Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    JDM 2003 2.0GT Sedan 5MT 5EAT
    Length 182.5
    Width 68.1
    Height 56.5
    Wheelbase 105.1
    Track (F/R) 58.9/58.7
    Dry Weight 3102 3168

    USDM 2003 2.5GT Sedan 5MT 4EAT
    Length 184.4
    Width 68.7
    Height 55.7
    Wheelbase 104.3
    Track (F/R) 57.5
    Dry Weight 3365 3420

    USDM 1999 2.5GT 5MT 4EAT
    Length 181.5
    Width 67.5
    Height 55.7
    Wheelbase 103.5
    Track (Front) 57.5
    Track (Rear) 57.3
    Dry Weight 3125 3190

    As you can see, the all-new Legacy is NOT much larger than the current model, which is surprising. I was lead to believe the new model would be larger than the current model, so I assumed it would be Camry/Accord/Altima in size. Not so, in fact, not even close...

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Are the current EJ25s also being imported from Japan? I thought the Legacy was pretty much built all in Indiana.

    I'm going to guess that the US spec Legacy is also wider again. That seems to be a growing trend among Japanese car manufacturers.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The new Legacy is slightly wider than the outgoing Japanese-spec Legacy, but not as wide as our current Legacy. In Japan the new model has moved into a higher tax bracket, in which width is a big factor.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not really, Bob. Perhaps because there are so many Europeans, there tends to be few big trucks, there are mostly cars. Lots of luxury makes, but those tend to be 3- and 5-series Bimmers and smaller Benzes.

    The Cayenne is so "in your face" big and flaunts wealth, I'd really expect a little (OK, a lot) more discretion from someone working for a non-profit.

    -juice
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    I looked at the "content" stickers on several '03 Bajas, L-SEs and Outbacks and they all had engine & trans sourced from Japan. I thought I looked at an H6 but maybe not. IIRC, the content sticker was 50% US & Canada , 45% Japan, the unaccounted for 5% is elsewhere.

    I was sure that an article I read regarding the SIA engine plant said that they produced 2.5's.

    DaveM
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm sure they do. Maybe the design and engineering came from Japan, so they label it that way.

    I recall reading that even twins like the Matrix and Vibe would be labeled with different numbers in terms of content because of ownership. A loophole changes that for twin cars like those two, but it says a lot about how accurate the data is.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I realize the USDM bumpers may be different than JDM, but for now I'm digging that 250lb weight loss!

    Sign me up for a steel gray mica 2006 Legacy H6.

    -Colin
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    you're signed up Colin. Will that be a 5spd, 6 spd or 5EAT? BTW, I'll need a $500 deposit. ;-)

    DaveM

    P.S. I think I'll sign up for an '06 or '07 wagon w/ 2.5 LPT & 5EAT sport shift.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I'd definitely drive both the 2.5L turbo and the H6... but if it's got AVCS and at least 230HP, I think I'd naturally sway towards the H6.

    -Colin
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I'll take a H6 turbo with 5EAT, please. Wagon, of course. :-)

    Ken
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    Don't know how reliable this source is, as I just stumbled upon it while looking for something else. Seems like a larger 4x4 is in the card for Subaru (possible shared with GM) plus a new Justy too.
    http://www.worldonline.co.za/moto/moto_center_New_bi.615765.html
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3962- 583
  • nematodenematode Member Posts: 448
    Its looks dont bother me. However, I do think that its about 100hp short of interesting based on its curb weight. I thought the VDC was under-powered for a up-market attempt.....The Pacifica is REALLY REALLY REALLY under-powered. A car built with "touring" aspirations should not be slower than the Chevy Venture.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Heck, gimme any JDM model. Even the 2.5l would be fun with 250 fewer lbs.

    Seriously, I felt my Forester was more fun than the OB, and it's 3120 lbs. Under 3k would be plenty fun for a base model.

    -juice
  • larryaklarryak Member Posts: 18
    I recall reading that SOA was building an engine factory in the states, but that it wouldn't be going online until late this year or sometime next year. I think.

