A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

guitarzan · January 2020

qbrozen said:
NJ cost of living is astronomical. Minimum wage is $10. No wonder dealers can’t get techs. Gee, should I stand at a cash register in air conditioning for $10 or bust my hump in dirt, grease, and sweat for $1 more?

In the fast food business for example, they mentor on everything they do, up to managing the P&L of a unit restaurant and beyond. One would have a clear career path with zero personal investment required. One would be able to go anywhere in the country/continent/world? to manage one of their locations. With a high turnover rate, someone sticking with it has significant opportunity ahead of them. Compare that to the car tech scenario, including collecting a fortune in tools and dealerships that do not necessarily have one's best interests in mind.

A seriously tough call.

thecardoc3 · January 2020

Right to Repair issues are arrising again. https://www.ratchetandwrench.com/articles/9403-mass-right-to-repair-faces-chamber-of-commerce?utm_medium=email&utm_source=utm_code&utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=8134

guitarzan · January 2020

Proactively hiding diagnostic information for the expressed purpose of holding all repairs captive is sleazy.

thecardoc3 · January 2020

It's a little long but worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRigh163U5U&fbclid=IwAR2Nk4welVPRewI0NjcDbFAPxQQMPs-zK7vtTYjN8OHF7wL2LTDjwKaieYE

guitarzan · January 2020

What causes the bad injectors? They are junk on this vehicle? The vehicle sat and the injectors are clogged from tank rust? Something the owner did like cross the connections?

thecardoc3 · January 2020

Deposits can form inside the injector restricting flow, you can also get wear that causes them to not close as fast as they should allowing too much fuel to flow.

The most likely sequence of events was the system was aging and while driveability issues were there they werent bad enough "yet" for the owner to do anything about it. Then once something happened that was so bad that the owner had to try and fix it, he added problems to the car with his attempts to repair it.

thecardoc3 · February 2020

One of the younger technicians who does a lot of YouTube videos was trying out my routine for diagnosing a brake issue. Here is the result. It's young men and women like him that consumers need servicing their vehicles now and in the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-ayW7kIF8k&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3iDJQJkNStnieQBOcHAZ2ihpI_0UE-CMUY-1ovz1LVbClzX3h-cJMdbBU

thecardoc3 · March 2020

Make sure that you read the comments at the end. https://www.equipmentworld.com/diesel-tech-shortage-part-1-call-it-the-perfect-storm-one-thats-been-gathering-for-decades/?fbclid=IwAR2CRSo_atuFZGAylTOVz1C-PNWm1sYlwyjpjqSCc1BR2TvUorWlUKlt5OA

benjaminh · March 2020

My Honda service advisor yesterday suggested a differential fluid change on our 18-month old AWD CR-V that has only 15k miles. I said I'd do it next time, and she said that was fine. Cost for this service is $130. Trying to look it up, I saw recommendations all over the map for changing differential fluid, from 25k miles to 90k. Anyone have thoughts on this?

Michaell · March 2020

benjaminh said:
My Honda service advisor yesterday suggested a differential fluid change on our 18-month old AWD CR-V that has only 15k miles. I said I'd do it next time, and she said that was fine. Cost for this service is $130. Trying to look it up, I saw recommendations all over the map for changing differential fluid, from 25k miles to 90k. Anyone have thoughts on this?

I had it done it our Outback at about the same time (15k miles) on the advice of those here.

roadburner · March 2020

I do it every 30k on most of my cars. That said, I never touched the diffs on my 2004 X3 and the friend I sold it to has 210k on it with no final drive issues.
I'm more proactive with transmission and transfer case services.

thecardoc3 · March 2020

benjaminh said:
My Honda service advisor yesterday suggested a differential fluid change on our 18-month old AWD CR-V that has only 15k miles. Anyone have thoughts on this?

