Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2

vadp · January 2003

is the best grade for CA.
5W20 will not harm your engine.
It's just not as stable or long lasting as 10W30.
And the mileage increase with 5W20 would be almost too small to detect.
The most manufacturers recommend the 5W30 or 5W20 weights in order to accomodate the colder climate requirements (the # before "W" represents the flowing charactheristics of oils in the cold engine - the smaller the number, the thinner the oil.)

joffficer · January 2003

I'm the new owner of a Dodge Spirit RT with 115k miles on it. I'm sure it was driven hard (225hsp is hard to resist in a k-car!). I don't have any books on this car or engine (2.2 TIII), so I'm not sure what would be best (viscosity, band etc)?
I'm guessing Castrol GTX would be best, but I've noticed the oil pressure drops(zero) when warm (at idle). People have told me to use 20w-50, but is that a good idea with temps dropping to 20 degrees? I can't image that would help... seems it would be harder for an old pump to get the heavier oil to the bearings! Any ideas while I'm nursing the engine to a rebuild? Are the "high-mileage" oils as good as they look?
It sure doesn't run like it's wornout!

malachy72 · January 2003

on this site

http://www.cybrrpartspro.com/Manual%20Lookup/cal_ModelLookup.html

opera_house_wk · January 2003

The bearings on that engine are already worn out. It is a stupid argument. You will not have any problem using 20W-50.

joffficer · January 2003

opera_house_wk , I'm not sure where I said 20W was "evil". Everything has it's place... my question was if it has a place in my engine when the outside temp's dip below 20 degrees. True my engine is tired, but if I can avoid making things worse I will!
If anyone knows about oil I figured it would be here... please don't take it personal! I'm tolerant of all the viscosities

Some of my best friends are heavy weight...LoL

"People have told me to use 20w-50, but is that a good idea with temps dropping to 20 degrees? I can't image that would help... seems it would be harder for an old pump to get the heavier oil to the bearings! Any ideas while I'm nursing the engine to a rebuild? Are the "high-mileage" oils as good as they look?"

fleetwoodsimca · January 2003

Maybe you could get a "chart" on some brand of 20W-50 and see what the recommended temperature range is, from the oil company's perspective. If you have an owners manual or Haynes/Chilton book, you might get more perspective by searching for a temperature chart. Like you, I would be pretty edgy about using 20W-50 at 20 degrees, or anything under (say) freezing (32 degrees). Have you considered the 15W-40 heavy duty oils, like Valvoline All Fleet?

joffficer · January 2003

A few posts back someone mentioned Chilton's site... A great place for information! I had to use the Daytona RT's specs, but they use the same engine.
15w-40 was the thickest oil suggested for that engine. 20 degrees being the lowest outside temperature. I've never heard much about 15w-40, but remember reading 10w-40 was not good. Something about to many additives needed to get such a large spread.... any ideas if that's the case with 15w-40?

fleetwoodsimca · January 2003

I use 15W-40 in my Honda Valkyrie six cylinder boxer engined Valkyrie. Here is what I posted in the 5W-20 topic:
My unofficial knowledge of the GM basis for requiring 10W-30 to replace America's sweetheart weight (10W-40) may be a parallel argument to the probable(?) Ford/Honda position. I was told that GM determined the elastomers used to extend 10 weight oil out to the equivalent of 40 weight were prone to gumming in the engine. GM felt that shorter elastomers, such as those that would extend 10 weight out to 30, were not so prone to getting "sticky." I heard these tales in 1985. I had a hard time with this upheaval and feared for longevity problems. But I have never been one to keep a vehicle long enough for long elastomers to get me-- yet. I am now one of the many who fear the future under 5W-20... deja vu?

opera_house_wk · January 2003

At this time in your car's life you are doing more damage driving it than starting. With your clearances the oil is flowing too freely at start up. Thicker oil probably gets more oil up to the other areas. What possible damage could you do to your engine at this point. 20 weight is not thick oil.

according2me · January 2003

Texaco/Chevron Havoline was $.99/quart today. All weights.

