Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

steine13 · June 2020

Wow, you guys are a rough crowd. The twin-turbo V6 of around that time is a grenade with the pin out, but afaik the 4.2 is stout. Maintenance is another issue, but I'm not aware of preordained failures.

qbrozen · June 2020

steine13 said:
Wow, you guys are a rough crowd. The twin-turbo V6 of around that time is a grenade with the pin out, but afaik the 4.2 is stout. Maintenance is another issue, but I'm not aware of preordained failures.

Except for those plastic timing chain guides, which is the “engine out” procedure I am referring to. It isn’t recommended maintenance, it is a major failure point.

stickguy · June 2020

I assume that this is a car where you pick a certain point (unless something like that chain guide fails, and makes the decision for you) and commit the time and $ to just yank the engine, and do everything possible while it it out and accessible.

Sounds like a good project for JRGO! Who yesterday posted his latest project, a very broken 2007 M6 V10 SMG. Would could possibly go wrong there?

steine13 · June 2020

Oh, that...I'm getting old; didn't realize that the guide problem goes back 16+ years.

The kicker is how they turned the engine around because the chain doesn't have to be serviced. Truth. The chain will be fine...

andres3 · June 2020

steine13 said:
Oh, that...I'm getting old; didn't realize that the guide problem goes back 16+ years.

The kicker is how they turned the engine around because the chain doesn't have to be serviced. Truth. The chain will be fine...

Up to about 100,000 miles that was true.

isellhondas · June 2020

xwesx said:

andres3 said:
https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3gOJ5OWb/2004-audi-s4-avant

All us wagon lovers missed out.
I see an Audi of that era, and I just cringe. I mean, it looks good, but actually owning one? I am not brave enough.

Any Audi makes me cringe!

fintail · June 2020

Took the fintail out for a spin today, as I wanted to replace the (incorrect) rear shelf vinyl covering, as it is about 20 years old and not looking too hot. What a gongshow. The vinyl coats a piece of dense particle board, which of course broke into about 20 pieces when I removed it. I am glad I asked the cocomats people to custom-cut a piece for that area, as it's going to be a chore getting that back together - I might get a piece of thin cardboard and glue it for reinforcement, then put the mat over it.

Car ran fine anyway, got a compliment and some looks, only had to honk at one non-signaling gormless twit posing as a motorist.

stickguy · June 2020

This is why I don’t dive too deep into the car repair pool.

qbrozen · June 2020

stickguy said:
This is why I don’t dive too deep into the car repair pool.

This was the easiest list of fixes I think I have ever witnessed.

stickguy · June 2020

Well, the water pump is fairly invasive. And the strut. But the rest was pretty simple.

stickguy · June 2020

Oh, and I love the car

qbrozen · June 2020

stickguy said:
Well, the water pump is fairly invasive. And the strut. But the rest was pretty simple.

As far as I'm concerned, any car where you can replace the water pump without changing the timing belt is easy. ;b

fintail · June 2020

Made an appointment for the fintail's annual service, next week. Going to have the turn signals fixed, maybe a set of shocks (the ones on the car were installed 20 years ago and they weren't new then, I notice a little clunking sometimes), and a general roadworthiness check. I set a budget of 1K - anything below that, proceed - anything more, let me know first. I think most things are OK, but I'd like to take it on the road sometime and not be completely worried.

Also ordered the set of Coco mats. I am glad I had them send me templates before I ordered - I needed some modifications. The car has rubber floors in front, which I fear won't age perfectly forever - the driver's side has a couple cracks not there 25 years ago. They'll look good, and I am getting a console mat for free.

isellhondas · June 2020

It sounds like you have a good Indy Shop that you trust. A lot of places refuse to work on older cars.

fintail · June 2020

Yep, there's a good shop who isn't afraid of the car - I suspect these days, any pre-OBD car is going to be met with resistance. The fintail is generally easy to work with, which might help - it doesn't have any big running/driveability issues, usually starts without hesitation, just has some little quirks. I've been patronizing this shop/mechanic since I moved here. When I stopped by yesterday, there was a Pagoda SL and a W108/109 sitting on the lot, so he might have a couple people who aren't put off by an old car. I suspect a couple other local shops also might not balk at it, but this one being relatively close is pretty nice.

isellhondas said:
It sounds like you have a good Indy Shop that you trust. A lot of places refuse to work on older cars.

tjc78 · June 2020

isellhondas said:
It sounds like you have a good Indy Shop that you trust. A lot of places refuse to work on older cars.

