Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

graphicguy · June 2022

benjaminh said:
My guess is that by 2025 EV prices will start to come down as production numbers expand. By 2026 there might well be an EV price war. By then demand for gasoline should slowly start to fall because of the adoption of EVs.

Ford dealers must be mad that Ford is going to a direct sales model for their EVs. Questionable move by Ford imho, because having salespeople demonstrate an EV is something that would set them apart from Tesla.

I think the dealers have shot themselves in the foot with what's happening today. Instead of heading what their manufacturers were telling them, they have resulted in the price gouging that has given them a bad name in the past.

Ford is just the latest to institute direct ordering and pricing. They're taking the dealerships out of the equation as a result.

Chevy has just said they now offer the least expensive EV on the market (in 2023) at a starting price of $26K.

They're slaying the big oil dragon along with Ford, Volvo, Tesla and all the rest.

Michaell · June 2022

graphicguy said:

benjaminh said:
My guess is that by 2025 EV prices will start to come down as production numbers expand. By 2026 there might well be an EV price war. By then demand for gasoline should slowly start to fall because of the adoption of EVs.

Ford dealers must be mad that Ford is going to a direct sales model for their EVs. Questionable move by Ford imho, because having salespeople demonstrate an EV is something that would set them apart from Tesla.
I think the dealers have shot themselves in the foot with what's happening today. Instead of heading what their manufacturers were telling them, they have resulted in the price gouging that has given them a bad name in the past.

Ford is just the latest to institute direct ordering and pricing. They're taking the dealerships out of the equation as a result.

Chevy has just said they now offer the least expensive EV on the market (in 2023) at a starting price of $26K.

They're slaying the big oil dragon along with Ford, Volvo, Tesla and all the rest.

I'm trying to do my part, if only VW could get the TN plant converted over to building the ID.4 sooner.

oldfarmer50 · June 2022

I always thought graphicguy was a bit harsh on the oil companies but I may be coming around to his way of thinking.

As you may know, NY suspended it’s gas tax which should have resulted in an IMMEDIATE 16 cent drop in gas prices across the board. What I noticed, however, was that some stations kept charging the same amount for several days and when they did drop the price it was by only 10 cents. That means they really INCREASED their prices 6 cents. One station where I used to get PUG still hasn’t dropped that price meaning they are keeping the entire 16 cents.

I’m infuriated by this obvious grift. So much so that I called the sales tax authorities. I was put on hold until I gave up. Wonderful.

henryn · June 2022

I think you're confusing how, where, and by who the gas tax is collected. Sales tax is collected by the retailer, the point of sale to the consumer. Gasoline taxes are not collected in the same way, that happens somewhere up the chain. To tell the truth, I'm not sure where, but I'm sure it doesn't happen at the gas station on the corner.

roadburner · June 2022

graphicguy said:

roadburner said:
So I have a defendant charged with his ninth DUI since 1999, along with his fourth driving on a DUI suspended license and causing an accident that injured the other driver. I offered his attorney 10 years flat(no parole).
And of course the attorney thinks I'm being too tough on the guy...
Personally, I think you’re being way too generous.

Here's the problem; if everything goes my way he's looking at 30 years- but during the guilt phase of the trial I'm not allowed to mention his prior convictions or why his license was suspended. So he could possibly walk(the case is good but hardly open and shut). So 10 years flat works for me. His last conviction was in Louisville(when he had 8 priors) and he only got 2 years.

oldfarmer50 · June 2022

henryn said:
I think you're confusing how, where, and by who the gas tax is collected. Sales tax is collected by the retailer, the point of sale to the consumer. Gasoline taxes are not collected in the same way, that happens somewhere up the chain. To tell the truth, I'm not sure where, but I'm sure it doesn't happen at the gas station on the corner.

As with many things in NY it’s not that simple. The state levies both a gas tax and a sales tax. I assume the gas tax gets paid quarterly based on gallons purchased wholesale while the sales tax is collected on site. It’s further complicated by the state only suspending some taxes on the price over $2/gal.

Regardless, that doesn’t explain why a 16 net reduction in cost would result in some gas staying at the same price while other grades go down. Something’s fishy when the gas at one station goes down 16 cents but the one across the street stays the same.

graphicguy · June 2022

oldfarmer50 said:
I always thought graphicguy was a bit harsh on the oil companies but I may be coming around to his way of thinking.

As you may know, NY suspended it’s gas tax which should have resulted in an IMMEDIATE 16 cent drop in gas prices across the board. What I noticed, however, was that some stations kept charging the same amount for several days and when they did drop the price it was by only 10 cents. That means they really INCREASED their prices 6 cents. One station where I used to get PUG still hasn’t dropped that price meaning they are keeping the entire 16 cents.

I’m infuriated by this obvious grift. So much so that I called the sales tax authorities. I was put on hold until I gave up. Wonderful.

We’re now a party of two. Anyone else want to join us? We serve stale saltines and luke warm, unsweetened Lipton in styrofoam cups at our meetings.

graphicguy · June 2022

Michaell said:

graphicguy said:

benjaminh said:
My guess is that by 2025 EV prices will start to come down as production numbers expand. By 2026 there might well be an EV price war. By then demand for gasoline should slowly start to fall because of the adoption of EVs.

Ford dealers must be mad that Ford is going to a direct sales model for their EVs. Questionable move by Ford imho, because having salespeople demonstrate an EV is something that would set them apart from Tesla.
I think the dealers have shot themselves in the foot with what's happening today. Instead of heading what their manufacturers were telling them, they have resulted in the price gouging that has given them a bad name in the past.

Ford is just the latest to institute direct ordering and pricing. They're taking the dealerships out of the equation as a result.

Chevy has just said they now offer the least expensive EV on the market (in 2023) at a starting price of $26K.

They're slaying the big oil dragon along with Ford, Volvo, Tesla and all the rest.
I'm trying to do my part, if only VW could get the TN plant converted over to building the ID.4 sooner.

My neighbor’s wife bought an ID.4 when they first came out. Tough to get right now. But, she absolutely LOVES hers.

I’ve ridden in it. Nice vehicle with very good execution.

