Well, SOA did surprise everyone when they first brought over the WRX. I believe magazines were expecting it to cost about $2-3K more than what it really was.
I read that article last night. I think they pegged it right on. They feel the styling is generic but they don't fault Subaru for that. I like the line about whenever Subaru tries to take a styling risk (ala SVX) the car appeals only to a small audience of "equally bizarre engineering enthusiasts".
The all-new Legacy's styling is very safe, and doesn't break any new ground. I think this is the right direction for now, as this product line is Subaru's 'bread-'n-butter' model. Don't want to upset all those Outback customers, which has been Subaru's savior for a number of years.
My take is: (1) the styling is very tasteful, and (2) Subaru fixed/updated all items that needed to be updated. I will take number (2) any day of the week over number (1).
I think the legacy's design is very good ! It just did not appeal to a lot of audience because they were always overshawdowed by extran attention to WRX & Outback & lately forester.
But this turbo & H6 will swing attention to legacy. I am very happy they retained the design, otherwise i might not have bought into new legacy design myself.
When legacy design is not flawed why to mess with it. I think Camry, Accord & Maxima has risked a lot in getting bigger every year & changing design. I was shocked to see how big camry & maxima was one day, there is no way one can get great visibility in it. Even accord does not look so great.... I think it won't be long before these 3 will start scaling back in size etc.
Plus, speaking of altima & maxima, except for powerful engine the quality is junk !
So, with legacy, subs have done the right thing. But for some reason, i am finding this frameless frame suits sedan much better than wagon or OB. Any takers on this ?
I saw it but was too busy to post. Glad you brought it back up.
I see this as a good thing but notice that it's "only" 3.0L. I hope it has AVCS and a reasonable upgrade in output; the existing 212 HP EZ30 certainly would make me choose a 2.5L turbo Legacy instead.
My sense is, because it's an '04 (carryover) model, nothing is new other than the 5-speed. I think SOA wants to test the water to see if it will fly, before offering an upgraded H-6/5-speed for the all-new '05 model.
If it sells, then we'll see a better version for '05. If it doesn't, forgedaboutit.
it's an Outback, and not a Legacy. SOA often internally refers to Outbacks as Legacys. It will probably sneak in just like the cloth-seat H-6 Outback did last spring.
Didn't we have this conversation two years ago? Feels oddly familiar...
In any event, no EZ30 has ever been mated to a 5-speed in a production vehicle, not even in the JDM. It doesn't make sense that they would suddenly do it in the last year of the current Legacy body style. It would be a welcome, but puzzling move by SOA if so.
I highly doubt we'll see it, but the legacy has been getting weird stuff lately. Like in '03 it got the shift-tronic, and no other subies have gotten it... So they could be testing it out in the legacy.
Hmm, I don't think so. Jetta is the Bora in other markets. Polo is smaller.
I remember because they make the Golf in Brazil. VW of Europe wanted them to make the Polo as well, but Brazilians hated the styling (too cute) and begged Piech to let them go at it alone. They did, and they came up with the Gol/Voyage/Parati trio (hatch, sedan, wagon).
But - VW said that was the last time they'd let Brazil have their very own platform, the next one would be a world car.
is smaller than the Golf, it's not a Jetta. It's about the size of the Justy. It's the entry-level VW sold in Europe, so the pricing should be in line with the Justy.
It seems, that for really small cars, like the Justy and Pleo, boxer engines don't make sense. My guess is that: (A) it requires more front overhang, a no-no in micro cars, (B) requires a 2 or 4 cylinder engine (3-cylinders not possible) and (C) may be too expensive to build.
asks a bunch of questions and lists the Legacy as having a choice of 6MT and 5EAT, and the 2.5T is listed at 250 hp, 5.7 seconds to 60 mph for the 6MT, 6.6 seconds to 60 mph for the 5EAT, and the Outback gets the 2.5T also! Statistics are starting to trickle out. Look in the "News and Rumors" page.
Don't get me all excited this early in the morning! 6.6 in an automanual with AWD? That's exactly what I'm looking for! gimme a power seat and I'm in!!
Damn!! I can't remember the name of that "other board". Arrrrggggg!!! I'm sure it will come to me.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'm not a big fan of alpha-numeric names, especially when they get ridiculously long (a la Hyundai's XG350L). So I hope that Subaru sticks with real names. But I certainly hope they don't go with a combination of both. "Subaru Legacy B5X" is just too confusing.
Outback H4 turbo? Too much overlap with the straight Legacy wagon. Keep the turbo in the Legacy and keep the Outback as is with either the non-turbo H4 or H6.
