Lease Questions - Ask Here

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

You're welcome, Chris. I should be bale to help you out with info on the 9-7. According to the latest informaiton that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2005 Saab 9-7X Arc through Saab Financial Services Corp. right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00187 and 56%, respectively. The residual value for an otherwise identical lease with only 12,000 miles per year should be 1% higher. When negotiating your lease on this truck, don't forget that Saab is providing $1,000 bonus cash on it this month. This money will help you to negotiate an attractive capitalized cost.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Hi Volvobyr. Many manufacturers lease Certified Pre-Owned vehicles through their captive finance companies. In fact, some even provide lease support on a few targeted CPO models. Unfortunately, support on used vehicle leases is not nearly as common as it is on new vehicle leases. As a result, it often turns out that the difference between the lease payment for a used vehicle and an equivalent new vehicle is not enough to justify going with the used. The selling prices of used vehicles can still be negotiated, just as the selling prices of new vehicles can. Of course, used vehicles do not have invoice prices, so you have to figure out what they are actually worth. You can find out approximately what the used vehicle that you are interested in is worth by looking up its Edmunds.com True Market Value in the Used Vehicle Pricing section of this site. You also may want to stop by the following discussion: "Real-World Trade-In Values". One of our most knowledgeable community members, Terry, frequents that discussion and he is often kind enough to give community members who give him an accurate description of the vehicles that they are interested in with his opinion on their value.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Hi SeaBass. You sound as though you may be new to the world of leasing, you definitely should check out the following informative articles that are available here at Edmunds.com prior to visiting any dealers: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.

Before you even read either of those articles, I can tell you that in my opinion the two most important numbers to focus on when leasing are the selling price of the vehicle that you want and the lease money factor that is being used to calculate its monthly payment. These are the two main areas that dealers profit on new vehicle leases. Negotiate an attractive selling price on the Jeep that your sister wants, just as if she was paying cash or financing it. You may be able to get an idea of how much your sister should pay for her truck by visiting the following discussion: "Jeep Liberty: Prices Paid & Buying Experience". When negotiating this truck's selling price, don't forget that DaimlerChrysler is providing $1,500 lease cash plus an additional $1,000 bonus cash for leasing through Chrysler Financial ($3,500 total) on it right now. This money will help your sister to negotiate an attractive capitalized cost.

As far as the lease program on this truck goes, Chrysler Financial's current 36 month, 15,000 miles per year base lease money factor and residual value on the 2005 Jeep Liberty Sport 4WD are .00277 and 51%, respectively. Your sister definitely will not have to make a capitalized cost reduction, aka down payment, when leasing this truck if she doesn't want to. However, as with most leases, at signing she will have to pay her truck's first month's payment, a security deposit that is equivalent to that payment rounded up to the nearest $25 increment, Chrysler Financial's acquisition fee of $550, and any required state fees or taxes at signing.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Hi jhk_db. Here is the information that you are looking for. Lexus is not currently providing any sort of lease support on the 2006 Lexus GS 300. As a result, if you were to lease one through its captive finance company, Lexus Financial Services, you would have to use its standard lease money factors. The last time that I saw its standard lease program, LFS' base standard money factor for Tier 1+ customers was around .00245. LFS' residual values for 36 and 39 month, 12,000 miles per year leases of the 2006 GS 300 AWD without navigation are currently 59% and 56%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Hello mark_d_pa. I notice that you are considering using the trade in allowance that you receive for your current vehicle as a down payment on your lease. I always advise consumers against making any sort of down payment when leasing. I do so for two main reasons. The first is if your vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen during your lease, your insurance company pays off the bank that you were leasing it through and your down payment essentially disappears. The second main reason is that down payments on leased vehicles do nothing to reduce their lease-end purchase prices. So your lease-end purchase option price for this Tundra would be exactly the same, regardless of whether you had put several thousand dollars down, or had made absolutely no down payment at all.

Also, while you mentioned the dealer invoice and MSRP of the truck that you want, you never mentioned its selling price. This is an important number for you as a consumer to know for two reasons. First, the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing the price of the truck that you want to lease you don't know how good a price you are getting it for. The second reason is that one needs the selling price of a vehicle that they want to lease is that it is necessary to calculate its lease payment. I would be more than happy to work up a sample lease payment on the Tundra that you are interested in for you if you let me know what its selling price is. Also, I need to know what state you are in because Toyota's lease program often varies depending upon which one of its twelve regions one is in.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

You're welcome, manabout. It's always a good feeling when one learns that the dealer that they are working with is being straightforward with them and not trying to add any back-end profit to their deal. The lease program that is being used to calculate your car's monthly payment looks good and its selling price looks good as well. If you like the car I don't see any reason not to proceed with this deal, assuming that the payment works out right.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

