The '08 WRX will have a wheelbase around 103" and the current model has a 99.4" wheelbase. I expect the overall length to be about the same as it is now, meaning less overhangs, but more room for rear seat passengers.
I also expect higher content—and I'm really "hoping" for much improved NVH. My biggest complaint of my '06 WRX Limited wagon—by far— is excessive road noise. That needs to be seriously addressed!
I guess they're just reacting to supply and demand, but given all the shared parts with the Outback, it seems bizarre to me that they'd risk losing any customers at all who want a Legacy wagon, turbo or not.
I'm a little bummed that I have to say I have a Legacy wagon from the last model year of manufacture.
I guess they're just reacting to supply and demand, but given all the shared parts with the Outback, it seems bizarre to me that they'd risk losing any customers at all who want a Legacy wagon, turbo or not.
CONSPIRACY THEORY ALERT - THE FOLLOWING IS COMPLETE CONJECTURE
Perhaps the Legacy and the Outback will now follow different paths in the future? The Legacy could become a more focused sports sedan and the Outback could become even more focused on utility.
Write to them - I just did. It's only if enough people communicate their interest, they may change their attitude. You know how it is now - in the "dealer knows best" world where manual is basically hated (as more risky), all they hear from them "there is no demand for it". Then of course there is a sel-fullfilling prophecy, as there is no supply, no marketing, followed by no demand. I would be even willing to do a special order, just get one in a catalog.
Though it's sad, I understand Subaru's move to separate Legacy from Outback. Perhaps they can appease Legacy wagon owners by offering an Outback "Street" edition or something similar. Keep the Legacy suspension. Probably have to live w/the cladding, though. Or perhaps Subaru feels the new Impreza will fill that niche, since it's going on the Legacy chassis.
I have seen it coming for a long time with half-hearted Legacy wagon improvements and oddball Outback sedans (for instance, no VDC on the 07 GT wagon but the XT wagon gets it??? Yet you can get VDC on a Legacy GT sedan with Nav). I think the Outback will gradually morph into more of a CUV (with strong car roots like it has now) while the Legacy will continue on as a sedan. We might be seeing the seeds of that with the new tall Outback grill. Perhaps it's not surprising -- Subaru is a small company and it probably makes more sense to put their efforts where they get the highest payoff -- sedans in the Legacy line and wagons in the Outback line.
I can tell you that the rumored lack of a Legacy GT wagon for 08, along with the modest changes to the Outback for 08, played a role in my decision to buy an Acura RDX yesterday. While I think the Outback is much better for utility overall, I have been wanting better/sharper on-road handling and more interior room/comfort. Subaru is not offering any of that in a wagon for 08. I got a great offer on my 05 XT, and a sub-invoice deal on the RDX with low financing, and that was enough to finish making my decision (which I have mulled for months, so this wasn't really sudden).
I am not disgruntled with Subaru in any way, but I think they have room to improve the current formula, especially in interior packaging and efficiency. I have $2K in Subaru bucks, still growing, that I will be happy to bring back to the brand if they have a future product that fits the bill. I think they need a roomier Legacy/Outback wagon/CUV with good handling, solid performance, and decent fuel economy to lure me back (unfortunately the Tribeca is a little too big and ponderous for my tastes, looks notwithstanding).
Wow - I just realized now that VDC was only on Legacy sedan w/ Nav, not with "regular" GT Ltd. What's up with that? Now I also see a point of Outbacks being a bit more expensive.
BTW, 2 grand subaru bucks is maximum, as yearly maximum is $500 and they expire afte 4 years.
Congrats on your purchase, Craig! While I'm sorry to see you go as a fellow 05 owner, I think the RDX is a great vehicle and that you got a good deal. Did the Jazzy Aux-in, LED lighting and dome light mod get you the high trade in value? ;-)
Back on topic, I agree with you that the writing has been on the wall with respect to the Legacy wagon and that Subaru needs to make some hard decisions as a small car company. I think Subaru came out generally strong with the 2005 models with the exception of some key features like VDC. Unfortuantely, I don't see them keeping up with the rest of the industry in terms of features.