The traction control system in the rear differential of your CRV is known to have some issues with the clutches in the assembly that can cause a chatter if the fluid gets bad. Considering that over the first year or two normal wear of the clutches which amounts to polishing them puts some debris into the fluid, servicing it on the early side has the benefit of removing that from the differential fluid. It should tolerate that material but a lot can be said for getting it out of there if you have the means to do so which is why you see advice all across the board. If it was mine I would change it, but then again I keep cars a little bit longer than average.

benjaminh · March 2020

A 1.5 minute video about a product that says it will clean the carbon deposits from the valves in GDI engines for low cost. Any thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aosVjpcBzZo

thecardoc3 · March 2020

Treatments like this will work on soft deposits, they will not remove hard crystallized carbon deposits. So if done regularly they can be helpful. However, before use you should consult vehicle's owners manual. Some manufacturers do not approve of use of cleaners like this. There usually cite potential turbocharger issues as reasons against useage.

benjaminh · March 2020

This treatment seems to work well for carbon build up on valves for engines with direct injection....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFvXbTIiAVY

thecardoc3 · March 2020

I use a radiator hose with a hole for the blaster nozzle as my vacuum cleaner adapter. It would get expensive if I was to buy the exact tool for each engine design.

roadburner · March 2020

Walnut shell blasting has been utilized for decades to clean deposits on intake valves. As a matter of fact, BMW used the process extensively in the mid '80s as part of a massive engine service campaign when the substandard U.S. fuels available at the time caused chronic intake valve deposits. That led to BMW developing an intake valve deposit test(ASTM D5500) as a result. After a car had been serviced BMW required owners to use fuels that passed the BMW test or else run a detergent additive with every tank.

guitarzan · March 2020

I received a text from the mechanic telling me that they are open for business. I am grateful for them and glad that their business is deemed "essential" and that they are not shuttered via government mandate. From their side they have to deal with filthy, disease-ridden customers and would be at risk of getting this coronavirus.

thecardoc3 · March 2020

We have discussed this on numerous forums for what the techs need to do in order to try and protect themselves. They have to wipe down steering wheels, keys, door handles, controls virtually anything that they need to touch that is usually handled by the driver.

They also have to leave a car sit, or open it to allow air to flow through in order to remove any airborn content. The useage of hand sanitizers is a must, they also need to avoid riding in the car with other people. Lot's of techs use nitrile gloves today so practices like washing their hands the moment the gloves are taken off is important and of course not touching their faces similar to what the medical community must do.

Along these same lines, until the economy get's back up to speed techs that can effectively service and repair today's cars are going to be more important than ever. There will likely be more people faced with having to keep their car's longer so repairs are going to be more common.

guitarzan · May 2020

Doc, how is the volume of repair business in your region/nationally? It should be good because business is open. However, when people fear the economy, even if they personally are working, they tend to stop all work except for emergencies.

thecardoc3 · May 2020

It's struggling. Auto repair is generally something that isn't budgeted for so it's usually done only out of necessity. Now with many people having less income and needing fewer repairs because they are driving fewer miles it is having an impact. There are a lot of shops that have even shut down completely. One of the largest independents near me shut the whole thing down because he decided it wasn't worth the risk for him to catch the virus. So he gave his guys a couple months pay told them to sign up for unemployment and closed the doors.

isellhondas · May 2020

I recently started noticing an oil spot on out garage floor under the right front side of our ES 350. I made an appointment with my favorite Indy Shop. This is a place I have used for over 25 years and sent countless people to. I found out that the guy who ran the shop was no longer with them. Ownership is the same. I gaot a call telling me that I had a leaking power steering pump. I figured they would put a reseal kit in it but, nope! They insisted that it had to have a new pump. Quote was 1000.00! I told them I would think about it and perhaps do the job myself. I was shocked! I called around to three other quality shops and I was quoted 400-450 to do the same job. I really think that they were trying to make up for lost business from the CORVID 19 problem?

In any event, they have no idea how much repeat and referall business they have lost. No, I wont bad them nor will I change my long standing five star Yelp review but they have seen the last of me and my referalls.

benjaminh · May 2020

=

isellhondas said:
I recently started noticing an oil spot on out garage floor under the right front side of our ES 350....