Off topic- They still have castrol and penske filters also, but no deals.

mike1qaz

armtdm · January 2003

You can go a year easily with synthetic and low mileage, even longer, I have done it. However, I believe a lot depends on how long you do operate the engine once started. If you drive at least 10-15 miles every time you start it then a year is okay as you will burn off condensation etc.. If they take short trips, especially in a cold winter climate the 6 months is pushing it. Do you see white gunk at the tip of the dipstick after sitting a while?

bburton1 · January 2003

is water mixed with oil which will go away when the engine gets hot enough.

fleetwoodsimca · January 2003

Change it out-- filter included.

joffficer · January 2003

I changed the oil in my 2.2l RT. I ended up using Castrol GTX 10W-40 ($7 at wal*mart) with a ST8 filter. After driving it for 300 miles I haven't noticed the pressure dropping below the low limit on the guage. I was surprised to see it make such a difference... being as the oil I replaced was 10W-30. When the temps get over 30 (everyday) I'll use the 20W-50. Thanks for everyone's help... sorry to upset those who felt I was putting down 20W oil!

wain · January 2003

Super tech oil at waldo mart:
5 qt container 10w30 or 5w30 either, at $4.17 a container.

What a price.

csandste · January 2003

but is easily the match of Quaker State. Fair amount of moly, always useful in an oil.

This oil will probably become Shell within the next several months after the Shreveport plant is closed down.

bluedevils · January 2003

I must have missed the discussion(s) on that. Has somebody done an oil analysis on new or used SuperTech to demonstrate it has moly?

greenmax · January 2003

At least in the 5W30 SL formula. Not a whole lot (~50ppm) but enough for a "cheap" oil.

bluedevils · January 2003

How do you know - is it on the data sheet?

greenmax · January 2003

Check the oil analyses at bobisyouknowho.com.

wain · January 2003

How about the question. Your car requires SG oil per the owners manual.
Is a present day cheap oil like Super tech Sl rated oil
better than the older specification SG, but "better brand" oil?
In other words does the specification upgrade form SG to SL override the cheapening resulting from going from a "better" brand oil to say super tech?

fleetwoodsimca · January 2003

The only Supertech oil I have purchased and used was a case of 30 weight I put in my small engine implements that called for that weight. Nonetheless, I have no reason to assume that Supertech is a "lesser brand" in the sense of the oil quality. It is arguable that it is "lesser" only in the marketing sense. Don't we rightfully suspect that all house brands are likely identical to one or more other brands belching forth from that particular refinery?(:o]

csandste · January 2003

It's made in a Shreveport blending plant, soon to be phased out. When that happens the oil will probably be transferred to a Shell refinery to take up additional Equilon capacity after the merger. Whether it will be anything other than Shell/Havoline at that point is anyone's guess. I wouldn't use SG in any car unless I had a lot of Mobil 1 lying around. All SL's are better.

fleetwoodsimca · January 2003

Are you implying that Supertech oil is the only oil produced in that Shreveport plant?

wain · January 2003

about additive package claims too. A company could put one quart of additives in a 50,000 gallon tank of oil and truthfully claim "it has extra additives"

csandste · January 2003

As far as I know, yes. ST is different than other QS/PZ oils. They may make other private brand oils, but I don't know which ones. This was an independent company (Specialty Petroleum) that was taken over by Quaker State before they merged with PZ. Some ST production is Warren out of Council Bluffs, IA. They also produce Sears Spectrum. I think that Ashland Petroleum (Valvoline) produces a lot more of house brands than PZ/QS.

malachy72 · January 2003

that if you pay more for a product, it has to be (by law, I believe) better!

texasjeep · January 2003

Let me know and I can delete it if not.