It’s funny. You would think working something older is a joy. Better access to most things under the hood and less electronics. Most electrical stuff can be diagnosed with a Simpson meter.

stickguy · June 2020

Watching Hoovie work on his 760 wagon proves that. So much access, simple design, not complicated electronics.

sda · June 2020

I still have a strobe timing light, dwell, voltage, tach, multi purpose meter, points and spark plug feeler gauges among other tools not readily used today.

stickguy · June 2020

I do have a spark plug wrench and feeler gauge in my toolbox. I think the last car I changed them on was my 1992 Legacy maybe. and I know I won't be changing them again, unless I someday buy an older toy with simple stuff like an engine you can actually see, and normal spark plug wires! I don't like messing with coil packs.

qbrozen · June 2020

I have a fairly extensive and eclectic tool collection. A few antiques in there. Also some very old service books.

kyfdx · July 2020

I own multiple screwdrivers, and a socket set that has lost a number of sizes.

stickguy · July 2020

I watch way too many Youtube videos and Speed TV shows of guys messing around with crappy cars. Probably learned just enough from JR, etc. to really get in over my head! But if you are careful, and study up, should be able to handle a lot of work.

the issue usually becomes, not having the tools and equipment. If I had a lift of some sort, a good set of mechanics hand tools, an air compressor and impact tools, a fancy (and expensive) scan tool, all those odd ball tools that make jobs so much easier, a workshop with presses and welding equipment, and a couple of people that know what they are doing always hanging around with nothing to do, I would be a lot more likely to work on my own cars!

Though right now since they are both new and under warranty, nothing to work on anyway.

tjc78 · July 2020

When I did a little of my own wrenching usually tools was my stumbling point. Luckily my neighbor at the time had everything and could fix anything.

So what would happen is, I’d ask him to borrow a tool and end up getting a helper too.

xwesx · July 2020

After this weekend, I have a few more tools than I did previously. :/

sda · July 2020

xwesx said:
After this weekend, I have a few more tools than I did previously. :/

Do tell...

fintail · July 2020

My friend with the W123 300CD insisted I drive it today, so I took it for a ~15 mile drive on the highway. Maybe due to the plodding speed of local drivers, it had no problems keeping up with 405 traffic, passing several people. The car is pristine and is a nice silver blue color, so it turned some heads, and even got a thumbs up. It was quite pleasant in the relatively warm weather with the windows down and the hardtop showing off its pretty lines, but also has at least a slightly vintage feel now - the 80s are longer and longer ago.

Fintail is now at the shop for yearly service and some maintenance. I suspect I might not come in under my 1K budget this time.

stickguy · July 2020

that is how I know I am old. The new cars I looked at (or owned) when I was right out of college and newly married, are now basically antiques (and can have vintage tags).

fintail · July 2020

Yeah, my friend's car has year of manufacture (1984) plates.

Years ago I got to the point where I saw cars I recall being new in the junkyard, now I see cars I remember as new when I felt I was getting older in the junkyard, and cars from my high school/college days being 6 figure BaT material.

xwesx · July 2020

sda said:

xwesx said:
After this weekend, I have a few more tools than I did previously. :/
Do tell...

Oh, well, it was Auto Maintenance Weekend (known in some places as the US Independence holiday), so I was, naturally, doing auto maintenance! This year, my primary work (beyond the normal oil/fluid changes, wipers, bulbs, etc.) was to replace the struts on my Q7. In addition, I needed to replace an upper control arm and an axle boot on the front driver side... both of which were side effects of having replaced (last fall) the wheel bearing on that corner.

Because the damage to the upper control arm was due to the somewhat unique design of the ball joint on that unit and my using a standard separator, one of the tools was a ball joint separator that is a press-type (like this).

