Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

ronsteve · July 2020

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:
You want to start a brawl, come to NJ and ask where central jersey is.
If you want to confuse someone from NYC just ask them where is upstate.

Sort of like trying to decide what is southern Illinois.

I grew up in NW Indiana, but close enough to Chicago to have the Chicago perspective!

And I totally understand the NY breakdown because my dad grew up near Rochester and my mom grew up near Albany.

tjc78 · July 2020

Look I don’t fight about much here....

BUT

It’s Pork Roll
It’s a hoagie
And there is a central Jersey

Thank you

snakeweasel · July 2020

tjc78 said:
Look I don’t fight about much here....

BUT

It’s Pork Roll
It’s a hoagie
And there is a central Jersey

Thank you

My only experience with New Jersey was an all expense paid trip to Cape May, where I was yelled at a lot and was told to run a lot.

oldfarmer50 · July 2020

stickguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:
You want to start a brawl, come to NJ and ask where central jersey is.
If you want to confuse someone from NYC just ask them where is upstate.

the top map is very true. I grew up just north of NYC (other side of the river from Sandy). I could see the skyline from a tree in our yard (before other trees grew too tall). maybe 15 miles. Yet, the "city people" considered that "upstate". They were nuts. Though I still consider the capital district upstate. Mainly because once you get much north of Saratoga, it is pretty much wilderness until you hit Canada!

In Jersey, the natives seem to be very touchy about the Central concept. Many swear there is only north and south (but don't always agree where the line is) and will fight the sect that believes there is a central (I happen to think there definitely is). Battle lines tend to be drawn along the Taylor ham vs. Pork rule divide.

Craigslist only acknowledges a north and south Jersey.

oldfarmer50 · July 2020

explorerx4 said:
Some cars have non defeatable or semi defeatable traction control systems.

I’ve read somewhere that the reason you see Mustangs going out of control in those fail videos is that the traction/stability control can never be turned completely off. During those show off maneuvers it kicks back on and throws the car out of control.

Or that could just be a poor driver’s excuse.

https://youtu.be/m0hEetKxWbU

tjc78 · July 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:
You want to start a brawl, come to NJ and ask where central jersey is.
If you want to confuse someone from NYC just ask them where is upstate.

the top map is very true. I grew up just north of NYC (other side of the river from Sandy). I could see the skyline from a tree in our yard (before other trees grew too tall). maybe 15 miles. Yet, the "city people" considered that "upstate". They were nuts. Though I still consider the capital district upstate. Mainly because once you get much north of Saratoga, it is pretty much wilderness until you hit Canada!

In Jersey, the natives seem to be very touchy about the Central concept. Many swear there is only north and south (but don't always agree where the line is) and will fight the sect that believes there is a central (I happen to think there definitely is). Battle lines tend to be drawn along the Taylor ham vs. Pork rule divide.
Craigslist only acknowledges a north and south Jersey.

https://cnj.craigslist.org/

tjc78 · July 2020

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:
Look I don’t fight about much here....

BUT

It’s Pork Roll
It’s a hoagie
And there is a central Jersey

Thank you
My only experience with New Jersey was an all expense paid trip to Cape May, where I was yelled at a lot and was told to run a lot.

Lmao. That may be the kindest place in NJ. Southern most point.

snakeweasel · July 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:
Some cars have non defeatable or semi defeatable traction control systems.
I’ve read somewhere that the reason you see Mustangs going out of control in those fail videos is that the traction/stability control can never be turned completely off. During those show off maneuvers it kicks back on and throws the car out of control.

Or that could just be a poor driver’s excuse.

https://youtu.be/m0hEetKxWbU

I vote for poor driving.

oldfarmer50 · July 2020

tjc78 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:
You want to start a brawl, come to NJ and ask where central jersey is.
If you want to confuse someone from NYC just ask them where is upstate.

the top map is very true. I grew up just north of NYC (other side of the river from Sandy). I could see the skyline from a tree in our yard (before other trees grew too tall). maybe 15 miles. Yet, the "city people" considered that "upstate". They were nuts. Though I still consider the capital district upstate. Mainly because once you get much north of Saratoga, it is pretty much wilderness until you hit Canada!