    When the '00 Outback was released in the states, Subaru highlighted it's increased width. I suspect most of that was due to the plastic body mouldings they stuck on the Outback. From driver side glass to passenger side glass the distance is within a half inch of my '84 Accord, which is smaller than the current Civic. They really, really need to bump the width up a couple inches over the current car if they want to stay competitive in the US market (IMHO).

    For many years Japanese cars were narrower then US built cars. One reason being that in Japan narrower cars are preferred, due to tax laws and the general lack of space. I don't think Japanese cars sold in the US started getting wider until Honda pioneered new assembly plant procedures in the mid 90's that allowed them to change the width of a car with much less cost than was required previously. I believe that the Honda Accord currently sold in the US is a larger (wider) car then is sold in Europe and some other countries. Honda/Toyota et al are large enough to taylor cars to specific markets. Not sure if Subaru can do the same. Hopefully they can. We will find out soon enough. In the meantime, how about sticking the 5 speed automatic into the 2004 Outback??? (I really dislike the 4sp my '00 has).
  • larryaklarryak Member Posts: 18
    I do love that weight reduction, though... The current model is a real porker for it's size.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Could you pull up the weight figures on the 3rd Gen legacy JDM v. the 4th Gen legacy JDM. That will probably give us a better picture as to how much weight will actually be reduced on the USDM cars. I have a feeling they'll be heavier than their JDM counterparts.

    -mike
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    More B11S pix and info from autoexpress:

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story_main2.php?1&i- d=36845
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    It's been up and running for a year now. :)
    http://www.subaru-isuzu.com/news/release/20020605.pdf

    -Dennis
  • larryaklarryak Member Posts: 18
    OK. They are a little bit farther along then I thought. :-)
    So has anyone actually seen one of these US built engines?

    Even if the weight reduction on the USDM version isn't as dramatic as it appears to be on the JDM version, it can't hurt. Heck, just getting it back down to the pre '00 weight would be a big improvment.
    Is aluminum used in any major body panels on non-USDM Legacy's/Outbacks (current generation)?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    5-speed '03 US Legacy sedan is 3365, according to the brochure. And the all-new model is ~ 3000 IIRC.

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I think the increase in width on the current USDM Legacy over the JDM model is more than just the body cladding. After all, the Lancaster in Japan is basically the Outback -- cladding and all.

    I don't believe the current USDM Legacy uses much aluminum except in the engine block.

    I bet all those cupholders they have to include on the USDM models will tip the scales. ;-)

    Ken
  • beanboybeanboy Member Posts: 442
    Wish Subaru halved the weight savings and made the new Legacy a bit larger. The Mazda6 is in the same boat with the Legacy being smaller than the competition. At least Subaru has AWD...

    -B
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    If the plant has been up and running for a year (next Monday), what are they putting these engines in? I just stopped at the dealer last night and every Baja, L-SE, Outback H4 and Outback H6 have engine = Japan. Are they actually making the engine parts at SIA or shipping the engine parts from Japan and doing the engine assembly at SIA? It must be the later. Note that the parts content sticker mentions that final assembly is not included in the content.

    DaveM
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Mike was looking for a weight comparsion of current JDM vs. new JDM to postulate the current USDM vs. next gen USDM weight loss.

    DaveM
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I don't know what the old JDM Legacy weighed.

    Bob
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    IIRC, the plant was built to handle additional engine production. Haven't the 2.5's been built there for some time now?
    You can probably find some old articles by searching on Google.

    -Dennis
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Interesting to note the Acura TSX and the new Legacy have an identical wheelbase of 105.1." The TSX is also about an 1" wider and longer. The height is about the same IIFC. The TSX weighs in ~ 3200.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cup holders! LOL Ken.

