customized by Porsche! Could this be what we're going to get here with the updated Legacy?
I think if Subaru can officially "attach" the Porsche name and/or image to their cars, that's great—as long as they don't also attach the Porsche price tag.
I didn't think did any outsourcing, I'd think it was just a common 3rd party tuner of sorts. Couldn't find the article though. Also side note, the Nissans have VDC technology from FHI in them and are using the VDC logos IIRC.
a Subaru-Porsche hookup is a natural. In fact, I can't think of a better collaboration. Both companies have so much in common.
Boy, can you imagine the impact that will have as an "image-maker" for Subaru! ) Sure hope they can keep the prices down though... I'm sure the Porsche logo affixed to the rear deck is worth at least $1K, probably more...
owned by VW or Audi, even though they do have a very strong relationship. Porsche has done work before with Subaru. The Blitzen is a Subaru-Porsche collaboration. Porsche has even done work with Harley Davidson, of all companies!
my dad's 1983 Audi Quattro (the original turbo 200 hp AWD monster - man that thing was fun, but I was only 14) had both VW and Porsche stamps on the valve cover. I've no clue what that means, if anything, but their relationship goes back at least that far.
I can't help but think of some of the possibilities here, and not just for Subaru...
As you may, or may not, be aware; VW is going to market a super-sportscar shortly. It will have either the W-8 or W12 engine. This car will be marketed directly against the Porsche 911. Surely Porsche can't be too happy with that thought.
If this Porsche/Subaru venture works out, Porsche may be thinking of marketing another brand along side Porsches in their showroom—if the current VW alliance goes south. Having a Porsche-influnced Subaru would offer a more "mainstream" (but still sporting) model on their showroom floor for those who prefer a sedan or wagon.
But wait you say, what about Audi? Good point, but remember Audi—even more so than Porsche—is closely aligned with VW. If VW does market that hyper-sports car, Porsche may want to end their relationship with both VW and Audi. It's unlikely, but it could happen.
If that does happen, they would have Subaru as a backup showroom model. Hmmm... sounds like a good plot for the next "Survivor" series... Think of all the alliances and cat-fights that this could produce...
The question is, how does GM fit into this, if at all?
Since this news broke just yesterday, my sense is that we won't really see much of this collaboration until the Legacy is redesigned for the '05 model year. Porsche could have quite an impact on the design of that new model. Anybody remember the Shelby Mustang? I wonder if we could end up with a Porsche-Subaru somewhat along the lines of a Shelby Mustang?
The constant talk of the necessity of "globalization" and consolidation in the auto industry raises the spectre of 20 different versions of the same Chevy and Ford cars with different badges. But maybe the globalization can occur among small independent firms instead? I'd be much happier hearing about Subaru-Porsche partnership than Subaru-GM, they're equals and they could get the benefits of consolidation without takeover.
I thought there were some kind of ties between VW/Audi and Porsche, but I'm not sure.
Any how, VW is going after Mercedes Benz. Piech got peeved when the A-class went after the Golf's market, so this is payback. VW goes luxury. W8 is just a start, then D1, supercar, etc.
Audi will remain sporty and attack BMW. There was even talk of splitting Audi from VW, but I doubt they will.
Porsche did suspension work for some of the limited edition WRXs. I can imagine their input in a coupe version, perhaps, and calling it the SVX, would make marketing sense. Me like!
But they didn't touch the engines. That means Subaru still has to come up with a suitable engine for the Legacy, if Porsche has input into that platform. Please, baby, that's my next car if they do.
Subaru is making a big deal about the Momo steering wheel and BBS wheels, so it follows that Porsche's input would be welcome.
1. This will boost the Subaru name brand...in terms of qulaity....... 2. At least it will mitigate the notoriety of partnering with GM. 3. It would be great if Subaru cut GM loose.... 4. The moment GM starts messing with Subaru product directly.......as it does with isuzu, suzuki, ford with mazda....Subaru will be doomed ! I will stop buying subies at that point.
1. FOr the first time, CR officially listed Outback in the SUV list. BOth limited & VDC are listed separately
2. What's that they always say that Subaru emergency handliing is tricky ? I believe that's why it has not been ranked as highly as it used to be.