Michaell · June 2022

graphicguy said:

Michaell said:

graphicguy said:

benjaminh said:
My guess is that by 2025 EV prices will start to come down as production numbers expand. By 2026 there might well be an EV price war. By then demand for gasoline should slowly start to fall because of the adoption of EVs.

Ford dealers must be mad that Ford is going to a direct sales model for their EVs. Questionable move by Ford imho, because having salespeople demonstrate an EV is something that would set them apart from Tesla.
I think the dealers have shot themselves in the foot with what's happening today. Instead of heading what their manufacturers were telling them, they have resulted in the price gouging that has given them a bad name in the past.

Ford is just the latest to institute direct ordering and pricing. They're taking the dealerships out of the equation as a result.

Chevy has just said they now offer the least expensive EV on the market (in 2023) at a starting price of $26K.

They're slaying the big oil dragon along with Ford, Volvo, Tesla and all the rest.
I'm trying to do my part, if only VW could get the TN plant converted over to building the ID.4 sooner.
My neighbor’s wife bought an ID.4 when they first came out. Tough to get right now. But, she absolutely LOVES hers.

I’ve ridden in it. Nice vehicle with very good execution.

Folks on FB are reporting 8-12 months from order to delivery.

driver100 · June 2022

We went on a one hour trip out of town today....and one hour back. I saw 5 Broncos. Maybe people are taking them without chips since they are rugged SUVs so buyers don't need all the little luxury items that chips are used for.

jmonroe1 · June 2022

@roadburner said:
So I have a defendant charged with his ninth DUI since 1999, along with his fourth driving on a DUI suspended license and causing an accident that injured the other driver. I offered his attorney 10 years flat(no parole).
And of course the attorney thinks I'm being too tough on the guy...

————————————————-
I agree with the drunks attorney. Your sentence should have been 9 years and let the drunks attorney try to plea it down to 8. It’s nice to play a lawyer/judge on this site. I think I was in the wrong biz.

jmonroe

roadburner · June 2022

An oldie(1989) but a goodie; a BMW Car Club event at a California airfield.- check out what happens from 3:41 on when an RAF parachute team meets up with the BMW crew.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2hbbWacfE0&t=4s

henryn · June 2022

I know nothing about New York state. In Texas, sales taxes run 8.25% in most places, on dang near everything. But not on gasoline.

I found this for New York State:

The gas tax cut only covers part of what the state collects on a gallon of gasoline. New York has a 17.3 cent petroleum business tax and an 8 cent fuel tax. There is also an 8-cent-a-gallon state sales tax.

Local counties add their own sales taxes that can add 2% or more to the cost of a gallon.

So in New York state, it's 17.3 + 8 + 8 + 2 == 35.3 cents in addition to the 18.4 cents the Feds get.

I would think in New York state, the only tax collected and remitted by the retailer (corner gas station) would be the 8 cents sales tax. But I really don't know, only speculation on my part.

stickguy · June 2022

this situation is really showing how rigged the gas business is. between conspiring to restrict supply, controlling refining and retail, lots of ways to inflate prices deep into gouge territory.

cdnpinhead · June 2022

roadburner said:
An oldie(1989) but a goodie; a BMW Car Club event at a California airfield.- check out what happens from 3:41 on when an RAF parachute team meets up with the BMW crew.

Too bad there was no audio.

roadburner · June 2022

cdnpinhead said:

roadburner said:
An oldie(1989) but a goodie; a BMW Car Club event at a California airfield.- check out what happens from 3:41 on when an RAF parachute team meets up with the BMW crew.
Too bad there was no audio.

It had Sammy Hagar and Kenny Loggins on the original video; copyright issues nixed that.

driver100 · June 2022

stickguy said:
this situation is really showing how rigged the gas business is. between conspiring to restrict supply, controlling refining and retail, lots of ways to inflate prices deep into gouge territory.

....and I believe the oil companies made exceptionally good big profits in the last quarter, even with all of their so called problems.

bwia · June 2022

Hello Everybody. Just checking in after an absence of 6 months. In that time I met a widow online, 12 years my junior, whose husband died from Myeloma cancer. It started innocently enough by she offering prayers for my recovery and before you know it she was in love with my words, my voice and now my body. One downside though, she lives over 2000 miles away, but that does not deter her from modeling her new underwear and swimsuits for my viewing pleasure.

Notwithstanding all this excitement, I am in the market for an EV. My first choice was the Nissan Ariya but delivery delays have forced my hand to the Polestar 2 and the wait time is not much better at six to eight months. The legacy auto manufacturers are all bark and no bite with promises of introducing new EVs while they continue to produce gas guzzlers. EV tax credits could help but the Feds and state legislators are not as eager to offer tax rebates as they once did. No wonder China and even Vietnam are eating our lunches while we grudgingly tiptoe into the BEV waters.

graphicguy · June 2022

stickguy said:
this situation is really showing how rigged the gas business is. between conspiring to restrict supply, controlling refining and retail, lots of ways to inflate prices deep into gouge territory.

Their arrogance is going to be rewarded by them going out of business while bemoaning their fate. If I worked for any of these companies, I’d polish up the old resume. They aren’t making a move to install charging stations. And, as could be predicted, demand is dropping, and will continue to do so.

Yet, here they go….raising prices.

None of this can happen soon enough.

explorerx4 · June 2022

We had to delay putting our house on the market due to me testing positive for Covid.
One of the kids was at one of the Casino's for a couple of days last weekend and brought it back with them.
Had negative at home testing Tuesday and Thursday, although started not feeling well on Wednesday,
Yesterday positive at home test plus positive PCR test at an Urgent Care Center.
At least my wife didn't get it too.
Was supposed to have 6 showings scheduled for tomorrow, had to postpone them.

benjaminh · June 2022

Hang in there @explorerx4 . All best wishes for a good recovery.

benjaminh · June 2022

bwia said:
....Notwithstanding all this excitement, I am in the market for an EV. My first choice was the Nissan Ariya but delivery delays have forced my hand to the Polestar 2 and the wait time is not much better at six to eight months. The legacy auto manufacturers are all bark and no bite with promises of introducing new EVs while they continue to produce gas guzzlers. EV tax credits could help but the Feds and state legislators are not as eager to offer tax rebates as they once did. No wonder China and even Vietnam are eating our lunches while we grudgingly tiptoe into the BEV waters.

