Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II

originalbitman · May 2001

I think the Legacy interior is okay. Some of the plastic parts do seem a little cheaper than others. For instance the material on top of the dash is very nice but some of the trim is a little less so. I am glad I swapped the plastic wood for L trim gray. Anyone with and L looking for fake wood?

bit

drew_ · May 2001

No, you're not the only one. :-) I love the V70 wagon's styling. It looks fast even when it's not moving. However, I don't like what Volvo has done to the XC (or Audi for the Allroad) with the black cladding. I don't like the styling of those wheels either.

Ross, that license plate on the Legacy is odd. Do you know what it is? A diplomat plate or something?

ateixeira · May 2001

Kate - Hutch and I both preferred the IS300 over the 323i at Edmunds Live too (both automatics).

-juice

drew_ · May 2001

Kate, I believe EdmundsLive had a 323i with the auto tranny. I test drove the 330xi (AWD) auto sedan last weekend and was impressed with the power and torque that is available. Since the dealership (Brian Jessel) was close to SFU, I took it up the hill and had no problems accelerating w/o having to downshift.

The car was pricey at over CD$61K+, almost fully loaded. They did have a special promo for this month, where the $3100 AWD option would be no charge; they're trying to clear out the '01s. Oddly, it was missing a few safety features for that price though, such as head protection airbags for the rear occupants, a centre rear head restraint, as well as a centre rear 3 point lap and shoulder seat belt. Oh and the changes that BMW made to the steering for '01 were horrible. It almost felt as numb and light as the Camry! Not a good thing for a Bimmer.

Sadly, we don't get any of the 3-series wagons in Canada. Perhaps the arrival of the MB C320 wagon this fall will force BMW to reconsider this decision. The 330xi wagon looks like a hoot!

As for the paint charge, that's for metallic paint only, and on some MBzs, there is also something similar.

drew_ · May 2001

...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards

kens · May 2001

Shoot. Won't be able to attend the chat tonight. Got dinner plans. Hope y'all have fun!

Ken

ateixeira · May 2001

Looks like we'll have a couple of new owners joining in. Should be fun.

-juice

nygreg · May 2001

Can't make it tonight. Hockey game. Hope the injury holds up.

-Greg

hammersley · May 2001

I'll be at the chat... maybe even on time!
Hockey game? I'll multi-task!

Cheers!
Paul

nygreg · May 2001

Sorry about the Leafs last night. Tonights Buffalo game should be good. But I have my own game to play - semi-old guys trying to relive their youth. Still can't keep up with you Canadian friends up north.

-Greg

sibbald · May 2001

I think it is a personalized licence plate for a Ham radio operator. You use to see a lot of them around but not so much anymore. It would be their call sign.

Cheers, Tom

drew_ · May 2001

Nice to see someone else from BC! The thing with that license plate is that it doesn't seem to be a personalised plate. I have the personalised plates on my vehicle, but they're completely different. That Subaru's plate doesn't have the usual BC flag after the first 3 characters, but instead has it on the left hand lower corner. It also has only one number in it, and 5 alphabets. Any ideas, officer? ;-) This is the Boundary Bay driving centre/airport, BTW.

Here's another angle:

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

armac13 · May 2001

it's a mystery to me. There just isn't enough detail in the pic. Is it in fact a BC plate? It's not a personalized and you're right Drew, it obviously doesn't have the separating flag. Hmmm.

Ross

texsubaru · May 2001

"Pink Cadillac" by Bruce Springsteen mentions Subaru, though I seem to recall the line being mildly negative (don't remember it exactly, maybe something like "my love's too big for a Subaru"), at least relative to the titular pink Caddy.

hammersley · May 2001

Semi-old guy? I must be over the hill... no way would i ever play hockey now!
One of my battalion chiefs at work broke arm last year & leg this year in a league like that... who knows what he'll mangle next year!

I play softball... catcher... and use ALL the equipment!

