by GM."

    http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/15/gm-announces-clean-diesel-v8-for-pickups-and-the-hummer-h2/

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Right which unfortunately is a mis-nomer. It's developed in-house by GM, but the division of GM that developed it is the part that is Isuzu. GM wholely owns the US Isuzu Diesel Engine development company, so while "technically" it's GM in-house, it's not GM. Basically in a technical world it's 100% GM, but it's only because GM owns 100% of the Diesel engine production that Isuzu had in the US.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Not sure I agree with that Mike. They went out of their way to say that earlier DuraMax diesels were developed "in partnership with Isuzu" while this one was done "100% by GM." That suggests to me Isuzu was not involved with the new 4.5L diesel, or if they were, it was to a very minor degree.

    I'll try to contact someone who can confirm or deny. Stay tuned.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yeah look into that if you have time. I have a very strong feeling that it's typical GM smoke and mirrors. "It's 100% GM" well yeah of course it will be 100% GM since GM now own's the American Isuzu Diesel Engine manufacturing and engineering company.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Could go either way. GM might have just hired away those engineers.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I contacted via e-mail both PickupTruck.com (who, to the best of my knowledge, was the first to post this story) and GM's PR department (who released the original PR on this engine). I asked Isuzu had any any input with this new engine, or if it was an all-GM engineering design.

    I haven't yet heard back from GM, but PickupTruck.com confirmed what I was saying, that yes it was a 100% GM effort, and not an Isuzu effort. They got this info directly from the same source I e-mailed at GM.

    When I hear back from the GM PR department I'll let you know.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That may be a matter of what you mean by "Isuzu". Their old light truck engineering dept was basically absorbed by GM, wasn't it? Separating from Isuzu's heavy industries division.

    Dodge has done well with Cummins, and GM did well with Duramax/Isuzu. Ford was the only one struggling (with Navistar).

    I see no purpose for GM to change directions like that. Maybe it's just a matter of pride; they want to say it's their own diesel. I guess it is if they bought that portion of Isuzu.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Their old light truck engineering dept was basically absorbed by GM, wasn't it? Separating from Isuzu's heavy industries division.

    I don't know anything about that. What seems to be coming across is that this engine wasn't done like the other DuraMax engines, or by the same people. Did GM hire some Isuzu engineers? I have no idea. It wouldn't surprise if some people moved from Isuzu to GM and vice-versa. That happens all the time in large corporations with cross links like these two have.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You don't seem to understand the dynamics of what took place. The original Duramax was designed by the Isuzu Diesel Engine division in the US. This was when Isuzu was owned by GM, but was still "independent". When GM sold back their 100% ownership of Isuzu America to Isuzu the parent, they kept the Diesel Engine division as their own.

    Think of it this way, AT&T and Cingular were merged together, then they called the service Cingular, now we have changed the name again so it's AT&T. The technology is still Cingular, the stores are still Cingular, etc. etc. However AT&T can now tout it as it's own since they own Cingular in it's entirety.

    So this is basically an exercise in semanics on GMs part. They can (and they paid for it so why not) claim the technology as their own, but in the end it's only because they BOUGHT the whole entire Isuzu Diesel Engine division!

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    basically an exercise in semanics

    semantics, but yes, I agree.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I need to spell check more often, you are always correcting my spelling! :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But it was so well said! ;)

    I don't use spell check, either.

    Funny and true story: in grade school I put a cover on a textbook, and wrote "Grammer". Never heard the end of that! :D
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I don't know where you guys are getting the info on GM buying Isuzu diesel. I looked for links and couldn't find any.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    10% common sense, 90% speculation. :D

    But hey, that's what we do!
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    semanics may be the way NY'ers say it ;)

    only thing I found so far on it was this from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMAX_(engines)

    -Brian
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    my boss's last name is birch ... and just one keystroke to the right of the 'r' on the keyboard appears to change my respect to something 'else' ....

    lol .. i have to be VERY careful typing her name ...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Careful there fastest fingers! :D
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    GM owned all of Isuzu of America. Then sometime around 2002ish Isuzu the parent company bought back from GM all their stock in Isuzu of America, however as part of the deal, GM kept the portion of Isuzu of America that produced the Duramax Diesel and all the associated technology, including the engine plant, etc. So GM basically blew out the rest of the company on a bargain basement sale because it was at this point worthless due to GMs essentially strangling their marketing of the SUVs.

    This was why when GM owned part of Subaru, I was VERY VERY worried about them doing similar to Subaru, basically strangling their marketing, and then yanking the boxer engine portion and AWD systems, then selling the rest of the company which at that point would be worthless back to FHI and running off with the shining part of the business. Thankfully FHI was able to get out from under GM before they fell victim to them.

    -mike
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    but, don't forget about Toyota: "They also acquired 5.9% of Isuzu Motors Ltd. on November 7, 2006 and will be introducing Isuzu diesel technology into their products."

    -Brian
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Correct, they bought 5.9% of Isuzu (parent company in Japan) and will be using the Isuzu diesels developed in Japan by Isuzu of Japan, which is different than the Diesels designed and built by Isuzu of America/Duramax which is now part of GM.

    -mike
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    During my first newspaper job, this typo nearly made it into print: Whitworth College… right below the "W" is the "S" key. :surprise: Thank heavens for good editors. Funny one did make it through (not my mistake) talking about a golfer sinking a birdie butt. :D
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Heard back from the GM PR guy who originally issued the PR on this engine. Here's his response to my query:

    The new 4.5L V8 diesel is entirely a GM design. We have a dedicated, passionate team of knowledgeable engineers, planners and other teams working the details every day to make this a win for the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra.

    So take it for what it's worth. Until I see real evidence that the Isuzu diesel team was swallowed by GM, I'm going with this guy's response.

    Bob
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    we had an elementary school student handbook that went out a few years ago with a glaring typo ....

    it was supposed to read ... Shirt must be tucked into pants at all times ....

    The 'r' was omitted from the word shirt .....

    I don't suppose too many parents took the time to really read it, because there weren't too many complaints!
  • hammerheadhammerhead Member Posts: 907
    ...soon to be Whitworth University...
    Jeff, when were you in Spokane?
    (I'm there now which is why I ask...)

    Small world-itis strikes again!
    Cheers!
    Paul
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Paul -
    This was for the newspaper over here in Everett... don't remember anymore what the story was about, probably a brief summary of football game or something about a local prep player attending Whitworth.

    Great to see them adding "University" status. Our area has been lobbying very hard for a new state college here - at over 600k residents, it's the most populous county in the US without a public 4-year school. Unfortunately (IMHO) looks like it'll be a UW branch campus rather than a standalone. Building 1 college (The Evergreen State) in the last, what, 100 years or so, while the population skyrockets, is just insane. We've got some nice new stadiums, though, and a large population of billionaires. Nobody wants to pay to build a college or fund its operation. :sick:

    Spokane's nice - lovely old architecture, too. My wife grew up on South Hill and in the little community of Valley Ford south of the city.
  • hammerheadhammerhead Member Posts: 907
    hehe.. yeah, I know Valleyford... I was a volunteer firefighter for the department that's headquartered there in the 70's & 80's... worked/lived in the Moran Prairie & Ponderosa stations, as well as fill-in dispatch at the station in beautiful downtown Valleyford. :) I'm a transplanted South Hill brat myself - Hamblen Elementary. In the Valley now - in the Central Valley HS vicinity.

    Cheers!
    Paul
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