Congrats on everything, and welcome back!

What are you currently driving? As I'm sure you know, it's a really costly time to buy any vehicle right now, including an EV. Tesla has raised the price on the Model 3 by about $10k over the past two years, and ditto for the Model Y. Ford, GM, and VW are all in the middle of crash programs costing tens of billions of dollars to ramp up production of their new EVS, but the flood of EVs won't really start to hit the market until 2024. If you can wait even a year EVs will probably be more available and affordable. But if you've got to have a new EV asap, as you know pretty much your only choice is to get on a waiting list for 6 months or more.

oldfarmer50 · June 2022

explorerx4 said:
We had to delay putting our house on the market due to me testing positive for Covid.
One of the kids was at one of the Casino's for a couple of days last weekend and brought it back with them.
Had negative at home testing Tuesday and Thursday, although started not feeling well on Wednesday,
Yesterday positive at home test plus positive PCR test at an Urgent Care Center.
At least my wife didn't get it too.
Was supposed to have 6 showings scheduled for tomorrow, had to postpone them.

I just read a news report that said to expect repeat visits from covid no how many vaccinations you get. What a bummer.

oldfarmer50 · June 2022

bwia said:
Hello Everybody. Just checking in after an absence of 6 months. In that time I met a widow online, 12 years my junior, whose husband died from Myeloma cancer. It started innocently enough by she offering prayers for my recovery and before you know it she was in love with my words, my voice and now my body. One downside though, she lives over 2000 miles away, but that does not deter her from modeling her new underwear and swimsuits for my viewing pleasure.

Notwithstanding all this excitement, I am in the market for an EV. My first choice was the Nissan Ariya but delivery delays have forced my hand to the Polestar 2 and the wait time is not much better at six to eight months. The legacy auto manufacturers are all bark and no bite with promises of introducing new EVs while they continue to produce gas guzzlers. EV tax credits could help but the Feds and state legislators are not as eager to offer tax rebates as they once did. No wonder China and even Vietnam are eating our lunches while we grudgingly tiptoe into the BEV waters.

You better line up a good supply of charging stations if you plan on driving 2000 miles to see her.

houdini1 · June 2022

graphicguy said:
Still in the honeymoon stage, but having had numerous sports/muscle cars over the last decade, I think I bought the Accord Hybrid at the exact right time.

First, while not fast by any stretch, it does handle well and is reasonably spry. Love the EV torque off the line.

It brakes consistently well, and very predictably. For electronic steering, it gives good feedback.

It rides as well as any luxury car I’ve ridden in lately (friends’ XT6, 540i, E350). It’s probably quieter than any of them, too. Soaks up road imperfections as well as anything I’ve ever driven.

All the tech works, which is saying something given the horror stories I’ve heard about others’ experiences recently.

It’s screwed together as well as anything I’ve been in….EVER! Materials and build quality are superb. Feels solid as a vault.

Great seats that rival those in the super comfy seats in my previous TLX.

Mid 40s MPG. And, it runs on RUG instead of PUG. Thinking I’m saving $100-$150/mo between the lower cost of RUG and the doubling of MPG over the TLX. That’s a win-win-win!

No “start/stop” shudders….NONE!

Downsides….

-It’s not like I’m unique in every day driving. I see at least 4-5-6 other Accords on the road, every day. The TLX A-Spec was probably 2-3/week sighting around here…if that.

-As good as the stereo is, it ain’t the ELS in the TLS, which is the best I’ve ever heard, in any car, at any price.

-It understeers. Not a huge deal. But, it’s noticeable.

-Not going to win many stop light wars, although last night I dusted an Infiniti G35. Granted, the G35 had mods that probably hindered everything about its performance. Still, it was satisfying to pull up at the next light and grin at the G35’s driver. I can make quick work of Malibus, LeSabres, 4 cyl Camrys, Altimas, etc. Not proud of that. Just a fact! LOL!

Won’t last forever, but I could probably sell it for more than I paid for it right now. Moreover, there are no new Accords available anywhere within a 50 mile radius of me. Good luck finding a Hybrid version anywhere in the foreseeable future.

I have owned several Hondas and Acuras over the years and they were all great cars. My only nit pick is that I found the seats too low to the deck, and with my long legs, my knees crowded the steering wheel too much.

houdini1 · June 2022

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

graphicguy said:

snakeweasel said:

graphicguy said:
Still in the honeymoon stage, but having had numerous sports/muscle cars over the last decade, I think I bought the Accord Hybrid at the exact right time.

First, while not fast by any stretch, it does handle well and is reasonably spry. Love the EV torque off the line.

It brakes consistently well, and very predictably. For electronic steering, it gives good feedback.

It rides as well as any luxury car I’ve ridden in lately (friends’ XT6, 540i, E350). It’s probably quieter than any of them, too. Soaks up road imperfections as well as anything I’ve ever driven.

All the tech works, which is saying something given the horror stories I’ve heard about others’ experiences recently.

It’s screwed together as well as anything I’ve been in….EVER! Materials and build quality are superb. Feels solid as a vault.

Great seats that rival those in the super comfy seats in my previous TLX.

Mid 40s MPG. And, it runs on RUG instead of PUG. Thinking I’m saving $100-$150/mo between the lower cost of RUG and the doubling of MPG over the TLX. That’s a win-win-win!

No “start/stop” shudders….NONE!

Downsides….

-It’s not like I’m unique in every day driving. I see at least 4-5-6 other Accords on the road, every day. The TLX A-Spec was probably 2-3/week sighting around here…if that.

-As good as the stereo is, it ain’t the ELS in the TLS, which is the best I’ve ever heard, in any car, at any price.

-It understeers. Not a huge deal. But, it’s noticeable.

-Not going to win many stop light wars, although last night I dusted an Infiniti G35. Granted, the G35 had mods that probably hindered everything about its performance. Still, it was satisfying to pull up at the next light and grin at the G35’s driver. I can make quick work of Malibus, LeSabres, 4 cyl Camrys, Altimas, etc. Not proud of that. Just a fact! LOL!

