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However, in the real world, Valvoline and blends both seem to do fairly well, so I wouldn't sweat it at all. You probably could do almost as well for less money with Pennzoil dino, which is one of the few group II+ oils out there, but if you like Valvoline, there's no reason to suspect this as being a bad oil.
Four thousand mile changes shouldn't be much of a problem with any SL oil, unless your car is a Toyota or one of the other sludge monsters. Don't know much about Ram engines, but this is probably not the case.
http://www.ford.co.uk/ie/service_repair/service_service/serv_intervals/-/-/-/-
I mention Ford because of course there are Ford cars in both Countrys.
So why is it that you need to change the oil so frequently .. is it over precautionary or is it necessary? Surely it must substantially increase the annual cost of running a car in the States ?
Do you have higher oil standards? I understand BMW and Mercedes do, also VW.
And yeah, when in America do as Americans do. Ford's recommendation over here is 5,000 miles regular driving, 3,000 miles severe, except if you live in Canada you are automatically on the "severe" schedule, and Ford requires a specially manufactured oil, their 5-20 which is a well made oil and gets great test results.
Also don't forget the time factor. They are serious about the "or 12 months" part. For a lot of people that will be a factor. The principle is, if you are driving on the freeway, which is easy on the oil, you will hit the miles first. If you are doing stop and go, you may hit the time first.
Finally, keep in mind that manufacturers are often under pressure to show extended intervals (environmental concerns, costs of ownership) while dealers will push more frequent service (protects car better, more money for dealers). Over here all the Honda dealers push for 3,000 mile oil changes, although the manual and the factory call for 10,000 mile oil changes....
He told me that the car only needs servicing every 10,000 miles or 12 months whichever is sooner, and definately does not need additional interim oil changes irrespective if you are doing stop go traffic or motorway crusing. This is because it uses Fords own 5W-30 semi-synthetic oil (as most manufacturers do apparently). He quoted me the following service costs over 5 years:
Years 1 & 2: £127, Year 3 £152, Year 4 £163 and Year 5 £127. All figures plus tax at 17.5%.
Now assuming the dealer will always find additional things that need doing to the car at those times, lets increase the service costs by £50, so I make that a total of £1114 ($1700) over 5 years including Tax. Also, note that is the total service invoice, including spark plugs, other filters etc, not just oil changes.
If you were to do the oil changes yourself, the oil filter and 5W-30 oil from the dealer is £33 ($50) including Tax. That is the dealer price, and can easily be reduced by 10% - 15% by shopping around.
Now I see from this link, that oil changes in LA are $29.99 plus Tax at 8.5% making $32.50 http://www.ezlube.com/services01.html so assuming you do interim oil changes every 3000 miles, that's $65 extra on top of your dealers service charges at 9000 miles intervals.
How much are the typical dealer service charges in the States for a comparable vehicle? It would be interesting to make a service cost comparision between a similar SUV over a 5 year period in the States.
Interesting though that the UK dealers are not pushing for additional oil changes ...
Dealer maintenance is expensive though, and mostly worthless.
If I was rating the top four sellers at least for additive levels it would be 1. Pennzoil, 2. Quaker State, 3. Castrol, 4. Valvoline. Even Valvoline works very well in the real world. Keeping oil changes in the 4000 mile range seems to be more important than brand.
www.bobistheoilguy.com
My question to the experts out there is what damage if any may have occurred because of this low oil situation with the oil so dirty. Any and all input will be greatly appreciated.
Are you tracking the mileage between oil changes? The oil shouldn't have been filthy the time before. Maybe she is neglecting regular oil changes, that's my guess.
Let us know what the rate of consumption is between oil changes (did she use 2 quarts in 3,000 miles, or in 10,000 miles?). Even in 3,000 miles it's usually ok, but she's going to have to top off between oil changes.
