Honda Accord problems

reddogs · February 2000

in saying most "perceived" problems are
really training issues and thats what the "cutomer interactor" (salesman/service
rep/software trainer) has to do when perceived "bugs/problems" pop up.

In the case of 25K automobiles and buyers remorse its gonna cost more so you have to have the service rep weed out "perceived" problems and get only the real ones, thats his job and responsibilty.

So if he knows or finds out its a "real bug" he had better fix it straight up otherwise explain to the customer what he can and can't do for their problem. If he has to replace parts with new ones to make it right, then thats the way to go. If they have buyers remorse and want a new car, then the customer must pay for his problem not the dealers/car.

But, even though I agree the dealer can't just replace a car because you don't like it, or it didn't meet your expectations, he still has a responsibilty BEFORE you buy it because one test drive isn't gonna tell you everything you need to know. It is the salemans/dealers responsibilty just as much as the buyers (50/50) to get them into a car that fits their needs, and they will enjoy and feel comfortable with instead of just pressuring them to "buy it now".

Most users have a good idea what they are looking for, but NO or VERY LITTLE idea what's out there. So the salemans/dealers must educated them (training) about their products BEFORE they buy not after.

richrf · February 2000

Dear tomhan,

I'll keep you posted on what happens from my end with the fuel boilover problem. I really resent it when dealers sell cars with known problems and then pretend there is nothing wrong with it. My dealer didn't even want me to officially report the fuel boilover issue but I insisted on having it documented. I am glad I did.

Rich

jin_satx · February 2000

Reddogs,

I am assuming you have never been in a really competitive, dog-eat-dog, sales business. Well, the car business is the worst. First, most customers haven't got a clue as to the function of money, i.e. down payment and monthly payment. When I took a break from the computer field a few years ago, after 25 years in the field (old dog), I was offered a job as a team leader/manager at a friends Nissan dealership. While we at this forum are pretty savy buyers, most people dont't have a clue. They come in for a Maxima, because thats what they want, but leave with a sentra, because that's what they can afford. It was my sales peoples responsibility to try to be as consultative as possible while not insulting the customer or slam-dunking him into a car they did not like. However, it was not their responsibility to be the buyers parent or guardian. It was still up to the customer to say yes or no on my affordable choices, or go to another dealership. Believe me, many customers that left our dealership because we were honest on what their affordable choices were, turned to the next dealership and got slam dunked into something worse. Unfortunately, when you dash some peoples hopes of their dream car and sell them something more sensible, they may develop this "perceived" problem scenario because they really wanted the other car and have buyers remorse. Happens in dealerships around the country every day, and this is not the dealers fault. I know some people that bought a car from a one simple price dealer, no haggling, pressure, etc., just here's the price, do you want it. These people hated their choice and tried to get the dealer to take it back. When he wouldn't do that (it was already titled and would have to be sold as a used car at a loss - not good business practice), they started complaining about everything, cited the lemmon law, etc. eventhough the car did not have any "real" problems.

To all potential buyers out there, do your homework, know your financial possiblities and be realistic. Be careful, it is the salesmans job to sell you a car, that is why he is called a salesman. He is not there to protect you from yourself. If you have a real problem with a car, hold your ground and make sure they fix it. However, if you don't like the road noise and it is normal, don't expect the dealer to jump through hoops because there really isn't anything he can ever do to satisfy you. This is because you made the wrong choice, not him.

reddogs · February 2000

I have been in sales, one of the top stores in the country, winning sales awards every other month, selling apple/ast/compaq/etc.. working on the side as consultant setting them up....holding their hands as I walked them through the basics....and our store manager wanted more....

He drilled the basics, number one "QUALIFY...QUALIFY...QUALIFY" and if that customer showed any uncertainty start again..
We racked and cranked bells to bells and if a buyer ever showed remorse it was us who ended up on the managers rack.