Won’t last forever, but I could probably sell it for more than I paid for it right now. Moreover, there are no new Accords available anywhere within a 50 mile radius of me. Good luck finding a Hybrid version anywhere in the foreseeable future.
When I think of hybrids I now think of my sisters Prius that at 12 years of age is now a brick sitting in her driveway. Hybrid batteries are dead and the car won't start without them. Now to get the car running we have to put more into the car than the car is worth.

Maybe we should just blow it up.
One of my good friends has a first gen Camry Hybrid, bought new, with 150K+ miles. She just replaced the battery in it (~$3K). But, her maintenance on it has been close to nil. So, aside from consumables, which every car has, and oil changes, that’s been the extent of maintenance.

If memory serves, the Camry gave more than ample warnings and reminders to have the batteries serviced….kind of like reminding you to change the oil in a totally ICE car. Did your sister have any warning about impending service requirements?

Personally, although not something I thought I’d be driving, I’m really enjoying the heck out of mine.

I do know there are many, many taxi fleets using Priuses, with multiples of 100s of thousands of miles. Anecdotal about their longevity but worth noting, nonetheless.
In my experience batteries die from temperature and age more than use and reuse and charges/charging. So a million mile Prius wouldn't surprise me anymore than one one with low mileage but 14 years of age being dead.
Age and temperatures do have a negative effect on batteries but so do discharge/recharge cycles. Batteries typically can be charged a set number of times then they start to go bad, poor recharging techniques can shorten the life even more.

I don't know if this is accurate, but i saw a picture of a charging station that was powered by a diesel generator. It said that with diesel over $5.00 a gallon, a full charge would convert to a mileage of 5 miles per gallon in a diesel vehicle.

qbrozen · June 2022

houdini1 said:

I don't know if this is accurate, but i saw a picture of a charging station that was powered by a diesel generator. It said that with diesel over $5.00 a gallon, a full charge would convert to a mileage of 5 miles per gallon in a diesel vehicle.

Well, whoever created that setup is lacking any common sense. Exponential energy loss in the conversions. Does this genius also power solar panels via UV lights running off a diesel generator?

oldfarmer50 · June 2022

I got a pleasant surprise the other day. I took the convertible to the store just to run it but at 93 degrees I didn’t want the top down. So for the first time, I drove it like a regular car and turned on the AC. I was shocked to find that the cooling was like a freezer. I actually had to turn it down a bit. Not bad for a 22 year old system. In fact it was the coldest AC I’ve ever felt and that includes my newer cars.

I know they switched from Freon to 134 refrigerant in the 90s but have they changed again to an even less efficient compound since then?

bwia · June 2022

@benjaminh said:
Congrats on everything, and welcome back!

What are you currently driving? As I'm sure you know, it's a really costly time to buy any vehicle right now, including an EV. Tesla has raised the price on the Model 3 by about $10k over the past two years, and ditto for the Model Y. Ford, GM, and VW are all in the middle of crash programs costing tens of billions of dollars to ramp up production of their new EVS, but the flood of EVs won't really start to hit the market until 2024. If you can wait even a year EVs will probably be more available and affordable. But if you've got to have a new EV asap, as you know pretty much your only choice is to get on a waiting list for 6 months or more.

Thanks for welcome @benjaminh. I happy to be back.

At the moment I do not have a daily driver. My daughter is driving my Buick Lacrosse CXS. When she changed jobs she lost the benefits of her company car and did not give herself enough of a lead time to get a replacement vehicle.

Her car search began with a Tesla Model 3. As a matter of fact she rented one for a week. In the end she said she did not like the Model 3. So she decided to buy a Model Y; but after reviewing and testing it she said the Model Y was not worth $72k. Still inclined to buy an EV she shifted her focus from Tesla Motors to Polestar 2. Again, she didn't like the Polestar so she opted for an Audi RS3, but expected delivery is sometime in October.

Since I'm in no hurry for a replacement car at the moment I can wait for a Polestar 2, buy it at an expected $52k price and resell it hopefully at a higher price.

bwia · June 2022

@oldfarmer50 said:
You better line up a good supply of charging stations if you plan on driving 2000 miles to see her.

To be honest, I would never drive 2000 miles one way, then turn around and drive another 2000 miles back. Not a chance. Perhaps a JetBlue round trip ticket might be a better option.

roadburner · June 2022

@oldfarmer50 said:
I got a pleasant surprise the other day. I took the convertible to the store just to run it but at 93 degrees I didn’t want the top down. So for the first time, I drove it like a regular car and turned on the AC. I was shocked to find that the cooling was like a freezer. I actually had to turn it down a bit. Not bad for a 22 year old system. In fact it was the coldest AC I’ve ever felt and that includes my newer cars.

I know they switched from Freon to 134 refrigerant in the 90s but have they changed again to an even less efficient compound since then?

The A/C in my 1995 3 Series is really good. At 25 years it needed a new compressor but at that age I’m not complaining; anyway, I suspect it’s failure was due to infrequent use for several years.
Unfortunately, my Wrangler likely needs an evaporator. I guess I could sell it on Craigslist and just say it needs Freon. 😉

bwia · June 2022

@bwia said:

@benjaminh said:
Congrats on everything, and welcome back!

What are you currently driving? As I'm sure you know, it's a really costly time to buy any vehicle right now, including an EV. Tesla has raised the price on the Model 3 by about $10k over the past two years, and ditto for the Model Y. Ford, GM, and VW are all in the middle of crash programs costing tens of billions of dollars to ramp up production of their new EVS, but the flood of EVs won't really start to hit the market until 2024. If you can wait even a year EVs will probably be more available and affordable. But if you've got to have a new EV asap, as you know pretty much your only choice is to get on a waiting list for 6 months or more.

Thanks for the welcome @benjaminh. I happy to be back.

At the moment I do not have a daily driver. My daughter is driving my Buick Lacrosse CXS. When she changed jobs she lost the benefits of her company car and did not give herself enough of a lead time to get a replacement vehicle.