Cheers!
Paul

drew_ · May 2001

Here is the high res version of that picture:

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=137587&a=12271823&p=44715680&Sequence=0&res=high

armac13 · May 2001

It's still got me stumped. It doesn't look like a consul plate. I give up.

Ross

pattim3 · May 2001

Well, since Bruce is singing about leaving the Cadillac parked for the "fun" I image what he had in mind would be a "challenge" in the back of a Subaru.

As a Bruce Springsteen fan, we all (family) kind of sing that line a little louder than the rest when we're driving around.

Thanks for the reminder!

Patti

lucien2 · May 2001

*ahem* I believe it was "Yea my love is better than a honda, yea it's better than a Subaru...." No argument about Honda, and this was the era of the GL and the Justy, so I can't really argue with him.

francophile · May 2001

By way of a preamble for those who may not be familiar with me or this forum, I own a 2000 Legacy GT sedan, manual tranny, no leather. Okay, I've got my nomex undies on and my boxing headgear strapped to my head. Here goes:

I agree with the review almost 100%.

One area in which the Subaru will not eclipse its rivals is exterior styling.

Let's face it, people; the Audi A4 and 3-series Bimmers are among the most handsome automobiles on the planet, particularly among sedans. The reviewer said that the Subie does not look *better* than them, and he's right. I think it looks at least as good as the vee-dub, and I also think it is a good looking car in its own right, but it is up against incredible competition. The Legacy looks purposeful, solid, and handsome. Dare I say pragmatic. I like it just fine.

The Legacy GT Limited's interior styling won't impress too many people, either. It tries too hard to look upscale by including a lot of shiny, fake wood trim, and the rest of the dash is made of hard plastics and other rigid materials, so it comes off looking cheap and flimsy. And the gathered styling of the leather upholstery reminds us more of an Oldsmobile than a sporty sedan. This is a mistake for Subaru. The automaker should embrace its utilitarian image instead of trying to tart it up with cheap cosmetics.

Hurrah! THIS is what I've been thinking all along and could not put into words. Replace "utilitarian" with "pragmatic" and it is spot-on. I would *love* it if my Legacy looked more purposeful inside and had less useless fake wood. More choices like heated seats/mirrors/etc., and less phony wood trim, would suit me perfectly.

I have to admit that this is an area where opinion matters greatly, because Carol thinks the wood trim looks just dandy :-)

It may not provide the luxury, status or driving experience of its competition,

Hold it right there, buster. This is one area where reviewers in general seem to be predisposed to offer particular opinions about particular cars. Audis and Bimmers are great driver's cars, blah blah blah. Subies are practical mail carriers, yada yada. Too bad for them, because the Legacy is a very, very satisfying driver's car. I insist on a car that I like to drive, a car that I *want* to drive, hour after hour and day after day, on freeways, city streets, and winding back roads. My Subie does extremely well in that regard. It really irks me that they think nothing of saying, "oh well of course you need to spend $1500 to get the sport suspension" when talking Bimmer, but when they talk about the Legacy they assume it just isn't going to be as satisfying. Put them in a B4 Legacy with 280 HP, would you PLEASE! Then maybe they'll stop with the predisposed opinions.

The other thing they missed, as most reviewers do, is the quality, longevity and *total* cost of ownership side of the Subaru experience. This is a traditional strength of the marque and I'm sure it has a lot to do with why people in the Adironacks and elsewhere drive Subies.

So. Like I said, almost 100%.

Cheers,
-wdb

Karen_S · May 2001

SUBARU LAUNCHES WWW.RALLY.SUBARU.COM,

OFFICIAL SITE OF SUBARU RALLY TEAM USA

CHERRY HILL, N.J., May 10, 2001 -- Subaru of America, Inc. (SOA), a pioneer of crossover vehicles designed for the active lifestyle, has launched www.Rally.Subaru.Com. The new portal web site provides rally enthusiasts with the latest news and updates from Subaru Rally Team USA for the 2001 SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) ProRally season. The site was developed by BZ Productions.