Have you considered getting a new car to replace your 12-year old Lexus? There are good deals on the last of the 2020 Acura TLXs, with 7k in lease incentives last I checked.

roadburner · May 2020

isellhondas said:
I recently started noticing an oil spot on out garage floor under the right front side of our ES 350. I made an appointment with my favorite Indy Shop. This is a place I have used for over 25 years and sent countless people to. I found out that the guy who ran the shop was no longer with them. Ownership is the same. I gaot a call telling me that I had a leaking power steering pump. I figured they would put a reseal kit in it but, nope! They insisted that it had to have a new pump. Quote was 1000.00! I told them I would think about it and perhaps do the job myself. I was shocked! I called around to three other quality shops and I was quoted 400-450 to do the same job. I really think that they were trying to make up for lost business from the CORVID 19 problem?

In any event, they have no idea how much repeat and referall business they have lost. No, I wont bad them nor will I change my long standing five star Yelp review but they have seen the last of me and my referalls.

The same thing happened to my assistant prosecutor. He took his Cayman to an import shop that had a great reputation in the Porsche community. Unfortunately the shop had changed hands. They kept the car for three weeks and twice assured him that the problem had been fixed- only for it to return a third time. He ended up taking it to the Porsche dealer where the problem was fixed once and for all. Needless to say, I won't be recommending that shop ever again.

thecardoc3 · June 2020

isellhondas said:
I found out that the guy who ran the shop was no longer with them. Ownership is the same. I gaot a call telling me that I had a leaking power steering pump. I figured they would put a reseal kit in it but, nope! They insisted that it had to have a new pump. Quote was 1000.00!

That's definitely on the high side. The O.E. pump shows for approximately $377. Quality aftermarket remans "cost to the shop" are in the $150-$200 range. I did find a new aftermarket pump, it listed for $392, don't know what or if the wholesale price would be. I do have to wonder if they were figuring on doing just the pump or if they might have been including hoses, or a flush of the system? Not doing the hoses on a 12 yr/old car with a power steering repair is just begging to have a customer have to come back with the system leaking again.

As far as doing a seal kit goes it's unlikely they have anyone experienced at a rebuilding a pump, plus that puts more liability on the shop.

isellhondas said:

I told them I would think about it and perhaps do the job myself. I was shocked! I called around to three other quality shops and I was quoted 400-450 to do the same job. I really think that they were trying to make up for lost business from the CORVID 19 problem?

As noted above $400-$450 sounds too low. I'm not saying that it can't be done for that, but with the cost of a quality part and the 1.6 hours of labor plus fluid I don't see how they can. If they are quoting a cheaper reman then the number works but cheap parts are risky.

thecardoc3 · June 2020

So did you hear the story about the C8 Corvette? https://motorillustrated.com/c8-corvette-dropped-from-lift-at-florida-dealership-owner-not-too-happy/48484/

I left a response there. Of course there are a lot of " the techs are idiots" statements and pretty much all from people who don't know the first thing about working in a shop. I could just imagine a technician that did stop and read everything available about a given car before he/she touches it in a bay. They wouldn't actually get any work done because of the time they spent reading and would be out of a job in a day. Everyone just "assumes" that everybody knows everything there is to know which would mean they would even have to know when an unforeseen trap is set for them. That's what this event comes down to "a trap" and yes the technician fell for it. Now the word is out and everyone will know about it and be more cautious right? No of course not, "everyone" isn't going to hear about this and this same trap will be sprung again on another unsuspecting technician.

Here is what I left there.

A service technician’s job today is one of the most challenging careers that anyone can strive to master. It takes fifteen to twenty years to really get enough experience to be good at it and yet there will always be something that you have never seen before even when you have been at for more than forty years. The need to study and learn new routines and systems never ends for automobile service technicians. No doubt the tech made a mistake, it’s pretty easy to sit back and judge that from the aftermath but I wonder how many people would make the same judgmental error if given the chance before they saw this end result. Earlier (other) Corvettes use the points that are marked “don’t lift here” in the instruction photo above for the C8 and I could see some complacency come into play after someone has used the regular points numerous times on Corvettes. Personally I don’t like the lift points on the regular ones because just eyeing it up the arms are too close to the balance point in my opinion on them. But they work in spite of my concerns and techs just have to get used to using them. So you have a situation that causes a heightened concern, but through regular use that concern is diminished. Now along comes a Corvette that is different from the rest but apparently from the instruction photo that I saw still has those regular Corvette lift points visible. I can well imagine a technician falling for the trap that has been set at that point. Why would someone go look up something that they have used before and learned to trust? The trap is those holes were you insert the lift cushions so that the hoist doesn’t touch the vehicle, if the tech can see them and has used them numerous times, why would this time be different?