Her car search began with a Tesla Model 3. As a matter of fact she rented one for a week. In the end she said she did not like the Model 3. So she decided to buy a Model Y; but after reviewing and testing it she said the Model Y was not worth $72k. Still inclined to buy an EV she shifted her focus from Tesla Motors to Geeley's Polestar 2. Again, she didn't like the Polestar so she opted for an Audi S3, but expected delivery is sometime in October.

Since I'm in no hurry for a replacement car at the moment I can wait for a Polestar 2, buy it at an expected $52k price and resell it hopefully at a higher price.

bwia · June 2022

Sharing sad news. Just heard that one of my daughter's high school friends died suddenly from a heart attack while teaching English in China. May his departed soul rest in peace.

driver100 · June 2022

stickguy said:
this situation is really showing how rigged the gas business is. between conspiring to restrict supply, controlling refining and retail, lots of ways to inflate prices deep into gouge territory.

....and I believe the oil companie

houdini1 said:

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

graphicguy said:

snakeweasel said:

graphicguy said:
Still in the honeymoon stage, but having had numerous sports/muscle cars over the last decade, I think I bought the Accord Hybrid at the exact right time.

First, while not fast by any stretch, it does handle well and is reasonably spry. Love the EV torque off the line.

It brakes consistently well, and very predictably. For electronic steering, it gives good feedback.

It rides as well as any luxury car I’ve ridden in lately (friends’ XT6, 540i, E350). It’s probably quieter than any of them, too. Soaks up road imperfections as well as anything I’ve ever driven.

All the tech works, which is saying something given the horror stories I’ve heard about others’ experiences recently.

It’s screwed together as well as anything I’ve been in….EVER! Materials and build quality are superb. Feels solid as a vault.

Great seats that rival those in the super comfy seats in my previous TLX.

Mid 40s MPG. And, it runs on RUG instead of PUG. Thinking I’m saving $100-$150/mo between the lower cost of RUG and the doubling of MPG over the TLX. That’s a win-win-win!

No “start/stop” shudders….NONE!

Downsides….

-It’s not like I’m unique in every day driving. I see at least 4-5-6 other Accords on the road, every day. The TLX A-Spec was probably 2-3/week sighting around here…if that.

-As good as the stereo is, it ain’t the ELS in the TLS, which is the best I’ve ever heard, in any car, at any price.

-It understeers. Not a huge deal. But, it’s noticeable.

-Not going to win many stop light wars, although last night I dusted an Infiniti G35. Granted, the G35 had mods that probably hindered everything about its performance. Still, it was satisfying to pull up at the next light and grin at the G35’s driver. I can make quick work of Malibus, LeSabres, 4 cyl Camrys, Altimas, etc. Not proud of that. Just a fact! LOL!

Won’t last forever, but I could probably sell it for more than I paid for it right now. Moreover, there are no new Accords available anywhere within a 50 mile radius of me. Good luck finding a Hybrid version anywhere in the foreseeable future.
When I think of hybrids I now think of my sisters Prius that at 12 years of age is now a brick sitting in her driveway. Hybrid batteries are dead and the car won't start without them. Now to get the car running we have to put more into the car than the car is worth.

Maybe we should just blow it up.
One of my good friends has a first gen Camry Hybrid, bought new, with 150K+ miles. She just replaced the battery in it (~$3K). But, her maintenance on it has been close to nil. So, aside from consumables, which every car has, and oil changes, that’s been the extent of maintenance.

If memory serves, the Camry gave more than ample warnings and reminders to have the batteries serviced….kind of like reminding you to change the oil in a totally ICE car. Did your sister have any warning about impending service requirements?

Personally, although not something I thought I’d be driving, I’m really enjoying the heck out of mine.

I do know there are many, many taxi fleets using Priuses, with multiples of 100s of thousands of miles. Anecdotal about their longevity but worth noting, nonetheless.
In my experience batteries die from temperature and age more than use and reuse and charges/charging. So a million mile Prius wouldn't surprise me anymore than one one with low mileage but 14 years of age being dead.
Age and temperatures do have a negative effect on batteries but so do discharge/recharge cycles. Batteries typically can be charged a set number of times then they start to go bad, poor recharging techniques can shorten the life even more.
I don't know if this is accurate, but i saw a picture of a charging station that was powered by a diesel generator. It said that with diesel over $5.00 a gallon, a full charge would convert to a mileage of 5 miles per gallon in a diesel vehicle.

I think they found that picture was photoshopped.

driver100 · June 2022

After tennis the guys were discussing why fill tires with nitrogen instead of air. Well, nitrogen does leak slower but not by much. Here is the technical reasons...I found it interesting....others might not!

Small amounts of air naturally leak out of tires over time, especially when tires are subject to large temperature swings. This is because the walls of tires are slightly porous. When a tire gets hot the air inside it expands. The added pressure pushes minute quantities of air out through the pores, so you occasionally have to get your air topped off even if your tire doesn’t have a hole.

Promoters of nitrogen tires point out they don’t lose tire pressure as fast as air-filled tires. Since nitrogen molecules are bigger than normal air molecules, it is harder for them to leak out. This means a tire filled with nitrogen will maintain air pressure longer. Therefore, they say, you’ll roll on tires that are always properly inflated, resulting in better fuel economy and longer tire life.

A normal tire filled with regular air loses an average 1 to 2 PSI (pounds per square inch) per month. It’s true that there is a slower loss from nitrogen-filled tires. But this improvement is slight — only about 1.3 PSI less over the course of an entire year, according to Consumer Reports. It’s not enough to make a true difference in gas mileage or tire wear for people driving passenger vehicles.

This is partly because air is already made up of 78 percent nitrogen and just under 21 percent oxygen, with the rest a mix of water vapor, carbon dioxide and other gases. When tires are filled from a nitrogen air pump this ups the percentage of N2 to between 93 and 95 percent. It’s never 100 percent.

Bottom line: Nitrogen will slow the amount of tire inflation loss to about one-third of what you’ll experience with air. This means instead of losing one to two PSI per month, you’ll lose ⅓ to ⅔ PSI per month. You’ll still need to check and top off your air roughly every other month to stay within the ideal inflation range. And you’ll spend far more than you’ll save on gas and tire tread life. You’re better off making simple tire maintenance part of your routine.

oldfarmer50 · June 2022

bwia said:

@benjaminh said:

Congrats on everything, and welcome back!