That having been said, a turbo Legacy wagon looks mighty sweet for our next car.
Comments
Ken
My take is: (1) the styling is very tasteful, and (2) Subaru fixed/updated all items that needed to be updated. I will take number (2) any day of the week over number (1).
Bob
But this turbo & H6 will swing attention to legacy. I am very happy they retained the design, otherwise i might not have bought into new legacy design myself.
When legacy design is not flawed why to mess with it. I think Camry, Accord & Maxima has risked a lot in getting bigger every year & changing design. I was shocked to see how big camry & maxima was one day, there is no way one can get great visibility in it. Even accord does not look so great.... I think it won't be long before these 3 will start scaling back in size etc.
Plus, speaking of altima & maxima, except for powerful engine the quality is junk !
So, with legacy, subs have done the right thing. But for some reason, i am finding this frameless frame suits sedan much better than wagon or OB. Any takers on this ?
-mike
http://techinfo.subaru.com/html/ixSearchBu.jsp?model_year=2004&am- p;vehicle_line=Legacy+H6-3.0&publication_type=3&text_keyw- ord=&keyword=
Bob
Jim
-mike
And it's AWD
-mike
rsholland Aug 24, 2003 6:01pm
Tech Service Bulletin > 2004 > Legacy H6-3.0
Online Download
4EAT > 3.0 Liter> AWD
MT5 > 3.0 Liter> AWD
Bob
-Brian
I saw it but was too busy to post. Glad you brought it back up.
I see this as a good thing but notice that it's "only" 3.0L. I hope it has AVCS and a reasonable upgrade in output; the existing 212 HP EZ30 certainly would make me choose a 2.5L turbo Legacy instead.
-Colin
If it sells, then we'll see a better version for '05. If it doesn't, forgedaboutit.
Bob
Why not that concept, what was it? The HM01 or VX01, something like that?
Japan got the Legacy H6, so finally we now will get it. They probably waited until they had a 5 speed Manual ready for it.
It'll be interesting. If it runs on regular fuel it'll be a contender for the wife's next car.
-juice
Bob
-juice
juice -- Japan already had an H6 Legacy with the previous body style but it only offered it with an automatic.
If it's indeed true, I'd like to know how they managed to get a 5MT in there with no flywheel.
Ken
Bob
Bob
-Colin
Colin - I thought they couldn't put a flywheel in there because of space constraints. At least that was their "story" for not offering it in 5MT.
Ken
-Colin
-Dennis
In any event, no EZ30 has ever been mated to a 5-speed in a production vehicle, not even in the JDM. It doesn't make sense that they would suddenly do it in the last year of the current Legacy body style. It would be a welcome, but puzzling move by SOA if so.
Ken
-mike
Time to start hounding dealers for '04 Outback & Legacy brochures...
Bob
Bob
To me it would make sense to bridge the gap by offering a more powerful Legacy 3.0GT for MY2004, though I would have preferred a turbo.
The Justy looks too much like a Ford, at least Brazilian Fords, like the Fiesta.
But that Polo is too cutesy. I still say bring back that mini comcept.
-juice
BTW, Polo is the Jetta. So, expect this to come to US
I remember because they make the Golf in Brazil. VW of Europe wanted them to make the Polo as well, but Brazilians hated the styling (too cute) and begged Piech to let them go at it alone. They did, and they came up with the Gol/Voyage/Parati trio (hatch, sedan, wagon).
But - VW said that was the last time they'd let Brazil have their very own platform, the next one would be a world car.
-juice
Bob
http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=- 19000
If you want info on the upcoming Justy, just(y) go to this Holden site to get the full scoop. Badge-engineering at its best (or worst).
Bob
-juice
Bob
Bob
What about a small diesel boxer 4, though? If Subaru is serious about Europe, they'll have to build something.
-juice
Bob
Jim
I'll take a B5X or whatever they call that black sedan. 6sp MT? Please oh please let it come with a moonroof.
Guess I'll take my name off the XT envy club, for now ;-)
-Brian
Damn!! I can't remember the name of that "other board". Arrrrggggg!!! I'm sure it will come to me.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Outback H4 turbo? Too much overlap with the straight Legacy wagon. Keep the turbo in the Legacy and keep the Outback as is with either the non-turbo H4 or H6.
That having been said, a turbo Legacy wagon looks mighty sweet for our next car.
Jon
Bob (again, wearing his marketing cap)
*scampers off to News and Rumors*
Maybe the H6 will have more than 240hp?
-Brian