Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options

Subaru Crew - Future Models II

1…217218220222223…446

Comments

  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    we've been selling VERY low sulfur fuels in the northern tier (chicago and minneapolis mainly) since 1999. look for the blue planet brand! :)

    but yes-- it is generally true that the industry as a whole lacks the ability to produce it.

    -Colin
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    What killed diesels for me was owning a diesel VW Rabbit.

    TWRX
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Here in the DC area, diesel tends to cost a lot and be of the poor quality. It basically costs the same as premium.

    If you stop at a gas station on I-95 in Georgia, diesel is cheaper than even regular fuel.

    With steady supply and demand, it could potentially carry a price advantage, I guess. In Brazil it costs HALF what the cheapest gasoline costs. Diesels carry much, much better resale values for that reason.

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    but isn't Europe running on a higher quality, cleaner Diesel, which allows them to take advantage of common-rail setups, VVT, ABC123, ETC.? I was under the impression that most of the issues we as Americans associate with diesels from the 70's have been solved in Europe, thanks in larger measure to the diferent fuel..... ???
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,729
    yes, those are the low-sulfer fuels referenced above.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In Europe, yes. In the US it's still being phased in.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    we've been selling premium diesel for a while, too. :) low sulfur, low particulate exhaust, and more.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    "particulate exhaust"

    You mean soot?

    hee hee, I think the PR guys have gotten to you.

    -juice (married to a PR person)
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    errmm... yeah, soot. :)

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I dunno, nowdays I can't tell the difference in "soot" from diesel v. non diesel pickups, only difference is that the Diesels have a massive exhaust pipe and distinct sound.

    As for fuel availability? I guess if you live in the middle of nowhere it's an issue, but anyone who lives near an interstate will have plenty of access to diesel fuel.

    -mike
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://caranddriver.radicalmedia.com/member/carshow/tokyo/index.h- tml#sa

    isn't this old ?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Says 1995... So my guess is yup it's old.

    -mike
  • melish27melish27 Member Posts: 1
    Sorry if this is off on a tangent, but anyone know anything (or know when solid info might be available) about the forthcoming '05 seven-passenger crossover SUV? We currently lease (for business) and love an '03 Forester XS, and plan to sell our other car, a 2000 VW Passat wagon, next spring in order to replace it with something more reliable and roomier (growing kids, and two booster seats in back make it tough for a third passenger there, especially on long trips). We'll be considering the Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander -- but I'd love to put the new Sube in the mix (the superior AWD system and -- presumably -- standard features that are options on the others, to name 2 reasons). I've heard the '05 Legacy is supposed to be out very early in '04. Any word on the crossover? GM is supposed to be involved too -- this doesn't mean it'll be a, well, Subuick, does it?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    C&D, in their latest issue has a writeup on the new Baja turbo. In it states that the "weird" Baja now becomes "powerfully weird" with the addition of the turbo model. After reading that statement I couldn't help but think that with Subaru trying so hard to portray themselves as a maker of "premium" products, words like "weird" constantly being associated with them is really counter-productive. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your perspective, that has been a part of Subaru's legacy from day one. Now it may be coming back to haunt them.

    On one hand, unlike many other Asian carmakers, Subaru products do have personality and character. The problem is that often that personality/character is portrayed in somewhat negative terms. It's almost impossible to read a road test of any Subaru product without seeing words like strange, odd, different and weird being applied to the vehicle at hand. Granted, many automotive editors are guilty of stereotyping, and that hasn't helped either. Afterall, Subarus have been an easy target in the past, so why should their current product line be any different?

    It's funny, if you look at the adjectives used to describe the equally-weird Chevy Avalanche, you will more than likely see: unique, special, creative, ground-breaking; all words with positive attributes. With Subaru, you get words that mean essentially the same, but with an added subtle negative twist to them.

    Is this something Subaru can ever overcome? If Subaru had hit a homerun with the first Baja, instead of getting a base on balls, would this have continued? I'm not sure, but there's no question in my mind the current Baja has made marketing the Subaru name that much tougher for those who have to deal with it on a day-to-day-basis.

