Dodge Dakota: Problems & Solutions

biglucy · May 2001

In our family, Norm stands for - he's Not Our Relative... Man! I can't tell you what BOB stands for, but it has something to do with the female body!

bobs5 · May 2001

NORM...Nobody Out Races Me

mopar67 · May 2001

Well, its been four warm days here in PA and so far the idle is good. WIll keep you posted on future idle issues.

ahasher · May 2001

mopar67.. I am happy to hear your rig is running good, and hope the problem does not reoccur. get this.. I went to my service manager to talk about the idle and show him my TSB reference. MORE blank stares. He says my TSB for the jeep is no good and has nothing to do with a Dakota. he wants it overnight to verify the cold start problem, then se what they can do.. SHEESH! i will give then the benefit of the doubt and leave it overnight.. then see what I am told. With no hard copy references for the DAKOTA 4.7, I have to wait and see. Then see if I need a new dealer (that actually CARES). However, my idle problem has subsided considerably with the warm weather.. so I have time to work it out. Again, mopar67.. I appreciate your keeping me(us) updated with your progress..

mopar67 · May 2001

By the way, where is bpeebles?

scottieeck · May 2001

geez Bob, I hope Karen isn't listening in! Or did you mean the curves in the road?
NORM: National OrdeR of Moose (there might even be such a thing!)
I believe Bruce said he was going to Malaysia yet again (Iwonder what kind of mileage he gets on those trips).
scottie

tuvtest · May 2001

Scottieeck you were close, but I think it is

National Order of Real Mopars

bpeebles · May 2001

(mopar67) I am here... Just logged on for a bit to see what had been going on here.

Once I catch up on the 500 or so Dakota appends... I will be heading out on a well earned vacation. (Fly fishing for native brookies out in the boonies)

My Dakota will be getting the 20K mile service this Friday. I hand washed/waxed it thisafternoon using Zymol (true carnuba Wax... no petroleum products on my precious paint!)

mopar67 · May 2001

unless you were looking for something in particular.
Idle problem seems to be solved, it took a third update to the PCM to fix it. Idles 625-650 in drive(approximately BIGLUCY! ha ha)
No more stalls on cold starts. That's a plus. Idle is much more steady and how should I say, "solid". Maybe the 4.7 ain't so bad after all.
Still working on the warped rotors and even more warped drums.
45RFE is well, a mystery. TOday it shifted fine no matter how hard (or easy) I drove it.
Best news is I am no longer going to track you down and "borrow" your PCM. Since mine works now, I won't need yours. Thanks anyway!
But your rotors.........................

bpeebles · May 2001

Thanks for the info... I now have about 10 other Dakota forums to review.

Are you saying they applied the SAME PCM flash 3x or are you saying that there has been 3 distinct updates issued by DC? (each being different)

If there are flash updates this often... I think I will wait another year or so until things settle out a bit. My 2000 Dak is running quite well and I have one of the first ones sold in 1999. The more miles I put on this 4.7L V8 Hemi... the smoother it gets.

mopar67 · May 2001

From what I understand, this was three different updates to the PCM. Kinda like "hey we don't really know if this will work but we might get lucky this time" I suppose. Heck I don't know. I just wish DC did a better job with QA and testing before running it out of the factory.
At any rate, it runs good now even if the idle is a little quick. I'll live with that anyday instead of stalling etc.
I never was a fan of Detroit's first efforts on new designs which is why I sorta cringed when I learned that the v-8 in my Dakota was not the tried and true 318. I went for it because I knew it had already found time under the hood of the Grand Cherokee so I figured whatever bugs are there must have been solved. SO I thought. Other than the PCM issue, it really does run ok. I'll get back to you in a few years and 100K later and we can compare notes and stuff. Maybe the 45RFE will have even learned to shift by then right?
What kind of oil and filter do you use?

ahasher · May 2001

Ok, time to use the "OK, dumb question follows" look, but what is the general difference between the 3.92 and 3.55 rear-end gears. Referring to towing (light pop-ups), commuting and general driving, why would someone choose the 3.55 over the 3.92 or the reverse. I highway commute over 75% of my mileage and havent towed yet, altho as I mentioned recently, I plan on towing a pop-up to the smokies soon. When I was under my rig, I saw the tag on the bell labeled 3.5.. so I dug around and discovered I had the 3.55 not the 3.9 as the salesman told me (yes, not a major mechanic here.. nor a trailer owner at the time of purchase, so I did not verify his info).

scottieeck · May 2001

Norm, It sure must be nice to have a name you can anagram into something neat. All I can come up with is . . . Stays Confused Over That Technical Internet Eternally.
Drive safely.
scottie

urban3 · May 2001

I'm certainly not an expert either, but here's what I've been told as part of research prior to purchase.