In Jersey, the natives seem to be very touchy about the Central concept. Many swear there is only north and south (but don't always agree where the line is) and will fight the sect that believes there is a central (I happen to think there definitely is). Battle lines tend to be drawn along the Taylor ham vs. Pork rule divide.
Craigslist only acknowledges a north and south Jersey.
https://cnj.craigslist.org/

Sorry about that, guess I didn’t check close enough.

snakeweasel · July 2020

tjc78 said:

snakeweasel said:

tjc78 said:
Look I don’t fight about much here....

BUT

It’s Pork Roll
It’s a hoagie
And there is a central Jersey

Thank you
My only experience with New Jersey was an all expense paid trip to Cape May, where I was yelled at a lot and was told to run a lot.
Lmao. That may be the kindest place in NJ. Southern most point.

Well it's called Boot Camp.

graphicguy · July 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

graphicguy said:

RB...I doubt it's what you're looking for. I think you're looking for a mechanical LSD.
You are absolutely right; I should have clarified my comment. A pure mechanical LSD is good enough for me, although some cars-like the true BMW ///M cars have a mechanical LSD where the clutch packs are controlled electronically. The 440i manual coupe I found was AWD, but I fully intended to install the M Performance locking diff as soon as I drove it home. Plus, it had the Track Handling Package and the M Performance power and Sound Kit- so I thought the AWD experience would be tolerable.

Do AWD systems come with limited slip differentials? I had lots of fun in the snow with plain old RWD limited slip. It must be a hoot with AWD.

Haven’t experienced snow or ice with the Stinger yet (matter of fact, I can’t recall getting anything that stuck to the ground in the OH Valley last Winter). But, I did experience some of it with my TLX.

The limits of the tires are more the issue than the car’s behavior. It automatically (and instantaneously) shifted torque to the corner(s) of the car from the wheels that were slipping to those that weren’t....until the wheel’s slipping subsided. The result was being able to traverse very slippery roads without much drama.

In the dry is where the LSD really shined. The TLX cornered like it was a much lighter, much smaller car as a result.

The Stinger is much the same. I have yet to find a speed that scares me in the Stinger. That said, it has summer rubber on it. This winter, I’m going to have to invest in some cold weather rubber when the weather turns. I’m sure that will affect handling (and not in a good way).

tjc78 · July 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

tjc78 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:
You want to start a brawl, come to NJ and ask where central jersey is.
If you want to confuse someone from NYC just ask them where is upstate.

the top map is very true. I grew up just north of NYC (other side of the river from Sandy). I could see the skyline from a tree in our yard (before other trees grew too tall). maybe 15 miles. Yet, the "city people" considered that "upstate". They were nuts. Though I still consider the capital district upstate. Mainly because once you get much north of Saratoga, it is pretty much wilderness until you hit Canada!

In Jersey, the natives seem to be very touchy about the Central concept. Many swear there is only north and south (but don't always agree where the line is) and will fight the sect that believes there is a central (I happen to think there definitely is). Battle lines tend to be drawn along the Taylor ham vs. Pork rule divide.
Craigslist only acknowledges a north and south Jersey.
https://cnj.craigslist.org/
Sorry about that, guess I didn’t check close enough.

Nothing to be sorry for!! Guess I’m a little snarky this morning!

tjc78 · July 2020

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:
Some cars have non defeatable or semi defeatable traction control systems.
I’ve read somewhere that the reason you see Mustangs going out of control in those fail videos is that the traction/stability control can never be turned completely off. During those show off maneuvers it kicks back on and throws the car out of control.

Or that could just be a poor driver’s excuse.

https://youtu.be/m0hEetKxWbU

If you want it totally off just pull the fuse.

I did that on my Genesis. Nice brake stand and a few donuts in an abandoned parking lot.

tjc78 · July 2020

graphicguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

graphicguy said:

RB...I doubt it's what you're looking for. I think you're looking for a mechanical LSD.
You are absolutely right; I should have clarified my comment. A pure mechanical LSD is good enough for me, although some cars-like the true BMW ///M cars have a mechanical LSD where the clutch packs are controlled electronically. The 440i manual coupe I found was AWD, but I fully intended to install the M Performance locking diff as soon as I drove it home. Plus, it had the Track Handling Package and the M Performance power and Sound Kit- so I thought the AWD experience would be tolerable.