Also follow her in your car, after her car is well warmed up so there is no water vapor out the tail pipe, have her do some full throttle accelerations, both from stop and up a freeway ramp, and watch for blue smoke. If you don't see any, you probably don't have a problem. Blue smoke generally means worn piston rings, but that would be unusual these days at the mileage you report.
It's also possible there is some valve guide wear, or the valves are not seating well. There isn't anything you can do about valve guide wear, but it isn't serious, just a little oil will seep into the combustion changes past the valve stems. If the valves aren't seating well due to crud, there is a cheap, quick fix.
Just run a bottle of Techroline or similar intake system cleaner through the gas tank. Fill up the gas tank, add one bottle. Next fill-up, not bottle, so you don't overlap the concentrations. Then another fillup with another bottle. That stuff is good for taking gunk off valves.
See if that helps.
BTW.. why is the oil filter disscussion 'read only'?
Host
Shifty
Anyway, BACK TO ENGINE OIL. E-mail me with any further questions that are "off-topic", okay?
I am wondering if any forum participant has evidence as to whether (Global) Havoline is essentially the same product as Chevron Supreme. I have been considering them as two labels/one product. How similar are the formulas of the two?
Also, for what it's worth, some of you were discussing Valvoline earlier. The only Valvoline I've used was their Max Life. I have a '93 Tercel with a little over 110K miles that smokes when I first start it in the morning and I thought I'd give the ML a try. It did absolutely nothing to stop, or even slow down the smoking. Needless to say, I didn't care for the ML. I can't speak for any of their other oils though because I haven't used them.
I have come around to believing in 3,000 mile oil changes, because that way the additive pack is always fresh, the oil hasn't thickened due to boil-off (modern motors can run really hot), it hasn't thinned due to shearing of viscoscity index improvers. Also the filter is still fresh.
I'd follow the "conservative" side of the owner's manual. My Ford calls for maximum 5,000 miles, minimum 3,000. My Honda called for 10,000/5,000 (but the dealer recommended 3,000 miles anyway); my 1999 and 2002 Neons called for 7,5000 or 3,750 intervals, but the 2004 Neon calls for 6,000 or 3,000 mile intervals; I think Chevy calls for 7,500 or 3,000 mile changes.
Chevy also has oil life monitors that typically come on at 4,000 miles. My Scion has an oil change light that comes on temporarily at 5,000 miles, and lights solid at 7,500 miles.
5,000 miles seems to be the most any manufacturer (other than BMW/Mini/Mercedes/Saab) recommends to be on the safe side. 3,000 mile recommendations are more common than in the past, possibly because in the trade off between being "environmentally responsible" (read: longer oil change intervals) and protecting the car during extended (read: past 60,000 miles) initial owenership, the manufacturer's are trying to protect owners more...and are not fighting the dealers, who have always been promoting 3,000 mile changes.
Jiffy Lube writes you down for another 3,000 mile change even if you use their Pennzoil "full synthetic," which is another highly refined dino oil.
If you are driving a low revving, push rod engine with an automatic, light loads, 5,000 mile changes are probably fine.
But I like the added protection of a true synthetic, kept fresh with 3,000 mile changes. I want to keep the cars a long time, yet take them to redline with my manual transmission.
For me, fresh oil is the cheapest part of ownership....
Jon
BTW, did you ever do oil tests on your track rat 318? And do you think wear metals in the oil tell the whole story? I wonder if larger chunks of wear metal aren't just picked up by the oil filter...I would think for a complete test you'd need to sample the top layer of the oil filter for deposits, too....
Question: I read somewhere (I don't recall where) that the new "SL"-rated dino oil is very, very close to a "full synthetic" in terms of its engine anti-wear package, its ability to withstand very hot engine operating temperatures and its ability to keep the engine's internal parts very clean (assuming I stay with 5K oil/filter changes). So, I'm asking myself whether it would be ok to change from Mobil-1 to a high quality "SL" Dino oil (any brand-name suggestions?)in terms of hot weather operation, and long engine life (150K - 200K). Any suggestions and/or comments would be appreciated. Thanks !