3.55 less low end power, better gas mileage.
3.92 more low end power, less gas mileage, better for towing.

Salesman said there wasn't really any difference in gas mileage, that 4x2 vs. 4x4 was a bigger factor in MPG.

As I said, just what I've heard.

namfflow · May 2001

If you are not going to be doing heavy towing I wouldn't worry about having the 3.55 or the 3.92 rear. For doing a lot of highway driving you are probably better off with the 3.55. It will give a little better gas mileage as the engine revs will be a little lower. The way the numbers work in the rear is the axle turns 3.55 (or 3.92) times for each time the wheels turn once.

The pop up trailers usually don't have a high weight factor so I don't think you'll have any problems with the 3.55.

The advantage of ther 3.92 is you get more power to the ground quicker. I like it because I'm a lead foot. I have a 5.2 with 3.55 in one Dakota and 4.7 and 3.92 in the other. Can notice a slight improvement in acceleration in the 3.92 and notice it eats up more gas. Also if towing massive weight the lower gears (3.92) help give you the most torque your vehicle can deliver (without modifications)

ahasher · May 2001

urban3 and namfflow...sounds like the 3.55 fits my long term driving habits quite well. I will be towing rarely, commuting always and using the quad for hauling people and yard/home stuff. And considering the price of gas lately.. No complaints there either. And namfflow, since the 4.7 has the smooth overall power we all like, I can only imagine you enjoying that extra low end power :-)
Thanks again for the info... I feel much better now

bnc · May 2001

Ok, I am a bit confused. Early on I remember reading that the 'roar' that heard on my 01' quad was the torque converter sliping until it warmed up, this made sense to me as the truck is not as responsive and sluggish when the roar is heard, usually a couple blocks and when first driven for the day. It seems to be slightly longer when the mornings are cooler or downright cold -10...
Now I am reading that the fan clutch is slipping and this is the cause of the roar. I think these are two unrelated issues, one when it is hot at the fan kicks in when a thermal condition is detected and the other is the converter slipping till it warms up.. Are either of these issues anything that should be of a concern? My truck has done this since new. now 5600 miles.
Thanks
Brett

bookitty · May 2001

Norm who?

mopar67 · May 2001

"It seems to be slightly longer when the mornings are cooler or downright cold -10... " Your quote.That roar is your fan clutch due to the viscous coupling fluid being thicker (more viscous) when cold. As it warms up, the noise goes away. Why? The fluid thins out somewhat and the viscous coupling disengages until it senses additional heat at that time it will re engage Trust me, if your converter was "slipping" you'd have a lot more than a roar going on.
Here's comfort for you: With 15K on my 4.7 my fan clutch almost ALWAYS roars for the first 1/4 mile or so then calms down. I don't hear it again until I shut off the motor after which the heat buildup makes it kick in again.
Its when I DON'T hear the roar is when I get a little nervous. I learned over the years with viscous fan drives that a little noise is reassuring that the fan drive is simply doing its job.
One solution I discovered is to turn up the radio. Or I also hold my coffee cup off my lap when my 45RFE shifts from second to third. That takes my mind off the fan clutch roar, if only for a second.

bnc · May 2001

Mopar67, Thanks for the explanantion, makes sense to me. I will pay a bit more attention to it in the next few days regarding the sluggesh feeling I percieve. Am I correct is believing that the fan clutch should not cause a sluggish feeling?
Thanks again
Brett

stnick · May 2001

Your frequent comments about the 45rfe had me wondering. I have noticed for the year I have had my 00 4.7 auto that the 2-3 shift is smooth at light throttle, also fairly smooth at heavy throttle, but in between is when I get the "slip/lurch/jerk" shift. It has been that way since day one, and has not changed yet at 10k miles. Does yours act the same way? Stnick.