I am glad that you enjoy this discussion so much, cidchris. Here is the info that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2005 BMW X5 3.0 through BMW Financial Services right now for 36 months (I do not believe that it is offering 39 month leases on this model right now) with 15,000 miles per year its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00125 and 58%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Let's calculate a sample lease payment on this car and see what we come up with, teamboulton. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2005 Infiniti G35 2WD Sedan with an MSRP of $35,270 and a selling price of $32,679 (which looks very reasonable to me) through Infiniti Financial Services right now for 39 months with 15,000 miles per year, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $401. If you were to roll IFS' lease acquisition fee of $550 into your cap cost, it would increase the payment to around $414 before tax.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

No problem, msdavis. The .00064 lease money factor that I provided you with earlier is definitely right. Of rouse, it assumes that you are paying a security deposit equivalent to your car's monthly payment rounded up to the nearest $25 increment and VW Credit's $575 lease acquisition fee (this is higher in some states) at lease signing. I believe that this is a national lease program, so it should not be any different in your area.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Wow, the dealer that you are working with tried to charge you $1,000 for your vehicle's acquisition fee. $625 is bad enough. Most BMW dealers only try to mark it up to around $825. A grand sticks out like a sore thumb and probably sets off alarms in many consumers' heads.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Greetings shayna. If you were to lease a 2005 Infiniti FX35 AWD through Infiniti Financial Services prior to May 31st for 36 months 12,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00190 and 63%. The residual value for an otherwise identical lease with only 10,000 miles per year would be 1% higher.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Hi jitendra1. I can give you an idea of what this car's current lease program is like, however in order for me to do so I need you to tell me how long you want to lease it for and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it. It is difficult to say what the lease program will be like for the 2006 A8 when it hits dealers, but if I had to make an educated guess I would say that it probably will not be any more attractive than the lease program currently is on the 2005 model.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Hi there ldrayton. If you were to lease a 2005 Infiniti G35 Coupe through Infiniti Financial Services right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00199 and 59%, respectively. If you let me know this car's full MSRP and an approximate selling price, I can work up a sample lease payment on it for you.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

I sure can, rover06. However, in order for me to give you an accurate idea of what this truck's lease program is currently like, I need you to tell me how long you want to lease it for and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

Here is the information that you are looking for, drspence. Saab's lease program is different on the 9-2 Linear and Arc models. If you were to lease a 2005 Saab 9-3 Arc Sedan through Saab Financial Services Corp. right now for 24 months with 12,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00030 and 59%, respectively. When negotiating your lease on this car, don't forget that Saab is providing $1,500 lease cash plus another $2,000 bonus cash ($3,500 total) on leases of it in May. This money will help you to negotiate an attractive capitalized cost.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

You are definitely on the right track, sp976. Consumer can and should lease new vehicles without making any sort of capitalized cost reduction. It is in your best interest to have the dealer that you are getting your new Nissan from cut you a check for your trade rather than using the $6,000 from it as a down payment on your lease. You should not have any trouble finding a dealer that is willing to cut you a check for your trade. You can then pay any money that you need to such as your Murano's first month's payment, security deposit, acquisition fee, taxes, etc... out of your own pocket.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2005

There are special financing and lease deals right now on both of the vehicles that you are considering, alexi1. BMW is currently offering 2.9% financing for up to 5 years on the 2005 X3 2.5. Many dealers are probably trying to mark this rate up, but since you know BMW is letting them offer 2.9% you should be fine. As far as the special lease program goes, it is only available for leases up to 42 months in length. BMW Financial Services current 36 and 42 month, 10,000 miles per year base money factors and residual values for this model are .00160 / 60% and .00160 / 54%, respectively.

On the 2005 Murano SL AWD Nissan is currently offering 3.0% financing for up to 3 years and 4.0% for 4 to 5 years. Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp.'s current 36 and 48 month 12,000 miles per year base lease money factors and residual values for this model are .00080 / 59% and .00199 / 50%, respectively.

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jax107 · May 2005

Ok...guys...I'm new to trying out the forum, so apologize if done incorrectly, but I am in desperate need of you help on a lease option. Specfically, am I getting ripped off or is there anything I can negotiate on?? The whole leasing thing really confuses me, so I really need help!