3. Both OB & VDC are given higher than avg. relaiability....if you all remember,...when the comparison was made with highlander, randevous...they gave VDC avg reliability.
4. WRX listed as No.1 Sports car ? Did you all see it......it says WRX is excellent !
5. Though OB, VDC are listed in the 3rd, 4th position.....they are given excellent rating....
6. Still CR is in love with VW Passat. I get a feeling that are getting emotional these days about passat.
7. I believe, If subaru comes up with new LEGACY [non-permissible content removed]-kicking model ! It will capture the market big time !
It seems like I read a while back that the new VW SUV (called the Colorado???) is going to be built on the same platform that Porsche is using for its own SUV. As I recall neither truck is close to production, so wouldn't this mean that VW and Porsche are still relatively close? I don't know, but it seems like sharing that platform could start an even closer relationship between the two. Any thoughts?
Cayenne, as in pepper. I believe the VW and Porsche SUVs are about a year away from production.
Dr. Porsche designed the original VW for Hitler back in the 1930s. "Volkswagen" was known as the "people's car." The original "Porsche" cars were little more than modified VWs, which eventually evolved into the 911. So the ties between VW and Porsche are almost like "family" if you will. Still, I think the current Porsche company is totally separate from VW, unlike Audi, which is under the VW umbrella.
I was thinking that the Cayenne what Porsche called their version of it. I am pretty sure that VW used the term Colorado for their version at some point in concept form. As I recall they dropped the name because GM already bought the rights to it. Autoweek had an article on it a few months back. Regardless, it will be interesting to see how the whole thing pans out. I know who I'm routing for. Thanks for the history, I had long forgotten about the VW for Hitler.
I'm still waiting for my 2002 CR guide to arrive, but that's great news, sweet_subie, about the Outback getting above average reliability. I was very disappointed with their slip to average, but I guess they got the bugs out of the redesign by now, and the improved ratings are probably based on new data CR has obtained.
Reliability rules the car world for me, and this makes the OB an option for me again, next year when I car-shop again, whoohoo!
Chevy "heritage concept": Hope it's better than that drop-top '50 Chevy pickup-inspired thing.
Insightful comment on the Malibu v. Camry. GM really needs to improve its bread-and-butter lineup - in appearance, content and quality - so that others besides rental agencies will buy them. Can anyone remember when the Cavalier/Sunfire were last redesigned? I can't.
Best line of the piece: "But Fuji is jealous of its technology and wants to make sure it's used right." You go, Subaru.
I like this quote from Lutz in the article: "If alliances are used properly, they are a great way to go. But Fuji is jealous of its technology and wants to make sure it's used right."
Sounds like FHI isn't going to be such an easy mark for GM to exploit!
Apparently, he's not aware that the WRX is available in N. America. "..if anyone doubts the legitimacy of AWD, they should drive the 200-horsepower-plus European version of the Subaru WRX.."
I was just looking at some pictures on various web sites of the STX-Brat and noticed that the departure angles are very poor. Has anyone else noticed this.
I have been shopping for a new car for a while. The VDC is on the list so I read the subaru forum often, anyway...I was reading the thread on VW/Porche/Audi. IMHO they are all very much the same company from what I know. I think it goes back as far as WWII. I think VW (and Porche (I know VW and I think Porche)) were even involved in a war crimes lawsuit, they supposedly were both built with slave labor and the profits (multiplied over 45 years) were never paid. I don't remember the outcome, but it was a real case. Remember the kharman Gia (spelling?), VW or Porche?. The new bug supposedly has the same the frame and drivetrain as the boxster save for performance parts. VW/Audi is not worth even mentioning. At a minimum, Porche shares the same assembly line and parts bin.
The new bug shares the same platform with the Golf, not the Boxster. If fact, no current VW is any way related to the current Porsche lineup. And, while VW and Porsche share the same parentage, they are not the same company.
The current VW corporation has nothing to do with what may have happened in WW II. I hope you're not suggesting that VW owes reparations for whatever happened in WW II. To suggest that, is like suggesting that your ancestors may have had something to do with slavery here in the United States. Should you (or VW) be punished (or pay money) for something that your forefathers may have participated in, or supported? I think not.
Geez... I never thought that I would be discussing this on Thanksgiving, of all days...
the Blitzen and the Impreza Euro-type are a result of Porsche design involvement. I knew the Blitzen was, but the Impreza Euro-type was news to me. I found this bit of info on the "English" version of the SOJ site, under the Toyko Motor Show.
If these are examples of how we might expect Porsche to "massage" the current lineup, I'm all for it! )
to suggest that VW owes anything to anyone. I believe it was an actual lawsuit, and only mentioned to point out how long the relationship has been around. I was not really thinking people would take offense to the comments...not intended, and apologies to anyone who may have taken it so. Sometimes surfing and commentary flow without flow too easily without enough fore-thought.
Since I am leisurely shopping for a car, maybe I should wait for a Porche/Subaru joint venture, sounds like a winner.
No problem, and no offense taken. Sometimes when people mention those type of things, there is often a hidden motive lying below the surface.
As I had mentioned earlier, the VW was designed for Hitler by Dr. Porsche in the 1930s. The first car to wear the "Porsche" label appeared in, I think(?), 1949. It was based on a modified VW platform. So yes, the ties between VW and Porsche are long and deep.
Actually, VW has paid reparations for slave labor during WWII as has many other companies, and rightly so. My mother-in-law was a slave laborer for Krups (then manufacturing armaments, now coffee makers), and both my parents were in the ghettos and concentration camps, and my mother will get reparations until her death. Personally, I believe that children of survivors should get them after their deaths...some of the stories I heard from my parents when I was growing up scared the s*** out of me.
I guess then we should also pay for generations of slaves here in the US too? Everyone should just get a ton of $ for generations and generations for anyone who has ever been wronged by anyone else. Give me a break.
Comments
The bottom cushion as well as the seat back was divided so you lifted either side and folded the cushion, viola flat floor and still room for three.
Cheers Pat.
I think if Subaru can officially "attach" the Porsche name and/or image to their cars, that's great—as long as they don't also attach the Porsche price tag.
Bob
http://www.veh-tech.net/
-mike
-Colin
Bob
Full Stories for November 16
..Mike
..Mike
Boy, can you imagine the impact that will have as an "image-maker" for Subaru!
Bob
-mike
Bob
-mike
In any event, Porsche has for years done work with other car companies, Subaru being one.
Bob
Jim
As you may, or may not, be aware; VW is going to market a super-sportscar shortly. It will have either the W-8 or W12 engine. This car will be marketed directly against the Porsche 911. Surely Porsche can't be too happy with that thought.
If this Porsche/Subaru venture works out, Porsche may be thinking of marketing another brand along side Porsches in their showroom—if the current VW alliance goes south. Having a Porsche-influnced Subaru would offer a more "mainstream" (but still sporting) model on their showroom floor for those who prefer a sedan or wagon.
But wait you say, what about Audi? Good point, but remember Audi—even more so than Porsche—is closely aligned with VW. If VW does market that hyper-sports car, Porsche may want to end their relationship with both VW and Audi. It's unlikely, but it could happen.
If that does happen, they would have Subaru as a backup showroom model. Hmmm... sounds like a good plot for the next "Survivor" series... Think of all the alliances and cat-fights that this could produce...
The question is, how does GM fit into this, if at all?
Since this news broke just yesterday, my sense is that we won't really see much of this collaboration until the Legacy is redesigned for the '05 model year. Porsche could have quite an impact on the design of that new model. Anybody remember the Shelby Mustang? I wonder if we could end up with a Porsche-Subaru somewhat along the lines of a Shelby Mustang?
It's interesting food for thought...
Bob
Any how, VW is going after Mercedes Benz. Piech got peeved when the A-class went after the Golf's market, so this is payback. VW goes luxury. W8 is just a start, then D1, supercar, etc.
Audi will remain sporty and attack BMW. There was even talk of splitting Audi from VW, but I doubt they will.
Porsche did suspension work for some of the limited edition WRXs. I can imagine their input in a coupe version, perhaps, and calling it the SVX, would make marketing sense. Me like!