skylerk · May 2001

Back when I first got my Dakota and heard that morning "roar" as I pulled out of my driveway, I thought (incorrectly) that there was something wrong with my transmission, so I reacted by easing my foot off the accelerator and I got a "sluggish feeling" due to the actions of my own foot! Maybe that's what's happening to you. Now that I know it's just the fan roaring, I accelerate normally and don't feel any sluggishness.

mopar67, thanks for your excellent description of how the fan clutch works!

skylerk · May 2001

In addition to the good rear end ratio descriptions that you got from urban3 and namfflow, there is also a lot of good rear end ratio information in Dakota FAQ #4:
andy_jordan "Dodge Dakota Owners - FAQs" Jun 27, 2000 12:23pm

mopar67 · May 2001

And I don't know why. Neither does the dealer. The last diagnosis says "transmission functioning as desgined." Ooookay. When it self destructs, I'll have Preston pay the tow bill and then I can go in and say "not functioning as designed, not functioning at all". We'll see I suppose.
Give me back the 727 w/o all the electronic razzmataz. Give me a tranny that shifts properly regardless of what the computer does. Give me a tranny that runs on Dexron and not a specifically expensive dealer item only fluid. Give me a transmission that had a proven record of performance and reliability. Give me a transmission that could take a lot of abuse (like my Cordoba)and still work. Give me a transmission that takes ONE filter, not two.
Better yet, I'll take bpeebles five speed!
maybe chrysler designed this so we would not fall asleep while driving?

cfpappas · May 2001

my quad cab is year 2000,V8, HD package, 4x4, 6800 miles. i washed it yesterday, had the oil changed, wheels aligned, tires rotated.

the check engine light on the dash stays on although the engine seems , sounds and acts normally. what could this be..????

anyone

mopar67 · May 2001

It could be anything. Take it to your friendly Dodge dealer. Mind did that with about the same mileage and it turned out to be defective camshaft reference sensor.

thoffman11 · May 2001

For the second time, the horn has randomly gone off, and sticks on. First time I was getting into the truck. Second time, the truck was simply in the parking lot. I have no alarm on the truck. I can turn the horn off my just pressing the horn button like normal. Anyone have any idea what this is?

ahasher · May 2001

Ok.. I finally took my QC into the shop yesterday to have the idle checked (fixed..). I explained my situation, symptoms and thoughts s l o w l y to the rep. I carefully explained when the idle was rough ( not in the garage, in park with the AC on, as I suspect they keep it during these checks). I even asked him what he thought the "normal" idle for the 4.7 should be, in his opinion. He replied, about 600 or 650, in that range. Well my idle is normally hovers around 500 or a bit lower, I explained, so let's see what's up. Thanks to all for the very useful replies to my idle posts...I'll post my results shortly...

kayaker3 · May 2001

Went to Buffalo River in the Arkansas Ozarks this past week on a canoe trip,anyway I had two canoes on top of truck and five days worth of food and beer in back and noticed a pinging noise when going up the hills. I only seem to hear it when it down shifted (automatic). It seem like when it shifted back up to 4th gear it went away. Living in flatland Illinois Ive never noticed it doing that before. 89 octane is what I put in it on the whole trip. Does anyone that lives by hills or mountains notice this with a 4.7?? Or should I have my timing checked. By the way coming home with two boats and 3 guys and gear I got 15mpg.

ahasher · May 2001

Well, my dealer just called.. they found and applied the flash to my PCM to correct the low idle.. I will see if it works (smoother idle) as others have reported. They also are putting the "approved" synthetic in the rear-end so i can tow to the mountains, $135, but I have a service record of the fluid change in case of problems later on. I get it back after work... I miss my QC already...

mopar67 · May 2001

that your dealer had no idea what you were talking about. It sounds to me as if they were hoping you would go away. Good for you that you persisted.
I ended up not having to "borrow" bpeebles PCM. Nearly 2 1/2 weeks after the update, no problems at all with the idle. If anything its a little slow to step down to the 600-625 range but I'll live with that over the stalling. Nor does it drop down to 500-550 like it did before. That was never a problem because it only occurred when motor was up to operating temperature.
But the stall out on cold start is gone.....for now.....god only knows whats next though. This truck of mine is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get next.
Stay tuned....