In addition to real-time race results and performance specifications on the 2002 Impreza WRX Rally Team USA rally car, racing enthusiasts can view images from the 2001 SCCA ProRally racing season, read team member bios, get a detailed overview of SCCA ProRally race venues, or send email to the team. Subaru Rally Team USA has scored back-to-back victories in the last two rounds of the SCCA ProRally championship, finishing first in the Open class, first place overall and first in Group N.

In February 2001, Subaru forged a strategic partnership with the SCCA, enabling owners of the high-performance 2002 Subaru Impreza WRX models to receive a complimentary, one-year club membership. The SCCA is the leading sanctioning body for professional and amateur road racing, rally and autocross events in the United States. The partnership also designates Subaru as an "Official Supporter of the SCCA."

About the Team

A truly world class effort, Subaru Rally Team USA is a collaboration between Subaru of America, Inc., Subaru Tecnica International (STi) and Subaru World Rally team representative, Prodrive. Subaru Rally Team USA's drivers include reigning SCCA Pro Rally Group N Champion Karl Scheible and British National Rally Champion, Mark Lovell. Scheible, along with co-driver Brian Maxwell, will pilot a 2002 Impreza WRX in the Group N class, while Lovell and co-driver Steve Turvey will compete for top honors in the Open class.

- more -

For additional information on Subaru Impreza WRX, visit www.ImprezaWRX.com.

About Subaru of America, Inc.

Subaru of America, Inc. is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. of Japan. Subaru pioneered the concept of the passenger car/sport-utility vehicle with the introduction of the Subaru Outback, the "World's First Sport Utility Wagon." The Subaru Legacy is the best selling All-Wheel Drive car sold in America, based on the Polk Company retail registration statistics as of 12/31/00.

Headquartered near Philadelphia, the company markets and distributes Subaru vehicles, parts and accessories through a network of 588 dealers across the United States. All Legacy and Outback models sold in the United States are produced at the Subaru-Isuzu Automotive Inc. manufacturing plant near Lafayette, Ind. Over the past eight years, the company has seen its sales increase by nearly 100 percent thanks to its popular line of car-based sport utility vehicles, and is among the fastest growing brands in the automobile industry.

KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs

kate5000 · May 2001

I very much dislike 3-series styling. Legacy beats it hands down in my view. But I agree w/you on that fake wood thing. I'd rather take a cheaper plain plastic interior with more features. After all, those who want luxury, can take the car to a custom shop for real wood inserts, or chrome, or carbon fiber/brushed aluminum... or whatever is "in". I was quoted $350 for real wood inserts in my Forester's dash which seems not too bad. But I like it as is, just fine.

Karen_S · May 2001

Is anyone out nearing the end of your lease, or maybe even not that close to the end, but are already getting offers to buy the vehicle from the lessor? It doesn't matter if you plan to take the offer or not. Does this describe your situation? If so, please post your story in our discussion Talk to the Press, or respond directly to Jeannine Fallon, our PR Director at Edmunds jfallon@Edmunds.com. As always, your identity will be protected at your request.

Thanks much!

KarenS
Host
Owner's Clubs

lucien2 · May 2001

No Nomex needed. I lost at least one sale to VW because of interior; my friend Darin went with a Passat because the interior wasn't all fake wood, just purposeful matte, high quality plastic.

I also agree with you about reviewers' tendency to laud the Germans and poo everyone else. I notice in CAR magazine (UK), a mag that consistently hands the Germans the best handling mantle, consistently praises Legacy for its fine handling in a practical package.

lucien2 · May 2001

" A quote from a SOA person here in Colorado: (no, I am not telling who it is)

'Subaru of America is currently testing the 2002 Legacy with the 2.0 litre turbocharged engine from the WRX. It is currently being trialed in the intermountain west to determine if it would be a good marketing move for us to bring here as a sports sedan competitor for BMW, Audi, Saab, Acura, Lexus, etc. If this car makes it here, it will have the 247hp vvt turbocharged engine, a 6 speed manual gearbox, lower suspension and a special sti-like interior. This product offering would supplant the Legacy GT sedan and wagon models and would be distinguished in styling by unique colors and trim. So, stay tuned and let me know if you would have any interest.'