The other tool is crimping pliers for the CV boot band. I also ordered a couple more sockets to better deal with the seemingly endless ways manufacturers come up with to torture us when trying to replace struts. I managed to muddle my way through with a combination of using tools in ways they were never meant to be used, brute force, and dumb luck (i.e., my usual method!). However, I hope that next time I go to replace struts, I will have all of the probable options covered!

xwesx · July 2020

Funny enough, the reason I replaced the upper control arm is due to having damaged the end of the ball joint's threads so badly that I had to use my grinder to cut off a small section on the end of the bolt, then reshape the threads to accept the nut. In doing so, I ground off enough of the end that I could no longer use the Torx holder in the end of the bolt, so the ball joint tended to turn in the socket when I tried to tighten the nut.

Now, when I used the separator to disassemble the passenger side (for the strut replacement), the joint required so much pressure to finally knock it loose (banging the joint with a hammer while under pressure did not help it to let go) that the end of the bolt was actually crushing under the pressure. As such, I had to go through the same ritual with the grinder as I did last time. Happily, I was able to remove a small enough piece and spent extra time shaping what was left that I was able to get the nut on smoothly as well as being able to use the Torx holder. So, I'm *not* replacing that control arm!

Then, with the CV boot, I figured the most difficult piece would be separating the joint and putting it back together.... No! That was the easy part. The hart part turned out to be getting the final clamping band in place! The small one worked fine - crimped down, no issues. The larger one was just a little too small to fit into place, regardless of what I tried. I messed with it for about an hour-and-a-half before I finally quit in disgust. It just wasn't worth the effort! Instead, I went to NAPA, showed them my band and explained my predicament, and they had a different band for me in about a minute's time. I went home, slapped it on, crimped it down.... done! However, this was not the fault of the tool; that part worked really well.

For the struts, the factory Sachs units had this sort of oval-racetrack-looking shape (like this) on the ends to the strut rods (as opposed to the vastly more common hex end fitting I'm used to seeing) I didn't have anything to hold those so I started with taking my impact driver to the nut to do an initial loosening, then put my through-socket ratchet on the nut and reached through with some needle-nose pliers to hold the oval end. On two, this was no big problem, but the other two were much more stubborn to turn, so the pliers couldn't handle the twisting without flexing. I added some vice grips to the head of the needle-nose to reinforce them, and the combination seemed to do the trick... if not a little awkwardly!

With blessed relief, the replacement Bilstein units had the hex ends on them, so they went back together free of fanfare! All in all, a massive amount of work on these compared to replacing struts on my Subarus or anything else I've ever owned. Just as easy once the assembly was out of the car, but taking them out and putting them back in was... challenging.

stickguy · July 2020

That’s why “the guy” has a lift and all the fancy tools.

sda · July 2020

xwesx said:
Funny enough, the reason I replaced the upper control arm is due to having damaged the end of the ball joint's threads so badly that I had to use my grinder to cut off a small section on the end of the bolt, then reshape the threads to accept the nut. In doing so, I ground off enough of the end that I could no longer use the Torx holder in the end of the bolt, so the ball joint tended to turn in the socket when I tried to tighten the nut.

Now, when I used the separator to disassemble the passenger side (for the strut replacement), the joint required so much pressure to finally knock it loose (banging the joint with a hammer while under pressure did not help it to let go) that the end of the bolt was actually crushing under the pressure. As such, I had to go through the same ritual with the grinder as I did last time. Happily, I was able to remove a small enough piece and spent extra time shaping what was left that I was able to get the nut on smoothly as well as being able to use the Torx holder. So, I'm *not* replacing that control arm!

Then, with the CV boot, I figured the most difficult piece would be separating the joint and putting it back together.... No! That was the easy part. The hart part turned out to be getting the final clamping band in place! The small one worked fine - crimped down, no issues. The larger one was just a little too small to fit into place, regardless of what I tried. I messed with it for about an hour-and-a-half before I finally quit in disgust. It just wasn't worth the effort! Instead, I went to NAPA, showed them my band and explained my predicament, and they had a different band for me in about a minute's time. I went home, slapped it on, crimped it down.... done! However, this was not the fault of the tool; that part worked really well.