Do AWD systems come with limited slip differentials? I had lots of fun in the snow with plain old RWD limited slip. It must be a hoot with AWD.
Haven’t experienced snow or ice with the Stinger yet (matter of fact, I can’t recall getting anything that stuck to the ground in the OH Valley last Winter). But, I did experience some of it with my TLX.

The limits of the tires are more the issue than the car’s behavior. It automatically (and instantaneously) shifted torque to the corner(s) of the car from the wheels that were slipping to those that weren’t....until the wheel’s slipping subsided. The result was being able to traverse very slippery roads without much drama.

In the dry is where the LSD really shined. The TLX cornered like it was a much lighter, much smaller car as a result.

The Stinger is much the same. I have yet to find a speed that scares me in the Stinger. That said, it has summer rubber on it. This winter, I’m going to have to invest in some cold weather rubber when the weather turns. I’m sure that will affect handling (and not in a good way).

Two words. Winter Beater.

stickguy · July 2020

tjc78 said:
Look I don’t fight about much here....

BUT

It’s Pork Roll
It’s a hoagie
And there is a central Jersey

Thank you

I believe in central jersey. And after being down here for 35 years, use hoagie (but it’s really still a sub). Pork roll or Taylor ham, never heard of it in NY. Buts it really just baloney. If I want processed ham product, I’m sticking with the good stuff. SPAM.

roadburner · July 2020

Some people believe that a traction control system is as good as a limited slip diff- but it most definitely is not from a performance standpoint. For example, if a wheel spins the traction control brakes the spinning wheel- which with an open diff has the effect of vectoring torque to the other wheel- and unless you are Erik Carlsson and rallying a Saab you do NOT want the brakes applied when you are trying to accelerate. If braking the spinning wheel doesn’t work the traction control system dials back the power, which is also a less than optimum solution.
I do think that AWD is more of a help than a hindrance as a vehicle’s hp approaches 600. As I mentioned earlier, the current M5 and E63 S are AWD but do allow the driver to adjust the torque distribution- so in those particular cases I wouldn’t mind owning a true performance car with four driven wheels.

tjc78 · July 2020

stickguy said:

tjc78 said:
Look I don’t fight about much here....

BUT

It’s Pork Roll
It’s a hoagie
And there is a central Jersey

Thank you
I believe in central jersey. And after being down here for 35 years, use hoagie (but it’s really still a sub). Pork roll or Taylor ham, never heard of it in NY. Buts it really just baloney. If I want processed ham product, I’m sticking with the good stuff. SPAM.

I love pork roll, probably my favorite breakfast meat. I haven’t had SPAM for years, my Grandfather used to make it.

ab348 · July 2020

Honda swings the axe on the Fit, Civic coupe, and manual-transmission Accord:

https://www.cars.com/articles/sleepin-with-the-fishes-honda-fit-civic-coupe-manual-accord-get-whacked-424098/

Up here, the first two at least seemed somewhat popular.

roadburner · July 2020

ab348 said:
Honda swings the axe on the Fit, Civic coupe, and manual-transmission Accord:

https://www.cars.com/articles/sleepin-with-the-fishes-honda-fit-civic-coupe-manual-accord-get-whacked-424098/

Up here, the first two at least seemed somewhat popular.

The CUV fad and the general dumbing down of vehicle operators have claimed a few more victims.

28firefighter · July 2020

I'm a little surprised they killed the Fit - they were super popular up here.

ronsteve · July 2020

28firefighter said:
I'm a little surprised they killed the Fit - they were super popular up here.

I guess with the HR-V (High Roll-center Vehicle?) they didn't need the Fit any more.

stickguy · July 2020

At least they are keeping the civic hatch. That’s much better than a 2 door anyway.

Looks like I guessed right. A new civic is coming out soon. I hope they improve the seats.

roadburner · July 2020

stickguy said:
At least they are keeping the civic hatch. That’s much better than a 2 door anyway.

Looks like I guessed right. A new civic is coming out soon. I hope they improve the seats.

I never understood why the Si wasn’t a hatch, which I would prefer.

stickguy · July 2020

Only the R was this generation. Honda being Honda.

Should be though on the next model.