    I've asked for a little more width, too, specifically between the two front seats. Gimme a center console wide enough to rest a sub-notebook on (small laptop), so the kids can watch a DVD. I'm talking maybe 2" more than now, that's all.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/89E1D38F6BA5001- - - 5CA256D3200178A8F

    It's beginning to sound like only turbos will get the 5-speed SportShift automatic. It's also mentioned that Oz will get the Outback in September, and the H-6 may get a 6-speed manual, as well as the 5-speed auto!

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36- 7941
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    H6 would be very appealing with a 6 speed! :-)

    Check out the fitted luggage in the B11S. Looks more like a competitor for Ferrari or Maserati than for Nissan or Mazda.

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    That was already posted in thread 10120. ;-)

    -Dennis
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Bob is apparently having one of those "senior" moment days. ;-)

    DaveM
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    Good link, Bob. Cd's of 0.28 for the sedan and 0.30 for the wagon are excellent. The article also listed dimensions for the Aussie versions:

    Sedan(lxwxh/curb wt.)182.5x68.1x56.1/2932-3175

    Wagon(lxwxh/curb wt.)184.3x68.1x57.9/2976-3219
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah but you still gotta add the 16 cup/bottle/juice holders for the US market. ;-)

    Hmm, but they get a full size spare, so our donut might cancel some of that gain.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Rather than increase the size of the Legacy, how about America slims down as a nation? It would drive down the cost of the vehicle, lower healthcare costs and leave everyone feeling better about themselves. ;-)

    On a related note, I was reading over at Nabisco of some WRX owners not being happy with the newer, wider seats on the MY04. These were also redesigned to better fit the derrière Américain.
     
    Ken
  • wheelz4wheelz4 Member Posts: 569
    Well, it certainly wouldn't hurt if everyone slimmed down a little (stop "super-sizing" those meals!)
    That being said, the Aussie Legacy sedan is 7" shorter, 3.6" narrower and 1.2" lower than the Honda Accord, so it's not going to make a big impression space-wise.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    When can I pick mine up? I want one NOW!!! :(

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    over at nasioc are taking stabs as to what the next Outback and Baja might look like. I like the last Baja sketch a lot!

    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3970- 406#post3970406

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Nice. Although I don't think you can go wrong with the new bodystyle.

    The OB rendering needs to have it's lower half beefed up to mimic plastic cladding.

    Ken
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    posted in that B11S thread... that rear end is AWFUL!

    -Colin
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/news/press/2003/03_05_23b.htm

    http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/news/press/2003/03_05_23a.htm

    http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/news/press/2003/03_05_23.htm
  • mmmsmmms Member Posts: 25
    I just viewed the new Legacy models from Japan. Are they coming here, if they are I can't wait. They have really turned up the juice. I have been searching high and low to find a replacement for my 2001 OB. I hope the Japanese models will make it here especially the GT models. Great job Sube!!
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    see that in japan, the legacy is available in less than 30 days after the unveiling.

    so, i expect this to be unvieled in jan 2004 & be available by Feb 2004.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    did you see this link ?

    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36- 5765
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    • It's interesting to note that every new Legacy has alloy wheels (no steel wheels w/wheelcovers), and the smallest wheel is 16."

    • All but the base model come with 45-section tires (17" & 18"). The base model comes with 55-section tires (16").

    It wouldn't surprise me if US-spec models come with 50-section tires. The Acura TSX comes standard with 215/50x17 tires, and with 17x7 rims; SOA could match that tire/wheel combo.

    I wonder if the Outback (and Baja) would go to 17" rims?

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I am sure all new Legacys will use 16" due to brake clearance.

    -Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    including some boxer diesels from FHI!

    http://www.finegroup.co.kr/newen.pdf

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    on the above PDF, from the same site: On the future of diesel cars in the USA.

    http://www.ricardo.com/mediaCentre/newsArticle.asp?id=114&sec- - - tor=4

    So the PDF clearly shows proof that Subaru is indeed going to build diesel(s). Question: Will they ever come Stateside?

    If this link doesn't work go to: www.ricardo.com and search new technology (I believe).

    Bob
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