Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

tjc78 · April 2023

@jmonroe1 said:
C’mon guys, let’s get back to dishwashers.

jmonroe

I’ll bite… just today my wife said that the 10 year old basic Frigidaire at the shore works better and is easier to load than our top line 3 rack Kitchen Aid at home. While I totally disagree I just shrugged my shoulders.

explorerx4 · April 2023

I find the top row in our 3 row dishwasher to be a big pain.
Unless you put something in there that is totally flat, it's full of water when you unload.

jmonroe1 · April 2023

explorerx4 said:
I find the top row in our 3 row dishwasher to be a big pain.
Unless you put something in there that is totally flat, it's full of water when you unload.

————————————————
Why not turn those items over?

jmonroe

tjc78 · April 2023

@explorerx4 said:
I find the top row in our 3 row dishwasher to be a big pain.
Unless you put something in there that is totally flat, it's full of water when you unload.

Ours has a spot for long utensils and has a deeper side that holds coffee mugs and small bowls perfectly.

The design does limit the second row a bit which is what bothers my wife.

snakeweasel · April 2023

@ab348 said:
In big organizations and especially government organizations there is little to no reason for any individual to do something outside the lines to help a client because they are not rewarded (and in fact may be penalized) for doing so.

Let me go down memory lane if I might. Maybe 10+ years before I got to work with the provincial liquor board here, I got into playing golf. One day I was in one of our liquor stores and they had a display for Dewar’s scotch with a golf theme that included a Dewar’s golf umbrella. I saw it and since Dewar’s was my scotch of choice at the time I immediately wanted one. Eventually a store clerk came by and I asked him how I could get one - I would have been happy to buy one. “You can’t “ he said dismissively before walking off, which made me very unhappy. Years later I discovered that such promo items were routinely taken home by store staff as the company reps used them to gain favor in stores in an under-the-table way, so maybe he wanted it for himself, who knows.

That attitude was typical once I joined the company and we worked hard to instill a better kind of customer focus in store staff because it was more than just making a sale, though that was important. But so is building an image of an organization that values customers for other reasons and doing the whole “surprise and delight” thing when dealing with them. It’s difficult especially in government organizations but we found ways to reward good deeds like that that worked well. Years later now, sadly most of those have been dismantled as government didn’t like that kind of thinking. The level of service and engagement in stores here is now far less than it was, unfortunately.

The moral of the story is that big bureaucratic organizations do not like doing things for one-off situations even if they screwed something up.

A lifetime ago I worked at a liquor store and we did routinely took those display items home after they were no longer needed. I will tell you this, those items were in no way high quality. They were made just for the display and to last the amount of time that it was supposed to be up. My guess is that umbrella would have started to fall apart under use rather quickly.

ab348 · April 2023

snakeweasel said:

A lifetime ago I worked at a liquor store and we did routinely took those display items home after they were no longer needed. I will tell you this, those items were in no way high quality. They were made just for the display and to last the amount of time that it was supposed to be up. My guess is that umbrella would have started to fall apart under use rather quickly.

Well, it was a branded umbrella manufacturer so I would guess you don't find those an any street corner. When I would see company reps at golf events many would have their own brand on the umbrellas they used (it rains a lot here in the summer) so they were probably decent. I do agree though that a lot of that kind of promo merchandise can be chintzy, yet it is hugely popular. Corona beer had a straw cowboy hat promo some years back that was extremely popular, especially among the ladies, and was stolen out of the stores so often they had to be kept behind the counter and given out only when the purchase was made.

One promo that used to be very common but now seems to either be prohibited or made so difficult that it is no longer used was the "added value" type where typically a 50ml single of a spirit, either the same as what was being bought or another item from that supplier's portfolio, was hung on the neck of the main bottle. Reps hated those because they needed to hang the minis on the stock in every store, so it was a lot of work. I remember our store construction guy taking me to a store we were renovating and in the back warehouse area he removed a piece of paneling from the wall and the cavity was filled with empty mini bottles going back many years. The staff certainly enjoyed them!

jmonroe1 · April 2023

snakeweasel said:

@ab348 said:

In big organizations and especially government organizations there is little to no reason for any individual to do something outside the lines to help a client because they are not rewarded (and in fact may be penalized) for doing so.