But they didn't touch the engines. That means Subaru still has to come up with a suitable engine for the Legacy, if Porsche has input into that platform. Please, baby, that's my next car if they do.
Subaru is making a big deal about the Momo steering wheel and BBS wheels, so it follows that Porsche's input would be welcome.
-juice
This will boost the Subaru name brand...in terms of qulaity.......
2.
At least it will mitigate the notoriety of partnering with GM.
3.
It would be great if Subaru cut GM loose....
4.
The moment GM starts messing with Subaru product directly.......as it does with isuzu, suzuki, ford with mazda....Subaru will be doomed ! I will stop buying subies at that point.
1. FOr the first time, CR officially listed Outback in the SUV list. BOth limited & VDC are listed separately
2. What's that they always say that Subaru emergency handliing is tricky ? I believe that's why it has not been ranked as highly as it used to be.
3. Both OB & VDC are given higher than avg. relaiability....if you all remember,...when the comparison was made with highlander, randevous...they gave VDC avg reliability.
4.
WRX listed as No.1 Sports car ? Did you all see it......it says WRX is excellent !
5.
Though OB, VDC are listed in the 3rd, 4th position.....they are given excellent rating....
6.
Still CR is in love with VW Passat. I get a feeling that are getting emotional these days about passat.
7. I believe,
If subaru comes up with new LEGACY [non-permissible content removed]-kicking model ! It will capture the market big time !
I hope the new legacy is bigger than the current one.
-mike
Dr. Porsche designed the original VW for Hitler back in the 1930s. "Volkswagen" was known as the "people's car." The original "Porsche" cars were little more than modified VWs, which eventually evolved into the 911. So the ties between VW and Porsche are almost like "family" if you will. Still, I think the current Porsche company is totally separate from VW, unlike Audi, which is under the VW umbrella.
Bob
Matt
You're right about the name Colorado and VW.
Bob
Reliability rules the car world for me, and this makes the OB an option for me again, next year when I car-shop again, whoohoo!
--Bart
Bob
http://www.auto.com/industry/iwirx17_20011117.htm
Chevy "heritage concept": Hope it's better than that drop-top '50 Chevy pickup-inspired thing.
Insightful comment on the Malibu v. Camry. GM really needs to improve its bread-and-butter lineup - in appearance, content and quality - so that others besides rental agencies will buy them. Can anyone remember when the Cavalier/Sunfire were last redesigned? I can't.
Best line of the piece: "But Fuji is jealous of its technology and wants to make sure it's used right." You go, Subaru.
Ed
Sounds like FHI isn't going to be such an easy mark for GM to exploit!
-Frank P.
-Frank P.
Ed
-mike
its been nearly two weeks since you posted that teaser about new info for the above models. Any news??
Stephen
"..if anyone doubts the legitimacy of AWD, they should drive the 200-horsepower-plus European version of the Subaru WRX.."
Dennis
Bob
Stephen
Stephen (in Seattle)
Bob
Bob
I'm waiting on information and have been assured I will get it "early" to provide you folks information. Just nothing yet.
Patti
FHI made 133 million profit first half, helped by strong US auto sales. Should be enough money there to Federalize the GTB wagon!
Dennis
The current VW corporation has nothing to do with what may have happened in WW II. I hope you're not suggesting that VW owes reparations for whatever happened in WW II. To suggest that, is like suggesting that your ancestors may have had something to do with slavery here in the United States. Should you (or VW) be punished (or pay money) for something that your forefathers may have participated in, or supported? I think not.
Geez... I never thought that I would be discussing this on Thanksgiving, of all days...
Bob
If these are examples of how we might expect Porsche to "massage" the current lineup, I'm all for it!
Bob
Since I am leisurely shopping for a car, maybe I should wait for a Porche/Subaru joint venture, sounds like a winner.
-mike
As I had mentioned earlier, the VW was designed for Hitler by Dr. Porsche in the 1930s. The first car to wear the "Porsche" label appeared in, I think(?), 1949. It was based on a modified VW platform. So yes, the ties between VW and Porsche are long and deep.
Bob
Bob
-mike