Michaell · July 2020

Next gen Type R is rumored to have 400hp and AWD

driver100 · July 2020

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:
Some cars have non defeatable or semi defeatable traction control systems.
I’ve read somewhere that the reason you see Mustangs going out of control in those fail videos is that the traction/stability control can never be turned completely off. During those show off maneuvers it kicks back on and throws the car out of control.

Or that could just be a poor driver’s excuse.

https://youtu.be/m0hEetKxWbU
I vote for poor driving.

Maybe it is more than just poor driving. Most of these incidents seem to happen a lot to Mustangs. Some, not all, Mustang drivers buy a Mustang because they want a car that is fast and sporty. But, these guys don't know there own limits, and they don't realize the car has limits too.

Remember the Dunning-Kruger Effect, it is the tendency for people to misjudge their abilities. People with less than average abilities tend to overestimate their true abilities, while those with higher than average abilities tend to not realize how much better they are. These guys have a little bit of knowledge and dream big, and they think because they drive a Mustang they have more driving ability than they really have.

Of course none of this applies to oldfarmer who has good old common sense.

dino001 · July 2020

driver100 said:

Remember the Dunning-Kruger Effect, it is the tendency for people to misjudge their abilities. People with less than average abilities tend to overestimate their true abilities, while those with higher than average abilities tend to not realize how much better they are.

In this case, Andre must be the best driver on this planet, if not the Galaxy.

28firefighter · July 2020

Michaell said:
Next gen Type R is rumored to have 400hp and AWD

Sign @roadburner up!

suydam · July 2020

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:
You want to start a brawl, come to NJ and ask where central jersey is.
If you want to confuse someone from NYC just ask them where is upstate.

Sort of like trying to decide what is southern Illinois.

That’s too true! Although my parents and their relatives said they were from Western Illinois — AKA farm country. They viewed Chicago as a foreign country.

stickguy · July 2020

Also the drivers are showing off for the crowd. Always seems to happen when there are a lot of people watching.

explorerx4 · July 2020

I been to several Mustang shows and some people definitely feel the need/pressure to show off.

venture · July 2020

eek

qbrozen · July 2020

when people are around, I do the exact opposite and try to avoid driving like an idiot. When I'm by myself, I can be as dumb as I want.

In other news, garage doors were done today. I'm very happy with the result. Looks much better than I expected.

Now I gotta sweep up and do something about those awful lights.

pensfan83 · July 2020

Looks nice. I wish we had windowless doors, I was overruled on that one.

kyfdx · July 2020

pensfan83 said:
Looks nice. I wish we had windowless doors, I was overruled on that one.

Our biggest dilemma was rectangles or squares on a 16' door. (almost everyone has squares)

qbrozen · July 2020

We are in total agreement about no windows. If your significant other watched a video on how easy those are to break into, she may have changed her mind.

explorerx4 · July 2020

I wish my garage doors had windows, only light is from a door and window on the north side and a window on the east side.

pensfan83 · July 2020

That was my exact reasoning. Fortunately the garage faces the road and if a car is left outside it's down the driveway a bit so the garage is never really blocked from full view.

ab348 · July 2020

qbrozen said:

In other news, garage doors were done today. I'm very happy with the result. Looks much better than I expected.

Now I gotta sweep up and do something about those awful lights.

The notch near the peak of the roof is a unique touch.

qbrozen · July 2020

ab348 said:

qbrozen said:

In other news, garage doors were done today. I'm very happy with the result. Looks much better than I expected.

Now I gotta sweep up and do something about those awful lights.
The notch near the peak of the roof is a unique touch.

That’s the main house roof peaking up in the distance. Lol. We technically have 3 separate roofs: the garage, the “breezeway,” the house, and the .... I don’t know WTH it is... sometimes called Solarium, I think? It is an extra room off the ground floor at the back of the house. Lots of windows. We call it “the piano room” because a piano was there when we moved in and will likely be there if/when we move out.

driver100 · July 2020

I was reading a review about the Tesla 3 in todays Wheels.ca section of the newspaper. They praise the car in a lot of ways this being part of the praise:

On the road, the Model 3 SR+ is smooth, quick, and surprisingly analog. Acceleration is effortless, while the car’s default regenerative braking creates the right amount of resistance for urban driving.