    Bob
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    no, baja is the only car-based truck. iam very disappointed with its current looks.

    Assuming the Baja will follow the sleek design of new leg/out, it will be a good hit.

    again, this is sth noone else offers. Avalanche is a PIG & not a car-based truck
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    nothing much new (although I guess I didn't realize that it was a "sportwagon"), but it's becoming more official every day I guess...

    http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=08139813

    Jim
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Per the above article:

    "premium-priced"
    "priced in the mid-$30,000 range"
    "start at the upper end of the Outback and move up"

    What happened to "inexpensive and built to stay that way"?

    They're going to need a base model to get people in the door. They can't sell a $30k Subaru, how are they going to sell a $35k+ Subaru? There better be some nice surprises that justify a mid-$30k price.

    DaveM
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,729
    Priced higher than the Honda Pilot?? I don't think that's gonna fly. So they want to play in MDX and XC90 territory with this? Good luck getting a shopper to consider Subaru to be on par with Volvo and Acura.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Unfortunately I'm not a subscriber to Automotive News, so this is all I have.

    Bob

    Baja disappoints Subaru

    An Outback wagon with a small pickup bed instead of an enclosed cargo area seemed like a good idea to Subaru. But the Japanese company has slashed its U.S. sales forecast for the Baja by 60 percent and put cash on the hood.

    View story [SUB]
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I fully expect that the Baja will not survive into the next iteration of the Legacy. I'll be looking for it in the "Cheap Wheels" section of Collectible Automobile in about 10 years.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It's been reported that a gas-electric hybrid concept will be at the Toyko Motor Show later this month. It's also been rumored that this new crossover may debut the. I wonder if the hybrid concept might be a thinly disguised version of this new crossover?

    It wouldn't surprise one bit if it is. Subaru said that this vehicle will debut their new design direction (B11S?). If that's the case, they most likely would want to "prepare" the public as much as possible ahead of time, to "ease" the pain of adjustment, so to speak.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Note: This is a Babelfish translation, so expect some, uh... "creativity" with the English language. :)

    http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?url=http%3A%2F%- - 2Fwww.fhi.co.jp%2Fnews%2F03_10_12%2F03_10_06b.htm&lp=ja_en&am- p;am- p;tt=url

    Also, it has a dual-range tranny! Hmmm... again...

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Motor = electric motor

    Engine = gas engine

    For more info, see Jon (CT)'s posting over on the "other site."

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I don't necessarily think the Baja hurts Subaru. Having one or two "unique" models in one's lineup strengthens the image that the manufacturer is not just another Honda, Toyota or Nissan as long as it's balanced with attention-getters like the WRX and STi. That's a whole different story than, say Pontiac where pretty much all of it's vehicles including the Aztek simply looks weird.

    In the case of the Baja, I think the issue was with product research. The overall concept is interesting but I wonder how much work went into researching consumer trends and features vs. simply trying to revive an older model. For example, did they look into the payload requirements of such a vehicle? Also, how much investigation went into the market size for the Baja?

    While I'm no fan of the Chevy Avalance, it at the very least still can function like a pickup. With the Baja, you're putting money on a very small segment of customers -- those who live active lifestyles and want the flexibility of a pickup truck, but really don't need the same hauling weight and capacity.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    When Subaru is slashing production 60%, you have to wonder about the market research that went into this project.

    A 60% reduction in production means going from a 20,000 original production to 8,000 (667 per month), which is the neighborhood in which it's been selling since it was introduced. It doesn't sound like they expect much of an improvement, even with the addition of a turbo. Sad...

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    "Weirdly powerful" Baja C&D report I referred to a few posts back.

    Bob

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=16&article- _id=7083&keywords=nl1009thumb2
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Just got my issue of DRIVE in the mail today. In it there's an interview with SOA's "Big Cheese" in which he confirms an Outback turbo for '05.