If you drive for the long haul...I think M1 is still the best, it has very consistent molecule size (even SL and 5-20 oils have much greater variation)for viscoscity consistency, the least volatility (which keeps your intake cleaner) and no paraffin.
Given your own 15 year experience, why change now? The extra cost of the M1 is easily offset in saving you time, certainly, and also mostly pure out of pocket wise, because you are almost doubling the intervals.
You could always tell a "Pennzoil engine" because they were jammed up with sludge.
My guess is your wasting a lot of money and good oil by dumping full syn at 3K. From what I've seen from various analysis results almost all full syns show good numbers out to 7.5K, and most of those are good for 10K. Even some of the worst dinos are good for 3K. But hey, you could send me your used syn, I'll use it. I'm sure it's still good.
isellhondas
Where have you been for the last decade or so? Pennzoil hasn't gummed up engines for at least that long.
Fowvay
I didn't think the color of the oil in any way indicated its quality, I was just wondering why the new Pennzoil was so much darker than what I'm used to seeing.
Keep in mind that most wear occurs at startup, and 5W flows much better than 10W. Versus, even when it is 125 degrees outside, your cooling system is regulating the engine to a max temperature. Of course the cooling system may be momentarily overwhelmed if you have the aircon on and are towing while going up a hill.... in which case you probably need an auxiliary oil cooler, not a thicker oil....
I suggest, based on personal experience, Amsoil 5W-30. Mostly it is sold by mail order and it is an excellent oil, with a rather high viscocity, almost a 10W-30.
If you don't believe in the greater protection offered by real synthetic oils (like Amsoil, Redline and Mobil 1) I suggest Pennzoil 15W-40 for the whole year except winter (5w-30 would be better) and keep doing oil changes at 3k intervals.
I tried some additives with limited results.
Should I consider a "flush" the new oil change?
Is the flush likely to lead to burning and leaking at 85000 miles????
Which weight oil 5-30 or 10-30 or 10-40 would lead to quietest running during the summer in New England?????
Thanks
Again, depending on the manufacturer's formulation that is compared to, in general on the high temperature end viscosities are pretty much the same or very close.
__________________________________________
SAE Viscosity Grade Standard Temperature Range Descriptions
Below 0°F -- 0W-30 (Energy Conserving)
0°F -- 5W-30 (Energy Conserving)
+10°F -- 10W-40
Note: Always check your owner's manual or warranty requirements before using this grade.
+32°F -- 20W-50
+40°F -- SAE 30
+60°F -- SAE 40
__________________________________________
The 5W-30s are listed as Energy Conserving for a reason. These oils generally meet SAE testing requirements for actually reducing friction by maintaining consistent film across a broader range of temperatures. The 10W-40s do not. This means that even at 25°F a 5W-30 will produce better flow and consequently reduce internal friction better. At the high temperature end a 10W-30 will not have any quantitive advantage over a 5W-30.
The only advantage that a 10W-30 might have over any specific 5W-30 is the ability to resist breakdown (ie: high temp. viscosity loss, low temp viscosity gain, additive package separation, etc.) since molecular stretching will generally be less in a 10W-30. However, even in this area these two oil grades are fairly close. Since most automotive-sensitive people (ie: auto-anal) tend to rely on more frequent oil changes with conventional motor oils, the advantage may be moot. Some 5W-30s will actually last longer.
In synthetic blends it is likely totally irrelevant.
Best regards,
Dusty
Everyone seems to have an opinion on this. I would like to hear yours.
Not including the few brands (Honda) that say NOT to change the oil early because they use a break in oil - on all other makes, what do you guys think about changing the oil early (first 500 to 1,000 miles?
I called four Chysler dealers and got different answers:
Two old schoolers said change it early in case there is any "casting sand" in the engine.
One said new technology (engine and oil) make the early change rule obsolete.
The fourth said "follow the manual" ie. change at the recommended interval (3 or 6 K).
Could an early change be somehow detrimental, assuming you don't have break in oil?
Thank you