So, needless to say, I told him I would be interested! Talk about a replacement for the wife's Forester! I talked to him in person as well and he said that the H6 engine was considered by SOA to be a failure. It has not sold nearly the numbers they expected and the next Forester may be only a turbo car as well."

the whole thread is here:

http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/Forum1/HTML/022643.html

-lucien

nygreg · May 2001

Lucien - A Legacy with 247 HP! Wow, that would be great and I think it would sell well and continue the "upgrading" of the Subaru image. As for the H6 being a failure, it is very unfortunate as I think it is not the engine that didn't sell well, but the package. i.e. you needed to purchase the Bean or VDC to get it. If it was decoupled from that and sold as an option, especially in the base OB and Legacy, it would sell.

-Greg

kate5000 · May 2001

As Greg said, if it is dropped into lower-priced models across the product line, it will sell. I'm sure many will buy Forester H6. I think Subaru should at least try this route before dropping H6.

nygreg · May 2001

since the H6 gets good gas mileage. Although, in the end I don't see how it could match the 4.

FrankMc · May 2001

we have one rumor this morning about all Outbacks going to the H6, and now the H6 is going away....

Let's keep our rumors consistant

Frank

FrankMc · May 2001

this weeks Motorweek on PBS is supposed to have a review of the WRX

Frank

bigfrank3 · May 2001

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/126/auto/AN_extraordinary_car_worth_rallying_aroundP.shtml

Regards,

other Frank

kate5000 · May 2001

Just FYI: Autoweek is asking owners of H6 OB to share their experience.

nygreg · May 2001

Never thought of myself as "folk out searching for antiques on Sundays, or a tweedy-country-minimalist. Maybe a soccer dad.

-Greg

barresa62 · May 2001

The Boston Globe review got it wrong about the brakes: "Couple the front discs with rear drums, as Subaru does in the WRX"... The WRX comes std w/4wheel disc brakes...no drums to be found. Other than that, I liked the article.

Stephen

nygreg · May 2001

I was losing my mind when I read that about the brakes. Thanks for giving me my sanity back Stephen.

-Greg

lark6 · May 2001

Yes, I have hauled antiques (and antique car parts) in my Forester and yes, I grew up in the country so maybe I fit that category.

As I've said before, if the Legacy GT had come with more than 165hp in MY'00, I might have popped for it over the Forester. I don't know if the EJ20T is going to be the right engine for the GT, but I agree that it's too soon to give up on the H6. Put the H6 in lower-priced Legacies, in the ST-X "New Brat," in the enlarged next generation Forester. Lower the MSRP on the VDC and Bean by $1-2K. Work on developing performance versions of the H6 - even if it means working with the aftermarket. I think then FHI can recoup its investment and then some.

Ed

barresa62 · May 2001

I know what ya mean...I had to go back and re-read it twice! :-)

Stephen

p0926 · May 2001

Frank, other Frank, Frank P. Hmmmm....

Hey Juice & Mike: I would like to formally petition to have "Frank" added to the list of approved Subaru owner's names. :-)

-Frank P.

kens · May 2001

Yet another turbo Legacy GT rumor! The EJ20 sounds a little small, but remember that Audi/VW uses their 1.8T as the base engine for quite a few trims. Perhaps a well-tuned dual stage turbo would do the trick.

The one thing that no one seems to have a definite answer for is why SOA won't use the H6 for the GT.

Ken

armac13 · May 2001

I think that would require a vote among the Mikes and Daves, but as a middle Dave I will cast an affirmative ballot.

Ross Dave

rsholland · May 2001

It sure would be a nice "surprise" if a hot Legacy shows up for '02especially with a 6-speed. In fact, it would be about the best kept secret of the year! I'm hoping for the best, but I really think something like that is more likely to occur in '03, than in '02.