Needless to say, I'm not sure if my next purchase will be a Subie with no more LGT wagon.
Hey Craig, congrats on the new RDX! I'll be real interested as to how you end up comparing this with your old Outback.
One thing I love about the RDX is the way the cargo cover just lays flat on the cargo floor when not needed. When it's on the floor it looks perfectly natural—as if if it were designed that way, which of course it was. Acura and Honda still lead as masters of details...
Congrats on the purchase, Craig. I've still only seen pre-production models in person, haven't gone to check them out up close because I need something bigger.
As for the 08 updates, I think the Legacy looks slightly better and the Outback looks slightly worse. I say the latter because you can tell it was face-lifted, i.e. not designed that way from a clean sheet.
I don't dislike it, but there wasn't anything wrong with the current model, so if I were shopping for one, I think I'd seek an 07 before they run out. I can understand them wanting to differentiate it more, though.
The Legacy looks great.
Outback sedan sold fewer units than the Baja, so I understand that. But no Legacy wagon? That seems crazy. They sold plenty of those.
Subaru always makes hints at their direction, and in highsight I think the 07 Outback Basic was a hint that this new lower-priced Outback wagon would replace the Legacy wagon.
I also agree with Bob, that the new Outback grille will hint at the new Tribeca. I just hope it's integrated nicely with the overall look.
BTW, 2 grand subaru bucks is maximum, as yearly maximum is $500 and they expire afte 4 years.
My wife and I both get them, since we have two of the Subaru Mastercard accounts. So I imagine we could max out at $4K of coupons. However, we could still only spend $2K on any single vehicle purchase. That doesn't stop us from getting a pair of Subarus, however, or a Subaru and a butt-load of accessories after the sale! I am thinking I will buy some Subaru gear, clothing, etc with the coupons if they expire before we get to use them (at least a couple years away). They can also be used to buy tires through a Subaru dealer using TireRack.
Ken: I am not sure why the OB XT had such high value at CarMax, but it was $3K more than the best trade offer I saw at Acura dealers, and only $500-700 less than I was going to ask for private sale to a coworker. Even more interesting considering the car was in average condition for the miles and age, and needed new tires soon. This has been, by far, the best resale value of any car I have owned. On the flip side, the RDX has all of those features I added to the OB XT as mods, so I can play with some other stuff now! (I do have a bunch of accessories to install this weekend).
Had Subaru offered a more sigificantly refreshed Legacy GT wagon for 08, that probably would have been on my list (remember I was debating between the XT and GT back in 04). But I still would have been looking for VDC and more passenger room. For a vehicle that is smaller in several key dimensions than the Legacy/Outback, the RDX is significantly roomier inside for the driver and passengers. Just seems like a better allocation of space, something Honda has always been good at.
Bob: as I have been looking at the RDX since August, I have a lot of mental notes on how it compares to the XT, and maybe I can do a writeup at some point. The RDX and XT (and Leg GT wagon) are very much in the same category in my mind and share a lot of similarities right down to the turbo-4. I have mixed feelings on the RDX cargo shelf, and kind of prefer the rollup "shade" type cover on the XT for stowage and utility. I can see how the shelf would be hard to deal with if you already had a load in the cargo area and wanted to deploy or stow it. The shade, on the other hand, can't really get trapped by cargo for the most part, and is easy to hide somewhere if it needs to be removed. I also whacked my head on the RDX shelf tonight when loading up my gear for skiing tomorrow, and decided to ditch it for now! (maybe I need to start wearing my ski helmet when loading the car).
Juice: if you get a chance to test drive the RDX, I think you will have fun -- coming from Subarus, there is plenty to observe on the RDX -- good and bad. The RDX is weaker on utility than the Leg/OB wagons, but the handling and overall road feel is quite good -- about the best I have experienced. If I could have a vehicle with the utility of the Outback with the road manners of the RDX, it would be a home run.