What are you currently driving? As I'm sure you know, it's a really costly time to buy any vehicle right now, including an EV. Tesla has raised the price on the Model 3 by about $10k over the past two years, and ditto for the Model Y. Ford, GM, and VW are all in the middle of crash programs costing tens of billions of dollars to ramp up production of their new EVS, but the flood of EVs won't really start to hit the market until 2024. If you can wait even a year EVs will probably be more available and affordable. But if you've got to have a new EV asap, as you know pretty much your only choice is to get on a waiting list for 6 months or more.

Thanks for welcome @benjaminh. I happy to be back.

At the moment I do not have a daily driver. My daughter is driving my Buick Lacrosse CXS. When she changed jobs she lost the benefits of her company car and did not give herself enough of a lead time to get a replacement vehicle.

Her car search began with a Tesla Model 3. As a matter of fact she rented one for a week. In the end she said she did not like the Model 3. So she decided to buy a Model Y; but after reviewing and testing it she said the Model Y was not worth $72k. Still inclined to buy an EV she shifted her focus from Tesla Motors to Polestar 2. Again, she didn't like the Polestar so she opted for an Audi RS3, but expected delivery is sometime in October.

Since I'm in no hurry for a replacement car at the moment I can wait for a Polestar 2, buy it at an expected $52k price and resell it hopefully at a higher price.

Don’t you still have a Toyota of some sort sitting down in the islands somewhere?

I got a burst of ambition today and cleaned up the cars. As I was shuffling them around the driveway I thought I’d take an updated family photo.

oldfarmer50 · June 2022

driver100 said:
After tennis the guys were discussing why fill tires with nitrogen instead of air. Well, nitrogen does leak slower but not by much. Here is the technical reasons...I found it interesting....others might not!

Small amounts of air naturally leak out of tires over time, especially when tires are subject to large temperature swings. This is because the walls of tires are slightly porous. When a tire gets hot the air inside it expands. The added pressure pushes minute quantities of air out through the pores, so you occasionally have to get your air topped off even if your tire doesn’t have a hole.

Promoters of nitrogen tires point out they don’t lose tire pressure as fast as air-filled tires. Since nitrogen molecules are bigger than normal air molecules, it is harder for them to leak out. This means a tire filled with nitrogen will maintain air pressure longer. Therefore, they say, you’ll roll on tires that are always properly inflated, resulting in better fuel economy and longer tire life.

A normal tire filled with regular air loses an average 1 to 2 PSI (pounds per square inch) per month. It’s true that there is a slower loss from nitrogen-filled tires. But this improvement is slight — only about 1.3 PSI less over the course of an entire year, according to Consumer Reports. It’s not enough to make a true difference in gas mileage or tire wear for people driving passenger vehicles.

This is partly because air is already made up of 78 percent nitrogen and just under 21 percent oxygen, with the rest a mix of water vapor, carbon dioxide and other gases. When tires are filled from a nitrogen air pump this ups the percentage of N2 to between 93 and 95 percent. It’s never 100 percent.

Bottom line: Nitrogen will slow the amount of tire inflation loss to about one-third of what you’ll experience with air. This means instead of losing one to two PSI per month, you’ll lose ⅓ to ⅔ PSI per month. You’ll still need to check and top off your air roughly every other month to stay within the ideal inflation range. And you’ll spend far more than you’ll save on gas and tire tread life. You’re better off making simple tire maintenance part of your routine.

The difference in size between Nitrogen and Oxygen is only 8 picometers so I can’t see that making much of a difference. I would think that more air would leak out the bead seal rather than through the rubber.

So if you spend money on a Nitrogen fill maybe you could check your air pressure every eight weeks rather than once a month?

Nice to be rich.

sda · June 2022

Dealers charge $200 or so for the Nitrogen fill. A huge money maker. I find it interesting that large Tire Shops like DT don’t peddle Nitrogen filled tires.

ab348 · June 2022

sda said:
Dealers charge $200 or so for the Nitrogen fill. A huge money maker. I find it interesting that large Tire Shops like DT don’t peddle Nitrogen filled tires.

That’s weird. Both the Caddy dealer and the Indy tire shop I use provide nitrogen as their standard fill, no extra charge.

venture · June 2022

driver100 said:
After tennis the guys were discussing why fill tires with nitrogen instead of air. Well, nitrogen does leak slower but not by much. Here is the technical reasons...I found it interesting....others might not!

Small amounts of air naturally leak out of tires over time, especially when tires are subject to large temperature swings. This is because the walls of tires are slightly porous. When a tire gets hot the air inside it expands. The added pressure pushes minute quantities of air out through the pores, so you occasionally have to get your air topped off even if your tire doesn’t have a hole.

Promoters of nitrogen tires point out they don’t lose tire pressure as fast as air-filled tires. Since nitrogen molecules are bigger than normal air molecules, it is harder for them to leak out. This means a tire filled with nitrogen will maintain air pressure longer. Therefore, they say, you’ll roll on tires that are always properly inflated, resulting in better fuel economy and longer tire life.

A normal tire filled with regular air loses an average 1 to 2 PSI (pounds per square inch) per month. It’s true that there is a slower loss from nitrogen-filled tires. But this improvement is slight — only about 1.3 PSI less over the course of an entire year, according to Consumer Reports. It’s not enough to make a true difference in gas mileage or tire wear for people driving passenger vehicles.

This is partly because air is already made up of 78 percent nitrogen and just under 21 percent oxygen, with the rest a mix of water vapor, carbon dioxide and other gases. When tires are filled from a nitrogen air pump this ups the percentage of N2 to between 93 and 95 percent. It’s never 100 percent.

Bottom line: Nitrogen will slow the amount of tire inflation loss to about one-third of what you’ll experience with air. This means instead of losing one to two PSI per month, you’ll lose ⅓ to ⅔ PSI per month. You’ll still need to check and top off your air roughly every other month to stay within the ideal inflation range. And you’ll spend far more than you’ll save on gas and tire tread life. You’re better off making simple tire maintenance part of your routine.