biglucy · May 2001

Tom, it sounds like the contacts for the horn need adjustment or replacement. You'll have to check BOB for instructions to disassemble the front of the steering wheel... on second thought, if it's your 2000 Dakota, you're still covered under warranty - have the dealer fix it, because you'll have to deal with the airbag also.

ahasher · May 2001

thanks.. I had alot of input from this club, and your input (I dare not forget bookitty's suggestion of the TSB hardcopy which I suprised them with) was particularly helpful before I went in. I prefer a bit of high idle over low to almost stall like you mentioned, besides, I figure the PCM will relearn some more and settle down to a happy compromise anyway. as you say.. stay tuned. :-)

mopar67 · May 2001

And I nominate bpeebles as the patriarch. Who seconds this motion?

mopar67 · May 2001

Figured some of us with automatics might be getting close to fluid and filter change. This I copied and pasted from allpar.com so I make no claim to this knowledge being my work, thoughts, opinions, etc. In other words, I didn't write it.

Jim, the owner of Gene Poon's transmission shop, died of cancer. Jim knew his customers, and had so much of their trust that customers would ask him advice on what new cars to buy. When Gene bought his used Intrepid, he first asked Jim about the status of the 604/Ultradrive. Jim assured him the early problems were solved, and Gene has been happy with his Intrepid since. However, when Jim found that Gene had bought one, he sent a script for customers buying new or used Chryslers. If anyone benefits from this, they can mentally thank Jim...

CONGRATULATIONS, NEW CHRYSLER OWNER!
Some advice on the 4-speed automatic transmission:

This transmission, which is used in virtually ALL Chrysler Corporation [Chrysler, Plymouth, and Dodge] cars and minivans, got a bad reputation early on for poor reliability. The weaknesses in the transmission have been fixed. But there is something which is the OWNER'S responsibility to see to: the proper care and feeding of this transmission.

Observe the "Severe Service" maintenance schedule.

Use, or have your mechanic use, only a QUALITY transmission filter when the transmission is serviced. The best is a genuine Chrysler MOPAR filter. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. Some aftermarket filters, though they fit, are actually Universal types intended to fit several different transmissions. Some have the same filter in boxes with different numbers! In the case of the MOPAR ones, every one is different!

Use, or have your mechanic use, ONLY the correct transmission fluid, which is Chrysler Type 7176. The current version from Chrysler is called 7176+2, and is recommended. Quaker State and Pennzoil make a "7176" fluid which is compatible and equivalent to 7176+2; it is also OK. Some Chrysler owner's manuals say that you can use DEXRON if the 7176 fluid is not available. DO NOT DO IT! [9096 for 2000 and newer cars]

If the 7176 fluid costs more (it does, about 50-60 cents a quart), PAY IT.

If you need to add a pint of fluid and 7176 is not available, drive a few miles to the next place which has it. This will be less harm than using DEXRON.

If a mechanic says he can substitute a little DEXRON and it won't do any harm, LEAVE!

If someone says he can use DEXRON plus an "anti-friction additive" in your Chrysler transmission, LEAVE!

If you have some DEXRON lying around from your old car, give it away to some friend with a GM or late Ford car.

If somebody puts DEXRON in, take it to a shop which uses 7176, and have them drain the ENTIRE transmission, and refill with 7176. This will cost about $160.00.

WHY? The friction characteristics of DEXRON are different from 7176. It is a "grabbier" fluid. The Chrysler transmission has an electronic system which continuously senses the behavior of the transmission and regulates shifts accordingly. If DEXRON is used, the clutches inside the transmission will "grab", and the electronic controls, which sample the operation of the transmission about 140-180 times a second, will let up on the clutches. The clutches will then slip excessively, the transmission will try to tighten up on them, and due to the characteristics of DEXRON, they will again grab. This will occur at the 140-180 times per second rate, and the transmission will have a shuddering feel to the shifting. This is also very hard on the clutches, and they will have a short life. The cost to overhaul one of these transmissions is about $1200-$1400 on a front-drive car, so you DO NOT want to shorten its life.