qbrozen · June 2020

before I read your response, doc, I thought the same thing looking at the instruction pic. Why the hell are those spots there? I suppose for changing just lifting 1 corner? But does that car even have a spare and jack? If not, then those individual jack points would have zero use and should not be there.

roadburner · June 2020

I'd be more inclined to blame Chevrolet for not ensuring that their dealers were well aware of the difference in the jacking points. Of course GM tends to use their customers as beta testers, so maybe they are extending that process to their dealer network.

thecardoc3 · June 2020

roadburner said:
I'd be more inclined to blame Chevrolet for not ensuring that their dealers were well aware of the difference in the jacking points.

Exactly.

isellhondas · June 2020

thecardoc3 said:

isellhondas said:
I found out that the guy who ran the shop was no longer with them. Ownership is the same. I gaot a call telling me that I had a leaking power steering pump. I figured they would put a reseal kit in it but, nope! They insisted that it had to have a new pump. Quote was 1000.00!
That's definitely on the high side. The O.E. pump shows for approximately $377. Quality aftermarket remans "cost to the shop" are in the $150-$200 range. I did find a new aftermarket pump, it listed for $392, don't know what or if the wholesale price would be. I do have to wonder if they were figuring on doing just the pump or if they might have been including hoses, or a flush of the system? Not doing the hoses on a 12 yr/old car with a power steering repair is just begging to have a customer have to come back with the system leaking again.

As far as doing a seal kit goes it's unlikely they have anyone experienced at a rebuilding a pump, plus that puts more liability on the shop.
isellhondas said:

I told them I would think about it and perhaps do the job myself. I was shocked! I called around to three other quality shops and I was quoted 400-450 to do the same job. I really think that they were trying to make up for lost business from the CORVID 19 problem?
As noted above $400-$450 sounds too low. I'm not saying that it can't be done for that, but with the cost of a quality part and the 1.6 hours of labor plus fluid I don't see how they can. If they are quoting a cheaper reman then the number works but cheap parts are risky.

I appreciate the information. I figured if a quality pump is 400.00 and an hour and a half of labor is 200.00 than 600.00 should have been tops. They wanted to change the fluid but said nothing about the hoses. Funny thing, when I checked the fluid level it was about a quarter inch below the fill line. I topped it off which took about two tablespoons of fluid. It has BARELY leaked since and it's still up to the full mark. I guess the days of repairing or rebuilding a component are over. In the "old days" a good shop would have never installed a rebuilt anything on a car! They would take off the old unit, take it to their work bench and carefully overhaul it using skill and quality parts. I know, I'm a dinosaur.

andres3 · June 2020

The ultimate indy Audi shop in San Diego recently had a customer come in complaining about a whining noise from the front end of their old Audi.

Shop told them they had 2 problems:

1) Power Steering
2) AC Compressor

Customer elects to do the cheaper PS repair.

Then proceeds to complain on social media the whining noise isn't gone after the work is done.

Sounds like a customer that needs to be fired. How can you blame the shop and be upset when you didn't believe their advice and accept their recommendations?

isellhondas · June 2020

That is the shop's fault. There was probably nothing wrong with the power steering. I suspect that they guessed that the sound was coming from both units. Assuming both units were making noise they should have either declined the job or VERY clearly written on the work order...CUSTOMER WAS ADVISED TO REPLACE BOTH THE POWER STEERING PUMP AND THE A/C COMPRESSOR. Customer DECLINED the A/C compressor replacement. Now, the guy still could have complained on Social Media but if the shop had otherwise great reviews he probably would have been dismissed.

And, I agree. Should that customer return I would send him/her elsewhere.

andres3 · June 2020

isellhondas said:
That is the shop's fault. There was probably nothing wrong with the power steering. I suspect that they guessed that the sound was coming from both units. Assuming both units were making noise they should have either declined the job or VERY clearly written on the work order...CUSTOMER WAS ADVISED TO REPLACE BOTH THE POWER STEERING PUMP AND THE A/C COMPRESSOR. Customer DECLINED the A/C compressor replacement. Now, the guy still could have complained on Social Media but if the shop had otherwise great reviews he probably would have been dismissed.

