Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100 · June 2023

Canada Geese aren't even useful as food: (more than you want to know but, I was an ex-teacher so like to educate)

The reason for this is that Canada goose meat is extremely lean, and the globs of fat that are stored around the breast meat are completely rank.

In other words, it’s easy to cook them into a dry brick.

What Canada Geese Taste Like
The breasts of a Canada goose are generally considered to be the best part. You can also eat the legs, but they need a bit more work to prepare.

If I had to compare it to anything else, I’d say it has similarities to bison, just tougher and more gamey unless you take steps to counteract it.

Some people I’ve fed it to mistake it for beef.

Wild goose meat is definitely distinct, and Canada geese are on the far end of the tough and gamey spectrum.

They can be old...they live from 10 to 25 years! Some of them migrate 2,000 miles each year. They’re designed for long distance, high speed migration.

The reason that they can pull this off without dying from exhaustion is that they can soak a ton of blood into their breast muscles to keep them oxygenated. They’re also very lean.

This translates into tough and gamey when they’re on the menu. You might be sinking your teeth into a bird that’s traveled 20,000 or more miles over the course of its life.

I won't be opening a Canada Goose -Fil-A.

fintail · June 2023

driver100 said:

fintail said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

fintail said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

driver100 said:
@fintail
You are a true traditionalist. That brown one needs something to liven it up!
For some things, less is more. I still prefer my MB sedans with formal grilles and hood ornaments too, so there's that.

Well, the blue does a lot more for it than that dead brown color. I still think they need a bit of pizzaz to set them off, and not look so formal.

The brown is better than black anyway. A black G is like a Russian mafia cliche almost to the point of humor.

It's a tough line on those - they look too blingy with shiny stuff, and ridiculous with too much black trim faux sport stuff.

I saw a G in that blue color @fintail prefers, on my way back from the vet this afternoon. Had black wheels, however.
Mercedes doesn't use nice blues too often. Funny, KIA and Hyundai get some of the more unique colors, and probably don't charge a lot extra for certain paints.

Is that a real car and color though? Looks concept-y.

The MB color is "China Blue" (a color name from the 70s-80s), a Designo option on certain (but maybe not all) models.

Here it is on an E63 wagon:

That is a great looking blue, but why not offer it on all models all the time?
I just checked a 2023 C Class....Build your own. The only color offered besides about 5 grays and silvers and black was starling blue metalic which isn't so hot! They don't even offer white apparently.....and most you have to pay extra for....like do they sell you a car without paint if you don't pay for a paint job?

I just checked the site. There is a white on the C, but the paint sample doesn't look white (metallic/pearl white). Looks like the only standard color for a C is a non-metallic black. Everything else is an upcharge. MB has done this for a long time. E-class has a non-metallic black and white as no-cost colors, others as an upcharge (same as when leased my prior cars). There are more no-cost colors as one increases MSRP/position in the range.

That Kia appears to be an Optima convertible, pretty sure you can't go down to the dealer and buy one of those

driver100 · June 2023

fintail said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

fintail said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

driver100 said:
@fintail
You are a true traditionalist. That brown one needs something to liven it up!
For some things, less is more. I still prefer my MB sedans with formal grilles and hood ornaments too, so there's that.

Well, the blue does a lot more for it than that dead brown color. I still think they need a bit of pizzaz to set them off, and not look so formal.

The brown is better than black anyway. A black G is like a Russian mafia cliche almost to the point of humor.

It's a tough line on those - they look too blingy with shiny stuff, and ridiculous with too much black trim faux sport stuff.

I saw a G in that blue color @fintail prefers, on my way back from the vet this afternoon. Had black wheels, however.
Mercedes doesn't use nice blues too often. Funny, KIA and Hyundai get some of the more unique colors, and probably don't charge a lot extra for certain paints.

Is that a real car and color though? Looks concept-y.

The MB color is "China Blue" (a color name from the 70s-80s), a Designo option on certain (but maybe not all) models.

Here it is on an E63 wagon:

That is a great looking blue, but why not offer it on all models all the time?
I just checked a 2023 C Class....Build your own. The only color offered besides about 5 grays and silvers and black was starling blue metalic which isn't so hot! They don't even offer white apparently.....and most you have to pay extra for....like do they sell you a car without paint if you don't pay for a paint job?

I just checked the site. There is a white on the C, but the paint sample doesn't look white (metallic/pearl white). Looks like the only standard color for a C is a non-metallic black. Everything else is an upcharge. MB has done this for a long time. E-class has a non-metallic black and white as no-cost colors, others as an upcharge (same as when leased my prior cars). There are more no-cost colors as one increases MSRP/position in the range.

That Kia appears to be an Optima convertible, pretty sure you can't go down to the dealer and buy one of those

So, unless you get regular black you are going to pay for a color if you want a C-Class, almost sounds like Henry Ford, you can have any color as long as it is black. I think they should offer more non-metallic colors no charge...you're buying a car and it should come with paint. Metallic colors are probably not a lot extra to make, at one time they didn't charge extra for colors like silver.

The Optima convertible might be a show car, but that same color is offered on other lower priced cars. This is a 2023 Elantra in Performance Blue;

....and they offer flat gray, red etc. The C Class is really boring, that deep boring blue, black, metallic white, and about 4 shades of gray.

Michaell · June 2023

Looks like GM, as well as Ford, is entering into an agreement with Tesla to have their EV's use the Tesla charging network.