Although, if Subaru did drop a bombshell like that this year, it would clearly be a 1-2 performance punch (WRX & Super-Legacy) for '02. That can't help but give Subaru a performance image here in North Americaovernight! Hmmm...

If the '03 Forester is indeed built on the Legacy/Outback platform, instead of the Impreza platform, I think that's a very smart move on Subaru's part. The biggest complaint about the current Forester, is that it is too small. If it's on the Legacy/Outback platform, you can expect a wheelbase of around 104," which is an inch longer than the current Rav4, the Escape/Tribute, and equal to the new Jeep Liberty. There shouldn't be any complaints about lack of space with that vehicle. Think of a current Outback that is taller, boxier, and with less front and rear overhangs.

Also, you can probably count on the multi-link rear suspension as being part of the package, which again, is more space-efficient than the current rear strut suspension. And... I can't help but wonder if the new Outback-based Forester and the new Outback-based pickup won't share a number of body parts, much like the F-150 and Expedition do.

I guess folks who like the current-sized Forester will be disappointed, but as a "business decision," (they'll sell more vehicles) I think it's a smart move for Subaru.

Bob

armac13 · May 2001

I tend to agree. In my situation the Forester is the perfect size. I rarely have rear passengers, etc. If the new Forester is in fact Legacy based it would be too large for my consideration. Having said that, a larger new model should do much better in the crowded segment of the market. I guess I would have to look more toward the OBS if my Forester required replacement.

Ross

lucien2 · May 2001

I don't think the 2 rumors are incongruous. Nowhere in the rumor I posted did it say the H6 was going away, just that it was, at this point, a failure. A sure way to turn that failure around is to decouple it from the big expensive packages.

FWIW, the salesman I spoke with at russel loves the OB H6-- he uses it to sell lots of H4 cars!! People drive them back to back, look at the price of a VDC or Bean, and buy the Limited!

locke2c · May 2001

It just seems to me that the H6 isn't as potent as it should be. For one thing, even though it does have 2 more cylinders it's only .5L more displacement.

But even still, it does have a high compression ratio (10.7:1) and has as long of a stroke as the EJ25 (the bore is much smaller).

Like I said, it should have more punch. The EJ25 seems pretty potent for 165hp/166lb-ft while the EZ30 (to me) seemed unresponsive for 212HP/210lb-ft.

-Colin

armac13 · May 2001

the H6 is actually the more potent engine. It's displacement is 20% greater than the H4, it's horsepower is 28.5% greater. I think that the gearing and the coupling with the automatic are responsible for that impression.

Ross

paisan · May 2001

I dunno, I haven't driven the EZ30, but I can speak of my XT6. It's roughly the same weight as an Impreza, and has .2l more displacement, and 20 less hp, 10 less lbs of torque, but it feels much peppier with the auto than an RS. I guess I'll need to go test the new H6 and see how it runs.

-mike

bigfrank3 · May 2001

Frankly speaking, ahh, make that frankly typing, I agree!

Regards,
Frank

rsholland · May 2001

When L Bean/VDC were introduced, many of the comments on these boards voiced skepticism as to how the H-6 was being marketed. Too expensive. Too little low-end power. Needs extra gearsboth manual and automatic, etc. It looks like the rest of the world agrees...

Bob

locke2c · May 2001

Ross, thanks for the number crunching but I wasn't talking about specific output-- I was talking about seat of the pants. The 2.5L's power feels underrated, while the 3.0L's power feels overstated.

Good point about the automatic though, I don't make it a habit to test drive automatic 2.5L models.

-Colin

sibbald · May 2001

I may have misled you by using the word "personalized" licence plate. The arrangement the Ham operators had with M.V.B. preceded personalized licence plates. It was before the time of cell phones and it was felt that they were an assistance on the road. The licence plate is their call sign, for the home and car radios. They are now few and far between.

Cheers, Tom

Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II

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