Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Bob
I'd add sub-classes in the mid-size segment. The Accord, Camry, and Altima are big and roomy. Only the Altima is even remotely sporty, and offers a MT with the V6.
The Mazda6 is a lot smaller, more sporting. Altima sort of serves both sides, but material quality is poor so I might even drop it from the list. I think the Legacy will compete here, entry level models at least.
On the high end, it'll compete with the Audi A4 and the Acura TSX, which are also smallish but very sporting. Passat is also sort of soft for this segment.
So I see Legacy competing with the Audi A4, the Acura TSX, and the Mazda6, primarily.
Subaru will soon have a full-size platform and I bet a big sedan will come from that. That's the one that might satisfy you more.
-juice
I hope you're right about the larger platform, Bob and Juice. My wife and I are looking at replacing our Legacy soon, but we're going to wait and see exactly how the baby changes our lives. We know everything will be turned upside down, we just don't know what our vehicle needs will be down the road.
So in that case if you want sporty look at the Legacy GT, A4 Avant, or Mazda6 wagons. If you want comfy check out the Passat wagon, Volvo V50, or Outback.
-juice
Cheers Pat.
-juice
Our weekend trips around the area would be tough, though. We already completely fill the passenger and trunk space of the Legacy with people, dogs, and stuff when we go for an extended stay anywhere. If we only do a few trips a year, I suppose we could rent a larger vehicle for those occasions. Hmmm. Tough descisions. This is why we're going to wait and see what the aftermath is starting in three weeks (from today!)
-Ty
Take the dogs with you! Take the stroller, too. Seriously. Test fit it all.
One very nice thing about the Outback and Forester is that the higher seats make getting in and out easier. You have to bend over on lower cars, climb up to higher trucks. Those two Subies are just right in height.
-juice
To keep this on topic, and speaking of higher seats, what's the raised height like on the '05 Outback? Is it noticeably taller? Subaru certainly is taking a lot of flak for that transition to truck classification. Even Car Talk is giving them a hard time. If Subaru was the only car maker to use the loophole to their advantage, I'd understand the critcism. But since this is a WIDEspread issue across all the makers, I don't think the harsh comments are deserving.
-Ty
~c
Although now that the kids are older (7 and 4) we don't have to haul as much stuff. Our next moves look like a sport wagon and an SUT.
Let me guess, just to make it worse, he did not use a heat gun and he did it in sub-zero temps, right?
Yep, this is a classic example of the kinds of stuff you read on Nabisco that can induce heartburn....
Craig
Cheers Pat.
Bob
The '04 Baja didn't hit dealer's lots until last month, because of the huge stockpiles of '03 models. I wonder if the '04 model will have an ultra-short model year, and that SOA just starts calling these April models '05s, since there are some upgrades (or at least one upgrade)?
Along this same line of thought, I've noticed that '04 Bajas, of any sort, are pretty rare. So maybe, SOA produced only a handful of '04 models, knowing that '05 models will shortly arrive?
Bob
Bob: We have a female light-colored golden named Annie, who's just starting to gray around the face. Our other one is a dark red female named Kita. We adopted each from different families when they were about 6 months old. They're around 5 years old now and still full of energy. Annie has severe hip dysplasia, though, so we keep her on meds and moderate her activity. They're quite a pair in the back seat of any car, typically resting their heads on each other to maximize space and cuteness :-)
And to bring this discussion somewhat back to Subarus, I was playing with a toy self-propelled Subie (compliments of Patti from the Philly show) the other day, and Annie grabbed the toy car and took off! She's got good tastes when it comes to cars!
Bob
But Bob, in the Mayback, Annie could watch satellite TV and have chilled water and heated treats!
Since they're on the same assembly line, my curiosity revolves around whether they can switch platforms on the same line. They might stock pile some Bajas now and not produce any for 2005.
-juice
Standard AWD is still the main differentiator between the mainstream. Without it, Subaru would be head-to-head against the Accords and Camrys. However, AWD is slowly making it's way down to the mainstream so it'll be interesting to see what Subaru comes up with. They're already trying to keep the distance by marketing a "symmetric AWD".
Going slightly OT again, but I'm going to be going to the Volvo Drive event this weekend featuring the new S40. I've heard that they're going to have a 2.5T mated to a 6MT there. Mmmmm.
Ken
Cadillac SRX
Tahoe Z71
New Dodge Durango
Nissan Quest
Mazda MPV
I love the Legacy wagons, but with kids and a dog and all the stuff that goes with it, you run out of space quickly is everone is rolling. The roof top carriers are an idea though, but I can't imagine getting a double stroller + luggage to fit in that.
A couple of sketches have circulated, one yellow one that was heavily based on the B11S concept, and a red one that came from a publication in Japan IIRC. I doubt either is an accurate forecast, though.
We might see a clay model at the NY show, I certainly hope so. I plan on going up just to see it.
-juice
Juice, I believe SIA can build the old-style Baja and the new Legacy. That plant has had the capability to build multiple platforms from the very beginning (remember the former Isuzu production).
Craig
Does the AWD really impact the fuel economy that much?
I know there is added weight, but I've never experienced a significant fuel efficiency drop when I load up my Maxima - I know the engine is larger than it needs to be so that extra weight does not seem to effect the fuel efficiency much, but I think most Subaru's have more power than they really need - I'm trying to figure out why they have no car that gets over 30 mpg HWY - and average is even worse.
Maybe the hybrid will help - do you think they will look at that for their wagons?
Fuel economy is in line or better than other AWD wagons of similar size. Forester actually gets best-in-class mileage for AWD compact SUVs.
The 2.5l is geared pretty short, though, and it's a big displacement 4 cylinder.
-juice
Steve
NOW: Empty nest; mom and dad, one (significantly less active) dog. Family still 600 miles away. Ten year-old wagon. No problems.
NEXT: Another dog and another station wagon! Grandchildren? O my!
Zman
You need the latest Flash player to see the webpage. I didn't at first and couldn't figure out why I kept getting a blank page.
Ken
Cheers Pat.
Bob
forum (not nabisco):
"This is a request for those in the following areas. The Subaru 7 Passenger SUV test mules are supposedly testing in Philadelphia, Lafeyette Ind, and Alaska. I'd love to see a shot get posted here soon"
There were some entries about people keeping an eye out but no pics posted as yet. One poster said it had been shown to Lafayette plant employees.
Steve
Thanks guys, I'm registered for the event on 4/24 at 10:30am. Bob - you want to join? I registered myself plus the wife. We could meet up and try out a V50.
And yes, this is on topic, because generally speaking the suggestions we make for future Subies comes from things that exist somewhere else, very rarely is a feature entirely new.
-juice
juice: I believe the event only features the S40. The V50 is not due out until this summer. However, I have read that the S40 will be there not only with it's 2.4 NA engine (AT and MT) but the 2.5T with AT and 6MT. Sweet!
Ken
Also this Subie version to arrive in the summer of '05, which sounds about right if it debuts at the '05 Detroit show, as expected.
Bob
I think this 7 seater will be perfect for my oldest when she hits 16 in 2 years! Big enough to provide some safety and not sporty enough so she can try hurt herself. Plus it will undoubtedly fit her cello. Incidentally her cello no longer fits my WRX without putting a seat down. Good thing I got the WRX when she still had a 1/4 size or the better half would never have let me buy the WRX! I wonder if a full size will fit in a 05 2.5GT Legacy??? hehehe
Ken: just don't be surprised if the 6MT is a demo ride only, where a pro takes you for a ride. That's how it's usually structured.
Still, it'll be fun to try an S40(R?).
The current 9-7x makes no sense at all, Saab dealers have no idea how to work on trucks. So that makes a lot more sense.
I really wonder though, will the 9-3 and 9-5 move to Subaru platforms later, then?
Lucien had to ditch his sedan due to the size of a cello (and cases o' wine).
-juice
Not from what I've read:
creakid1 "New S40/V50" Feb 22, 2004 6:52am
The 6MT is available for the public to try. The S40R is still not available.
Ken
And from AutoWeek:
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=04802127
Note : sidebar mentioned here is not available on online version of this article.
Bob
There are different ways to make a car meet the federal definition of a light truck, including making the rear seats removable to give a wagon a flat loading floor or raising a vehicle's ground clearance to at least 20 centimeters, or a little less than 8 inches.
Subaru will raise the Outback's height from a minimum of 7.3 inches to as much as 8.7 inches, and will make other adjustments, such as altering the position of the rear bumper, to meet light truck specifications.
I was wondering about the Audi allroad (and Volvo XC70 too), as to whether they are classiffied the same as the new Outback.
Bob
-juice
Greg