Let me go down memory lane if I might. Maybe 10+ years before I got to work with the provincial liquor board here, I got into playing golf. One day I was in one of our liquor stores and they had a display for Dewar’s scotch with a golf theme that included a Dewar’s golf umbrella. I saw it and since Dewar’s was my scotch of choice at the time I immediately wanted one. Eventually a store clerk came by and I asked him how I could get one - I would have been happy to buy one. “You can’t “ he said dismissively before walking off, which made me very unhappy. Years later I discovered that such promo items were routinely taken home by store staff as the company reps used them to gain favor in stores in an under-the-table way, so maybe he wanted it for himself, who knows.

That attitude was typical once I joined the company and we worked hard to instill a better kind of customer focus in store staff because it was more than just making a sale, though that was important. But so is building an image of an organization that values customers for other reasons and doing the whole “surprise and delight” thing when dealing with them. It’s difficult especially in government organizations but we found ways to reward good deeds like that that worked well. Years later now, sadly most of those have been dismantled as government didn’t like that kind of thinking. The level of service and engagement in stores here is now far less than it was, unfortunately.

The moral of the story is that big bureaucratic organizations do not like doing things for one-off situations even if they screwed something up.

A lifetime ago I worked at a liquor store and we did routinely took those display items home after they were no longer needed. I will tell you this, those items were in no way high quality. They were made just for the display and to last the amount of time that it was supposed to be up. My guess is that umbrella would have started to fall apart under use rather quickly.

————————————————
That would have been his best excuse for being all wet.

jmonroe

driver100 · April 2023

jmonroe1 said:

explorerx4 said:
I find the top row in our 3 row dishwasher to be a big pain.
Unless you put something in there that is totally flat, it's full of water when you unload.
————————————————
Why not turn those items over?

jmonroe

It took an engineering degree to figure that out!

driver100 · April 2023

We have an older basic Bosch DW at home, and a newer Maytag in Florida.
The shelves in the Bosch make a lot more sense...it can hold a lot more stuff and the placement works better.
The Bosch is a lot quieter too.
One thing I do like about the Maytag, it can grind food if necessary. We try to not make it do that but it is nice to know that food won't be somewhere when the dishes are finished.
My B-I-L was telling me his grandchildren bought a new house and got all new appliances. He went there for dinner. After dinner they don't rinse or scrape plates, they just go in the DW with any food still on them.

kyfdx · April 2023

The Bosch won’t grind (which is why it’s quiet), but it has a filter to catch food, etc. We probably only clean ours out, about once every three months.

No “American” style dishwasher is quiet, due to the grinder.

roadburner · April 2023

We replaced our Bosch DW with a KitchenAid when it looked like the Bosch would cost a few hundred dollars to repair. So far, no complaints.

jmonroe1 · April 2023

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

explorerx4 said:
I find the top row in our 3 row dishwasher to be a big pain.
Unless you put something in there that is totally flat, it's full of water when you unload.
————————————————
Why not turn those items over?

jmonroe
It took an engineering degree to figure that out!

————————————————
No, that’s just common sense which I’m beginning to realize ain’t so common.

jmonroe

jmonroe1 · April 2023

driver100 said:
We have an older basic Bosch DW at home, and a newer Maytag in Florida.
The shelves in the Bosch make a lot more sense...it can hold a lot more stuff and the placement works better.
The Bosch is a lot quieter too.
One thing I do like about the Maytag, it can grind food if necessary. We try to not make it do that but it is nice to know that food won't be somewhere when the dishes are finished.
My B-I-L was telling me his grandchildren bought a new house and got all new appliances. He went there for dinner. After dinner they don't rinse or scrape plates, they just go in the DW with any food still on them.