For the struts, the factory Sachs units had this sort of oval-racetrack-looking shape (like this) on the ends to the strut rods (as opposed to the vastly more common hex end fitting I'm used to seeing) I didn't have anything to hold those so I started with taking my impact driver to the nut to do an initial loosening, then put my through-socket ratchet on the nut and reached through with some needle-nose pliers to hold the oval end. On two, this was no big problem, but the other two were much more stubborn to turn, so the pliers couldn't handle the twisting without flexing. I added some vice grips to the head of the needle-nose to reinforce them, and the combination seemed to do the trick... if not a little awkwardly!

With blessed relief, the replacement Bilstein units had the hex ends on them, so they went back together free of fanfare! All in all, a massive amount of work on these compared to replacing struts on my Subarus or anything else I've ever owned. Just as easy once the assembly was out of the car, but taking them out and putting them back in was... challenging.

Wow, I admire your determination and resourcefulness. Job well done.

Michaell · July 2020

sda said:

xwesx said:
Funny enough, the reason I replaced the upper control arm is due to having damaged the end of the ball joint's threads so badly that I had to use my grinder to cut off a small section on the end of the bolt, then reshape the threads to accept the nut. In doing so, I ground off enough of the end that I could no longer use the Torx holder in the end of the bolt, so the ball joint tended to turn in the socket when I tried to tighten the nut.

Now, when I used the separator to disassemble the passenger side (for the strut replacement), the joint required so much pressure to finally knock it loose (banging the joint with a hammer while under pressure did not help it to let go) that the end of the bolt was actually crushing under the pressure. As such, I had to go through the same ritual with the grinder as I did last time. Happily, I was able to remove a small enough piece and spent extra time shaping what was left that I was able to get the nut on smoothly as well as being able to use the Torx holder. So, I'm *not* replacing that control arm!

Then, with the CV boot, I figured the most difficult piece would be separating the joint and putting it back together.... No! That was the easy part. The hart part turned out to be getting the final clamping band in place! The small one worked fine - crimped down, no issues. The larger one was just a little too small to fit into place, regardless of what I tried. I messed with it for about an hour-and-a-half before I finally quit in disgust. It just wasn't worth the effort! Instead, I went to NAPA, showed them my band and explained my predicament, and they had a different band for me in about a minute's time. I went home, slapped it on, crimped it down.... done! However, this was not the fault of the tool; that part worked really well.

For the struts, the factory Sachs units had this sort of oval-racetrack-looking shape (like this) on the ends to the strut rods (as opposed to the vastly more common hex end fitting I'm used to seeing) I didn't have anything to hold those so I started with taking my impact driver to the nut to do an initial loosening, then put my through-socket ratchet on the nut and reached through with some needle-nose pliers to hold the oval end. On two, this was no big problem, but the other two were much more stubborn to turn, so the pliers couldn't handle the twisting without flexing. I added some vice grips to the head of the needle-nose to reinforce them, and the combination seemed to do the trick... if not a little awkwardly!

With blessed relief, the replacement Bilstein units had the hex ends on them, so they went back together free of fanfare! All in all, a massive amount of work on these compared to replacing struts on my Subarus or anything else I've ever owned. Just as easy once the assembly was out of the car, but taking them out and putting them back in was... challenging.
Wow, I admire your determination and resourcefulness. Job well done.

It's also important to remember that he can work around the clock… Because, Alaska and summer.

xwesx · July 2020

Michaell said:

It's also important to remember that he can work around the clock… Because, Alaska and summer.

HAH! Not far from the truth. I was out there until after 10pm both days I was working on the Q7 project (yes, I burned two days on that one car!)... all natural light. We had a heavy downpour on Saturday afternoon, so that sent me to cover for about three hours. I'm starting to think a concrete pad in the driveway... or maybe even a garage... would be a nice feature to have.

Michaell · July 2020

xwesx said:

Michaell said:

It's also important to remember that he can work around the clock… Because, Alaska and summer.
HAH! Not far from the truth. I was out there until after 10pm both days I was working on the Q7 project (yes, I burned two days on that one car!)... all natural light. We had a heavy downpour on Saturday afternoon, so that sent me to cover for about three hours. I'm starting to think a concrete pad in the driveway... or maybe even a garage... would be a nice feature to have.