Where the SR+ really stomps its competition is in the way it tackles a corner. The steering is ultra precise and the car responds immediately to the slightest inputs. Give it too much throttle upon corner exit, and yes, it’ll kick out the rear the way a BMW 3-Series would, but allows you to correct its trajectory with the slightest steering inputs. It’s all executed with the utmost accuracy, enhancing the car’s driving excitement.

The 2020 Tesla Model SR+ was proving to be a much more compelling machine than we originally expected. Furthermore, we were having just as much fun driving this laptop on wheels than many gasoline-fed contraptions currently on sale. It’s a truly fantastic automobile this one.

But, then, the problems started creeping in.
These were some negatives!

At freeway speeds we heard infuriatingly loud wind noise coming from the driver’s side window. It was so bad that we had to check twice if the window was correctly fitted inside its slot.

Then, it was the car’s centre console; that large slab of cheap plastic that occupies the entire cabin’s midsection. It just wouldn’t stop cracking as the car drove over the slightest road imperfections. And don’t get us started about how flimsy the Model 3’s entire structure feels over uneven tarmac. Is this supposed to be a $53,000 luxury sedan? It sure doesn’t feel like one.

At this point it’s important to mention that Tesla doesn’t have press units for journalists to review, which forced us to turn to the Turo car sharing service. Through a mobile app, the service allows you to rent someone’s vehicle for an entire day, or even a weekend. Because this bargain basement 2020 Model 3 2020 SR+ only had 6,000 km on tap, we felt it was fitting for our test.

The cabin issues could have been forgiven considering Tesla isn’t yet a big player in this game. Indeed, kudos goes to this California-based startup for manufacturing a device so technologically advanced that it instantly makes you wonder why big-name brands haven’t gotten there first.

Unfortunately, our issues with the car didn’t stop there. Once parked at the Tesla Supercharger to juice up our battery, we took the time to properly observe our example’s build quality. We weren’t entirely surprised to notice the wrap that was protecting its body, as the Model 3 is notorious for its bad paint quality that peels off the rocker panels after a few Canadian winters.

Tesla still doesn’t offer a solution for this by the way, leaving many owners stranded with a car that’s shedding its own skin. A wrap, or, in some cases, mudguards, seem to be the best fix owners have come up with.

What we weren’t expecting were the immense panel gaps and uneven assembly on each side of the car. We spotted a rear driver side door that didn’t properly align with the body, and rubber moldings of uneven thickness around the car’s openings.

Then, another Model 3 owner pulled up next to us, and his situation was even worse than ours.

Christophe Murphy has had his Model 3 SR+ for less than a week, and he’s not a happy camper. For starters, he purchased his SR+ before June 30th, which, according to Tesla, would grant him access to free Supercharging for the first year of ownership. Yet, his car isn’t equipped with the feature. All attempts to contact Tesla on his part about this have so far failed.

Murphy then showed us his car’s build quality, which wasn’t any better than ours. We spotted an uneven passenger-side C-pillar, a driver-side mirror that doesn’t properly align with the front fender and A-pillar, and a rear door that doesn’t operate the way it should due to the way it has been fitted.

Christophe then carried on telling us that his grandfather also owns a Model 3, which is also a victim of bad paint. Within 24 hours, we had spotted three examples. And all of them had serious issues.

This brings us to the following question: if these manufacturing flaws would have appeared on any other car, would you be so forgiving? We wouldn’t, which is why although we have tremendous respect for everything that comes out of Tesla’s Fremont plant in California, and admire how the brand has reshaped the automotive landscape, we simply can’t excuse pitfalls such as these, especially in a car that’s supposedly aimed at the middle class.

I couldn't take the plunge and by one at this time.

stickguy · July 2020

qbrozen said:
when people are around, I do the exact opposite and try to avoid driving like an idiot. When I'm by myself, I can be as dumb as I want.

In other news, garage doors were done today. I'm very happy with the result. Looks much better than I expected.