I'd say this is the beginning of total consolidation to a single charging standard.

Hope no-one has invested in Electrify America, etc.

PS None of the above applies to @driver100, who staunchly refuses to own an EV in his lifetime.

jmonroe1 · June 2023

Michaell said:
Looks like GM, as well as Ford, is entering into an agreement with Tesla to have their EV's use the Tesla charging network.

I'd say this is the beginning of total consolidation to a single charging standard.

Hope no-one has invested in Electrify America, etc.

PS None of the above applies to @driver100, who staunchly refuses to own an EV in his lifetime.

————————————————
But if he thought enough folks would buy an EV and they didn’t like Musk, he could have invested in Electrify America.

FWIW, I don’t see myself buying an EV, either, anytime soon.

jmonroe

ronsteve · June 2023

I hope I have enough lifetime remaining and that our society has enough sense to build enough charging infrastructure for me to consider owning an EV, but at this point I would go no farther than hybrid.

fintail · June 2023

driver100 said:

fintail said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

fintail said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

driver100 said:
@fintail
You are a true traditionalist. That brown one needs something to liven it up!
For some things, less is more. I still prefer my MB sedans with formal grilles and hood ornaments too, so there's that.

Well, the blue does a lot more for it than that dead brown color. I still think they need a bit of pizzaz to set them off, and not look so formal.

The brown is better than black anyway. A black G is like a Russian mafia cliche almost to the point of humor.

It's a tough line on those - they look too blingy with shiny stuff, and ridiculous with too much black trim faux sport stuff.

I saw a G in that blue color @fintail prefers, on my way back from the vet this afternoon. Had black wheels, however.
Mercedes doesn't use nice blues too often. Funny, KIA and Hyundai get some of the more unique colors, and probably don't charge a lot extra for certain paints.

Is that a real car and color though? Looks concept-y.

The MB color is "China Blue" (a color name from the 70s-80s), a Designo option on certain (but maybe not all) models.

Here it is on an E63 wagon:

That is a great looking blue, but why not offer it on all models all the time?
I just checked a 2023 C Class....Build your own. The only color offered besides about 5 grays and silvers and black was starling blue metalic which isn't so hot! They don't even offer white apparently.....and most you have to pay extra for....like do they sell you a car without paint if you don't pay for a paint job?

I just checked the site. There is a white on the C, but the paint sample doesn't look white (metallic/pearl white). Looks like the only standard color for a C is a non-metallic black. Everything else is an upcharge. MB has done this for a long time. E-class has a non-metallic black and white as no-cost colors, others as an upcharge (same as when leased my prior cars). There are more no-cost colors as one increases MSRP/position in the range.

That Kia appears to be an Optima convertible, pretty sure you can't go down to the dealer and buy one of those
So, unless you get regular black you are going to pay for a color if you want a C-Class, almost sounds like Henry Ford, you can have any color as long as it is black. I think they should offer more non-metallic colors no charge...you're buying a car and it should come with paint. Metallic colors are probably not a lot extra to make, at one time they didn't charge extra for colors like silver.

The Optima convertible might be a show car, but that same color is offered on other lower priced cars. This is a 2023 Elantra in Performance Blue;

....and they offer flat gray, red etc. The C Class is really boring, that deep boring blue, black, metallic white, and about 4 shades of gray.

It's the German car way. Everything has always been an option - maybe kind of a mandatory option as you'd have to special order a car without some things, but technically options. Like the "premium" package on so many cars, which is an option on the sticker but on this continent no cars exist without it. It's even bigger in Europe, where base spec is lower. 60 years ago people joked that the fluids in the car were an extra cost option.

I think everyone charges for any kind of fancy paint now, especially pearl white. Profit centers, the margins have to be yuuuge. We live in a greyscale era - look at most modern cars on the road, and most new build or or flip houses. Eventually it might be a dated thing like 70s/80s earthtones, but at the same time, I think people are just more conformist now in some ways.

driver100 · June 2023

Michaell said:
Looks like GM, as well as Ford, is entering into an agreement with Tesla to have their EV's use the Tesla charging network.

I'd say this is the beginning of total consolidation to a single charging standard.

Hope no-one has invested in Electrify America, etc.

PS None of the above applies to @driver100, who staunchly refuses to own an EV in his lifetime.

I don't care whether they all use Tesla equipment or some other standard.
I still don't know how people who park on the street, in a driveway, in a building parking lot, who live in older buildings and houses, etc........will be able to hook their car up to get charged.

You don't hear too much about colder climates.....where gassers have hot engines to produce heat....EVs need to use battery power....which guess what....uses up a lot of battery power. And that is just one reason I am not ready to jump, there are a few more too.

One fellow I know who owns a newer Corvette mentioned a good point too; As it is now a fair amount of money for gas goes for taxes and for roads - at least in Canada it does - what happens when they realize that EV owners should be paying road tax when they charge EVs....and that may raise the cost of electricity too.

driver100 · June 2023

ronsteve said:
I hope I have enough lifetime remaining and that our society has enough sense to build enough charging infrastructure for me to consider owning an EV, but at this point I would go no farther than hybrid.

That's what I thought too, but when I read my current Canadian Auto Club newsletter they said hybrid was the worst choice. It's way more complicated...you have two systems to maintain, and more can go wrong.

You aren't getting the real benefits of a full EV. You still need gasoline......have to fill up both. You don't get the EV driving experience...which is something EV drivers like.

There were other reasons too.

stickguy · June 2023

they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.

oldfarmer50 · June 2023

Oh BTW, I took a closer look at that burned out car from the other day. Jeep Compass, Trailhawk edition.

explorerx4 · June 2023

As you get older, usually you try to simplify your life.
I'm doing the opposite, not all of it intentional and mostly good.
After living in the same house for 25 years, we moved almost 600 miles to be close to our grandkids.
It's taken a while to get used to the new house. Our previous house was a 5, 4 and a door colonial.
New house is a modified ranch with some 2nd floor living area.
It took me about a month to not start heading upstairs to go to bed at night.
For the first time I have adjacent next door neighbors and they put up fences.
I'm trying to figure out how to trim the lawn without impacting their fences.
We also have a sprinkler system and I'm working on how to take care of the lawn around that, it runs twice a day.
Our oldest grandson weighed just over 4 lbs when he was born, almost lost them both(mom and baby) during childbirth, He's still a peanut and smart as a tack.
His parent's had his younger brothers 1st birthday party at a local brewery(it was great).
I figured older would be a bit bored, so I brought a 100 piece jigsaw puzzle.
He put at least 80 of the pieces together and helped him with the rest.
Most of the time we just knock heads. HA HA. It's a work in progress.
Grandma is still his favorite though.

The younger one, 15 months, has something called OMAS.
Not much is known about it.
They noticed it because he can't move his eyes side to side.
It seems like part of his brain is not growing.
His parents are understandably kind of freaked out about it and are worried about what he won't be able to do.
Her and I get along great. I keep telling them did you know he can do this?
Those kids are a big part of me being ok not simplifying things at this point.
Had another IBIG immune system booster infusion today and hoping it sticks.
Sorry for the JM length post.

imidazol97 · June 2023

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.

Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.

imidazol97 · June 2023

I saw an article about a Toyota study about hybrid vehicles being less damaging to the environment
then EV autos.

https://americanthinker.com/blog/2023/06/toyota_study_shows_electric_vehicles_may_be_unnecessary_to_lower_co2_emissions.html

qbrozen · June 2023

imidazol97 said:
I saw an article about a Toyota study about hybrid vehicles being less damaging to the environment
then EV autos.

https://americanthinker.com/blog/2023/06/toyota_study_shows_electric_vehicles_may_be_unnecessary_to_lower_co2_emissions.html

Maybe I'm reading too fast, but I'm not seeing that claim. I went through quickly and see claims about hybrids being used in EV mode being the best. Sooo... kind of weird to say EV mode good, so hybrids good. Hmmmm....

snakeweasel · June 2023

imidazol97 said:
I saw an article about a Toyota study about hybrid vehicles being less damaging to the environment
then EV autos.

https://americanthinker.com/blog/2023/06/toyota_study_shows_electric_vehicles_may_be_unnecessary_to_lower_co2_emissions.html

Lets see, a study by a car company that is heavy on hybrids and light on full electric cars publishing a study saying that hybrids are better than EV's isn't suspicious at all.

oldfarmer50 · June 2023

explorerx4 said:
As you get older, usually you try to simplify your life.
I'm doing the opposite, not all of it intentional and mostly good.
After living in the same house for 25 years, we moved almost 600 miles to be close to our grandkids.
It's taken a while to get used to the new house. Our previous house was a 5, 4 and a door colonial.
New house is a modified ranch with some 2nd floor living area.
It took me about a month to not start heading upstairs to go to bed at night.
For the first time I have adjacent next door neighbors and they put up fences.
I'm trying to figure out how to trim the lawn without impacting their fences.
We also have a sprinkler system and I'm working on how to take care of the lawn around that, it runs twice a day.
Our oldest grandson weighed just over 4 lbs when he was born, almost lost them both(mom and baby) during childbirth, He's still a peanut and smart as a tack.
His parent's had his younger brothers 1st birthday party at a local brewery(it was great).
I figured older would be a bit bored, so I brought a 100 piece jigsaw puzzle.
He put at least 80 of the pieces together and helped him with the rest.
Most of the time we just knock heads. HA HA. It's a work in progress.
Grandma is still his favorite though.
The younger one, 15 months, has something called OMAS.
Not much is known about it.
They noticed it because he can't move his eyes side to side.
It seems like part of his brain is not growing.
His parents are understandably kind of freaked out about it and are worried about what he won't be able to do.
Her and I get along great. I keep telling them did you know he can do this?
Those kids are a big part of me being ok not simplifying things at this point.
Had another IBIG immune system booster infusion today and hoping it sticks.
Sorry for the JM length post.

Sorry to hear about your grandkid. I assume they ruled out a neuroblastoma as the cause.

jmonroe1 · June 2023

@explorerx4 said:
As you get older, usually you try to simplify your life.
I'm doing the opposite, not all of it intentional and mostly good.
After living in the same house for 25 years, we moved almost 600 miles to be close to our grandkids.
It's taken a while to get used to the new house. Our previous house was a 5, 4 and a door colonial.
New house is a modified ranch with some 2nd floor living area.
It took me about a month to not start heading upstairs to go to bed at night.
For the first time I have adjacent next door neighbors and they put up fences.
I'm trying to figure out how to trim the lawn without impacting their fences.
We also have a sprinkler system and I'm working on how to take care of the lawn around that, it runs twice a day.
Our oldest grandson weighed just over 4 lbs when he was born, almost lost them both(mom and baby) during childbirth, He's still a peanut and smart as a tack.
His parent's had his younger brothers 1st birthday party at a local brewery(it was great).
I figured older would be a bit bored, so I brought a 100 piece jigsaw puzzle.
He put at least 80 of the pieces together and helped him with the rest.
Most of the time we just knock heads. HA HA. It's a work in progress.
Grandma is still his favorite though.
The younger one, 15 months, has something called OMAS.
Not much is known about it.
They noticed it because he can't move his eyes side to side.
It seems like part of his brain is not growing.
His parents are understandably kind of freaked out about it and are worried about what he won't be able to do.
Her and I get along great. I keep telling them did you know he can do this?
Those kids are a big part of me being ok not simplifying things at this point.
Had another IBIG immune system booster infusion today and hoping it sticks.
Sorry for the JM length post.

————————————————
Until you have a couple grandkids most folks can’t understand the joy that is. Fortunately we didn’t have to move to be close to ours. Both of our sons live within 10 miles of us.

The grandkids are too old to sleep over here anymore (the youngest one, the only girl is fourteen) but all 5 of them talk about the times they did and the good times they had. Sometimes all 5 at one time. I’m not going to say that was all fun and games but it was very interesting to say the least. Imagine all the fun grandma had making breakfast for that crew. A few times she said, “what do you guys think this is, a restaurant or something!!” One time our wise guy grandson #2 said, “don’t complain so much. Do you want us to go to a nicer bed and breakfast next time”? He came that close to doing laps around the dining room table. I wish you good luck and health with yours.

BTW, I guess you haven’t noticed that my posts are a much more reasonable length lately. However, if you miss the old @jmonroe, I’m sure I can find him.

jmonroe

driver100 · June 2023

@explorerx4 That's a lot of things on your plate explorer....but it sounds like you have some great times too. I hope things fall into place for you.

driver100 · June 2023

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.

....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.

kyfdx · June 2023

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.

Then, you could say the same thing about diesel trucks or Escalades subsidizing Honda Civics. Whoever uses more fuel pays more tax.

Michaell · June 2023

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.

Are you suggesting that the fees for EV owners should be higher, to be more equivalent to what ICE owners pay in fuel taxes?

driver100 · June 2023

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.
Are you suggesting that the fees for EV owners should be higher, to be more equivalent to what ICE owners pay in fuel taxes?

Yes, exactly! EV owners should pay tax at the same rate as ICE drivers. Not a one time very low fee. They use the same roads as ICE cars, they pay for the same law enforcement, they need bridges and painted lines on the roads, highway signs, they pay for fire departments etc.
Maybe mileage a year should be calculated and taxes of 18 cents for every 30 miles should be collected.

One day when there are only EVs that tax money has to be made up somehow......or they'll just tax electricity at a much higher rate.

driver100 · June 2023

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.
Then, you could say the same thing about diesel trucks or Escalades subsidizing Honda Civics. Whoever uses more fuel pays more tax.

Not exactly. Everyone should contribute their fair share of taxes, especially taxes that pay for roads and highways. If you choose to drive a bigger car or a car that uses more fuel, you should pay extra for that privilege, like a luxury tax only an extra charge because you want to drive a larger or faster car....that happens to use more fuel.

But EV drivers want to drive on highways ICE drivers are paying a much larger portion of the bill for.

kyfdx · June 2023

driver100 said:

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.
Then, you could say the same thing about diesel trucks or Escalades subsidizing Honda Civics. Whoever uses more fuel pays more tax.
Not exactly. Everyone should contribute their fair share of taxes, especially taxes that pay for roads and highways. If you choose to drive a bigger car or a car that uses more fuel, you should pay extra for that privilege, like a luxury tax only an extra charge because you want to drive a larger or faster car....that happens to use more fuel.

But EV drivers want to drive on highways ICE drivers are paying a much larger portion of the bill for.

By that "logic", ICE drivers should pay a bigger share, as they are burning fossil fuels that could harm the environment. They could choose to drive EVs, as well. Which makes as much sense as putting a luxury tax on Escalades.

Michaell · June 2023

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.
Are you suggesting that the fees for EV owners should be higher, to be more equivalent to what ICE owners pay in fuel taxes?
Yes, exactly! EV owners should pay tax at the same rate as ICE drivers. Not a one time very low fee. They use the same roads as ICE cars, they pay for the same law enforcement, they need bridges and painted lines on the roads, highway signs, they pay for fire departments etc.
Maybe mileage a year should be calculated and taxes of 18 cents for every 30 miles should be collected.

One day when there are only EVs that tax money has to be made up somehow......or they'll just tax electricity at a much higher rate.

Oh dear. I believe Oregon has implemented a policy similar to what you describe. The problem is that many folks are not thrilled to have the government intrude upon their privacy by tracking how many miles they drive per year.

Would this be on the honor system? Or an annual inspection? Or some device installed into the car that tracks the odometer reading.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree with you that EV drivers need to pay for their fair share of the infrastructure they use, but implementation will be challenging.

stickguy · June 2023

Problem I have with state mileage is what if you mostly drive out of state?

jmonroe1 · June 2023

@driver100 said:
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.

————————————————
And when you add in the Ohio state tax on gasoline (the web says that it is 38.5 cents) to the Federal Tax on gasoline, $200 is a screaming bargain to register an EV in Ohio compared to the average gasser owners.

FWIW, PA state tax on gas is 61.1 cents per gallon. I don’t know what/if PA charges to register an EV.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 · June 2023

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.
Are you suggesting that the fees for EV owners should be higher, to be more equivalent to what ICE owners pay in fuel taxes?

Some politicians are. That’s the logic behind the mileage tax. Of course that requires a GPS monitoring device in your car, “just to accurately track your mileage” of course.

oldfarmer50 · June 2023

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.
Then, you could say the same thing about diesel trucks or Escalades subsidizing Honda Civics. Whoever uses more fuel pays more tax.
Not exactly. Everyone should contribute their fair share of taxes, especially taxes that pay for roads and highways. If you choose to drive a bigger car or a car that uses more fuel, you should pay extra for that privilege, like a luxury tax only an extra charge because you want to drive a larger or faster car....that happens to use more fuel.

But EV drivers want to drive on highways ICE drivers are paying a much larger portion of the bill for.
By that "logic", ICE drivers should pay a bigger share, as they are burning fossil fuels that could harm the environment. They could choose to drive EVs, as well. Which makes as much sense as putting a luxury tax on Escalades.

Yeah but EV owners are still running on electricity produced mainly by fossil fuels so from an environmental standpoint it’s a wash.

oldfarmer50 · June 2023

stickguy said:
Problem I have with state mileage is what if you mostly drive out of state?

Any state with an annual inspection requirement could easily track mileage once a year for tax purposes. I ‘m sure that would spark a brisk trade in odometer tampering devices. I understand there are already things you can buy which either slow down or stop the electronic odometers from registering correct mileage.

https://mileageblocker.com/

kyfdx · June 2023

oldfarmer50 said:

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.
Then, you could say the same thing about diesel trucks or Escalades subsidizing Honda Civics. Whoever uses more fuel pays more tax.
Not exactly. Everyone should contribute their fair share of taxes, especially taxes that pay for roads and highways. If you choose to drive a bigger car or a car that uses more fuel, you should pay extra for that privilege, like a luxury tax only an extra charge because you want to drive a larger or faster car....that happens to use more fuel.

But EV drivers want to drive on highways ICE drivers are paying a much larger portion of the bill for.
By that "logic", ICE drivers should pay a bigger share, as they are burning fossil fuels that could harm the environment. They could choose to drive EVs, as well. Which makes as much sense as putting a luxury tax on Escalades.
Yeah but EV owners are still running on electricity produced mainly by fossil fuels so from an environmental standpoint it’s a wash.

The point is: Neither of those choices promotes actual "fairness". It's all about tax revenue.

ab348 · June 2023

oldfarmer50 said:

Some politicians are. That’s the logic behind the mileage tax. Of course that requires a GPS monitoring device in your car, “just to accurately track your mileage” of course.

Way too complicated and unnecessary. Just flat-rate them, like vehicle registration fees.

jmonroe1 · June 2023

@oldfarmer50 said:
Any state with an annual inspection requirement could easily track mileage once a year for tax purposes. I ‘m sure that would spark a brisk trade in odometer tampering devices. I understand there are already things you can buy which either slow down or stop the electronic odometers from registering correct mileage.

https://mileageblocker.com/

————————————————
That’s a very cute gizmo just to avoid racking up mileage when performing tests for mods you might be doing on your car at a track.

Maybe they have an equivalent gizmo for doing taxes so you can see the savings if you cheat. Not that anyone would actually cheat but just to know what your savings would be if you do.

jmonroe

stickguy · June 2023

there is the same problem with any directed tax like that. Never equitable.

the state should just have a general source of funds and use it for whatever they are obligated to, including taking care of roads.

houdini2 · June 2023

Smile of the day: Parking for Synagogue business only. Violators will be circumcised.

jmonroe1 · June 2023

@ab348 said:
Way too complicated and unnecessary. Just flat-rate them, like vehicle registration fees.

————————————————
And make sure the registration fee is high enough so as not to have ICE owners subsidize EV’s the way it is done now. A true EV owner won’t mind since their goal is to save the environment.

jmonroe

driver100 · June 2023

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.
Then, you could say the same thing about diesel trucks or Escalades subsidizing Honda Civics. Whoever uses more fuel pays more tax.
Not exactly. Everyone should contribute their fair share of taxes, especially taxes that pay for roads and highways. If you choose to drive a bigger car or a car that uses more fuel, you should pay extra for that privilege, like a luxury tax only an extra charge because you want to drive a larger or faster car....that happens to use more fuel.

But EV drivers want to drive on highways ICE drivers are paying a much larger portion of the bill for.
By that "logic", ICE drivers should pay a bigger share, as they are burning fossil fuels that could harm the environment. They could choose to drive EVs, as well. Which makes as much sense as putting a luxury tax on Escalades.
Yeah but EV owners are still running on electricity produced mainly by fossil fuels so from an environmental standpoint it’s a wash.
The point is: Neither of those choices promotes actual "fairness". It's all about tax revenue.

Taxes aren't fair....in fact when they first came to be they were supposed to be temporary....ha ha.
But, it is really unfair to pay a yearly fee of $200, when ICE drivers are paying....according to JMonroe 61 cents a gallon in taxes. The EV owners are getting a free ride, so to speak.

And to say EVs should get a break because they pollute less is debatable....no one mentions the kids who dig out lithium, or disposing of old batteries, or that a lot of electric power is made with fossil fuels.

This won't intrude on someone's privacy. A meter that attaches to the charging port in the car...the amount of electricity that goes into the car is calculated, and an additional charge of 61 cents for every 30 miles traveled is charged.

Michaell · June 2023

driver100 said:

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.
Then, you could say the same thing about diesel trucks or Escalades subsidizing Honda Civics. Whoever uses more fuel pays more tax.
Not exactly. Everyone should contribute their fair share of taxes, especially taxes that pay for roads and highways. If you choose to drive a bigger car or a car that uses more fuel, you should pay extra for that privilege, like a luxury tax only an extra charge because you want to drive a larger or faster car....that happens to use more fuel.

But EV drivers want to drive on highways ICE drivers are paying a much larger portion of the bill for.
By that "logic", ICE drivers should pay a bigger share, as they are burning fossil fuels that could harm the environment. They could choose to drive EVs, as well. Which makes as much sense as putting a luxury tax on Escalades.
Yeah but EV owners are still running on electricity produced mainly by fossil fuels so from an environmental standpoint it’s a wash.
The point is: Neither of those choices promotes actual "fairness". It's all about tax revenue.
Taxes aren't fair....in fact when they first came to be they were supposed to be temporary....ha ha.
But, it is really unfair to pay a yearly fee of $200, when ICE drivers are paying....according to JMonroe 61 cents a gallon in taxes. The EV owners are getting a free ride, so to speak.

And to say EVs should get a break because they pollute less is debatable....no one mentions the kids who dig out lithium, or disposing of old batteries, or that a lot of electric power is made with fossil fuels.

This won't intrude on someone's privacy. A meter that attaches to the charging port in the car...the amount of electricity that goes into the car is calculated, and an additional charge of 61 cents for every 30 miles traveled is charged.

How does one equate charging amount to miles driven? As has been pointed out repeatedly, it takes more energy to travel 30 miles in the winter than it does in the summer - which, by the way, is also true with ICE vehicles.

jmonroe1 · June 2023

@houdini2 said:
Smile of the day: Parking for Synagogue business only. Violators will be circumcised.

————————————————
That would work alright. There ain’t a guy alive that wants that done again. Especially when he knows what’s going to happen.

jmonroe

jmonroe1 · June 2023

@driver100 said:
Taxes aren't fair....in fact when they first came to be they were supposed to be temporary....ha ha.
But, it is really unfair to pay a yearly fee of $200, when ICE drivers are paying....according to JMonroe 61 cents a gallon in taxes. The EV owners are getting a free ride, so to speak.

And to say EVs should get a break because they pollute less is debatable....no one mentions the kids who dig out lithium, or disposing of old batteries, or that a lot of electric power is made with fossil fuels.

This won't intrude on someone's privacy. A meter that attaches to the charging port in the car...the amount of electricity that goes into the car is calculated, and an additional charge of 61 cents for every 30 miles traveled is charged.

————————————————
@driver100 for president.

Just for your info, that 61 cents a gallon tax in PA is on top of the fed tax of almost 20 cents a gallon. You do the math, that would make me sick if I did it.

jmonroe

driver100 · June 2023

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.
Then, you could say the same thing about diesel trucks or Escalades subsidizing Honda Civics. Whoever uses more fuel pays more tax.
Not exactly. Everyone should contribute their fair share of taxes, especially taxes that pay for roads and highways. If you choose to drive a bigger car or a car that uses more fuel, you should pay extra for that privilege, like a luxury tax only an extra charge because you want to drive a larger or faster car....that happens to use more fuel.

But EV drivers want to drive on highways ICE drivers are paying a much larger portion of the bill for.
By that "logic", ICE drivers should pay a bigger share, as they are burning fossil fuels that could harm the environment. They could choose to drive EVs, as well. Which makes as much sense as putting a luxury tax on Escalades.
Yeah but EV owners are still running on electricity produced mainly by fossil fuels so from an environmental standpoint it’s a wash.
The point is: Neither of those choices promotes actual "fairness". It's all about tax revenue.
Taxes aren't fair....in fact when they first came to be they were supposed to be temporary....ha ha.
But, it is really unfair to pay a yearly fee of $200, when ICE drivers are paying....according to JMonroe 61 cents a gallon in taxes. The EV owners are getting a free ride, so to speak.

And to say EVs should get a break because they pollute less is debatable....no one mentions the kids who dig out lithium, or disposing of old batteries, or that a lot of electric power is made with fossil fuels.

This won't intrude on someone's privacy. A meter that attaches to the charging port in the car...the amount of electricity that goes into the car is calculated, and an additional charge of 61 cents for every 30 miles traveled is charged.
How does one equate charging amount to miles driven? As has been pointed out repeatedly, it takes more energy to travel 30 miles in the winter than it does in the summer - which, by the way, is also true with ICE vehicles.

As I learned in business, there are always problems, the guy who finds the solution wins.

You can charge the drivers of ICE vehicles by charging by the gallon, which is not great, but it is about as fair as possible. If you use the roads and services supplied by the government more...then you pay more. If your car uses more fuel you pay more...but that is the car you chose to buy.

Why should EV users use the roads, but not pay an equivalent amount for road usage based on the fuel used. The fairest way would be to tax the electricity being used by the car. With all the electronics and equipment used today, it just means finding a way to calculate how much electricity is being put into the car. Some EVs will go further than others, just like ICE vehicles do.
So you would charge by the kilowatt-hours when the EV is charged up. A sealed monitor is attached to every car......and the onboard computer sends that information to the tax department....eazy peazy.

driver100 · June 2023

jmonroe1 said:

@driver100 said:

Taxes aren't fair....in fact when they first came to be they were supposed to be temporary....ha ha.

But, it is really unfair to pay a yearly fee of $200, when ICE drivers are paying....according to JMonroe 61 cents a gallon in taxes. The EV owners are getting a free ride, so to speak.

And to say EVs should get a break because they pollute less is debatable....no one mentions the kids who dig out lithium, or disposing of old batteries, or that a lot of electric power is made with fossil fuels.

This won't intrude on someone's privacy. A meter that attaches to the charging port in the car...the amount of electricity that goes into the car is calculated, and an additional charge of 61 cents for every 30 miles traveled is charged.

————————————————
@driver100 for president.

Just for your info, that 61 cents a gallon tax in PA is on top of the fed tax of almost 20 cents a gallon. You do the math, that would make me sick if I did it.

jmonroe

Thanks for backing me for pres but I am happily retired and wouldn't want that job for any amount of money.

I think that at 12000 miles a year, and using 400 gallons of gasoline a year, and taxes of 80 cents a gallon that works out to $320 going for taxes. Us ICE drivers are being ripped off if EV guys only pay $100 a year flat rate.

oldfarmer50 · June 2023

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.
Then, you could say the same thing about diesel trucks or Escalades subsidizing Honda Civics. Whoever uses more fuel pays more tax.
Not exactly. Everyone should contribute their fair share of taxes, especially taxes that pay for roads and highways. If you choose to drive a bigger car or a car that uses more fuel, you should pay extra for that privilege, like a luxury tax only an extra charge because you want to drive a larger or faster car....that happens to use more fuel.

But EV drivers want to drive on highways ICE drivers are paying a much larger portion of the bill for.
By that "logic", ICE drivers should pay a bigger share, as they are burning fossil fuels that could harm the environment. They could choose to drive EVs, as well. Which makes as much sense as putting a luxury tax on Escalades.
Yeah but EV owners are still running on electricity produced mainly by fossil fuels so from an environmental standpoint it’s a wash.
The point is: Neither of those choices promotes actual "fairness". It's all about tax revenue.

If you use the term taxes and fairness in the same sentence we’re through the looking glass for sure. But I agree, it’s always an excuse to get in our pockets.

oldfarmer50 · June 2023

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.
Then, you could say the same thing about diesel trucks or Escalades subsidizing Honda Civics. Whoever uses more fuel pays more tax.
Not exactly. Everyone should contribute their fair share of taxes, especially taxes that pay for roads and highways. If you choose to drive a bigger car or a car that uses more fuel, you should pay extra for that privilege, like a luxury tax only an extra charge because you want to drive a larger or faster car....that happens to use more fuel.

But EV drivers want to drive on highways ICE drivers are paying a much larger portion of the bill for.
By that "logic", ICE drivers should pay a bigger share, as they are burning fossil fuels that could harm the environment. They could choose to drive EVs, as well. Which makes as much sense as putting a luxury tax on Escalades.
Yeah but EV owners are still running on electricity produced mainly by fossil fuels so from an environmental standpoint it’s a wash.
The point is: Neither of those choices promotes actual "fairness". It's all about tax revenue.
Taxes aren't fair....in fact when they first came to be they were supposed to be temporary....ha ha.
But, it is really unfair to pay a yearly fee of $200, when ICE drivers are paying....according to JMonroe 61 cents a gallon in taxes. The EV owners are getting a free ride, so to speak.

And to say EVs should get a break because they pollute less is debatable....no one mentions the kids who dig out lithium, or disposing of old batteries, or that a lot of electric power is made with fossil fuels.

This won't intrude on someone's privacy. A meter that attaches to the charging port in the car...the amount of electricity that goes into the car is calculated, and an additional charge of 61 cents for every 30 miles traveled is charged.
How does one equate charging amount to miles driven? As has been pointed out repeatedly, it takes more energy to travel 30 miles in the winter than it does in the summer - which, by the way, is also true with ICE vehicles.
As I learned in business, there are always problems, the guy who finds the solution wins.

You can charge the drivers of ICE vehicles by charging by the gallon, which is not great, but it is about as fair as possible. If you use the roads and services supplied by the government more...then you pay more. If your car uses more fuel you pay more...but that is the car you chose to buy.

Why should EV users use the roads, but not pay an equivalent amount for road usage based on the fuel used. The fairest way would be to tax the electricity being used by the car. With all the electronics and equipment used today, it just means finding a way to calculate how much electricity is being put into the car. Some EVs will go further than others, just like ICE vehicles do.
So you would charge by the kilowatt-hours when the EV is charged up. A sealed monitor is attached to every car......and the onboard computer sends that information to the tax department....eazy peazy.

You never read ‘1984’ did you?

driver100 · June 2023

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.
Then, you could say the same thing about diesel trucks or Escalades subsidizing Honda Civics. Whoever uses more fuel pays more tax.
Not exactly. Everyone should contribute their fair share of taxes, especially taxes that pay for roads and highways. If you choose to drive a bigger car or a car that uses more fuel, you should pay extra for that privilege, like a luxury tax only an extra charge because you want to drive a larger or faster car....that happens to use more fuel.

But EV drivers want to drive on highways ICE drivers are paying a much larger portion of the bill for.
By that "logic", ICE drivers should pay a bigger share, as they are burning fossil fuels that could harm the environment. They could choose to drive EVs, as well. Which makes as much sense as putting a luxury tax on Escalades.
Yeah but EV owners are still running on electricity produced mainly by fossil fuels so from an environmental standpoint it’s a wash.
The point is: Neither of those choices promotes actual "fairness". It's all about tax revenue.
Taxes aren't fair....in fact when they first came to be they were supposed to be temporary....ha ha.
But, it is really unfair to pay a yearly fee of $200, when ICE drivers are paying....according to JMonroe 61 cents a gallon in taxes. The EV owners are getting a free ride, so to speak.

And to say EVs should get a break because they pollute less is debatable....no one mentions the kids who dig out lithium, or disposing of old batteries, or that a lot of electric power is made with fossil fuels.

This won't intrude on someone's privacy. A meter that attaches to the charging port in the car...the amount of electricity that goes into the car is calculated, and an additional charge of 61 cents for every 30 miles traveled is charged.
How does one equate charging amount to miles driven? As has been pointed out repeatedly, it takes more energy to travel 30 miles in the winter than it does in the summer - which, by the way, is also true with ICE vehicles.
As I learned in business, there are always problems, the guy who finds the solution wins.

You can charge the drivers of ICE vehicles by charging by the gallon, which is not great, but it is about as fair as possible. If you use the roads and services supplied by the government more...then you pay more. If your car uses more fuel you pay more...but that is the car you chose to buy.

Why should EV users use the roads, but not pay an equivalent amount for road usage based on the fuel used. The fairest way would be to tax the electricity being used by the car. With all the electronics and equipment used today, it just means finding a way to calculate how much electricity is being put into the car. Some EVs will go further than others, just like ICE vehicles do.
So you would charge by the kilowatt-hours when the EV is charged up. A sealed monitor is attached to every car......and the onboard computer sends that information to the tax department....eazy peazy.
You never read ‘1984’ did you?

I did read 1984, many decades ago. I don't care about being monitored, if someone finds something I am saying on the internet interesting let them knock themselves out.

Now, I don't want them controlling my thermostat which the government can do if you opt for the plan where they offer you $80 but they can cut back on your electrical use say if there is a power shortage.

And my Florida neighbor drives a delivery truck, and they knew if he went over the speed limit and other things...like braking hard. And he could lose his job if he broke the rules or laws too often.

And Allstate would discount my insurance 15% if I added a nanny device.......no way, based on principle - not that I ever would break a law.

snakeweasel · June 2023

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.

Well lets do the math, shall we? $200/$0.184 = 1,086.96. So you have to buy 1,086.96 gallons of gas to pay $200 in tax on gas to pay into the highway trust fund. Say you average 20 MPG that 1,086.96 gallons will take you almost 22,000 miles. Far more than the 12 to 15,000 miles the average driver drives in a year.

So I would say that the ICE cars are not subsidizing EV's.

jmonroe1 · June 2023

@snakeweasel said:
Well lets do the math, shall we? $200/$0.184 = 1,086.96. So you have to buy 1,086.96 gallons of gas to pay $200 in tax on gas to pay into the highway trust fund. Say you average 20 MPG that 1,086.96 gallons will take you almost 22,000 miles. Far more than the 12 to 15,000 miles the average driver drives in a year.

So I would say that the ICE cars are not subsidizing EV's.

————————————————
But, you are only calculating the federal tax. Based on the total tax on gas in PA (rounded to 80 cents per gallon) once an EV owner drives more than 5K miles per year in PA, (averaging your stated 20 miles per gallon), he is being subsidized by ICE owners.

I did a quick check of the total gas tax in Illinois and it’s around 70 cents per gallon. If 70 cents is correct and using the same parameters used above, an ICE owner in Illinois is subsidizing an EV owner once the EV owner drives more than 5,700 miles per year.

Based on a $200 EV registration cost in PA and Illinois, ICE owners in PA would be more philanthropic than ICE owners in Illinois but you guys are still doing pretty good on the philanthropic curve. In other words you guys ain’t exactly cheap.

jmonroe

imidazol97 · June 2023

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.
Well lets do the math, shall we? $200/$0.184 = 1,086.96. So you have to buy 1,086.96 gallons of gas to pay $200 in tax on gas to pay into the highway trust fund. Say you average 20 MPG that 1,086.96 gallons will take you almost 22,000 miles. Far more than the 12 to 15,000 miles the average driver drives in a year.

So I would say that the ICE cars are not subsidizing EV's.

Ohio's gas tax is 38.5 cents per gallon. So that needs to be recalculated.

ronsteve · June 2023

kyfdx said:

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

stickguy said:
they already started surcharging EVs on the registration in some states to replace the gas taxes.
Ohio has a $100 charge for hybrid vehicles and $200 charge for EVs when car is registered annually.
....a once a year payment compared to:
The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. Proceeds from the tax partly support the Highway Trust Fund.

That 18 and 24 cents a gallon must add up to a lot more than $200 a year!

So it means ICE cars are subsidizing EVs and making the cost of owning an EV seem to be less than it is.
Then, you could say the same thing about diesel trucks or Escalades subsidizing Honda Civics. Whoever uses more fuel pays more tax.

Thing is, the diesel trucks and Escalades do a lot more damage to the roads than Honda Civics. If we're going to detach vehicle taxes from fuel usage, there needs to be a weight component.

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