Whoa! I'm shocked! But congratulations on the new RDX, you should have a lot of fun with it.
I do wish the Legacy/Outback was more "space-efficient" on the inside. It seems bigger on the outside than the inside, and that's made it a bit of a squeeze for a family of four. Little things, like how small the glovebox is, how small the front side pockets are, no side pockets in the rear doors, a tiny center console (the JDM one helps a bit, but not much). Some of this is due to the vehicle's width, ring structure, etc. but it can be inconvenient at times.
I'd still buy it over a bigger, more family-oriented Camcord, though.
My salesperson had a great recommendation regarding the small glovebox: take the manual out and stow it in one of the cargo compartments. Voila, the manual shelf becomes a CD shelf.
Sounds like you got an excellent deal. I would rather sell to a third party than have to deal with the potential hassle of a private sale at that price difference. Now your entire garage is by Honda Motor Corp, isn't that right?
It is really too bad that Subaru ended up taking out the LGT wagon in 08. I also am left wondering if there will be Subaru with my next purchase too. For us, we are planning on getting a larger vehicle to replace my wife's Jetta so I still forsee a need for a Legacy wagon sized vehicle in our fleet. I'm not particularly interested in the OB and my wife isn't very fond of the Tribeca (she likes the MDX but that's a different topic). Slim pickings right now.
Anyway, I hope you stick around the forums. I'm interested to hear your early impressions of the RDX, perhaps over in the Subaru Crew Cafe. Out of curiosity, was the Forester XT even an consideration?
I am seeing a lot of the Subaru Faithful, slowly moving away from the herd. It's a shame that Subaru can't offer vehicles for those of us who are faithful to the brand, but they don't offer something we need to fit our car-requirements.
All of my Outbacks have been a little tight on the inside to me. I always had the seat all the way back and wished for another inch or so, yet the back seat legroom was already cramped. Plenty of headroom, yet the windshield header was low and directly in my line of sight. Width was OK in the seat, but the driver and passenger end up being close. And I couldn't get the steering wheel in a comfortable position without cutting off the top of the gauges. It was an awkward fit for me at 6'1". It never really dawned on me until I sat in the RDX and it felt so much more roomy and relaxed, despite being small overall! All of my fit issues with the Outback went away.
Ken, yes we seem to have gradually gone from all Subarus to all Honda products, but it wasn't a planned thing (we were Honda/Mazda at one point before phasing in the Subarus 7 years ago). I think I will probably always have some mix of Honda and/or Subaru in the garage, as those are my two favorite brands. Though, I do feel that the Subarus have more of a personality than the Hondas.
I like the new MDX -- the interior is nice, and it rides/handles well. But it's too big for me and too much of an SUV. And I have zero use for a third row seat and no real need for a big V6 or towing capabilities. Plus $40K is out of my comfort zone for a car. If your wife likes the MDX, the RDX is worth a look, especially if you don't need that third row seat. Passenger space is about the same between the two in the first two rows. I feel like the base RDX is a very good value at the $30K street price.
I will definitely stick around. Hopefully I can do an RDX writeup at some point. I took it skiing today and it was fantastic -- which says a lot because I always considered the Outback to be a perfect ski car.
The FXT was not on my list because it feels dated to me at this point, it's tight for passengers, don't like the 4EAT, no VDC (though the new sports cross gets it), and it's missing some of the luxury touches and refinement I had in the OB XT. As much as I like the Forester in general, I think it would have been a step backward from the OB XT. The RDX is more of a sideways move from the OB XT.
I almost think it's the width and packaging efficiency that is the problem on some Subarus. The Outback is longer than the RDX, with a longer wheelbase too. Yet it is notably smaller feeling inside for passengers. The Outback has longer overhangs and a longer hood which eats space for the passenger compartment, and it's about 4" narrower (that's the part inherited from the JDM platform for sure). It all combines to make it feel smaller than similar or smaller vehicles.