My one and only trip to AK was for business in May (many years ago); it was disconcerting to be eating dinner at 10PM with the sun just beginning to set.

fintail · July 2020

Related to my "project car", look what made the top 10 "gems" list, judged by M-B itself - at some points in the past, this was not the prevailing opinion.

Michaell · July 2020

fintail said:
Related to my "project car", look what made the top 10 "gems" list, judged by M-B itself - at some points in the past, this was not the prevailing opinion.

The lady who owns our favorite Chinese restaurant drives a black on black R129.

fintail · July 2020

129s can be a bit of a bargain in terms of style and quality for the money - as survival rate must be close to 100% as possible, and running costs won't be cheap, but IMO they still look good.

Michaell said:

The lady who owns our favorite Chinese restaurant drives a black on black R129.

qbrozen · July 2020

for some reason, i can't bring myself to memorize the factory code of my benz.

ab348 · July 2020

Too bad they forgot to post the picture of the last choice.

fintail · July 2020

You had a 190E, right? W201.

Pic of the last car on the list (which has become a landmark design IMO) loaded for me, the first gen CLS:

qbrozen said:
for some reason, i can't bring myself to memorize the factory code of my benz.

qbrozen · July 2020

fintail said:
You had a 190E, right? W201.

Pic of the last car on the list (which has become a landmark design IMO) loaded for me, the first gen CLS:

qbrozen said:
for some reason, i can't bring myself to memorize the factory code of my benz.

Currently have the ML63. Previously had a '91 190E, '92 190E, and '86 300E

fintail · July 2020

Your ML (how is it treating you?) is W164. All 190 cars are W201, and that E is W124.

The platform designations have become more sequential, often directly, since 2000 or so. No more hopping around, like how W128/180 was replaced by W111/112 (fintails) who were replaced by W108/109, then W116, then W126, then W140. For example, E-class this century has been W210, W211, W212, W213, S-class W220, W221, W222, (soon to be) W223.

qbrozen said:

Currently have the ML63. Previously had a '91 190E, '92 190E, and '86 300E

qbrozen · July 2020

The ML is pretty nice. I have had zero time to mess with it. Gotta see why the CEL and TPMS lights are on.

xwesx · July 2020

qbrozen said:
The ML is pretty nice. I have had zero time to mess with it. Gotta see why the CEL and TPMS lights are on.

What type of TPMS system is it? If the in-wheel sensor, my Subarus seem like the wheel sensors consistently stop working at about nine years of age.

andres3 · July 2020

Looks like new cars need a "deactivate new tech due to lack of durability or longevity" button so you don't end up driving around with a Christmas tree of lights on the dash.

fintail · July 2020

Had to run an errand this morning, was in the area, so stopped by to visit the project car to see if there were any issues. It is the least aggravating project car in this lineup, no doubt:

Lucky spot 13. The issues were minor - small fuel leak at the fuel pump, mechanic says it is easy. A bolt was troublesome in replacing a rear shock, but they dealt with it without needing to drill. ETA, end of next week.

omarman · July 2020

1988 Chevy Suburban Silverado . Only 71,849 miles!
But it looks like a 171,849 mile truck with a 5 digit odometer.

1995 ford bronco eddie bauer - $19000
Looks clean for a +126k mile truck. I checked power ratings for a 1995 351 Bronco which is rated at only 210 hp but torque was 325 ft-lb. EPA 13 / 17 (14) mpg but hey, it's a Bronco!

1978 F150 4x4 rust free
100% rust free original paint

1977 CHEVROLET C-10 31K MILES
Interesting red Pontiac convertible in the background pics. Can't find the red convertible at the website for Meridian Motors and the phone number is for "jingletruck" which doesn't show anything but miled up utility/service trucks.

omarman · July 2020

Maybe a 1990ish XJS convertible has a longer list? No lucky number around that one.

fintail · July 2020

Jag is the XJ-SC, a relatively short run targa style. I didn't check on the engine, but if it is a V12, good luck!

If that squarebody was mint original paint, it wouldn't be out of line these days.

Speaking of 90s Ford SUVs, This impresses me - haven't seen a first gen so nice probably since that decade.

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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