And, I agree. Should that customer return I would send him/her elsewhere.

I'd wager they were telling the truth and correct that there was a problem with the PS. They did advise the customer to replace both. The customer did decline the A/C compressor repair.

The shop, being known as the best in the business, pretty much did have the luxury of everyone pretty much dismissing the guys complaints as by his own doing. He didn't trust the shop, he either should have got a 2nd opinion, or not moved forward with any of the work.

The only way I could side with the customer is if they told him "ALL OF the noise is due to your PS, but your AC needs replacement too."

Oh yeah, the customer said he didn't agree to replace the AC because it "still blows cold." The more he says, the worse it looks for him.

qbrozen · June 2020

I'm wondering how a shop doesn't know how to isolate the noise. There are several methods, the quickest of which is to use a stethoscope.

andres3 · June 2020

qbrozen said:
I'm wondering how a shop doesn't know how to isolate the noise. There are several methods, the quickest of which is to use a stethoscope.

Does it matter if two different things are making noise? You either want your car repaired and quiet, or half broken and noisy.

roadburner · June 2020

My Mini is at my BMW dealer; a couple of techs are working on it off and on trying to pin down a lean condition. Compression is excellent, and it passed the smoke test. My SA doesn't want to throw parts at the problem but we both suspect the aftermarket valve cover and O2 sensor another shop installed is very likely the problem- although the VC also tests fine. Very frustrating.

qbrozen · June 2020

andres3 said:

qbrozen said:
I'm wondering how a shop doesn't know how to isolate the noise. There are several methods, the quickest of which is to use a stethoscope.
Does it matter if two different things are making noise? You either want your car repaired and quiet, or half broken and noisy.

If both are making noise, no, it doesn’t matter. Odds are not very good they were both bad, though.

isellhondas · June 2020

qbrozen said:
I'm wondering how a shop doesn't know how to isolate the noise. There are several methods, the quickest of which is to use a stethoscope.

My point exactly. I could be wrong but I strongly suspect the PS pump wasn't the problem.

thecardoc3 · June 2020

qbrozen said:
I'm wondering how a shop doesn't know how to isolate the noise. There are several methods, the quickest of which is to use a stethoscope.

Limited access can be part of the problem. Plus in many cases components such as the AC compressor and power steering can be on the same brackets that extend out from the engine block. That usually makes the entire assembly display noise and it can be nearly impossible to determine which one is truly the source. Today we even have more sophisticated tools available to technicians to try to help with this diagnosis but sometimes nothing helps arrive at an answer. But of course if both were genuinely noisey, then?

When faced with the challenge of not really being sure whether one or the other (or both) is the source of a sound the tech can try turning the AC On/Off and see if the loading of the assembly that way has an impact on the sound(s) being observed. They can remove the drive belt and try to feel by hand if the pulley bearing displays any roughness or play. There have been occasions where to try and force a change in the sound the fluid can be temporarily drained from the power steering system just to test and see if that has an impact on the noise being observed.

Imagine taking a problem like this to the level where the technician attaches microphones and/or accelerometers to the components and/or the car where the sound is noticeable. Then connects them to a digital storage oscilloscope like the PICOscope. Then writes a math channel to have the scope either add the signals together, subtract one from the other, or whatever to see if that can reveal the source of the sound. It can take at least two of this kit to accomplish this task. https://www.picoauto.com/products/nvh-accessories/pico-nvh-starter-diagnostic-kit-carry-case

That tool also has to be licensed to use which means you couldn't even borrow it without also borrowing mylaptop that I use it with.

Here is another tool that is used today by top technicians. https://www.steelmantools.com/bluetooth-chassisear.html

thecardoc3 · June 2020

roadburner said:
My Mini is at my BMW dealer; a couple of techs are working on it off and on trying to pin down a lean condition. Compression is excellent, and it passed the smoke test.

I don't know why I'm bothering because the odds are that nothing will come back to me for the effort, nothing good anyway.