Toyota 4Runner Limited w/ Nav package/shocks/airbags/etc...
MSRP: $43,115
Neg. Price: ~$38,450 (1% over invoice)
Residual: $24,192
MF: .00176
Miles: 15,000/year
Monthly payment w/ tax: $596.84 (includes gap insurance)
Money down: $766.84 (includes first month + "fees")

I dont like the structure. The MF seems too high for my credit rating (which should be Tier 1 or Tier 1+) and I dont like the low residual (thought 4Runners were in the high 50's or 60% range?)

What can I do to improve the deal? I assume once they run credit score, they could do better on MF, but what is missing?

Thanks in advance for any help....really appreciate the value of this forum!

-Nick

cidchris · May 2005

Thanks Car_man.

I am starting to wonder if an X5 is worth having to deal with BMW dealers!

The X5 is one of two vehicles we are interested in, the other being the VW Touareg. Could you pls provide me with the MF and residual for the following scenarios...

V6 36/45k
V6 36/36k
V8 36/45k
V8 36/36k

Thank you very much for your assistance!

Chris

davidd3 · May 2005

Thanks Dennis.

Maybe I should explore the 3rd party lease option. From what I remember from other posts, although the MF would be lower, the residual will also be lower, the combination of which may result in little if any reduction of the monthly payment.

David D

dwynne · May 2005

I took a minute to compare the numbers. You should find the results interesting.

Payments do not include taxes, title, tags, etc and assume "A" credit score. This is using the inflated MF and acquisition fee and doc fee the dealer gave you.

Dealer, just the car (you pay acquisition fee and doc fee at signing): $493.93/mo

Dealer, just the car at buy rate: $471.45/mo ($22.48 cheaper - $809.28 over the life of the lease)

Dealer, with acquisition fee and doc fee rolled in (at the marked up rate): $531.54/mo

3rd Party lease, just the car (59% and 0.00210): $460.60/month

3rd Party lease, with acquisition fee and doc fee rolled in: $487.31/month

So paying the fees up front (and at a lower price) the 3rd party lease would save you $33.33 a month. Even at the buy rate you would save $10.85 a month.

If you roll the fees into the cap cost then you save a whopping $44.23 a month or $1,5922.80 over the life of the lease.

I think I would be looking at a 3rd party lease, if I were looking at a new 3 right now ..........

Dennis

stame22 · May 2005

Topgun,

The person that told me about putting down extra Security Deposits leased a BMW and was able to lower their MF quite a bit, which in turn cut about $200/mth off of their monthly lease payment. I'm not sure if Nissan allows you to do this, so Car_Man if you have any additional input it would be greatly appreciated.

dwynne · May 2005

As coincidence would have it, I just ran the numbers for leaseshopper and posted them in the message after yours :-)

Now, his dealer marked up the MF to 0.00295 and marked up the acquisition fee to $825 and was charging $399 doc fee. So YOUR BMW dealer may not do this, so your payments would be less.

However, with an "A" score the 3rd party MF is 0.00210 (and maybe less, depending on the lease agent you use) . So you are correct, even though the residual is less - the payment is less because of the MUCH lower MF. The other advantage is at any point in the lease thee buy out (or sell out) amount will be less. And at the end of the lease, you may find the car is worth more than the residual on the 3rd party lease - and could make some extra money selling it rather than turning it in. You would likely have to go through a dealer/broker to do this, but it can be done. I sold my off lease 330i and made a little money on it - even after I paid the broker a "nominal fee" for handling the transaction for me.

Dennis

kd270 · May 2005

iam looking to lease the FX35 for 3 or 2 years now I would want to know which would be better move for me a 3 or 2 year i know that with the 2 year the car depreciates much more, but then again i dont want to be stuck with a 3 year for some reason.. another question is my dealer in ny is willing to go between $450 to $500 on the 3 year with the sports and the touring package, and 499 on the 2 year and that is with 12K per year. now what numbers should I look for meaning.. I think iam getting a good deal but what could be the hidden charges or the "hidden" things that I should look for? plus if I want to buy the car when the lease is over what should I do? this dealer wants me to pay first months payment plus the security dep and the dmv fees and the bank fee which should equal to about $2000. Any feedback would be appreciated. thanks

cagorm · May 2005

Carman - Should I be expecting to see a money factor of .01225 and a residual of 60% on a 3 year/36k lease on a 2005 330i? Thanks for your help.

dwynne · May 2005

0.00225 is the "buy rate" on the 330i, but I think the residual is 52% for a 36/36k lease.

Don't forget that BMW is giving the dealer $4,200 in "marketing support" to clear out the remaining 05 330i sedans. So when you are negotiating, start at invoice - $4,200 and not at invoice.