————————————————
I told this story before. Maybe some of you might remember it:

We redid the kitchen in January 2010 so of course we got new appliances. We went to Sears because they always treated us right even when a couple appliances were out of warranty. Fast forward to April or May of 2011 and the Kenmore dishwasher stopped working. I called the Sears national service center and they reminded me that since I refused their extended warranty they couldn’t help me. I told them about just out of warranty appliances in the past where Sears corrected the problem without charging me. The response to that was pretty much “that was then and this is now. Go pound sand”. I called the local Sears store and the appliance department manager looks up my order and said something like, “Mr. @jmonroe, I see where you are a good Sears customer. That was a pretty good dishwasher you got and it shouldn’t have gone bad. I’m going to give you full credit, tax included towards the purchase of a new dishwasher. Just come in at your convenience and we’ll take care of this”.

We went to the store and just happened to get the same salesman who actually remembered us. We picked out a Samsung that he thought was very good and he especially kept commenting on how well it did with chopping up food. So much so he said, “you don’t even have to rinse the dishes, just throw them in the dishwasher and they’ll come out as clean as if you rinsed them. I GUARANTEE IT. If you don’t like how it works we’ll take it back and you can chose another one”. I said, “OK, I’ll hold you to that” and Mrs. j chimes in with, “he’s not kidding he’ll do it, believe me”.

After I installed the dishwasher and it’s now time to wash the first load, I reminded Mrs. j not to rinse the dishes. Just throw them in there and we’ll see how good this new gizmo is. Damn, just like the salesman said, they were as clean as if they were rinsed. I said to Mrs. j, “it looks like you got yourself a pretty good dishwasher”. She immediately said, “OK, I went along with your little experiment but don’t expect me to that again.” I think she likes to waste time and water.

jmonroe

stickguy · April 2023

rinsing may be overkill, but I would consider it a divorcable offense if my wife put dishes in the DW without scraping the extra food into the garbage.

probably why she did not fight me when I told her to just stay away from it and let me do it.

tjc78 · April 2023

@roadburner said:
We replaced our Bosch DW with a KitchenAid when it looked like the Bosch would cost a few hundred dollars to repair. So far, no complaints.

How recent is the Kitchen Aid? If fairly new, check the model number to make sure it’s not part of the service bulletin for the heating element. They used a gasket that disintegrated quickly and caused leaks.

jmonroe1 · April 2023

stickguy said:
rinsing may be overkill, but I would consider it a divorcable offense if my wife put dishes in the DW without scraping the extra food into the garbage.

probably why she did not fight me when I told her to just stay away from it and let me do it.

————————————————
Let me clarify this a little bit. She shook off any of the larger chunks into the sink where the disposal took care of that. Then it went into the dishwasher.

FWIW, we NEVER put any food items into the garbage can. All of that goes into the disposal. I can’t remember the last time our garbage can had an odor. It also lightens the load when I have to take the garbage to the curb. Like I’ve said before, “I didn’t buy a 1 HP disposal just to sit under the sink and look pretty”.

jmonroe

tjc78 · April 2023

I use the disposer pretty heavily… that’s what it is for, right?

stickguy · April 2023

tjc78 said:
I use the disposer pretty heavily… that’s what it is for, right?

not at our house. Nothing goes down the disposal if at all possible. I don't want all that mushy crap gunking up the inside of my drain pipes. Like a cheesesteak with double whiz lining your arteries.

If I had built a new house like we almost did, I was not spending the extra to install one. Both sides of our double sink have strainer covers on them (one side being the one with the disposal)

tjc78 · April 2023

That’s a fair point. Using it does open up the possibility for clogs… especially if your pipes aren’t sloped properly

kyfdx · April 2023

Pre- central A/C, garbage disposals were helpful in stopping fly and ant infestation. I think Jasper, IN had a city-wide program to promote installation.

https://indianapublicmedia.org/momentofindianahistory/talking-trash-jasper/

isellhondas · April 2023

Well, in September we decided that our 2400 sq ft house was getting to be unnecessary. We bought a nice townhouse about 15 minutes away. It's over 1600 Sq feet with 3 bedrooms and three baths. Double car garage. It's nice and working out well for us. It came with new looking Samsung refrigerator and washer dryer. The refrigerator ice maker no longer works and the washer does strange things. Calling Samsung gets you connected to someone in India or Pakastan who is near impossible to understand. I gave them the serial number of the fridge and was rudely told that it was out of warranty and a 560.00 job to repair. Our long time trusted Indy appliance guy refuses to work on Samsung or LG appliances. He knows he well enough after these years to be 100% candid and he cerainly was! " They are nothing but cheaply made junk! Samsungs makes parts almost impossible to obtain and if I fix it it will quickly break again" I have since learned that ice maker failure is a constant thing for Samsung! Nice, huh?

kyfdx · April 2023

I wouldn’t lump LG in with Samsung, in regards to washers and refrigerators. Samsung seems to have earned their poor reputation, when it comes to those two appliances.

sda · April 2023

I’ve had a good experience with Samsung TVs, and cell phones. However, a really poor experience with a washer and dryer. They both required multiple repairs, service and parts availability were a challenge. We had to replace both after less than 7 years. My sister had a horrible experience with a very expensive refrigerator which ended up being delegated for basement duty to keep beverages cool, not cold and a broken ice maker which had been repaired multiple times.

tjc78 · April 2023

That’s strange about the Samsung fridge. I called the number inside the fridge, gave them the serial and model number. They came out no questions asked and replaced the whole thing. It works “better” but still needs to be manually defrosted every so often

I’d still not buy another one, but was impressed they replaced it.

Michaell · April 2023

Not thrilled with Samsung W&D, either. Previous owners left theirs for us when we bought the house. The dryer failed pretty quickly, and a new one was needed.

The washer is still around (7 years old, next month), but the auto dispener for the fabric softener stopped working. Repair guy (who had come out for another issue) told me not to try to repair it and just use a Downy ball instead.

tjc78 · April 2023

We have a Samsung W/D too. I don’t mind them at all other than it being an HE non agitator model.

Next laundry pair will be a Speed Queen.. built like tanks and old fashioned tech. If you switch off the “green” functions they work like units from the 70s/80s and will completely fill with water.

We haven’t used fabric softener for years. I’ve read a lot of negative things about it and it’s not good for the workout type wear my wife lives in

Michaell · April 2023

tjc78 said:
We have a Samsung W/D too. I don’t mind them at all other than it being an HE non agitator model.

Next laundry pair will be a Speed Queen.. built like tanks and old fashioned tech. If you switch off the “green” functions they work like units from the 70s/80s and will completely fill with water.

We haven’t used fabric softener for years. I’ve read a lot of negative things about it and it’s not good for the workout type wear my wife lives in

Because we live in such a low humidity area (currently 20% humidity at the moment), not using fabric softener will lead to a lot of static in the clothes.

ab348 · April 2023

Samsung kitchen appliances are a no-go for me. Home Depot really pushes them so I figure they give them better margins than the other brands.

I’ve had a LG front-load washer & dryer pair for 12-13 years. The washer lost its LED display a few years back but otherwise still works fine. The dryer make a growl when you first start it but is otherwise OK. Neither owes me anything at this stage.

tjc78 · April 2023

Never thought of the humidity. No shortage of that here in Jersey!

Michaell · April 2023

tjc78 said:
Never thought of the humidity. No shortage of that here in Jersey!

Wife is tired of the dryness - plays havoc with her skin and hair.

stickguy · April 2023

I must have beaten the odds at the old house. we had Samsung WD that were probably at least 7 years old, and looked and worked like new when we sold the place. Never a problem or service needed.

and an LG Fridge that was in the same age range, also flawless. It did have a 10 year compressor warranty too.

new house has all GE appliances (2.5 YO now, new to the house) other than the washer (or maybe the dryer, one of the 2!) for some reason. I think that is an LG, but still looks new.

I just hope I don't have to spend money on any of them for a long time!

jmonroe1 · April 2023

stickguy said:

tjc78 said:
I use the disposer pretty heavily… that’s what it is for, right?

not at our house. Nothing goes down the disposal if at all possible. I don't want all that mushy crap gunking up the inside of my drain pipes. Like a cheesesteak with double whiz lining your arteries.

If I had built a new house like we almost did, I was not spending the extra to install one. Both sides of our double sink have strainer covers on them (one side being the one with the disposal)

————————————————
I’d have to call out a plumber a couple times to clean out the sewer line before I’d stop using the disposal. I’ve never come close to that problem and I’m in my 4th house.

The only disposal problem I’ve had was with the 1/3 HP unit I installed in our first house in the early 70’s. That unit worked fine except for a few times when Mrs. j stuffed too many potato peels into it at one time and it clogged the drain line where the sink drained into the wall. If the peels got past that pipe and got to the large drain pipe there would have been no problem even with that puny unit. That was an easy fix. I told her not to stuff too many peels into the drain at one time. When I replaced that unit with a Kenmore 1/2 HP job she couldn’t clog the drain no matter how many peels she stuffed in there. In fact that was my first test with that unit. Leave all the peels in the sink then as soon as you’re done peeling, stuff them as fast as you can into the disposal. No more problems with the more powerful unit. HP matters…it’s not just limited to cars.

jmonroe

pensfan83 · April 2023

tjc78 said:
We have a Samsung W/D too. I don’t mind them at all other than it being an HE non agitator model.

Next laundry pair will be a Speed Queen.. built like tanks and old fashioned tech. If you switch off the “green” functions they work like units from the 70s/80s and will completely fill with water.

We haven’t used fabric softener for years. I’ve read a lot of negative things about it and it’s not good for the workout type wear my wife lives in

I've made the same argument against fabric softener for those exact same reasons (clothes type and allergens/toxins) but at least narrowed it down to at least occasional use on towels/sheets and usage of the scent free stuff. Not as good as no use but I'll take it.

On what goes down the disposal, many years ago my FIL told us anything that didn't come out of the ground should not go in a garbage disposal.

sda · April 2023

Funny thing, well maybe not, the Samsung washer had a 10 year warranty on the part that failed yet it wasn’t available.

roadburner · April 2023

tjc78 said:

@roadburner said:

We replaced our Bosch DW with a KitchenAid when it looked like the Bosch would cost a few hundred dollars to repair. So far, no complaints.

How recent is the Kitchen Aid? If fairly new, check the model number to make sure it’s not part of the service bulletin for the heating element. They used a gasket that disintegrated quickly and caused leaks.

I believe it's about five years old.

driver100 · April 2023

I have heard the same, Samsung gives you a warranty but the parts aren't available. My neighbor in Florida had a 1 year old DW that smelled awful inside...maybe like something was burning when it was working, Samsung took months to get a part, never got it....she finally gave up and bought another DW.
Another neighbors fairly new Samsung fridge stopped working after 2 years, they have been waiting for a part for 3 months.....and don't have a decent fridge, the dealer gave them a small beer fridge to use until the part shows up.
I don't think these companies care. They got their money and try to hold on to keep their jobs for another quarter.

Maybe this should be called, D&C "Dishwashers and Conversation".

jmonroe1 · April 2023

driver100 said:
I have heard the same, Samsung gives you a warranty but the parts aren't available. My neighbor in Florida had a 1 year old DW that smelled awful inside...maybe like something was burning when it was working, Samsung took months to get a part, never got it....she finally gave up and bought another DW.
Another neighbors fairly new Samsung fridge stopped working after 2 years, they have been waiting for a part for 3 months.....and don't have a decent fridge, the dealer gave them a small beer fridge to use until the part shows up.
I don't think these companies care. They got their money and try to hold on to keep their jobs for another quarter.

Maybe this should be called, D&C "Dishwashers and Conversation".

————————————————
Now that we’re talking about disposals D&C would still work.

jmonroe

sda · April 2023

On the surface the Samsung appliances give a quality appearance. Good features, looks, nice tactile feel of the controls. Yet they frequently malfunction. Good luck getting it repaired in a timely manner or repaired at all.

driver100 · April 2023

sda said:
On the surface the Samsung appliances give a quality appearance. Good features, looks, nice tactile feel of the controls. Yet they frequently malfunction. Good luck getting it repaired in a timely manner or repaired at all.

They do look nice, have latest features, but are plagued with problems. And they don't have much in the way of serving what they sell. A few months ago I did actually see a little van that said Samsung on the side.....I was shocked. I trust them for TVs, but not appliances.

We are getting the tankless water heater installed today. We decided on an electric one rather than gas.
It came just in time, the 17 year old tank is fading quickly, just produces luke warm water.

abacomike · April 2023

@tjc78 said:
Never thought of the humidity. No shortage of that here in Jersey!

@tjc78 said:
Never thought of the humidity. No shortage of that here in Jersey!

Humidity is Florida’s middle name! i.e. Florida “Humidity” USA!!!🤪😜

driver100 · April 2023

It looks like the DW discussion ran out of juice....what's next bourbon?

jmonroe1 · April 2023

driver100 said:
It looks like the DW discussion ran out of juice....what's next bourbon?

————————————————
I’ll let you know when I’m close to my last bottle.

jmonroe

driver100 · April 2023

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:
It looks like the DW discussion ran out of juice....what's next bourbon?

————————————————
I’ll let you know when I’m close to my last bottle.

jmonroe

I don't know a thing about bourbon, but I like a Bloody Caesar with my dinner, so I had to buy 1.14 bottle at home, it was $45. In Florida it costs $22!
btw, a Bloody Caesar is Canadian, it is made using Clamato juice instead of tomato juice. It doesn't seem to exist in the U.S.

ab348 · April 2023

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:
It looks like the DW discussion ran out of juice....what's next bourbon?

————————————————
I’ll let you know when I’m close to my last bottle.

jmonroe
I don't know a thing about bourbon, but I like a Bloody Caesar with my dinner, so I had to buy 1.14 bottle at home, it was $45. In Florida it costs $22!
btw, a Bloody Caesar is Canadian, it is made using Clamato juice instead of tomato juice. It doesn't seem to exist in the U.S.

It's usually made with vodka too.

oldfarmer50 · April 2023

I took the Kia into the dealer this morning to deal with two recalls. Typical dealer upsell experience. The car has only 20k miles but they recommended a throttle body cleaning service every 15k miles (basically a can of Seafoam sprayed into it) and engine air filter once a year (every 5k miles for my annual use). Can’t imagine what that would have cost but I declined so who knows. They even asked about an oil change even though I did that 800 miles ago. I contrast that with my visit to the Ford dealer last week where they did a recall fix and other maintenance and never tried to upsell me on anything.

While I was there I browsed the lot to see how much the Kia Soul went up in price from 4 years ago. I was surprised to see they had only gone up a few thousand during that time. It’s a little hard to make direct comparison since they changed the names of trims and added/subtracted some and eliminated the base 1.6L NA engine as well as the 1.6L turbo.

No dealer “market adjustments” seen but they did slap some dealer installed rip-off options. The most outrageous was putting wheel locks on the base trim with steel wheels. Is there a big black market demand for stolen steelies?

ab348 · April 2023

Sounds like a typical dealer even in the before times.

I was surprised to see network commercials on TV over the weekend with factory cash-back incentives being offered on certain models and low-interest financing on others. Things are getting back to normal.

jmonroe1 · April 2023

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:
It looks like the DW discussion ran out of juice....what's next bourbon?

————————————————
I’ll let you know when I’m close to my last bottle.

jmonroe
I don't know a thing about bourbon, but I like a Bloody Caesar with my dinner, so I had to buy 1.14 bottle at home, it was $45. In Florida it costs $22!
btw, a Bloody Caesar is Canadian, it is made using Clamato juice instead of tomato juice. It doesn't seem to exist in the U.S.

————————————————
No kidding!

jmonroe

stickguy · April 2023

I got an email today from the Honda dealer nearby advertising lease specials. Maybe the times are changing!

stickguy · April 2023

Farmer, what Ford dealer do you use up here? sounds like you are happy with them.

oldfarmer50 · April 2023

stickguy said:
Farmer, what Ford dealer do you use up here? sounds like you are happy with them.

Morris Ford in Burnt Hills. I got a good deal on the Mustang and they fixed the notorious aluminum hood paint flaw twice for no charge. Pretty low pressure store.

There is a Ford dealer 3 miles from my house that I pass on the way.

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