Now I gotta sweep up and do something about those awful lights.

damn, I want your garage.

explorerx4 · July 2020

@stickguy,
Some more garage porn for you.

oldfarmer50 · July 2020

roadburner said:
Some people believe that a traction control system is as good as a limited slip diff- but it most definitely is not from a performance standpoint. For example, if a wheel spins the traction control brakes the spinning wheel- which with an open diff has the effect of vectoring torque to the other wheel- and unless you are Erik Carlsson and rallying a Saab you do NOT want the brakes applied when you are trying to accelerate. If braking the spinning wheel doesn’t work the traction control system dials back the power, which is also a less than optimum solution.
I do think that AWD is more of a help than a hindrance as a vehicle’s hp approaches 600. As I mentioned earlier, the current M5 and E63 S are AWD but do allow the driver to adjust the torque distribution- so in those particular cases I wouldn’t mind owning a true performance car with four driven wheels.

In the Mustang I don’t have any sensation of brakes being applied when I accelerate but if I turn off the traction control I’d be spinning the wheels every time I moved. It still allows for some spirited driving...I inadvertently did a power slide through a rotary once in the rain without it intervening.

oldfarmer50 · July 2020

Michaell said:
Next gen Type R is rumored to have 400hp and AWD

I wonder how they’ll accomplish that.

oldfarmer50 · July 2020

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:
Some cars have non defeatable or semi defeatable traction control systems.
I’ve read somewhere that the reason you see Mustangs going out of control in those fail videos is that the traction/stability control can never be turned completely off. During those show off maneuvers it kicks back on and throws the car out of control.

Or that could just be a poor driver’s excuse.

https://youtu.be/m0hEetKxWbU
I vote for poor driving.
Maybe it is more than just poor driving. Most of these incidents seem to happen a lot to Mustangs. Some, not all, Mustang drivers buy a Mustang because they want a car that is fast and sporty. But, these guys don't know there own limits, and they don't realize the car has limits too.

Remember the Dunning-Kruger Effect, it is the tendency for people to misjudge their abilities. People with less than average abilities tend to overestimate their true abilities, while those with higher than average abilities tend to not realize how much better they are. These guys have a little bit of knowledge and dream big, and they think because they drive a Mustang they have more driving ability than they really have.

Of course none of this applies to oldfarmer who has good old common sense.

I don’t know about that but I haven’t hit anything in a long time.

oldfarmer50 · July 2020

explorerx4 said:
I been to several Mustang shows and some people definitely feel the need/pressure to show off.

I think that modern cars are so well insulated that drivers may not realize what’s going on around them. I know that I’ve accelerated what I thought was moderately only to look in the mirror and see cars behind me had disappeared. Didn’t feel like I was going fast.

But from some of those videos I wonder if some people don’t know how to use brakes or the steering wheel.

oldfarmer50 · July 2020

qbrozen said:
when people are around, I do the exact opposite and try to avoid driving like an idiot. When I'm by myself, I can be as dumb as I want.

In other news, garage doors were done today. I'm very happy with the result. Looks much better than I expected.

Now I gotta sweep up and do something about those awful lights.

I’m jealous. I’ve got a house and a barn and I’m still down one on you.

jmonroe1 · July 2020

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

explorerx4 said:
Some cars have non defeatable or semi defeatable traction control systems.
I’ve read somewhere that the reason you see Mustangs going out of control in those fail videos is that the traction/stability control can never be turned completely off. During those show off maneuvers it kicks back on and throws the car out of control.

Or that could just be a poor driver’s excuse.

https://youtu.be/m0hEetKxWbU
I vote for poor driving.
Maybe it is more than just poor driving. Most of these incidents seem to happen a lot to Mustangs. Some, not all, Mustang drivers buy a Mustang because they want a car that is fast and sporty. But, these guys don't know there own limits, and they don't realize the car has limits too.

Remember the Dunning-Kruger Effect, it is the tendency for people to misjudge their abilities. People with less than average abilities tend to overestimate their true abilities, while those with higher than average abilities tend to not realize how much better they are. These guys have a little bit of knowledge and dream big, and they think because they drive a Mustang they have more driving ability than they really have.

Of course none of this applies to oldfarmer who has good old common sense.

I fully agree with the OLD part.

jmonroe

Sandman6472 · July 2020

Living about 30 miles north of New York City, never thought we lived in upstate New York. We just always said just above the city and left it at that. Most folks have never heard of the little village that I grew up in, well until I turned 15, as it really is a small little place. But no way would anyone ever call it upstate!

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