The compression has little to no bearing on a lean condition. If the cylinder was leaking air, you would end up with a rich condition. Passing the smoke test suggests they have confirmed that the problem is at idle, no load. Correct? Is it lean at idle and only at idle or is it lean other times as well? How big of a correction is the fuel system making under various engine speeds and loads? Use the Global values of Long Term , Short term, and total fuel trim if possible. Get the data at idle, 1500rpm, 2500rpm, no load and also at those same speeds with a load. What happens on a WOT acceleration, does the fuel delivery system keep up with the demand?

roadburner said:

My SA doesn't want to throw parts at the problem but we both suspect the aftermarket valve cover and O2 sensor another shop installed is very likely the problem- although the VC also tests fine. Very frustrating.

If you suspect the valve cover, how much vacuum is being pulled on the crankcase when measured with a water manometer?

Why blame the O2 sensor? What specifically has been noticed that suggests inaccuracy? Has someone used a four or five gas analyzer and confirmed what the lambda is coming out of the tailpipe and cross checked that against what scan data is saying that is being reported by both the upstream and downstream sensors? Short if doing that it is little more than a guess as to whether it is accurate or not but while the failure is occurring are both the upstream and downstream sensors in agreement?

roadburner · June 2020

I didn't post to obtain your diagnosis or pick a fight; I just posted it to show that some problems are not easily solved.
That's my last word on the subject.

thecardoc3 · June 2020

roadburner said:
I didn't post to obtain your diagnosis or pick a fight;

Lots of problems are not easily solved. In fact anymore the majority of the things techs encounter demand more training, more expensive equipment, and a much more intelligent individual going about the process. I'm glad you didn't want to pick a fight, that was the furthest thing from my mind anyway. I am also glad you didn't want my help. I have no real desire to tell you what is probably wrong even if I do know. (and I just might) I was willing to share how to figure it out for the technicians sake. If the techs working on it would like more than just replace XXXXX tell them how to get hold of me and I'll help them.

roadburner said:

I just posted it to show that some problems are not easily solved.

The thing is with a solid process it can be "easier". Manufacturer's training falls well short in most cases when it comes to teaching techs the right way to do diagnostics.

xwesx · June 2020

A couple months ago, I received a call from a friend to whom I lent my 2008 Subaru Forester. He said, "The car won't start.... worked fine this morning, but now it just cranks and cranks with no ignition."

Then he follows by saying, "Well, we replaced the spark plugs, but that didn't do anything, so we were thinking we would..."

I said... "STOP! Please don't throw parts at it. Just put it in a garage and I will come to take a look tomorrow."

When I arrived, the friend mentioned that they followed on by trying to shoot it with starting fluid, and it did fire up for a few seconds before it quit again. That gave me a good idea that I should investigate the fuel system first. After turning the ignition on and listening for the fuel pump (unsuccessfully), I did a little research online to get wiring info, then I went at it with the multimeter. I traced the wiring from the initial relay all the way back to the pump, and every single wire and component was reading as it should all the way.

At that point, the only option was the fuel pump assembly itself, so I went ahead and pulled it (not necessarily fun, but it could have been much worse!). I tried to directly hook it up to 12V to ensure it was not working, and, indeed, it was not working. I then pulled the pump and directly connected it to 12V.... fires right up! I was a little shocked, to be honest, because there is about 8" of wiring between the connector on the pump and the sealed connector at the top of the assembly (where I tried the first time). So, I tried to pull the wiring plug from the inside of the connector, and I couldn't get it out! With a lot of effort, I finally extracted it, and the whole thing was melted down with the wire leads practically arced to dust.

In the end, I had to install a new assembly because the only individually-available part was the pump. About $425 (and two weeks' shipping) later, I slipped the new assembly into the car, plugged it in, primed it, and the car was working just fine.