It's definitely packaging. My 96 Legacy wagon was pretty cavernous inside, while it was actually slightly smaller on the outside than the current Legacy / OB. Subaru has made each generation Legacy / OB porkier on the outside and smaller on the inside. Not very smart.
After being with Subaru 19 years, I'm looking to get the Lincoln MKZ or MKX, in a few weeks, size is the reason. Subie dealer told me three years ago this was an issue with many buyers, they don't seem to be interested in addressing it. Though the blandness is somewhat improved, it is far from enough. They seem to not want to grow, less so now under Toyota.
Understandable move to want more space. I think Subaru is addressing this finally, but slower than bigger companies could.
Two efforts: Upcoming Impreza will be on the Legacy chassis, so should offer more interior room. B9 Tribeca launched - biggest Subie yet.
And I have to think that with the Impreza growing in size, that Legacy will grow to keep differentiation between models. Remember '08 isn't a major change for Legacy, mostly a refresh.
Maybe by the time you're done with the Lincoln, Subaru will offer something that could bring you back.
I tried the Tribeca when it first came out, I didn't like the visibility, premium gas requirement and less than 18 mpg on top of that. Looks, I could have lived with. The Legacy should have been the first to become larger, it should be the flagship for the brand and reflect that. I know that subaru is small and nitch market, in the time I've been with them I've seen Hyundai, Kia grow and others. I doubt they will get much bigger with Toyota increasing production in subarus' Indiana plant. We shall see what they offer in the future. They are excellent cars but need to upscale as their customers become more affluent, if they want to keep them.
I saw an MKX the other day (it was parked next to my Outback while at the dealer) and was not impressed by the looks at all. Kind of scary actually -- looked like an appliance with fake-wealth styling (best way I can describe it). Not for me. And it's rather heavy -- about 4400 lbs, which is terrible considering it's not very large. Definitely take a look at the Acura RDX -- if you have been a Subaru owner, you will me much more comfortable with an Acura than a Lincoln, I can tell you that. Lincoln/Ford still doesn't cater to my tastes as a typical Japanese import buyer -- they are decidedly old-fashioned American in a number of ways (not the good ones). The interior styling doesn't look much different than what they were pitching in the 80s and 90s.
I wish the RDX could be a consideration. I personally like the interior of the RDX better than the MDX. But, we have two kids and the MDX is my wife's way of not having to get a minivan. :-)
Yes, we would like to have that 3rd row so we can accomodate the grandparents in a pinch. The MDX just seems to be the more athletic of the well appointed 7-passenger utes out there. We also like the styling and the SH-AWD appeals to the gearhead in me.
The price tag is steep but I think it's priced relative to other vehicles in it's class.
Now, I would be fine in a Odyssey Touring model or the like, but my better half just can't warm to the idea (yet).
If you drive one, listen out for road noise. That was my biggest issue with an Ody EX-L we spent about 4 days in when we went to Tucson (our hosts own one). Also, the leather seats are hard.
The last Pilot I test drove also rode stiffly, but they may be better now because that was several model years ago.
This may get ridiculed on this board but I think GM may have a winner on it's hands with the new Lamda platform - the GMC Acadia, Saturn Outlook, and Buick Enclave.
I really like the new MDX as a replacement for our Expedition, but the extra 12" of length on the GM's make for a pretty nice third row experience.
Far from it. I drove an Outlook myself, just this week.
Space is incredible, they really are huge. Probably twice as much room as a Tribeca in the 2nd and 3rd rows.
But...the seats are not very comfy. The 2nd row middle and the entire 3rd row still feel like a penalty box. A roomy one, but still.
Also, visibility was a huge issue for me. Blind spots are huge. I backed in to a curb and the salesman understood - you can't see where you're going.