There is NO UNIVERSAL TRANSMISSION FLUID. DO NOT USE DEXRON!

bookitty · May 2001

I sincerely second the motion. A brighter and more astute guy one couldn't find.

Bookitty

mopar67 · May 2001

the Dodge Dakota maintenance forum. May you rule with dignity and firmness, may your PCM never fail you in the dark of night, may you always shift smoothly (no gear clash), and may your paint job always look good.
For you bookitty, I appoint you the patriarch-at-large. For you have shown us compassion, honesty, and ferver seldom matched by any other mortal being earthly or otherwise. May your dakota be as faithful to you as you have been to us.
For ahahser and myself, we will be court jesters.
May our idles be good and smooth and never stall.
May our headlights always be aimed and always on during rain or snow. For the automatic crowd, may our 45RFE shift firmly but never harshly, may the TCM do its job as we diligently do our job with neither fear nor favor.
May your rotors stay straight and true never a chatter or complaint be heard.

Three cheers for bpeebles!
Hooray!
Hooray!
Hooray!

ahasher · May 2001

I, who have gained wisdom and technical fixes, wholeheartedly support the new patriarch.... armed with his advice, to the service bay I did head, no intention of being nice. Now my ride runs smooth and sure.. with no hint of a stutter or rumble.. to his knowledge I am humble.. So, since I have fussed much over my idle problem which is no more, I do like the idea of the jester position mopar67 has nominated us for.

(ok, ok, I only got only a B+ in English in college)

mopar67 · May 2001

me.
Maybe that's why I stuck to Social Studies?
But the rhyme and iambic parameter is good ahahser therefore you go to the head of the class.
Wonder what bpeebles will think of all this?
Maybe midlife crisis is setting in and I don't know it. Or now that I can actually start my Dakota in the morning and drive away to work, I have more time on my hands.

ahasher · May 2001

so I will add something. Post service evaluation is great.. the 4.7 is smooth and idles great in all conditions. I have the TSB numbers on my service receipt (however I left it at home in my QC files) but I wil post them shortly. Oddly, the TSB refrence is NOT the one I had researched initially. It's a jesters life in the green quad :-)

mopar67 · May 2001

Only question I have, will the fix for me and ahasher work this winter or is it a "summer" only fix?
We jesters eagerly await the forthcoming environment for this.

pjm7 · May 2001

HAS ANYONE HAVE OR HAD THIS PROBLEM OR MAYBE ITS' NOT A PROBLEM ? MY NEW DAKOTA WITH 900 MILES 3.9 V6 RUNS SLIGHTLY ROUGH BETWEEN 800 AND 1100 PM,HOWEVER IT IDLES SMOOTH AT 600-650. QUESTION TWO, I OCCASIONALLY GET THAT "ROTTEN EGG" CATALYTIC CONVERTER SMELL IS THIS NORMAL. PLEASE ADVISE !!

ahasher · May 2001

I hope it is not related to the temprature either. I have noticed, however, that even tho my idle problem was noticeably less with the warm weather, I could still tell it was rough, and hovering at or below approx 500 RPM. However, time will tell..

mopar67 · May 2001

here is diagnosis>>>>>>NEW DRUMS needed. On order due in two days, service with a smile and off I go until oh 8-10K and then I'll be back and then the process repeats itself.
I requested made in usa parts, manager told me he'd do what he could.
At least he took time to drive with me and said Yup, I see what you mean.
Still I think its rotors but he swears up and down they mic'd the rotors and no warpage!
stay tuned....
ahasher, how's your idle? Mine is still OK.

Any is bpeebles still AWOL?
Anybody know his whereabouts? Not much fun here without him.

bmwjoe · May 2001

My neibour has a 2001 Dakota with V6 and auto. He says it shifts eratically, enough to be distracting. The dealer is not giving him any satisfaction and he is thinking of activating the lemon law. Anyone else have this problem? Anyone get it fixed? How?

