I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

sda · December 2021

The back of the maroon fintail would have looked better if they could have incorporated a tail light similar to the sedan that would wrap around onto the tailgate.

stickguy · December 2021

compared to a 1969 Volvo (or even my Duster) that GTO was a land yacht. Over 200" is a full sized barge

andre1969 · December 2021

Believe it or not, from some specs I've seen, even the Duster (or at least the Dart Sport) got up to 200 inches! At least, according to the 1973 Dodge brochure, the Sport was 200", while the Dart was 203.8". They show a drawing of a hardtop coupe, but I'm presuming the sedan was the same length.

Interestingly, the specs also show the fuel tank for '73 at only 16 gallons. And trunk capacity at 14.3 cubic feet for the sedan/hardtop, 15.9 for the Sport. But for '74, they show the trunk at 15.4 for the sedan/hardtop, and 19.8 for the Sport. I know they revised the bumpers in '74, but I couldn't see that making that much of a difference...especially giving the Sport nearly FOUR cubic feet more?! Maybe they changed the way they measured volumes or something?

For the older '67-69 Darts, which had the squared-off rump, for some reason the number 17.3 sticks in my mind, for trunk volume. And I'm pretty sure it had an 18-gallon tank. I wonder what the rationale was for going with a smaller tank? Especially since fuel economy got worse in the 70's, once they started slapping the emissions junk on.

uplanderguy · January 2022

When I was a teenager in the '70's, the only big car we'd had was a new '74 Impala Sport Coupe. I liked it at the time, our nicest car up to that time, but I never really wanted to own, myself, anything bigger than a GM mid-size at the time. The Camaro didn't even interest me then, nor the Corvette. That exterior size (Camaro) with a trunk of something like 6.7 cu. ft.? Come on! I did like the Monza 2+2 and '76 Vegas at the time. In hindsight, I so like the packaging of the '77 big cars and even the '78 mid-sizes, better than what came before. Still could be used practically today I think, although I know some of the sacrifices made in downsizing/weight reduction/cost reduction were arrogant, especially in the mid-size cars.

I've discussed many times how I always wanted a very-specific '78 Malibu Classic coupe, but boy I could enjoy a black, gold pinstripe, no vinyl top, no body side moldings, no bumper guards, '77 Caprice Classic coupe with F41 and those narrow-pinstripe whitewalls with the scooped plastic 'Sport' wheelcovers. I don't believe I ever saw a single one in person like that though.

The only sedan Chevy makes now is the Malibu. I still think it's pleasantly styled in an American way (no climbing taillights, no plasticky square things in the corners of the back bumpers, no instruments in the center of the dash), but come on, it's been out since 2016. It can't be long for this world. And it's got a CVT. I've never driven a CVT car, but I have never heard a positive thing about the experience.

uplanderguy · January 2022

i know I've posted pics of this car before, but I was out at the space trying to critter-ize the Stude for winter storage and took these two new pics. Talk about faded glory, faded youth, whatever. I so wanted one of these when I was a teenager, and two of my friends had new ones, both V8's.

This particular car hasn't moved in inch in at least three years and it looks worse every time I check it out. V8, 4-speed car. The interior pic shows how high the center hump was in the '75 cars. I do like the simple '75 instrument panel which was gone for '76. I can just picture this car new. It has the factory aluminum wheels too, which were pretty rare on the street where I lived.

sda · January 2022

I always liked the H bodies. I tended to prefer the Starfire or Skyhawk with a manual transmission and 231V6. They had about the same power as Chevy’s 267? V8 yet we’re easier to work on, such as spark plug replacement. In retrospect I would prefer a nicely equipped Monza V8. The V8 just sounds so much better and ran smoother than the V6.

stickguy · January 2022

I looked at a Monza back around IIRC 1980. Silver (I remember it seeming like a stainless steel body) hatch with the V8 and 4 speed. Some rust starting already (bottom of doors I think). Mostly was just out of my price range but compared to a 1975 Corolla, is was a combo hot rod/space ship.

that was the one where our mechanic who did the look over for me said don't bring it back for much because the engine had to be jacked up to change the rear plugs (and I assume some other nightmares)

fintail · January 2022

Looks like a Class of 94 graduation tassel - I wonder what the story is. Dash pad looks to be in good shape anyway. As with some cars of the era, cool with louvers:

uplanderguy · January 2022

I remember our dealer got one "Mirage" in. Those were a year or two later. I don't care for the tacked-on stuff but it does fit an image.

The V8 and the V6 were both 110 hp in '75. I do remember the V8 having a throaty sound when you gunned it....I liked it because I wasn't used to sounds like that coming out of a car that small.

I plainly remember the burgundy first one our dealer got in, getting filled up with gas at Brownie's Mobil next door, and the driver revving it and it sort of leaning right-front, then left-rear, when he gased it while sitting still. Have no idea what that meant, but it has stayed with me as looking and sounding cool, LOL.

I did drive a couple of the 1975 V8 cars then, and even then, they struck me as under-braked. We've talked about that here before I think. Lots of play in the pedal before you felt the brakes grab, and then a pretty firm push required, even though they were power brakes.

RE.: The 'jacking up the engine to change plugs'--don't quote me on this, as I'm just not sure, but I think (accent on 'think') that was because of one plug. Although the interval then was 22.5K miles, I always wondered how many V8 Monzas never, ever had that one plug changed, LOL.

uplanderguy · January 2022

Looks like a Class of 94 graduation tassel

I seem to remember the other one was Class of '72, which made me wonder if this was "Dad"'s car.

uplanderguy · January 2022

Found this in the NY Times archive from Jan. 10, 1975. Pretty enlightening/entertaining:

DETROIT, Jan. 9 (AP)—General Motors said today that the entire engine sometimes has to be lifted to change the spark plugs in tune‐ups on its Chevrolet Monza 2‐plus‐2 V‐8.

The plug is very close to the steering column and sometimes the engine has to be lifted as much as one‐half inch in order to remove the plug, a spokesman said.

“It would be easier to jack up the horn button and put whole new car under it,” said one disgruntled Chevrolet dealer service manager who did not want to he identified.

Another service manager was not that pessimistic. The manager, Mike Welch. of Merolis Chevrolet in east Detroit, said: “It's not the easiest thing in the world, but it's not as serious as it's made out. But it's an individual thing. Some people will use it as an excuse to make big money” by charging excessive fees for a tune‐up.

“There's a production variance there,” the General Motors spokesman said, “the cars we checked at the proving ground had enough clearance and the engine did not have to be lifted.”

But on some cars—G.M. does not know how many, the spokesman said—the plug cannot be removed without lifting the engine.

The engine is Chevrolet's 262 V‐8, a small, eight cylinder engine with the same size block as other Chevrolet engines ranging up to 400 cubic inches displacement. Plugs on that car are designed to last at least 22,500 miles.

In its recommended procedure for warranty work, G.M. says that changing plugs cn the engine should take 1.3 hours and that it pays dealers accordingly.

The average time needed to change plugs on a Chevrolet is about 36 to 48 minutes, with other V‐8's taking more than one hour, the spokesman said.

The 1.3 hours for Monza includes time for hoisting the car, loosening the engine mounts from underneath, lifting the engine one‐half inch, removing the No, 3 plug, then reversing the procedure to replace the plug and replacing all other plugs from above.

xwesx · January 2022

Sadly, the roof of my Econoline partially collapsed due to the incredibly heavy snowload of the last couple weeks. Easily fixable, I think, but I'm going to have to be much more careful about snow accumulating on top of it.

uplanderguy · January 2022

Ugh, sorry to hear that.

andre1969 · January 2022

I saw this pop up in a Facebook group this morning...

No context as to what happened, but it does give some insight as to why Bo and Luke Duke preferred the '69 (and sometimes a '68) Charger!

On one hand, I'm sad to see an old car get crashed like this, but the "face" its making is comical. Almost makes me think of some kind of cartoon with talking cars, and this is one of them coming home after a night of under-aged drinking and partying!

andre1969 · January 2022

Sorry to hear about your Econoline, Wwesx. How much snow did you guys get?

fintail · January 2022

The front overhang on 70s Fords can be so long, maybe that disco 'Bird just hit a steep hill at speed. The single retracted headlight cover does give that one a real face.

explorerx4 · January 2022

Looks like it is waking up with a post New Years Eve party hangover.

xwesx · January 2022

andre1969 said:
Sorry to hear about your Econoline, Wwesx. How much snow did you guys get?

Better than 2' over as many weeks, and with at least an inch of ice (freezing rain) mixed in. It was not too far off from concrete as I hacked at it for around an hour to remove just what was on the roof. We spent so much time and energy just trying to keep the driveway clear, I didn't even consider that the weight of it all might be overpowering the vehicle roofs.

In total, we have a solid 3' of snow depth on the ground now, which is fairly unusual for this time of year. Often, we will have that much standing depth by late March, but this year could be much different by that time if we get many more big dumps.

I now have the roof of the van and trailer cleared. I doubt the C20, which is the only other vehicle unused during this period, will have any issues with the weight given the relatively small surface area of the cab and hood.

fintail · January 2022

Do you just pop the roof back out, and it will have a small crease or dent or something? I'd be worried about my house/garage roof with that much snow and ice, but I bet they build them for that in AK.

xwesx said:

andre1969 said:
Sorry to hear about your Econoline, Wwesx. How much snow did you guys get?
Better than 2' over as many weeks, and with at least an inch of ice (freezing rain) mixed in. It was not too far off from concrete as I hacked at it for around an hour to remove just what was on the roof. We spent so much time and energy just trying to keep the driveway clear, I didn't even consider that the weight of it all might be overpowering the vehicle roofs.

In total, we have a solid 3' of snow depth on the ground now, which is fairly unusual for this time of year. Often, we will have that much standing depth by late March, but this year could be much different by that time if we get many more big dumps.

I now have the roof of the van and trailer cleared. I doubt the C20, which is the only other vehicle unused during this period, will have any issues with the weight given the relatively small surface area of the cab and hood.

roadburner · January 2022

xwesx said:
Sadly, the roof of my Econoline partially collapsed due to the incredibly heavy snowload of the last couple weeks. Easily fixable, I think, but I'm going to have to be much more careful about snow accumulating on top of it.

That sucks royally.

xwesx · January 2022

fintail said:
Do you just pop the roof back out, and it will have a small crease or dent or something? I'd be worried about my house/garage roof with that much snow and ice, but I bet they build them for that in AK.

Many folks are worried, for sure! I think the standard here is to build for 50PSF (pounds per square foot) dead load; we are at about half, which isn't anything to worry about, but a normal year would have us at around 30PSF by the end of winter, so we're definitely above normal this year. I'm not worried YET, but I will be if it stacks another 2' or more.

As for the van, I opened up the cargo door and peeked in. It looks like the rear-most roof crossmember buckled a little, so it will need pressing up and probably tack-welding in a couple places to strengthen it. I'm thinking maybe adding some small trussing along the crossmember since it likely lost a lot of integrity. Of course, I need to get a welder first - that's never made it to the top of the tool list, regardless of the fact that it would be incredibly useful to have.

I think the roof sheet metal should be okay. It isn't caved in very far, and it appears to be a fairly smooth arc, so hopefully I can just pop it up and you'd never know from the outside. I guess I'll find out in several months, because there's no way I am going to clear it enough to try to get the cover off and take a close look right now!

explorerx4 · January 2022

@xwesz,
Do you have a roof rake for your house?

xwesx · January 2022

explorerx4 said:
@xwesz,
Do you have a roof rake for your house?

Nope. I will have to get up there if I decide to lighten the load. Which is why I am not even considering it at this point.

texases · January 2022

I "fondly" remember shoveling off my Anchorage roof part of the way through a particularly heavy snow season. Luckily it had a low slope. That stuff was like concrete once it hit the driveway, got to shovel it a second time.

xwesx · January 2022

texases said:
I "fondly" remember shoveling off my Anchorage roof part of the way through a particularly heavy snow season. Luckily it had a low slope. That stuff was like concrete once it hit the driveway, got to shovel it a second time.

Hahah! Yeah, that's a big part of why I don't want to touch it at all.... getting it off the roof is only half (or less) of the total labor involved.

I tend to over-build my structures, so I'm really not worried. The house itself is the most likely to only have a 50PSF dead load rating because we had those manufactured and delivered to the site. I built the others (shed, barn) myself, and I'm confident they are far more stout than strictly necessary.

explorerx4 · January 2022

Shovelling the snow that came off the roof is more work that what originally fell on the ground because it compacts when it hits the ground.
I have a roof hip on the north side of the house that collects a lot of snow, usually just rake that and the first few feet of the garage on the north side together.

sda · January 2022

I saw this at the QT last Saturday.

stickguy · January 2022

Very goofy.

kyfdx · January 2022

I will never move anywhere that I need a roof rake.

stickguy · January 2022

Agreed.

andre1969 · January 2022

We just got about 10-12" of snow this morning, and it came on fast. Temps were actually in the mid-60's yesterday! And early this morning, before sunrise, there was nothing. But by the time the sun was up, it was coming down pretty good. A little after 10, I heard a loud thud and felt the house shake just a bit, and the cat jumped out of his window perch. I had no idea what it was, but when I went downstairs and out into the sunroom, I could see a bunch of Magnolia leaves blocking most of the windows, and knew something wasn't right. A big limb of the tree broke off, and fell down, parallel to that wall, just missing the roof. Some of the limbs were hanging against the gutter, but eventually they popped down, and luckily, no damage done. Guess I'll be out there with the chainsaw once it warms up a bit!

I also learned, for the first time, what a disturbing rumble and shake snow makes when a sheet of it lets loose and slides off the side of a metal roof. At my old place, there was an old workshop building that used to have a metal roof. My grandmom's Uncle Luther built it, ages ago. I have no idea how old it was, but he died in 1960. And my grandmother's cousin, who born in 1924 and lived in the area since she was a young kid, said it had been there as long as she could remember. It was a small building though, about 12x16, and with a roof pitch not nearly as steep. I re-roofed it with a friend, about 12 years ago, but neither of us knew how to do a metal roof, so we redid it with OSB and asphalt roll-out roofing. So, I never really got to experience a huge chunk of snow sliding off like that. But, today, when it let go off the side of a 36x60 garage with a fairly steep slope, I gotta say it was pretty damn disturbing! Wish I'd been able to catch it on video.

Anyway, this is going to sound petty to a lot of you guys in snowier areas, but we haven't had a snow like this, since January 2016!

Oh, and once that Magnolia tree let go, we double-checked to make sure that none of the other vehicles were parked under anything that could damage them if it fell.

ab348 · January 2022

Two of the adjacent houses, one across the street and one behind me, have metal roofs. I can hear the sound when a buildup of snow decides to slide off either of their roofs. I would never have a metal roof for that reason. On one of them, when the buildup lets go it buries their front steps, walkway to their driveway, and their back deck. The other one is a bit better designed and seems to divert most of it to either side of their steps, but still buries the back walk.

xwesx · January 2022

Sounds like incorrect finishing on those metal roofs. They should be set up with snow hooks that prevent the load from letting go all at once like that. I've seen after-effects of such releases where the icy bottom of the snow load sheared screws off panels.

In a more extreme example, the winter after my grandparents had a metal roof put on their house, the snow tore the chimney off when it released. They ended up having all sorts of trouble with water leaks afterward for a few years until they finally got the fix to take. Ultimately, they had a bunch of snow hooks and a 'v'-shaped barrier installed to prevent the problem from recurring.

explorerx4 · January 2022

Don't see these very often and not usually in this good a condition.

stickguy · January 2022

The V8 SS. Might even be a collectible at this point!

uplanderguy · January 2022

Last of a domestic type for sure....large coupe.