I have a '90 nissan p/u with 198,000 miles. Are the extended/high mileage oils products worth it?
I run 10w x 30 right now and wanting to switch to a heavier weight.
Should I switch to the castrol 10W-40 high mileagle? They also have a 20W-50.
Thanks

bluedevils · January 2003

If your truck is running okay with almost 200k miles on it, why bother changing oil (brand, viscosity, etc.) now, unless something has changed - e.g. you moved to a different climate, you have a particular problem with the engine and think a different oil may help, etc.

Personally, 10W30 seems okay to me, unless you live in an area that sees REALLY hot temperatures.

fleetwoodsimca · January 2003

malachy72 I forgot and lost my head for a moment, forgetting that more expensive means better!
texasjeep I think you could go to one of the "heavy duty" oils, like Valvoline All Fleet 15W-40. With miles that high, the wear tolerances in the engine might be better lubed with the slight weight increase.

csandste · January 2003

The Castrol high mileage oil got a fair amount of good press early on. Castrol apparently deleted the moly after putting it in their high mileage oil several months after introducing it. Since I can get a fair amount of moly with my lowly SuperTech, I use ST in all my cars including those pushing 200K. The high mileage oils will treat seals--supposedly.

If the weather is warm enough I like a 15W40 better than a 10W40 although the high detergency of a diesel oil could (possibly) knock loose some sludge out of a high mileage engine. If nothing's leaking or giving you trouble I think it's hard to beat plain 'ol SL rated 10W30.

knapp3 · January 2003

I know 1 example doesn't prove a point, but I've been pleased with the results of Penn HM oil so far. I used Val DuraBlend in my van at 84K for just 3K miles and I was very disappointed to see that engine develop leaks for the 1st time. Switched to the High Mileage stuff and the leaking slowed down considerably, but hasn't stopped yet. I'm about to change it and run some more HM to see if contined use eventually stops the leaking. It appears to me that the small amount esters in this oil do have some impact on leaky seals. And according the the guru's at Bob's house, it contains a small amount of moly. If it works, hopefully I can move back to plain ole SL 10W30.

americanflag · January 2003

Blackstone Labs said on their site that they are one of the things they found that really make a difference. They also said they don't see an advantage to synthetic.

americanflag · January 2003

get things going before starting your engine and help to prevent cold starts supposedly.

adc100 · January 2003

Proably what they really meant is that they saw no difference between oil analysis results of syn and non syn. But certainly the advantage of syn is that it goes at least twice as long. Try comparing a dino oil to a syn oil after say 10K.

fleetwoodsimca · January 2003

No thanx! I can and will afford oil and filter changes long before 10K. (:o] Uh oh... I'm getting that icy feeling of deja vu-- all over again.

adc100 · January 2003

I'm not criticizing your methods. I have just noticed that both oils do about equally the same up to say 4K. It's pretty obvious though that much bove that the additives go belly up trying to slow down oxidation of many non syn oils. Shaeffers is the one notable exception. I can fully appreciate the 4K change with conventional oil. Its just not an option for me with the number of cars I take care of right now.

opera_house_wk · January 2003

That had a pressurised bladder that held about 1 1/2 quarts. When you first turned on the key, a timer opened an electric valve for a couple of seconds. a reduced flow one way valve slowly recharged the system when pressures were highest. Haven't seen it for a long time but would be simple to build.

joffficer · January 2003

I remember hearing about them about ten years ago.... sounded like a good idea. Did they not work as advertised, or was it just to much for to little?

fleetwoodsimca · January 2003

I used synthetics for about 15 years, and only once let a car get up to 10K. That's a major reason I went back to mineral oil. And, the subterfuge that was going on in the synthetic market finally got to me. My favorite brew was Amsoil, until I got ahold of some Redline. These were both advertised as being ester based at the time. I might have stayed with the Redline, but I got annoyed by the costs, and realized I could do very well with mineral oils with frequent oil and filter changes.

armtdm · January 2003

Do work in reducing wear but who cares. Over the life of the typical engine and time someone keeps a vehicle the benefits of using one of these is not worth a hill of beans.