Dennis

ravisudhir · May 2005

Carman Host:

I just went to the dealership and got some quotes. The best I got is $2000 off MSRP on an ordered car. This is both for the M45 sport and M45 regular. I do not need one until Aug, and he said he cannot lock in any lease rates except the selling price. The money factor for May went up but apparently it depends on thefigures in the month I take delivery. This seems to be in contrast to the BMW 545 sport. I negotiated a deal for $ 3500 off MSRP and with the selling price of 60,700, I was getting monthly payment of $ 835 for the same terms except for 36 months. They will apparently lock in this rate when I order the car.

Terms: zero down, 39 months, 15K/yr, 7% sales tax rolled into the cap cost (Ohio law requires it this way, apparently; unless I pay it upfront).

Who's selling M45 at invoice? Can I lease them from out of state?

Thanks.

Ravi

teamboulton · May 2005

Thank you for your help, Car_man. But, where am I going wrong? Is the dealer inflating the money factor on me? Purchase price is good, but he is quoting me at $457 per month vs. your calculation of $414. Lease does inlcude 6% tax and gap insurance, but seems like he is trying to pull something....???

a6_to_m35 · May 2005

There is NOBODY yet selling this vehicle at invoice. I negotiated 2500 off MSRP on my M35x that is to be delivered Saturday. But that is pretty much the best I have seen.

Perhaps in the quiet summer months you will get close if you choose a non-desireable color combo--but this vehicle will be in relatively short supply till then.

jcc3 · May 2005

Can someone tell me what the advantage/disadvantage is of a 39 month lease vs. a 36 month lease.

davidd3 · May 2005

Dennis,

Thanks. I will explore the 3rd party leasing option.

David D

fstlrnr · May 2005

Thanks for the help Car Man. Unfortunately, after all of my work and your help on the Titan deal, I have been overruled by the boss (wife) and will be settling on a nice lease for an 05 Accord EX and following your advice of going with $0 down.

Go figure.....

If you could be so kind as to do one more evaluation for me, I haven't done all of the research on the Accord yet, but how does their starting point sound to you?

05 Accord EX
MSRP: $27,365
Price: apparently around $25K by my calculations
36 months, 15K miles per year, $0 down, $0 due at signing, $399 per month (w/o tax)

Thanks again for all of your help- this really is a phenominal forum!

dwynne · May 2005

It spreads the pay back of the depreciation out over 3 more months, so should result in a lower payment.

If you lease a $40k car with a $20k residual for 36 months. Each month you are paying $20,000 / 36 or $555.56 (plus interest) just for the depreciation . For a 39 month lease, with all else being the same, each payment is $20,000 / 39 or $512.92 .

With most 3rd party lease banks, 39 month leases (or 51 compared to a 48 month lease) will have the same money factor and the same residual AND the same mileage limit. So the lease will be 36/36k = 1,000 miles per month while the 39/36k lease will net you 923 miles per month.

With some of the captive lease banks (like Infiniti) they will allow 1,000 miles for each month of lease so it is 39/39k . Some banks will then have a lower residual VS the 36/36k number to account for the extra miles, others do not. If they keep the same residual and allow 39k for the lease term, then that can be a "sweet spot" in the lease offerings - when looking at payments.

Even with a 3rd party lease, if you can keep your miles in 39 months to 36k - you can save on the payment with a 39 month lease.

Note that since you are paying interest on the lease, the actual sum of payments for the 39 month lease will likely be more than the sum of payments for the 36 month lease. So you do get a lower payment and get to keep the car 3 more month, but your total pay out will be more.

Dennis

kyfdx · May 2005

Some captive finance companies have much better deals on 39 month leases than 36 month leases... There is probably some sound financial reason for this, but I won't speculate on what that is..

The two makes (related) that usually have 39 month "specials" are Infiniti and Nissan... Other banks offer the 39 month leases, but they don't seem to be any better than the 36 month terms..

Rule of thumb: If the residual is 1% or 2% less for 39mo. vs. 36mo., then the 39 month term is usually the better deal.. At 3% less, it is a wash... and at 4% or more less, the 36 month term is almost always better... This assumes that the money factors are similar (and they usually are).

Caveat: If the car only has a 36 month warranty, you will be driving without a warranty for the last 3 months of the lease.

Caveat 2: Some private banks do 39mo./36K leases... If that works for you, fine, but you are getting 3000 less total miles than a typical 12K/yr. lease.

regards,
kyfdx

jmcd0 · May 2005

Car Man,

This is a follow up question to a response you gave me a couple weeks ago...

I am moving to New York in a few weeks and wanted to lease a car in MA before I move so that I don't have to pay the NY vicarious liability charges (because of vicarious liability I don't think you can even lease a Subaru in NY). However, will I have to pay anything towards vicarious liability coverage when I do move? Will the leasing company give me any trouble if I want to move to NY state, or are out-of-state leasing companies not held to the NY vicarious liability charges, even if the car they are loaning is being used by someone in NY?