    If you all recall, a month or so, someone from the "other site" went to a Subie focus group, and he posted some pixs of US-spec '05 Legacy and Outbacks -- all with 2.5 turbos, 5-speed SportShifts or 6-speed manuals. One of those images was of an turbo Outback GT. So, I guess it was indeed the "real deal." That's great news! :)

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    w00t!

    reading checkbook for a 2005 Legacy GT six speed 2.5T... still wouldn't mind a six speed H6, hehe

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It's an outback, turbo isn't gonna help you tow :( or offroad. The outback needs low-end grunt for it's intended purpose, IMHO.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.subaru.co.nz/

    * Dual-range tranny continues on 5-speed manual wagons.
    * Full-size spares standard on all except 18" equipped models.
    * Self-leveling rear suspension on Outback H-6.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I bet the 2.5 turbo Outback will have more low-end grunt than the H-6.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Tell me that the 2.5 turbo outback will have more low-end grunt than the H6 tweaked to about 240hp for boat-ramp pull outs? or slow speed trudging through the pine barrens? Yes off the line un-loaded it probably will be fine, but so is the 2.5 we have now. I dunno, for towing apps you can't beat that real down low power that comes from a 6 or higher displacement motor.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    low end?

    have you driven an Forester XT, paisan? I'm going to guess "no".

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yup, unloaded.

    Now throw a 2500lb boat trailer with about 500-1000lbs of cargo, a wet boat ramp at Lake George, and about a 60+ degree incline and 20 tired boaters waiting for the ramp. My guess is that you'll spin all 4s with a MT Turbo, with an AT turbo you'll push the gas to the floor and watch the torque converter suck up the slack.

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    man oh man.

    Subaru is simply NOT going to provide a vehicle that will fit this towing niche you have a desire for. even if you've got the low-end torque, a car-based unit body chassis is not going to handle the weight. the axles won't, the suspension won't... etc.

    buy something else and leave the rest of us alone! you don't see me hammering on them to produce a 2 seat roadster do ya? ;-)

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'm talking about towing within the specified capacity of 2000-2400lbs. I'm not asking for increased towing capacity as Bob asks for.

    If you want a Legacy GT, I have no problem with a turbo in it. But in the OB, there is no point in having a turbo. They need to keep something different between the 2 cars!

    The OB should be more "heavy duty" so to speak with it's lifted body, "off-road" stance, and "rough and tumble" marketing scheme.

    -mike
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Speaking of the 2.5T, Cobb tuning just finished running an XT on a dyno and guess what -- they also think it's actually producing 235-240HP and 260-265ft-lbs, similar to what Vishnu measured.

    I guess Subaru won't have to do too much to the GT if it were to come with 250HP.

    Ken
  • jimmyp1jimmyp1 Member Posts: 640
    and taking this with a grain of salt as we always do, look at the "optional engine" listed for the 2004 Legacy/Outback...

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=11&article- _id=818&page_number=2&preview=

    Jim
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    But my guess is they could pump it up easily with AVCS etc. I dunno, I guess there is no advantage of the H6 over the turbo for any applications. Sorry for bringing it up.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www3.autoascii.jp/issue/2003/1015/article54446_1.html

    You'll have to go to the "other site" to get a translation. This is an excellent evolution of the B11S theme, and I think will be well recieved.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Subie micro car showing this new front...

    http://response.jp/issue/2003/1015/article54447_1.html

    Bob
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I didn't think it could happen but the grille treatments on both of those concepts look even worse than that on the B11S. Other than that the R1e looks an awful lot like a cross between a Nissan Micra and a Peugeot 206.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    One man's poison, is another's passion...

    I think they look great. This appears to be the direction Subaru is headed.

    Bob
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    But won't the OB also get the revised 6 putting out ~245 hp?

    -Dennis
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Bob: How could they get the new Legacy so right and these so wrong?

    Ed
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    why does it reminds me of the RIP'd T-Bird?...
    The grille could tilt forward some more, and might need larger headlights with less slant.

    -Dave
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Give it a chance. I'm sure production models will look great. I very much look forward to this new direction Subaru is heading.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Check out the improvement in the 2.5 autos gas mileage: + 7.1 mpg!

    http://www.subdriven.com/artman/publish/article_87.shtml
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Well, it looks like the rumor of the new 7-passanger crossover debuting at Tokyo was wrong. So far no info on that model. Still, plenty of interesting Subie stuff.

    Bob
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles