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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,732
    I have the HPT volvo that Juice mentioned. And I did get it with an automatic. Nice part about this vehicle is that it hits its peak torque at 1800 rpms. To go along with that, this is by far the best auto tranny I've ever driven. Extremely responsive and downshifts without even asking it to (in sport mode). In contrast, I test drove the stick and didn't like it. I felt the volvo manual was about the most unintuitive stick I've ever driven. I'm VERY happy with the auto (never thought I'd say that).
    So, by my count, it CAN be done (driveable turbo with an auto) and HAS been done. Now if they could just do it in a cheaper vehicle .... oh, and with AWD ...

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob says he likes to check out Benzes because the technology tends to trickle down. Interesting.

    I test drove a XC, and agree the auto tranny is quite good. In fact, I saw no reason to shift manually, not at all.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Funnny thing I found out recently. All commercially registered trailers require electric brakes as opposed to surge brakes. I was suprised when I read that. I was looking for a trailer for the XT6 MT with surge brakes so I wouldn't have to deal with re-wiring my truck :( Oh well.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Usually all the high-tech stuff appears on cars like MB and BMW first. Keeping tabs on what those folks are up to often is a peek into the future of what might occur on mainstream brands, down the road [pun intended ;)].

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Where've you been, Bob? It's been quiet lately.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    with "real" work. ;)

    Bob
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    Wow......these posts really add up fast if you're away for a few days.....regarding the Exiga, 100+ posts back, here's a somewhat more flattering pic.


    http://www.motorshow.or.jp/eng/motorshow/motorshow_32/Guide/Concept/SUB-EXIGA-E.html


    I guess Chrysler is going to beat subaru to the mkt. with their Pacifica, a virtual steal of the Exiga concept.....an all-wheel drive, flexible 6 seat sports tourer just about covers all the bases for me.

  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    http://www.smh.com.au/drive/content/980116/cover/cover1.html
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    another Exiga link

    http://www.autoreview.ru/exhibit/num21/tokio4.htm
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Can you imagine trying to market the "Daihatsu Naked" here in the United States?

    Bob
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    To translate from Russian to English, or other languages, put the site's URL through http://babelfish.altavista.com/.

    Hope this helps!

    KarenS
    Host
    Owners Clubs
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    And the trend appears to be growing. I've often wondered if Subaru had a boxer diesel, if their world-wide sales would be better? I know Subaru would like to have more sales in Europe. Having a boxer diesel (turbo-diesel!) would certainly help.


    Bob


    http://industryclick.com/microsites/Newsarticle.asp?newsarticleid=281946&srid=10250&instanceid=5216&pageid=1120&magazineid=1004&siteid=26

  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    It must have been pretty close to production, or this is media hype. From the Sydney Morning Herald link:
    "To be launched late next year, the Exiga uses the rolling platform of Subaru's as-yet unreleased Liberty replacement, codenamed 66L. The underpinnings bear virtually no resemblance to the current Liberty, with a new multi-link rear axle and double-wishbone front suspension."

    The motor show link also says 5AT. I wonder if the plug was pulled at the last minute because of money.

    -Dennnis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In that photos, the Exiga resembles the Forester, especially in profile. Check out the pillars, doors, and roof rack - very similar. They say it's 185" long, so add 11" to my Forester, call it a Grand, and put in the 3rd seat. I'll be first in line. Don't forget the H6 and rear multilink suspension.

    Read the text, though, and basically it was the prequel to the Outback VDC. Sort of.

    Bob: it's funny because Europeans don't even want the V6 Escapes and Tributes that are being offered for sale. Mazda fought with Ford because it was getting too many V6s and not enough diesels. But I still bet the opposite would be true here.

    -juice
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    whatever reason the Exiga was pulled, in hindsight, it was obviously ahead of its time, by about 4-5 years. In addition to Chrysler's Pacifica, Ford has their Crosstour, Peugeot has their 307SW (a slightly smaller variation on the theme) and I'm sure others are to follow. I wonder if subaru still wants a piece of the action?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's true of so many Subaru cars. Imagine the SVX coming out today, with so many baby boomers becoming empty nesters, and wanting AWD.

    We won't see an Exiga, because the GM joint venture is in the same niche.

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    So is that the format for the GM-JV.....six passenger touring AWD hybrid wagon?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They say it's a sport-utility wagon (SUW) like the Outback, except bigger and with three rows of seats. So it ought to seat 6. AWD is a given.

    I think it'll use a new GM Lambda (IIRC?) platform, but hopefully Subaru will take the lead in development, and the engine will be a boxer.

    -juice
  • kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    re: Exiga

    "The concept car Exiga is a Legacy of the future. It's a long (4700 mm) automobile, featuring 3 rows of seats for 6 passengers, multifunctional central console with 4 LCD screens, and H4 with direct fuel injection system."

    The arcticle also refers to "charged" Legacy Touring Wagon RFRB which they find very comaparable to Volvo V70R AWD...
  • kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    "It gives you impression that the car was turned inside out: all body elements, seams, hinges, bolts -- all are exposed. It actually looks more like a rugged military vehicle than a "civilized" car. It reminds you of such famous cars as Citroen Mehari and Volkswagen Kubelwagen. But don't hurry up for off-roading adventure in this car: its engine has only 0.660 L of displacement, and develops a whopping 62 hp, with only FWD offered. And the size of this vehicle won't satisfy military or even civilian requirements, with length of 3.3 m and width of 1.5 m"
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you buy one, you could say "I'd rather get Naked"!

    -juice
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Most of the mags have carried small articles and photos over the past two months on this proposed '04 model, and I must say that I think it certainly looks great. Before buying the Ody, we spent time in a T&C, which will 'donate' much of the interior and running gear. Chrysler is also finally going to ditch the somewhat 'agricultural' pushrod engines for the 250hp 3.5l. You could certainly do a lot worse as a starting point - it should do very well in a suddenly wagon-hungry marketplace.

    I noticed from Bob's link that the proposed Subaru is shorter and several hundred pounds lighter than the current OB. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad with the big H4.

    Steve
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Hoping that we'll see it at the Milwaukee show tomorrow. Didn't get a chance to check it out last week at the Chicago show. 250hp and AWD - sounds good to me.

    The engine is made right next door to my work (Kenosha, WI) at a newly constructed addition to the engine plant (use to only build 4.0 liters for Jeeps).

    -Brian
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Saw a photo of the Pacifica in my new R&T and I like the way it looks. The grille is big, but it's accented nicely with the headlights.

    250HP and AWD? Too bad it's a Chrysler, otherwise I would give it a hard look.

    Ken
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I agree: 250hp and AWD sounds good, but then throw in the fact that it's Chrysler and it becomes uncertain. I at least would like to see it in the flesh, paper sometimes doesn't do a body good.

    -Brian
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Is it not built on the caravan platform? Which means no Indy rear, and handling like a boat. No thanks, especially with that quality DC stuff :)

    -mike
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Hmmm. Twist beam rear axle or whatever they call a non-independant suspension these days? Not for me.

    Sounds like the PT Cruiser. Looks good, but the underpinings are less than stellar.

    Ken
  • bblachabblacha Member Posts: 160
    Maybe it's not great, but Chrysler still makes the impression of being the best engineered US-brand. The PT Cruiser, Intrepid, etc. have decent reliability histories.

    And now with the newly announced DC parts sharing deal, the Pacifica could borrow components heavily from the German parts bin.

    This car is definitely one to watch closely. It could be everything the PT Cruiser wishes it becomes when it grows up. Chrysler design, Daimler engineering and domestic-brand prices could make this a very exciting entry into the new touring-wagon market. (I sound like a brochure.)

    --Bart
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    My neighbor has a big family: himself, one large wife, three kids and a sexy au pair. Lease is running out on the Durango. I suggested he think about leasing a Pacifica. If not that, what makes the most sense today? Ody and MPV? (Sorry if this is off-topic.)
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Bart,

    I agree. Chrysler is probably one of the best US-engineered brands out there today.

    My inlaws drive a 300M and it is quite nice. I'd like less plastickyness on the interior for 30K vehicle, but it's been good to them so far.

    Ken
  • bblachabblacha Member Posts: 160
    I'd say, buy a Miata for himself and the au pair, and an MPV for the wife and kids...

    If that's out of the question, the Ody would probably be best at accommodating all these people. I've gone on road trips with big families in minivans, and it's amazing how the huge available space helps preserve everyone's sanity, so they can move around easily and stay out of each other's personal space. I don't think a wagon can ever provide that, even with three rows.

    Or maybe we're just a touchy family.

    --Bart
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Oh I'd definitely recommend leasing any DC product. That way after 3 years or so, if it doesn't pan out, you can always bail out! American cars are great for leases.

    -mike
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    Thanks. He's actually had a decent experience with this beast of a Durango, even though he drives from one gas station to the next, so I'm keeping a civil tongue in my mouth about Chrysler stuff. And there sure aren't a lot of 6-passenger Subies on the market.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Chrysler has the best design team among the Big 2.5. I'm sure the Pacifica will have a broad appeal.

    But I'm picky about certain things, quality being near the top. I'd have to wait until it had broken DCX's long string of poor reliability. Note that the PT Cruiser has - CR gives it the highest rating possible, believe it or not. If Pacifica can match that, and still comes with a 7/70 warranty, lots of people will bite.

    Several friends have owned their vans, and the trannys don't seem to live past 80k miles, with expensive rebuilds. We'll see.

    Some of the seats I sampled don't seem comfy. Also, prices are high once you add equipment. The options list is so long it's ridiculous. And why seating for 6? Pilot will seat 8.

    Among vans, I like the Odyssey and the MPV. Following the Odyssey Problems thread was probably a bad idea, but honestly, "Honda reliability" doesn't seem to mean what it used to. They're still average, though.

    The MPV looks promising. They just added a 200hp engine and 5 speed tranny. Should feel sportier than the Ody, and it's cheaper and more reliable, per CR.

    -juice
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    Thanks juice. Pilot seats 8? The neighbor only has 3 kids, but they keep coming. If I were married to my neighbor's wife I'd be messin' with the au pair. But this guy is a champ and he might father another legitimate kid or two yet. When we go to the Mpls Auto Show in a few weeks I'll point him toward the Pilot. And I'm glad you second the notion that MPV is coming on.
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    re: subearu "Subaru Crew: Photo Gallery" Feb 23, 2002 8:17pm

    No '03 Forester or Brat, no Pacifica. It's way smaller than the Chicago show - my wife & I toured the show in a little under 2 hours. Very easy to walk around, get pics, and of course sit inside and play with all the buttons & switches!

    Pictures of the Aztec w/ camper option, for those just dying to see one. The Vibe was there; my wife said it made her feel like she was in a PT Cruiser.

    The WRX was there in wagon & sedan form - both with perfect looking intercoolers (unlike the Chicago pics).

    Saw a $95k Jaguar convertible at the show. Would someone shopping for a $95k car even be at an autoshow?!?!


    We spent alot of time playing around with the Odyssey & MPV. My wife couldn't retract the 'magic' 3rd seat on the Honda - it's heavy. I saw others having some trouble with the weight too. Probably rules that out if indeed we go with a minivan. She liked the MPV. Heard alot of people comparing the two. The 3rd seat was still a bit heavy for my wife, but she was able to retract it. Stopped on the way home and took one for a drive (an LX). Seemed like at least one of the tires was a bit off balance (or maybe a flat spot?), which caused a bit of vibration in the ride. I probably would prefer the ES anyway; will have to drive one in the near future. 5sp auto is smooth; couldn't tell when 5th came on. The 200hp seemed to move it along well; didn't feel heavy and responded well to acceleration. The LX isn't bad, but that vibration made it hard to critique the ride. Will save judgement for the ES.


    Also saw the Chrysler Java concept - to which my wife called 'cute'. Was that the type of comment they want to hear?

    -Brian
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    Great pictures again, Brian. What's the story on the Honda hatchback?
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I just thought it was the Civic with a VTEC motor, to kind of compete with the Focus hatch, etc. I'll see if I grabbed any brochures on it.

    -Brian
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Motor Trend has a two page spread on it, complete with specifications, interior photos, etc. At 194", it slots between the reg & grand Caravan, so it is a fairly big wagon.

    I leased my '97 GC Sport because of my concerns on reliability. At 3yrs and 44k miles it was a good time to move on, but I still look back favorably on the van. I had no complaints about the handling. The sport pkg fixed the 'wallow' found on lesser models, and was way better that the competition of the time. But this time around we felt that the Honda had one-up'ed DC.

    Still, I am willing to bet that the Pacifica will make an ocean sized splash!!!

    Steve
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Load leveling IRS is part of the package.

    Steve
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I don't think (?) this has been posted before. One disturbing fact: it reportedly has less ground clearance than the outgoing model. :(

    Good news: a wider track and retuned suspension, reshaped rear seats for better comfort, and smaller rear strut towers.

    Bob

    http://www.auto-asia.com/viewcontent.asp?pk=6792
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    over in the I-Club reportedly heard from some GM rep that Pontiac may (?) get a re-badged version of the WRX.

    Also, on that same thread, A Subie owner from North Dakota reports that there is only one Subaru dealer in the entire state of North Dakota. I find that incredible, especially in light of the harsh winters of that state. This leads me to wonder about other rural states, in terms of Subaru dealer representation? Patti, is there a listing of Subaru dealers, state by state?

    Bob
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    On the Subaru home page at the top right corner, just put in the state

    Serge


    http://www.subaru.com/home.html

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Brian: your camera didn't break? ;-)

    Bob: that's a mistake. They say it has less ground clearance, and then list it as 200mm right there, which is 7.9" (more than now). Further down they say 190mm, which is the same 7.5" as now. So it's the same or better, not worse.

    You can search for dealers on Subaru.com. I'm not sure if it's by state, but it might satisfy your curiosity. I think Alaska only has 1 also, and people drive down to Seattle to get better pricing.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well it doesn't suprise me at all. ND is a typical mid-western state IMHO, lots of "buy american" mentality running around, of course not realizing that a lot of "american" cars aren't even made here!

    -mike
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    The problem with ND is there are no people! Just a lot of cows. That, plus ND is pickup country.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I guess the cows drive pickups??

    Bob
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    And those cows have bovine loyalty. They all buy American.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No, dogs drive Cadillac Escalade EXTs, horses ride in the back. Check out the new C&D to see what I'm talking about.

    -juice
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