I had a rental Grand Prix with that engine in Baltimore once. I remember it seeming pretty snappy.

I kind-of wanted a new '02 Monte Carlo LS, not SS, in that one-year very dark green with very light beige-ish cloth interior. Mid-way through the model year, LS Montes and Impalas started showing up at dealers with the face of the entire aluminum wheel polished--since the 2000 model year, only the smallish center had been polished and the rest of the wheel a painted-look silver or light gray. Also, the 'knights head' Monte emblem up on the C-panel disappeared midway through the year.

I'd be looking at dealers then for a Monte with both the polished wheels and knights head emblem, There did appear to be a slight overlap of those things, LOL.

uplanderguy · January 2022

I spotted one of those last Monte SS's at the local cruise-in I frequent, Bellacino's in Stow, OH, this past summer. It wasn't on the display lot but in the restaurant lot. I took a pic because it was so clean and it had been a good while since I'd seen one. I detest the aftermarket thing at the top of the door glass.

Noticed this one has body-color ground effects but the other one has silver/gray, which is what I seem to remember.

andre1969 · January 2022

I wasn't that crazy about the 2000 Monte Carlo...just something about those headlights and the almost-grilleless look that I didn't care for. But once they started making it look like the Impala up front, I didn't mind it. It wasn't anything that I lusted after, not by a long shot, but if I found a used one at the right price, I wouldn't turn it down.

Now the Grand Prix coupe that was offered from 1997-2003, that one turned me on.

uplanderguy · January 2022

Yeah, I didn't love them, except hey, they're a Monte Carlo, LOL. I did like them better than the '95-99, which I really didn't like at all. I still prefer the Lumina Euro coupe (not the Z34), for styling, better than either.

I had rather forgotten about those Grand Prix coupes. They did look nice.

On the 2000-and-later Montes, I thought they were too big of a car to have a spoiler. You know me, I hate added-on stuff like that. While the SS spoiler did flatten out the semi-Continental-Mark decklid center hump, I prefer it without. I actually saw one new 2002 SS at a dealer that had no spoiler and the window sticker had a credit for that. The brochure said nothing about that so I always figured it had been a parts issue of some sort.

Those cars were way too big for the screaming yellow paint and Dale Earnhardt, etc., editions later IMO. But, the Monte did hang in there until 2007 I'm thinking.

The last Chevys I really liked a lot were the last RWD Montes and Caprice Classics; late eighties and up to '90 for the Caprice. I went along with cars later but the interest was largely gone for me. The era of FWD and rounded styling zoned me out. 'Malaise' to me means '90's and '00's, LOL. Plus, working a lot and travelling then, ill parents, small kids, etc.--priorities began to shift and I started getting more into Studebakers and other old cars by then.

andre1969 · January 2022

My interest in Chevies did pick back up when the Impala was revised for 2014. I actually like them enough, that every once in awhile I'll search the used car listings to see what's around. But then I see how ridiculous the prices are these days, and it puts that thought to bed real quick.

sda · January 2022

I thought the Impala LTZ with the 3.6 Panoroof and Bose was a great car. Received very favorable reviews. The 3.6 which performs nicely is prone to oil burning and timing issues at relatively low miles, so that gives me pause. Very nice car overall. Today’s pricing of most vehicles is obscene.

xwesx · January 2022

andre1969 said:
My interest in Chevies did pick back up when the Impala was revised for 2014. I actually like them enough, that every once in awhile I'll search the used car listings to see what's around. But then I see how ridiculous the prices are these days, and it puts that thought to bed real quick.

I do like the styling of the last Impala. It's a HUGE step up from the prior generation.

fintail · January 2022

I was always amused how the headlights on those turn of the century Montes resembled the Chevy bowtie. Not nearly as amused by the period interior design and materials.

Final run Impala was a nice enough car, yeah. Maybe typical in GM history, they get it right at the very end.

tjc78 · January 2022

@andre1969 said:
I wasn't that crazy about the 2000 Monte Carlo...just something about those headlights and the almost-grilleless look that I didn't care for. But once they started making it look like the Impala up front, I didn't mind it. It wasn't anything that I lusted after, not by a long shot, but if I found a used one at the right price, I wouldn't turn it down.