It's huge, so if you like big, you'll like the Outlook. It felt solid, quick, smooth, quiet. FWD model had some torque steer, and it leaned a bit, but not bad for its size.
If seat comfort isn't high on your priority list, take a close look. But for me, when a vehicle that large only seats 4 adults comfortably, it's a deal killer.
Like most third rows in SUVs, I did not find the MDX third row to be especially hospitable or usable, and continue to think minivans make way more sense for three rows (even the Mazda 5 is pretty slick). And the upshot is that you lose some cargo utility by having the third row capability in an SUV. In all other respects, the new MDX is very nice and handles quite well for the size/weight.
I looked at the Odyssey EX (like it better than the Touring) and thought it was very nice. Almost nice enough to alleviate the minivan stigma! I don't know how to convince a spouse to get one though. Of course, your wife *is* a mother of two so it's not like the minivan will change that a whole lot -- I think she's 99% of the way to being a minivan mom already, whether she knows it or not!
But hey, if we were shopping for similar vehicles and my wife wanted the MDX over a minivan, I would not have a problem with that at all. I would definitely prefer an RDX myself though -- it's got a younger sportier feel (then again, I am the target demographic for the RDX, and about 13 years younger than the typical MDX buyer).
I actually have not driven one yet. I am waiting for some snow here in MN so I can test out the AWD system in both the Acadia and MDX.
I compared them both to the Tribeca. I had never been in a Tribeca before. If you want/need a third row the Tribeca is an absolute joke. I could barely get out of the back once I was in there.
I do not seem to be that picky when it comes to seat comfort. I have never owned a vehicle I consider uncomfortable. I thought the second row of the Acadia when moved all the way back was great. Even with it moved forward to make space in the third row I thought it was quite comfortable. The fact that I am only 5'9" and the tallest in my family may help.
I loved the leather in the MDX. The vehicle has a real quality feel to it, at least compared to my Outback and my wifes Expedition.
My wife loves the Expedition and I hate it, so I suspect she will really like the size of the Acadia (I'm not a Saturn fan).
My wife loved an Expedition we test drove, and I felt the same way you do. Glad I talked her out of that.
The Outlook's 2nd row was too low to the ground and also very thinly padded, probably a compromise to make the seat easier to fold. But that's a pretty big compromise for people that carry kids most of the time, and not cargo.
The Tribeca's seats are far more comfy, this the 2nd row, the one people actually USE most of the time. Especially the center seat, it's a 40/20/40 fold and the 20 part is actually inhabitable.
On the Saturn, it's like you're sitting on a board of wood, no padding, and the backrest is even stiffer. OK for 4 people, but not 5.
I have low expectations for 3rd rows, so as long as a couple of 10 year olds fit, I'm happy.
... we finally got a chance to use my wife's '07 Santa Fe with the third row and it was pretty comfy for the passengers... Subaru missed it with the third row option and Hyundai found a way to do it, without having the 2nd row roll back and forth - and being both similar in size. Of course you can't fit a full size adult in the 3rd row unless you're driving a bus but we're quite happy and alittle shocked too
Comments
Bob
http://cars101.com/
This has been long rumored. Spitz is usually a very good Subie source, so if he says so, most likely it's true.
Bob
They have been doing it to me since '05. First dropped manual wagon GT, now dropping wagon altogether...
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I also expect higher content—and I'm really "hoping" for much improved NVH. My biggest complaint of my '06 WRX Limited wagon—by far— is excessive road noise. That needs to be seriously addressed!
Bob
Subaru's really alienated a core base of its fans with this move.
Does subaru break out the number of Legacy wagons sold? Is it really that low?
Subaru Legacy recorded sales of 84,442 units, of which the Subaru Outback posted 59,262 units for 2006.
That means that only about 30% of those sales were the Legacy, and thats not breaking it down between wagon and sedan.
Mark
Mark
I'm a little bummed that I have to say I have a Legacy wagon from the last model year of manufacture.