While it was frustrating to spend that much money on a car I am not even using, I did feel really good about the process and end result. Perhaps the best part was the horrified look on my friend's face when seeing the car as I was finishing up the testing. It was a, "How are you ever going to get this all back together again?!" look of uncertain doom.... VERY gratifying. Haha

isellhondas · June 2020

Being a Auto Technician is a tough thing anymore. Trying to save a customer money can easily backfire and isn't usually appreciated. It used to be if a car wouldn't start it was one of two or three things. A miss in the engine was easy to isolate and fix. Those days are LONG gone!

andres3 · June 2020

isellhondas said:
Being a Auto Technician is a tough thing anymore. Trying to save a customer money can easily backfire and isn't usually appreciated. It used to be if a car wouldn't start it was one of two or three things. A miss in the engine was easy to isolate and fix. Those days are LONG gone!

Trust in your honesty and competency builds faith and value in your recommendations and "appreciation" for money saved.

Without trust, tough to have any "appreciation." One good rule of thumb any tech or shop manager should use is the old "if it was MY car, what would I want done" approach.

isellhondas · June 2020

andres3 said:

isellhondas said:
Being a Auto Technician is a tough thing anymore. Trying to save a customer money can easily backfire and isn't usually appreciated. It used to be if a car wouldn't start it was one of two or three things. A miss in the engine was easy to isolate and fix. Those days are LONG gone!
Trust in your honesty and competency builds faith and value in your recommendations and "appreciation" for money saved.

Without trust, tough to have any "appreciation." One good rule of thumb any tech or shop manager should use is the old "if it was MY car, what would I want done" approach.

You are assuming customers are loyal. My local shop just lost 25 years of my loyality and literally dozens of referrals from me whan they tried to double charge me for a job.

In my post I was speaking more of a tech today trying to diagnose a tough to pinpoint problem. If he charges too much diagnostic time then he's a crook. If he makes a smart educated guess and misses then he's a bad guy too.

Like I said only the strongest and smartest can survive anymore.

thecardoc3 · June 2020

isellhondas said:
Being a Auto Technician is a tough thing anymore. Trying to save a customer money can easily backfire and isn't usually appreciated. It used to be if a car wouldn't start it was one of two or three things. A miss in the engine was easy to isolate and fix. Those days are LONG gone!

There are of course times when a misfire is easily solved and that creates it's own problem. When the easy fix is tried and works it is praised and rewarded. Meanwhile the tech had an opportunity to practice solid diagnostic routines and enhance his/her skills and that was also lost. That is something that will cost the shop/technician sometime in the future. RB's Mini is essentially a fine example of what happens when the techs work in a system that fails to recognize let alone reward the need for the techs to adopt more advanced skills.

isellhondas said:

You are assuming customers are loyal. My local shop just lost 25 years of my loyality and literally dozens of referrals from me whan they tried to double charge me for a job.

In my post I was speaking more of a tech today trying to diagnose a tough to pinpoint problem. If he charges too much diagnostic time then he's a crook. If he makes a smart educated guess and misses then he's a bad guy too.

Like I said only the strongest and smartest can survive anymore.

Remember the comparison of some of the things I was saying here to the "Soup [non-permissible content removed]" from Seinfeld? The better shops and technicians have had to learn that saying "No" to someone is not just an option it is a necessity. There is very little loyalty between most consumers and shops and when we had someone who refused to understand why we had to take a different approach 20-30 years ago they got to be encouraged to take their business elsewhere.

Over the last decade you have seen samples of what diagnostics has evolved to become over the last 20-30 years. The truth is I have only shared a fraction of what techs have to be ready to do on any given day, there is much more to it that what I have shared here. Do you remember what the general opinion with respect to diagnostics and fees was that when I first came here nearly a decade ago? Meanwhile some of us were already using tools and skills that few outside of a very select set of technicians around the country even knew existed.

thecardoc3 · June 2020

andres3 said:
One good rule of thumb any tech or shop manager should use is the old "if it was MY car, what would I want done" approach.

I could give you a pretty healthy list of "Consumer Experts" who would paint that line as a lead to a rip-off.

benjaminh · July 2020

This mechanic likes Toyota engines....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TyE5mATcGM

andres3 · July 2020

So how wide a range of acceptable cooling do car Air Conditioning systems get? Does it depend on the make, or the make and model?

I may be wasting 85 to 175 dollars today at the Stealership if the variance on my A4's A/C system isn't sufficient to constitute failure in the CPO manager's eyes.

A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles