I guess SOA feared Patti might let the name slip, and have kept her hostage in some dark dungeon (or a cave) deep below the surface at SOA headquarters.
I think the two are directly related. The lack of acclaim is infered to be related to the quirkiness, and the critics are scared to approve of anything a little different. Again, the critics are idiots more often than not, particularly in the market segment populated by the Subaru line of cars, and now, possibly trucks.
"But when it comes to the GT Legacy Limited sedan, I disagree with critics who say that Subaru's interiors have a dime-store quality. That's a valid knock against the 270-horsepower Subaru Integra WRX pocket rocket, which is designed primarily for weekend racers who tend to care less about creature comforts. But it's not applicable to this week's test car."
It's true, the interior materials in the Legacy are definitely a step (or two) up from what the Forester and Impreza get. In fact I'd be perfectly happy if the 2003 Forester got the same materials as the Legacy.
Had a heart-to-heart talk with the wife, and she really doesn't want a minivan. Oh well, just when I found a buying service that discounts Odysseys (after a long, long wait).
So that makes the Pilot very interesting. Styling is very derivative, safe, but that's Honda for you. It does look boxy and practical, roomy, with more cargo space behind the 3rd seat than the Explorer or Rendezvous, or MDX for that matter.
One big issue: it definitely looks like an SUV, unlike the MDX, which looks like a minivan crossover. I see some hints of a CR-V, but the C- and D-pillar remind me of an old Jeep Grand Cherokee, and the way the hood wraps around the grille reminds me of some Audis.
It's not pretty, but it's not ugly either. That's all Honda needed for the wait lists to get really long, too.
That GX470 is a real beauty. You think I can buy one for half price if I smile a lot? ;-)
So far I don't mind the way the FHI-GM partership is developing - i.e. no spoiling Subie originality with GM mass-market cra.. I mean stuff, but instead, hints of Subaru technology in GM's new cars. This item is in addition to all we've heard about AWD sharing. http://www.autonews.com/files/2002stories/solstice106.htm It's nice to see the WRX mentioned alongside the Corvette, anyway. --Bart
there are far more pixs on this site than what Edmunds has—of all the concepts and production cars. Click on "Latest images." This has been updated perhaps 3-4 times JUST TODAY!
I'm still catching up with the last few from the LA show. Here goes, with my comments:
Ford Fusion: don't bother selling it in the USA, the Escape makes this little ute redundant. Focus (pardon the pun) efforts on improving quality of existing models.
Montero EVO: boy, that thing is UGLY! ARGH! What an eye sore, Aztek has a new rival for ugliness! It makes the Isuzu VehiCross seem conservative!
Acura CL: 6 speed, LSD too.
Neon: I say put that powertrain in a GT Cruiser, in fact I'm sure they will. Lots of people simply will not buy a car named Neon. They should offer a spoiler delete for those that don't need a basket handle.
MPV: 5 speed auto (Jatco, not Ford CD4E thankfully), 200hp, traction control, and better mileage make it a contender.
Jetta GLI/Beetle S: both have 6 speeds and stability control. GLI could be a good value, too.
Notice a pattern here? What Subaru considered cutting edge a couple of years ago is now commonplace. The VDC system ought to be offered on lesser models, and forget the premium price, these are mainstream competitors. More gears in both trannies now won't even be seen as cutting edge, just keeping up with the pioneers.
Dennis, I read the article twice (print & web) and missed that both times. Looks like Warren Brown is a victim of his spell checker. He just had a kidney transplant, so I'll cut him some slack.
I'll try to get caught up with you folks tonight (long story about why I haven't been here much). Anyway, make sure you check out Subaru.com tonight after 6:00. Look towards the lower left of the screen for new product information!
It does look good, and very much like the ST-X concept.
The cladding is still a bit much for me, and I doubt, judging by the looks, that I will be happy in terms of towing. Keeping my fingers crossed...
The wheelbase doesn't look to be increased, and there may(?) be less rear overhang than the ST-X. I like the chrome tubing on the bed much better than huge sailpanel on the Chevy Avalanche.
does look shorter from that perspective, but might just be in the angles. Yes, bring on the specifics!! Does anybody have a link to any live broadband video from the show? I'm coming up empty.
To put critics in perpective, just remember that the opinion of a critic is just the opinion of one person and in the scheme of things that does not amount to a hill of beans.
And I was going to say something to that point during my posts above, but then I got to thinking about all the times you can read between the lines and see that they are trying to not anger the Hondas and Toyotas of the world because they are so powerful in the politics of the auto industry, and I decided to just call them idiots instead...
didn't see a price either, but I do see the Baja. patti, I know you can't comment but I sure hope that the 2.5L is only for the first model year. I am shocked that this truck didn't debut with an option to have the 3.0L H6.
I'm not simply trying to stir the pot, but am sincerely curious:
Do you truly like the looks of the Baja? Or do you appreciate the functionality of such a vehicle? Or is it simply that it's a Subaru product?
I find the Baja rather odd looking, bordering on ugly. The cladding appears overdone, especially over and behind the rear wheels. And, unfortunately, as some have alluded to, the use of the 2.5L takes away some of the utility of the vehicle (i.e., towing).
Drawing on Juice's previous analogy, if this vehicle had a Kia badge on it, would you still find it appealing?
Yes it is ugly. But Subarus are high quality cars, fun to drive, and with very high utility. That's all that I care about, and I'd buy this "cruck" right away...
... if it weren't for the fact that I'm newly married and my wife will refuse to ride in my car if she deems it ugly. She already ruled out the Outback and the Legacy Wagon and I have no doubt the Baja will share that fate.
Thank goodness my Forester still passes. And so does the WRX. Hmmmm... :-) --Bart
I basically agree with you. I also think that there is MUCH to much rear overhang. It's not Aztek ugly, but it's getting mighty close. On the other hand, I'm definitely not in the target demographic for such a product. Also, unless it is MUCH lighter than it looks, 165 hp just isn't going to do it IMHO.
I'm guessing about $27k - same as the Outback Ltd. range.
Have to agree, the tail looks crude. Well, maybe like the bugeyed WRX it will grow on us. 8-)
No H6. Maybe they haven't figure out a MT to mate it with. Or there aren't enough of H6s in production to go around. Hehe... maybe the 2.5l SC concept is still alive.
• Towing probably no better than an Outback??
• Flash-only web site which I can't access!
Reading between the lines
This doesn't bode well for the '03 Outback or Legacy. We're all hoping that the H-6 will migrate down into lesser Outbacks. Well, if the Baja doesn't get the H-6, do really think we will see it in lesser Outbacks?
I guess it will appeal to those who want something different. However, it's not what I had hoped for.
Comments
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_033046
Lexus GX 470
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_033120
TONS of photos on that Wieck link!
http://www.wieck.com/public/index.html
Bob
I bet this is the basis for the new 4Runner, which is due next fall.
Bob
http://toyota.com/html/about/news/archive/press_release/product/docs/2002/20020106a_gx470.jsp
Bob
Bob
<< The 2003 Ford Expedition should draw critical acclaim, but not the quirky '03 Subaru Baja. >>
Bob
Jim
Bob
--Bart
Jim
-Dennis
Bob
http://www.vtec.net/news/
Ross
Finding Solace in Sensibility by Warren Brown
Washington Post, Sunday, January 6, 2002; Page N01
Excerpt about the interior:
"But when it comes to the GT Legacy Limited sedan, I disagree with critics who say that Subaru's interiors have a dime-store quality. That's a valid knock against the 270-horsepower Subaru Integra WRX pocket rocket, which is designed primarily for weekend racers who tend to care less about creature comforts. But it's not applicable to this week's test car."
..Mike
..Mike
-Dennis
Had a heart-to-heart talk with the wife, and she really doesn't want a minivan. Oh well, just when I found a buying service that discounts Odysseys (after a long, long wait).
So that makes the Pilot very interesting. Styling is very derivative, safe, but that's Honda for you. It does look boxy and practical, roomy, with more cargo space behind the 3rd seat than the Explorer or Rendezvous, or MDX for that matter.
One big issue: it definitely looks like an SUV, unlike the MDX, which looks like a minivan crossover. I see some hints of a CR-V, but the C- and D-pillar remind me of an old Jeep Grand Cherokee, and the way the hood wraps around the grille reminds me of some Audis.
It's not pretty, but it's not ugly either. That's all Honda needed for the wait lists to get really long, too.
That GX470 is a real beauty. You think I can buy one for half price if I smile a lot? ;-)
-juice
http://www.autonews.com/files/2002stories/solstice106.htm
It's nice to see the WRX mentioned alongside the Corvette, anyway.
--Bart
-juice
http://www.wieck.com/public/index.html
I have it set that the "most recent" images are on page 1. The further back you go, the further back it was posted. Right now there are 128 pages!
Bob
Bob
Ford Fusion: don't bother selling it in the USA, the Escape makes this little ute redundant. Focus (pardon the pun) efforts on improving quality of existing models.
Montero EVO: boy, that thing is UGLY! ARGH! What an eye sore, Aztek has a new rival for ugliness! It makes the Isuzu VehiCross seem conservative!
Acura CL: 6 speed, LSD too.
Neon: I say put that powertrain in a GT Cruiser, in fact I'm sure they will. Lots of people simply will not buy a car named Neon. They should offer a spoiler delete for those that don't need a basket handle.
MPV: 5 speed auto (Jatco, not Ford CD4E thankfully), 200hp, traction control, and better mileage make it a contender.
Jetta GLI/Beetle S: both have 6 speeds and stability control. GLI could be a good value, too.
Notice a pattern here? What Subaru considered cutting edge a couple of years ago is now commonplace. The VDC system ought to be offered on lesser models, and forget the premium price, these are mainstream competitors. More gears in both trannies now won't even be seen as cutting edge, just keeping up with the pioneers.
-juice
juice, what buying service?
..Mike
Click on "Baja" on left of screen.
Bob
http://www.media.subaru.com./
Patti
Jim
It does look good, and very much like the ST-X concept.
The cladding is still a bit much for me, and I doubt, judging by the looks, that I will be happy in terms of towing. Keeping my fingers crossed...
The wheelbase doesn't look to be increased, and there may(?) be less rear overhang than the ST-X. I like the chrome tubing on the bed much better than huge sailpanel on the Chevy Avalanche.
Yeah, we need "specifics" now!
Bob
Jim
Cheers Pat.
-Dave
Jim
Has the price been announced? Can't find it on the Subaru site. I guess if that keeps the price down it's OK.
--Bart
-Colin
Do you truly like the looks of the Baja? Or do you appreciate the functionality of such a vehicle? Or is it simply that it's a Subaru product?
I find the Baja rather odd looking, bordering on ugly. The cladding appears overdone, especially over and behind the rear wheels. And, unfortunately, as some have alluded to, the use of the 2.5L takes away some of the utility of the vehicle (i.e., towing).
Drawing on Juice's previous analogy, if this vehicle had a Kia badge on it, would you still find it appealing?
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
... if it weren't for the fact that I'm newly married and my wife will refuse to ride in my car if she deems it ugly. She already ruled out the Outback and the Legacy Wagon and I have no doubt the Baja will share that fate.
Thank goodness my Forester still passes. And so does the WRX. Hmmmm... :-)
--Bart
-mike
Ross
Ken
Have to agree, the tail looks crude. Well, maybe like the bugeyed WRX it will grow on us. 8-)
No H6. Maybe they haven't figure out a MT to mate it with. Or there aren't enough of H6s in production to go around. Hehe... maybe the 2.5l SC concept is still alive.
-Dave
• No dual-range tranny.
• Continues with hokey OWL tires.
• Towing probably no better than an Outback??
• Flash-only web site which I can't access!
Reading between the lines
This doesn't bode well for the '03 Outback or Legacy. We're all hoping that the H-6 will migrate down into lesser Outbacks. Well, if the Baja doesn't get the H-6, do really think we will see it in lesser Outbacks?
I guess it will appeal to those who want something different. However, it's not what I had hoped for.
Bob
http://prnewswire.com/
Type the word Subaru in the "search" field. There is a press release from Subaru, detailing the specifics.
Bob
As long as the laid-off Aztek designers who apparently designed the Baja stay away from this one.
At what show will the 03 forester be revealed? Does anyone know yet?
--Bart
Towing will be the same or worse than the outback
Dual range tranny not there was a given.
No H6 = bad.
It' basically an e-camino Outback, the only good thing is the gated mid-section was retained, if I read it correctly.
Other than that it's nothing special.
In the pictures the jetski on the back makes it squat pretty badly in the back! That is horrible!
-mike
After seeing the Baja, I'm lowering my hopes for the new Forester. I'm sure it too won't be what I had been hoping for.
Bob
<< The 2003 Ford Expedition should draw critical acclaim, but not the quirky '03 Subaru Baja. >>
Bob
So, towing cap is 2000lbs?
-Dave
Bob