CONSPIRACY THEORY ALERT - THE FOLLOWING IS COMPLETE CONJECTURE
Perhaps the Legacy and the Outback will now follow different paths in the future? The Legacy could become a more focused sports sedan and the Outback could become even more focused on utility.
They've got Toyota money now so why not?
John
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I can tell you that the rumored lack of a Legacy GT wagon for 08, along with the modest changes to the Outback for 08, played a role in my decision to buy an Acura RDX yesterday. While I think the Outback is much better for utility overall, I have been wanting better/sharper on-road handling and more interior room/comfort. Subaru is not offering any of that in a wagon for 08. I got a great offer on my 05 XT, and a sub-invoice deal on the RDX with low financing, and that was enough to finish making my decision (which I have mulled for months, so this wasn't really sudden).
I am not disgruntled with Subaru in any way, but I think they have room to improve the current formula, especially in interior packaging and efficiency. I have $2K in Subaru bucks, still growing, that I will be happy to bring back to the brand if they have a future product that fits the bill. I think they need a roomier Legacy/Outback wagon/CUV with good handling, solid performance, and decent fuel economy to lure me back (unfortunately the Tribeca is a little too big and ponderous for my tastes, looks notwithstanding).
Craig
BTW, 2 grand subaru bucks is maximum, as yearly maximum is $500 and they expire afte 4 years.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Back on topic, I agree with you that the writing has been on the wall with respect to the Legacy wagon and that Subaru needs to make some hard decisions as a small car company. I think Subaru came out generally strong with the 2005 models with the exception of some key features like VDC. Unfortuantely, I don't see them keeping up with the rest of the industry in terms of features.
Needless to say, I'm not sure if my next purchase will be a Subie with no more LGT wagon.
Ken
One thing I love about the RDX is the way the cargo cover just lays flat on the cargo floor when not needed. When it's on the floor it looks perfectly natural—as if if it were designed that way, which of course it was. Acura and Honda still lead as masters of details...
Bob
As for the 08 updates, I think the Legacy looks slightly better and the Outback looks slightly worse. I say the latter because you can tell it was face-lifted, i.e. not designed that way from a clean sheet.
I don't dislike it, but there wasn't anything wrong with the current model, so if I were shopping for one, I think I'd seek an 07 before they run out. I can understand them wanting to differentiate it more, though.
The Legacy looks great.
Outback sedan sold fewer units than the Baja, so I understand that. But no Legacy wagon? That seems crazy. They sold plenty of those.
Subaru always makes hints at their direction, and in highsight I think the 07 Outback Basic was a hint that this new lower-priced Outback wagon would replace the Legacy wagon.
I also agree with Bob, that the new Outback grille will hint at the new Tribeca. I just hope it's integrated nicely with the overall look.
-juice
My wife and I both get them, since we have two of the Subaru Mastercard accounts. So I imagine we could max out at $4K of coupons. However, we could still only spend $2K on any single vehicle purchase. That doesn't stop us from getting a pair of Subarus, however, or a Subaru and a butt-load of accessories after the sale! I am thinking I will buy some Subaru gear, clothing, etc with the coupons if they expire before we get to use them (at least a couple years away). They can also be used to buy tires through a Subaru dealer using TireRack.
Ken: I am not sure why the OB XT had such high value at CarMax, but it was $3K more than the best trade offer I saw at Acura dealers, and only $500-700 less than I was going to ask for private sale to a coworker. Even more interesting considering the car was in average condition for the miles and age, and needed new tires soon. This has been, by far, the best resale value of any car I have owned. On the flip side, the RDX has all of those features I added to the OB XT as mods, so I can play with some other stuff now! (I do have a bunch of accessories to install this weekend).
Had Subaru offered a more sigificantly refreshed Legacy GT wagon for 08, that probably would have been on my list (remember I was debating between the XT and GT back in 04). But I still would have been looking for VDC and more passenger room. For a vehicle that is smaller in several key dimensions than the Legacy/Outback, the RDX is significantly roomier inside for the driver and passengers. Just seems like a better allocation of space, something Honda has always been good at.