Interesting. I can't remember the last time I had to put air in the tires of any of my cars. 1 to 2 pounds a month?

No.

stickguy · June 2022

that stinks Explorer. hope you get better luck next weekend.

we had 18 showings scheduled between yesterday and today. No clue if they all showed up though. and 2 more tomorrow (plus a 2nd showing request). and that would be it. Cutting of showings at 5 tomorrow with final offers due by 7.

one appointment for after 5 auto cancelled when the agent put in the deadline. also had a stray one for Wednesday but that won't be happening!

weird to think of that many people wandering in and out of the house. at least the few feedbacks we saw were very complimentary.

not just need to see how many other offers we get tomorrow (1 came in already this morning). Exciting I guess, but it was a drag having to disappear most of the weekend! and doing it again a couple of times tomorrow (keeping the place pristine is not good for productivity getting anything else done).

imidazol97 · June 2022

We've gone over that nitrogen faux stuff before. As the article explains, when one considers that 80% of the atmosphere is already nitrogen, and the shops use poor separators that are giving in the low 90% nitrogen content, there's not much gain. It's like a lot of other things where the exaggeration is used to scare people.

I have to add air in the fall when the ambient temps here in the cold north drop from 70 nominal temp to 30 and 40 deg F. Tires lose 1 pound pressure per 10 deg F. Since my tires are rotated and balanced every 6000 miles or so, the stores adjust the pressures to what I tell them I want. If there's any pressure lost in 1 tire that's not explained by my testing the pressure with a meter, I assume a slow leak that needs service for the nail in the tire.

I used to have problems with seeps due to corrosion on the bead of the leSabre and Cobalt rims after they aged and salt had sat in the bead during the winter. Knock on wood, I haven't had that with the Cruze or the Malibu. Must be the high quality of the rims.

snakeweasel · June 2022

driver100 said:
After tennis the guys were discussing why fill tires with nitrogen instead of air. Well, nitrogen does leak slower but not by much. Here is the technical reasons...I found it interesting....others might not!

Small amounts of air naturally leak out of tires over time, especially when tires are subject to large temperature swings. This is because the walls of tires are slightly porous. When a tire gets hot the air inside it expands. The added pressure pushes minute quantities of air out through the pores, so you occasionally have to get your air topped off even if your tire doesn’t have a hole.

Promoters of nitrogen tires point out they don’t lose tire pressure as fast as air-filled tires. Since nitrogen molecules are bigger than normal air molecules, it is harder for them to leak out. This means a tire filled with nitrogen will maintain air pressure longer. Therefore, they say, you’ll roll on tires that are always properly inflated, resulting in better fuel economy and longer tire life.

A normal tire filled with regular air loses an average 1 to 2 PSI (pounds per square inch) per month. It’s true that there is a slower loss from nitrogen-filled tires. But this improvement is slight — only about 1.3 PSI less over the course of an entire year, according to Consumer Reports. It’s not enough to make a true difference in gas mileage or tire wear for people driving passenger vehicles.

This is partly because air is already made up of 78 percent nitrogen and just under 21 percent oxygen, with the rest a mix of water vapor, carbon dioxide and other gases. When tires are filled from a nitrogen air pump this ups the percentage of N2 to between 93 and 95 percent. It’s never 100 percent.

Bottom line: Nitrogen will slow the amount of tire inflation loss to about one-third of what you’ll experience with air. This means instead of losing one to two PSI per month, you’ll lose ⅓ to ⅔ PSI per month. You’ll still need to check and top off your air roughly every other month to stay within the ideal inflation range. And you’ll spend far more than you’ll save on gas and tire tread life. You’re better off making simple tire maintenance part of your routine.

I once talked with a scientist that works with gasses and he told me that putting all nitrogen in your tires will leak out slower and extend the life of your tires and give you better gas mileage but in much the same was that throwing a brick into your pool raises the water level. yes it does but good luck noticing.

Another sales pitch is that nitrogen is an inert gas so it would not have any water vapor so it reduces the risk of rust on the rim. Like that's a big issue.

He told me that there are many benefits of using nitrogen in aircraft tires. But that is comparing apples and oranges.

snakeweasel · June 2022

oldfarmer50 said:

Nice to be rich.

I wouldn't know.

explorerx4 · June 2022

@stickguy,
Sounds like you are in an good position, Best of luck and you won't have to wait long to find out.

driver100 · June 2022

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:
After tennis the guys were discussing why fill tires with nitrogen instead of air. Well, nitrogen does leak slower but not by much. Here is the technical reasons...I found it interesting....others might not!

Small amounts of air naturally leak out of tires over time, especially when tires are subject to large temperature swings. This is because the walls of tires are slightly porous. When a tire gets hot the air inside it expands. The added pressure pushes minute quantities of air out through the pores, so you occasionally have to get your air topped off even if your tire doesn’t have a hole.

Promoters of nitrogen tires point out they don’t lose tire pressure as fast as air-filled tires. Since nitrogen molecules are bigger than normal air molecules, it is harder for them to leak out. This means a tire filled with nitrogen will maintain air pressure longer. Therefore, they say, you’ll roll on tires that are always properly inflated, resulting in better fuel economy and longer tire life.

A normal tire filled with regular air loses an average 1 to 2 PSI (pounds per square inch) per month. It’s true that there is a slower loss from nitrogen-filled tires. But this improvement is slight — only about 1.3 PSI less over the course of an entire year, according to Consumer Reports. It’s not enough to make a true difference in gas mileage or tire wear for people driving passenger vehicles.

This is partly because air is already made up of 78 percent nitrogen and just under 21 percent oxygen, with the rest a mix of water vapor, carbon dioxide and other gases. When tires are filled from a nitrogen air pump this ups the percentage of N2 to between 93 and 95 percent. It’s never 100 percent.

Bottom line: Nitrogen will slow the amount of tire inflation loss to about one-third of what you’ll experience with air. This means instead of losing one to two PSI per month, you’ll lose ⅓ to ⅔ PSI per month. You’ll still need to check and top off your air roughly every other month to stay within the ideal inflation range. And you’ll spend far more than you’ll save on gas and tire tread life. You’re better off making simple tire maintenance part of your routine.
The difference in size between Nitrogen and Oxygen is only 8 picometers so I can’t see that making much of a difference. I would think that more air would leak out the bead seal rather than through the rubber.