Now the Grand Prix coupe that was offered from 1997-2003, that one turned me on.

My buddy had a 98 Grand Prix Daytona 500 with the supercharged 3800. It was a very nice car. It was a little quicker than my 2000 Solara SLE with some cool features that my hard loaded Yota didn’t have available.

uplanderguy · January 2022

Funny the talk about the last-gen Impala here. I liked it a lot too; in fact, wished I could've talked the wife into one instead of the 'me too' Equinox, which to me is pretty 'meh'.

Jalopnik has an article online today that in the last quarter of 2021, nine new Impalas were sold. Their headline was something like "The current new-car situation forced nine people to buy Impalas". What a stupid headline.

The car was liked by reviewers, certainly more than the last Taurus.

I liked the Premier model, with the bright strip down the side. I'd have never had more need for 'luxe' than the interior of those.

Consumer Reports (and I've done my share of goofing on them) rated them when first reviewed, as scoring higher than any other car they had ever tested except a Lexus or Tesla, I can't recall which now, but whatever it was was significantly more expensive. I'm pretty sure that last I looked, they still said the Impala was 'Recommended' as a used car.

My guess is that those nine people were probably shopping for a Malibu and saw they could have a nicer, larger car at a good price.

My hunch is that those were at small-town dealers. The two dealers within ten miles of me haven't had a new Impala in at least a year. Hats off to those nine individualists!

I remember a small-town dealer in Centre Hall, PA, looked right out of the forties and still had a neon bowtie electric clock in the window, still had a '97 new Monte Carlo in '99. A fellow in shirt sleeves came out to talk to me, on a Saturday en route home from a Stude swap meet, and told me he was the dealership owner. Last I was by the place, it was an auto parts store.

uplanderguy · January 2022

All this talk reminds me of how nice it used to be to buy new from a small, local dealer that wasn't part of a dealer conglomerate.

ab348 · January 2022

Yesterday in traffic I saw a last-gen Buick Lacrosse in cross-street traffic turning left across my bow. That was a really handsome car, and I liked the styling a bit better than the Impala. I found the interior much nicer too, but of course it was also more expensive although it was the same car under the skin. But what struck me was just how big the one yesterday looked. It seemed to be huge!

But neither the Impala nor the Lacrosse could compare to the Cadillac XTS for me if you were in the market for a very large car. What a nice ride that thing was. The uncommon V-Sport model had a twin-turbo V6 with 410HP, so that would have been the one to get.

ab348 · January 2022

A bit of a curiosity for me - when the latest issue of Hemmings Classic Car arrived here a couple of weeks ago, I was interested to see an article on a '72 Chrysler Newport 4-door HT. It got my attention when I read in the text that it was painted Tawny Gold Metallic, accented with a gold vinyl roof and interior.

When I was a kid Dad bought a new '71 Dodge Monaco 4-door hardtop in that exact color combo. But when I looked at the pictures, the '72 didn't look particularly like what I remembered, at least on the outside. While the shade of gold in the interior looks identical to ours, the paint looks far more green than ours did - it always had a suggestion of green to it, but was more brown than green - and the '72 gold vinyl roof is a completely different shade, as ours matched the paint almost perfectly and was much darker than this, with some metallic sparkle in the vinyl IIRC.

In terms of the paint, I wonder if the camera or the transfer to print format changed the color rendition? Of course, that would not be a factor in how the color is rendered digitally.

stickguy · January 2022

Now that was the 70s!

uplanderguy · January 2022

What I see on my monitor is a color very close to 1972 GM "Golden Brown" (well, that's what Chevy called it anyway). Always one of my favorite '72 GM colors. I think I remember that on '72 Mopars. I can't say I remember anything like it on '71 Mopars but I wasn't a student of those cars.

I'm not really seeing a green tinge, but as I've always thought, who knows what anybody else actually sees when they're looking at a color?

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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