Bob: as I have been looking at the RDX since August, I have a lot of mental notes on how it compares to the XT, and maybe I can do a writeup at some point. The RDX and XT (and Leg GT wagon) are very much in the same category in my mind and share a lot of similarities right down to the turbo-4. I have mixed feelings on the RDX cargo shelf, and kind of prefer the rollup "shade" type cover on the XT for stowage and utility. I can see how the shelf would be hard to deal with if you already had a load in the cargo area and wanted to deploy or stow it. The shade, on the other hand, can't really get trapped by cargo for the most part, and is easy to hide somewhere if it needs to be removed. I also whacked my head on the RDX shelf tonight when loading up my gear for skiing tomorrow, and decided to ditch it for now! (maybe I need to start wearing my ski helmet when loading the car).
Juice: if you get a chance to test drive the RDX, I think you will have fun -- coming from Subarus, there is plenty to observe on the RDX -- good and bad. The RDX is weaker on utility than the Leg/OB wagons, but the handling and overall road feel is quite good -- about the best I have experienced. If I could have a vehicle with the utility of the Outback with the road manners of the RDX, it would be a home run.
Craig
I posted this over at nasioc. Not very professional, but it's my quickie interpretation:
I do wish the Legacy/Outback was more "space-efficient" on the inside. It seems bigger on the outside than the inside, and that's made it a bit of a squeeze for a family of four. Little things, like how small the glovebox is, how small the front side pockets are, no side pockets in the rear doors, a tiny center console (the JDM one helps a bit, but not much). Some of this is due to the vehicle's width, ring structure, etc. but it can be inconvenient at times.
I'd still buy it over a bigger, more family-oriented Camcord, though.
EEEESSSSHHHH!!
It looks like an Impala mated with the Tribeca!!">
Sounds like you got an excellent deal. I would rather sell to a third party than have to deal with the potential hassle of a private sale at that price difference. Now your entire garage is by Honda Motor Corp, isn't that right?
It is really too bad that Subaru ended up taking out the LGT wagon in 08. I also am left wondering if there will be Subaru with my next purchase too. For us, we are planning on getting a larger vehicle to replace my wife's Jetta so I still forsee a need for a Legacy wagon sized vehicle in our fleet. I'm not particularly interested in the OB and my wife isn't very fond of the Tribeca (she likes the MDX but that's a different topic). Slim pickings right now.
Anyway, I hope you stick around the forums. I'm interested to hear your early impressions of the RDX, perhaps over in the Subaru Crew Cafe. Out of curiosity, was the Forester XT even an consideration?
Ken
-mike
It wouldn't take much (really) to give us just a tad more size in certain areas.
John
Honda and Toyota have sold 2 seperate models for years, the bigger one for the USA.
I'm not saying Subaru should mimick them, but a big sedan and a minivan (or roomier Tribeca) couldn't hurt.
-juice
I like the new MDX -- the interior is nice, and it rides/handles well. But it's too big for me and too much of an SUV. And I have zero use for a third row seat and no real need for a big V6 or towing capabilities. Plus $40K is out of my comfort zone for a car. If your wife likes the MDX, the RDX is worth a look, especially if you don't need that third row seat. Passenger space is about the same between the two in the first two rows. I feel like the base RDX is a very good value at the $30K street price.
I will definitely stick around. Hopefully I can do an RDX writeup at some point. I took it skiing today and it was fantastic -- which says a lot because I always considered the Outback to be a perfect ski car.
The FXT was not on my list because it feels dated to me at this point, it's tight for passengers, don't like the 4EAT, no VDC (though the new sports cross gets it), and it's missing some of the luxury touches and refinement I had in the OB XT. As much as I like the Forester in general, I think it would have been a step backward from the OB XT. The RDX is more of a sideways move from the OB XT.