So if you spend money on a Nitrogen fill maybe you could check your air pressure every eight weeks rather than once a month?

Nice to be rich.

Yeh, well we all can't live on the Ponderosa and have a fleet of cars....must be nice

oldfarmer50 · June 2022

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:
After tennis the guys were discussing why fill tires with nitrogen instead of air. Well, nitrogen does leak slower but not by much. Here is the technical reasons...I found it interesting....others might not!

Small amounts of air naturally leak out of tires over time, especially when tires are subject to large temperature swings. This is because the walls of tires are slightly porous. When a tire gets hot the air inside it expands. The added pressure pushes minute quantities of air out through the pores, so you occasionally have to get your air topped off even if your tire doesn’t have a hole.

Promoters of nitrogen tires point out they don’t lose tire pressure as fast as air-filled tires. Since nitrogen molecules are bigger than normal air molecules, it is harder for them to leak out. This means a tire filled with nitrogen will maintain air pressure longer. Therefore, they say, you’ll roll on tires that are always properly inflated, resulting in better fuel economy and longer tire life.

A normal tire filled with regular air loses an average 1 to 2 PSI (pounds per square inch) per month. It’s true that there is a slower loss from nitrogen-filled tires. But this improvement is slight — only about 1.3 PSI less over the course of an entire year, according to Consumer Reports. It’s not enough to make a true difference in gas mileage or tire wear for people driving passenger vehicles.

This is partly because air is already made up of 78 percent nitrogen and just under 21 percent oxygen, with the rest a mix of water vapor, carbon dioxide and other gases. When tires are filled from a nitrogen air pump this ups the percentage of N2 to between 93 and 95 percent. It’s never 100 percent.

Bottom line: Nitrogen will slow the amount of tire inflation loss to about one-third of what you’ll experience with air. This means instead of losing one to two PSI per month, you’ll lose ⅓ to ⅔ PSI per month. You’ll still need to check and top off your air roughly every other month to stay within the ideal inflation range. And you’ll spend far more than you’ll save on gas and tire tread life. You’re better off making simple tire maintenance part of your routine.
The difference in size between Nitrogen and Oxygen is only 8 picometers so I can’t see that making much of a difference. I would think that more air would leak out the bead seal rather than through the rubber.

So if you spend money on a Nitrogen fill maybe you could check your air pressure every eight weeks rather than once a month?

Nice to be rich.
Yeh, well we all can't live on the Ponderosa and have a fleet of cars....must be nice

I still can’t afford Nitrogen.

Michaell · June 2022

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:
After tennis the guys were discussing why fill tires with nitrogen instead of air. Well, nitrogen does leak slower but not by much. Here is the technical reasons...I found it interesting....others might not!

Small amounts of air naturally leak out of tires over time, especially when tires are subject to large temperature swings. This is because the walls of tires are slightly porous. When a tire gets hot the air inside it expands. The added pressure pushes minute quantities of air out through the pores, so you occasionally have to get your air topped off even if your tire doesn’t have a hole.

Promoters of nitrogen tires point out they don’t lose tire pressure as fast as air-filled tires. Since nitrogen molecules are bigger than normal air molecules, it is harder for them to leak out. This means a tire filled with nitrogen will maintain air pressure longer. Therefore, they say, you’ll roll on tires that are always properly inflated, resulting in better fuel economy and longer tire life.

A normal tire filled with regular air loses an average 1 to 2 PSI (pounds per square inch) per month. It’s true that there is a slower loss from nitrogen-filled tires. But this improvement is slight — only about 1.3 PSI less over the course of an entire year, according to Consumer Reports. It’s not enough to make a true difference in gas mileage or tire wear for people driving passenger vehicles.

This is partly because air is already made up of 78 percent nitrogen and just under 21 percent oxygen, with the rest a mix of water vapor, carbon dioxide and other gases. When tires are filled from a nitrogen air pump this ups the percentage of N2 to between 93 and 95 percent. It’s never 100 percent.

Bottom line: Nitrogen will slow the amount of tire inflation loss to about one-third of what you’ll experience with air. This means instead of losing one to two PSI per month, you’ll lose ⅓ to ⅔ PSI per month. You’ll still need to check and top off your air roughly every other month to stay within the ideal inflation range. And you’ll spend far more than you’ll save on gas and tire tread life. You’re better off making simple tire maintenance part of your routine.
The difference in size between Nitrogen and Oxygen is only 8 picometers so I can’t see that making much of a difference. I would think that more air would leak out the bead seal rather than through the rubber.

So if you spend money on a Nitrogen fill maybe you could check your air pressure every eight weeks rather than once a month?

Nice to be rich.
Yeh, well we all can't live on the Ponderosa and have a fleet of cars....must be nice

Says the guy with a winter home in Florida…

driver100 · June 2022

ab348 said:

sda said:
Dealers charge $200 or so for the Nitrogen fill. A huge money maker. I find it interesting that large Tire Shops like DT don’t peddle Nitrogen filled tires.
That’s weird. Both the Caddy dealer and the Indy tire shop I use provide nitrogen as their standard fill, no extra charge.

It is the equivalent of Mop n Glo. Or like the RFT insurance BMW tried to sell....for $500, $1500 for protection in case a wheel is damaged to. Most people aren't knowledgeable and they fall for these scams.....they use fear tactics.

The only time I lose air is when I come back to Florida and the car sits for 7 months......on average 2 tires are down a pound, one 2 pounds and 1 is OK. When we were away for 18 months 3 were down 2 pounds, and 1 was down 1 pound. Oh, I forgot I do overfill them by 2 pounds each so they do lose about a pound every 2 months on average.

Nitrogen is kind of a scam, but I like the green caps. Another thing is, you get nitrogen but what happens when you need some air and you are out in the country on a country road....use an air pump?

benjaminh · June 2022

If you get new tires at Costco they throw in the nitrogen without any extra charge. Free rotations and balances are also included for the life of your tires.

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