Drive Safe,

Joe

PS I have a V8 with 5-speed. Shifts fine!

ahasher · May 2001

for those who might benefit from it. A direct quote from my service receipt; and bpeebles or bookitty can interpret the references I'm sure:

CAUSE: FLASH MODULE
08194496 VEHICLE PERFORMANCE; COLD START
HESITATION - TSB 18-08-96
152 W40
1 4275086 LABEL - GENERAL INFORMATION
1 4669020 LABEL - AUTHORIZED SOFTWARE
FC: FM
PART # 4275086

and at the bottom:
26306 (CHK IDLE) FLASH MODULE 08194496 .5 TSB 18-01-01 FLASHED POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE.

I also had the synthetic fluid put in the rear end
since i will be towing soon.. $125.75. overall not bad to have it done for me and a record of the work for warranty purposes. ;-)
And mopar67.. the idle is still running as expected.. "perfect" starts and idle at stops. I love this QC.

tuna48 · May 2001

I just got our 2000 (26,782 miles) back for the 2nd time since we owned it. BOTH times for the brakes ("badly pitted rotors")which were replaced free and the front end ("remove front end sway bar and lube bushings"), also free. I kinda concerned that I might have to replace the rotors every 10-15,000 miles. The dealer had no idea why they were pitted but he had no problem getting an OK from Dodge to replace the rotors. Sounds similar to Mopar67's problems. Can't find any recall on the rotors. And can't get a response from Dodge as to what will happen if I need new rotors in 15,000 miles (out of warranty). Any ideas????? Where is Dodge's customer service after warranty?

mopar67 · May 2001

Hell, I am going back in sometime this week or early next to get drums replaced. Service advisor drove with me plus truck was on a lift and yup, they verified drums are warped big time. SO I do feel pretty good in that they aren't arguing with me saying "they all do that" or "could not duplicate problem" They know it, feel it, and the dial indicator showed it.
Question is, why? I don't tow or haul stuff.
Well the answer lies on the outer rim of the drum in small unassuming letters. MEXICO.
Yes, its good old NAFTA making itself known thousands of miles away from a foundry in Saltillo. Bosch is/was the supplier to Dodge for the braking components on 2000 Dakota and they have several facilities in Mexico.
yeah yeah I know all about the so called high priced union labor and the lousy productivity, the EPA laws, workments comp laws, OSHA regs and all that. Oh yes, forgot to mention the time worn phrase "we gotta be competitive" But with who? YUGO? Funny thing is, my past mopars had domestic sourced brake rotors and drums and isn't it interesting that I never had to monkey around replacing them? Sure the odd pad and brake shoe but thats normal.
SO here I am, on my second set of drums (soon to be anyway) and somewhere in Auburn Hills, a VP is counting the zeros on his bonus check for "holding down development costs".
Meanwhile, the consumer gets the shaft and the Dakota gets a lousy rating on brake durability in my opinion.

namfflow · May 2001

Without going into too much detail as this is not the politics forum nor wanting to stir up too much you know what. NAFTA has been bad for companies and consumers. Several large companies that have set up shop in Mexico looking at cheap labor ($.90 per hr.) have found poor quality to the point of closing these plants and moving back to the USA.

My company will find that out. Yes, thanks to NAFTA I am out of work as of June 29th. I have seen the Mexican built product and it is junk. I wonder how many sales my company will lose?

When it comes to the brake parts. When it comes time to do mine, whether because of warpage or normal wear & tear I will be looking at aftermarket rotors and calipers. It willl cost more but I would much rather have brakes that I know will work. I drive too fast and hard to have wimpy brakes

mopar67 · May 2001

south. That has to be the pits.
I made reference to NAFTA due to the fact that a large degree of lousy quality on certain parts of our vehicles is due to lousy parts from lousy manufacturing entities all over the world. Some of us are simply trying to rationalize why we're having so many problems and you have to look at where this stuff comes from. I can say without reservation, my problems are due to made in mexico parts, the USA sourced stuff (except for the tranny) have performed admirably.
Not that it would matter, but it would be beneficial for Chrysler and the other Big Two to read this and other forums and find out what we customers really think. Isn't that what Toyota and Honda do, listen to customers? Perhaps thats why they sell their wares with small or no rebate at all?
In the meantime, best of luck to you and it tears me up to know there is another victim of a poorly negotiated trade agreement.

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