Two efforts:
Upcoming Impreza will be on the Legacy chassis, so should offer more interior room.
B9 Tribeca launched - biggest Subie yet.
And I have to think that with the Impreza growing in size, that Legacy will grow to keep differentiation between models. Remember '08 isn't a major change for Legacy, mostly a refresh.
Maybe by the time you're done with the Lincoln, Subaru will offer something that could bring you back.
The Legacy should have been the first to become larger, it should be the flagship for the brand and reflect that.
I know that subaru is small and nitch market, in the time I've been with them I've seen Hyundai, Kia grow and others.
I doubt they will get much bigger with Toyota increasing production in subarus' Indiana plant.
We shall see what they offer in the future. They are excellent cars but need to upscale as their customers become more affluent, if they want to keep them.
Subies have a lot more character.
The Mercury was roomy though, it felt very wide to me.
-juice
Ken
I'm just not in the $40k price range. But if it were $30k I'd probably jump on one right now.
-juice
The price tag is steep but I think it's priced relative to other vehicles in it's class.
Now, I would be fine in a Odyssey Touring model or the like, but my better half just can't warm to the idea (yet).
Ken
The last Pilot I test drove also rode stiffly, but they may be better now because that was several model years ago.
-juice
I really like the new MDX as a replacement for our Expedition, but the extra 12" of length on the GM's make for a pretty nice third row experience.
Karl
Space is incredible, they really are huge. Probably twice as much room as a Tribeca in the 2nd and 3rd rows.
But...the seats are not very comfy. The 2nd row middle and the entire 3rd row still feel like a penalty box. A roomy one, but still.
Also, visibility was a huge issue for me. Blind spots are huge. I backed in to a curb and the salesman understood - you can't see where you're going.
It's huge, so if you like big, you'll like the Outlook. It felt solid, quick, smooth, quiet. FWD model had some torque steer, and it leaned a bit, but not bad for its size.
If seat comfort isn't high on your priority list, take a close look. But for me, when a vehicle that large only seats 4 adults comfortably, it's a deal killer.
-juice
I looked at the Odyssey EX (like it better than the Touring) and thought it was very nice. Almost nice enough to alleviate the minivan stigma! I don't know how to convince a spouse to get one though. Of course, your wife *is* a mother of two so it's not like the minivan will change that a whole lot -- I think she's 99% of the way to being a minivan mom already, whether she knows it or not!
But hey, if we were shopping for similar vehicles and my wife wanted the MDX over a minivan, I would not have a problem with that at all. I would definitely prefer an RDX myself though -- it's got a younger sportier feel (then again, I am the target demographic for the RDX, and about 13 years younger than the typical MDX buyer).
I compared them both to the Tribeca. I had never been in a Tribeca before. If you want/need a third row the Tribeca is an absolute joke. I could barely get out of the back once I was in there.
I do not seem to be that picky when it comes to seat comfort. I have never owned a vehicle I consider uncomfortable. I thought the second row of the Acadia when moved all the way back was great. Even with it moved forward to make space in the third row I thought it was quite comfortable. The fact that I am only 5'9" and the tallest in my family may help.
I loved the leather in the MDX. The vehicle has a real quality feel to it, at least compared to my Outback and my wifes Expedition.
My wife loves the Expedition and I hate it, so I suspect she will really like the size of the Acadia (I'm not a Saturn fan).
Karl
The Outlook's 2nd row was too low to the ground and also very thinly padded, probably a compromise to make the seat easier to fold. But that's a pretty big compromise for people that carry kids most of the time, and not cargo.
The Tribeca's seats are far more comfy, this the 2nd row, the one people actually USE most of the time. Especially the center seat, it's a 40/20/40 fold and the 20 part is actually inhabitable.
On the Saturn, it's like you're sitting on a board of wood, no padding, and the backrest is even stiffer. OK for 4 people, but not 5.
I have low expectations for 3rd rows, so as long as a couple of 10 year olds fit, I'm happy.
-juice