Regular good maintenence will more then suffice

fleetwoodsimca · January 2003

I appreciate your voice of reason. I would tend to think that preoilers are gilding the lily for most vehicle owners. Long haul trucking, etc., is another story. There, one might get some value out of such a system.

americanflag · January 2003

I wonder if when they say they don't see a difference in Syn vs Dino, if it because most dino users change at 3k while synthetic users go much longer. Maybe if you changed both synthetic and dino at 3k, their would be a difference. And speaking of pre-oilers, doesn't synthetic offer better cold start protection? I thought this was one of the few things in the motor oil world that was undisputed...

adc100 · February 2003

I really stopped bashing non-synthetic oils some time ago because I started to see that at 3-5K miles some synthetics put up better numbers than Mobil1 (I still use Mobil1 is a couple of vehicles). Take a look at Bob's board and there are 3 drain intervals for 10W-30 Chevron Supreme.

If I stil enjoyed changing oil I would still consider Dino Oils. But those days are gone forever.

bottgers · February 2003

I've had Valvoline's Max Life in now for about 3K miles. I haven't noticed one bit of difference in oil consumption, it's still using just as much as before. My personal take on this stuff is that it probably helps condition seals to help stop leaks, but does nothing to slow consumption due to worn rings, valve guides, etc. This car hasn't had any leakage problems, so when it's time for another oil change, I'm switching back to Chevron SL.

knapp3 · February 2003

I agree bottgers. I switched to Pennzoil high mileage and saw slightly less consumption, but still more than enough to disappoint, given the advertising claims. But I must say, the leaks I did have slowed considerably.

fleetwoodsimca · February 2003

Have you considered using a higher viscosity of oil to slow the consumption? I mean, like go to the "heavy duty" oils, such as Valvoline 15W-40, or even on up to Shell 20W-50. An alternative that might slow the burning of oil would be to add the Walmart equivalent of (or the genuine) STP. NAPA sells a seal sweller under the Mac's brand name. This stuff is great for stopping pesky engine oil leaks.

knapp3 · February 2003

No I haven't, and I'm afraid my engine wouldn't perform too well with an oil more resistant to flow. I don't know about Maxlife, but Pennzoil HM oil is already blended at the higher end of the viscosity range. At 100C, cSt its 10W30 Viscosity is 12.0 (vs 10.5) for regular 10W30. That's probably the design feature that allows Pennzoil to claim it helps with consumption in the 1st place. But I will check out the Mac seal sweller, as I suspect my leak is oil induced. Thanks.

p9ccg1 · February 2003

I have read through many of the posts on this board, my question is, taking the higher cost of synthetic out of the equation, which is better, dino or synthetic? I have an 03 Pathfinder that I want to maintain as well as possible and am not too worried about spending a little more on synthetic oil. The reason I ask is that a mechanic at Nissan told me that synthetic oil leaves more residue in the engine than regular oils. Also, on my last oil change I used Mobil 1 Synthetic and plan to go 5000 miles between changes, any thoughts, recommendations on this approach/brand? Thanks

bluedevils · February 2003

A Nissan mechanic actually told you that synthetic engine oil leaves more 'residue' than dino oil? That goes against just about everything else you will hear on this subject.

I don't use synthetic oil any more, and even though conventional oils are getting better and better and are narrowing the gap, synthetic is still the better product.

5000 mile intervals with Mobil 1 should serve your vehicle quite well. You could probably stretch the interval to 7000-8000 miles without worry, but if the extra cost doesn't bother you, 5000 miles is an okay starting point.

I used Mobil 1 in the past and my comfort zone was 5000-6000 miles. Wasn't willing to go any further than that without doing oil analysis, and wasn't willing to do oil analysis.

Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2

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