Thanks!

cyman14 · May 2005

Interesting info, Car_man. I'm also interested in the Saab 9-3 Arc. What are the current residual % and MF for a 36 month lease. Also do the $3500 total lease incentives apply to the 36 month lease as well. Thanks!

jcc3 · May 2005

Thanks for all the great info! dwynne (Thanks to kyfdx also)!
What about the cost re-registering the car at the end of the third year (36th month) and having it for only 3 more months after that?

jcc3

Jaynj1 · May 2005

Thanks car_man,

I would like to lease it for 42 months. I would need about 12 K/year. Would it matter if I lease it for 39 months vs 48 months?

Thanks again.

ej1111 · May 2005

can you help me with the residual and money factor on the Mazda3 sp23 5 door in NC? Thank you!

kdg · May 2005

Hi Car Man!

Thanks for getting back to me. The MSRP for the MDX Touring model that I am looking to buy is: $39,725 + $570 destination for grand total of $40,295. Let me know if you still think I'm getting a good deal.

Thanks so much for your help!

c0v3rr1d3 · May 2005

in response to mvs1 post just a few questions for u. I'm trying to debate buying a new 05 camry se or leasing an 05.5 a4 quattro. was wondering if u can give me any insight about your own experience. I had a very negative experience with one dealership in CT and will be going to another in RI and possible talking with another in CT depending on how my expericne goes with the RI dealership. Also did u lease or buy your A4? Thanks Michael

andy2812 · May 2005

While it's true that you have to pay to re-register the car for the fourth year while only having it for 3 months, if you lease or buy another car at the end of 39 months, some states (I know NY does this) let you transfer the registration to the new car for a small fee, thereby saving you the first years registration fee on the new car. One other added cost you failed to mention is the inspection fee for the fourth year.

andre1 · May 2005

CarMan,
With the 2006 version coming out, Cadillac is starting to offer good discounts on the 2005 CTS-V. Therefore, I need the residuals and money factors for the following for the month of May for the 2005 Cadillac CTS-V. Thanks again!

36 month/12K miles per year
36 month/15K miles per year
39 month/12K miles per year
39 month/15K miles per year

kd270 · May 2005

heres what i got on a quote for the fx35awd with 12k per year for 3 years incl the touring and the sports $505 incl Tax Is this a good price??? and for the 2 year i got $525 now the money factor and the Ris value for this car is 63% and .0019 now heres where I need Your help plug those #'s in there and Tell me if Iam getting a Deal. Thanks

danf1 · May 2005

Gmac does not offer 39 month leases. at 36 months the residual is 53% for 15k and 56% for 12k miles. They also have 2500 cap cost rebates and until the end of this month 1000 hot button rebate. They don't use money factors, but interest rate will vary from 3.95 to 4.95.

dwynne · May 2005

Good point, but when you turn it in take your plate with you and get it transferred onto your new lease or purchased car. This should work in most states, no problem.

This assumes you didn't transfer your current plate to the new lease car when you got it. If you did, then the registration and lease are out of sync anyway.

If you live in a state that charges personal property lax on lease cars, then that may remove any benefit of the 39 month lease.

Dennis

tcg · May 2005

Hi, I want to lease a 2006 330i BMW. But, since they just came out (as you probably already know), selling prices are just about at MSRP. Do you think it's better to wait for all the hype to die down?

Also, my current car is purchased and I have equity in the car. If I get into a lease, is it a bad idea to trade the car in and put the money towards the lease? I know it's better to put NO money down on a lease but I'm wondering if the hassle of selling the car on my own, transferring the title, etc. is worth it.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

michael10 · May 2005

Car man, can you please supply me with the current money factor and residual on a loaded - Elite package w/ nav 05 lincoln Aviator? 19,500 year - 39 months. Thanks in advance.

reechz · May 2005

I was quoted $245 (includes tax, bank fees, etc) per month for a lease for 36 months on a base Honda Accord LX-
what would be the residual on that?
Am I getting ripped off?

thanks in advance.

kyfdx · May 2005

In my state, personal property tax is charged on any car that you have on January 1st of that year.. So, assuming you always have a car, then 39 vs. 36 doesn't make any difference.. You always pay for one car, each year. Registration costs are minimal here (<$25), so that doesn't hurt either..

Now, if I had to pay an extra $300-$500 in registration and/or property taxes to lease 39 months vs. 36 months, then I would never consider it...

regards,
kyfdx

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