But enough of the good times, back to the cars..
I know letting a customer walk off the lot without a car is the ultimate cardinal sin but their are alternatives. My friends won't pay 22-27k (400-500/month) for a new 2000 SUV, but they will go for a used/leftover/demo for 17-20k (300-400/month) or a lease at 250-300/month. With all the leases coming back now, a 2 year old car/SUV coming back will still be under warranty and a tremendous buy. There are a million ways to make a good deal for the customer, but if you dont start with the basics it's the blind leading the blind straight to deal h-ll......

Qualify/educate/sell to their needs.......simple..

black_tulip · February 2000

What has all this got to do with Accord
problems?

reddogs · February 2000

...this is the honda page, Ok insert "Honda Accord" everywhere I said 'SUV' or 'car', there thats better........

Some of the "problems/issues" that people come up with are nothing but pure "buyers remorse" and that is directly related to how the sale and service was handled. Sorry if we went a bit deep......

drichards1 · February 2000

We bought our first Honda, a 99 Honda LX V6, very happy with it until problems starting mounting. Tires replaced at 6000 miles, spark plugs and a WT (water temperature) sensor replaced at 8000 miles. We have reported to the dealer a problem with cold starts, this led to the sprk plug replacement. The car is garaged nightly during the cold NH nights and can take up to 5 secs for it to finally catch afterthe ignition turned on. When it does catch it acts like a flooded carbeurator. The dealer kept the car for many days trying to repeat the cold start, finally succeeding. They even went as far as putting a 2000 model V6 in the garge overnite with my car and would you believe they found the 2000 model to have the same problem. Now i'm not sure if my problem is the same as what has been posted many times about "fuel boil over" problem, would like to get feedback. Oh, and I have not had auto tranny problems other than noticing long shifts. Given the track record of the car so far I 'm crossing my fingers... I may be looking to trade if things persist.

acmeroadrunnr · February 2000

The "fuel boil over" symptom happens when you drive the car for awhile and turn it off and try to restart it immediately, not a cold engine symptom. It starts after it cools down. I haven't experienced this, but if you read back you too can see the symptoms others have posted.

My I4 is parked outside every night, we've had temps of zero and well below with wind factor and it does crank for about 2-3 seconds before it turns over, but it always starts. Actually I would prefer this, because it allows the oil to get up into the cylinders before it fires up. On the other hand, my '96 Buick fires up immediately and I can hear the lifters banging for my first 5 minutes of driving (definitely some wear going on here).

Why did the tires get replaced?

isellhondas · February 2000

Am I missing something...

The car is ice cold and it takes several seconds to start? " Up to" five seconds.

One thousand one...one thousand two etc...

Is that a "problem"?

Now, if it acts funny (flooded?) after it does start, that's something else.

It just doesn't seem to me that five seconds is a long time...

jin_satx · February 2000

For all of you with the cold weather starting problems, move to south texas, 80 today, Accord starts just fine. However, before you come, get a tint job.

P.S. - Golf at 7:30 AM tomm. morn - will be wearing shorts and a golf shirt. Have fun starting your cars.

richrf · February 2000

I spoke to the lawyer the other day. The Lemon Law in Illinois can be invoked if the car is in the dealer three times and the problem is still not fixed. For those of you who have been experiencing the Fuel Boil Over problem, it is important that the car be taken in each time this problem occurs and the dealer acknowledges that the car has been taken in.

Dealers and manufacturers are going to be very cagey because they know about Lemon Laws (at this time all Honda dealers know about this problem, yet they are still selling the cars without making customers aware of the issue). They will not put in writing that the problem "cannot be fixed at this time". They will make some vauge notation. But make them make the notation no matter what. Once it has been in three times, you can invoke the Lemon Law.

Rich

hondashppr · February 2000

difference b/t bulletin board & chat room. Please waste less of our time w/ non-Honda (non-car)ramblings.

jsbutler · February 2000

I have an 1987 Accord Fuel injected that the
"PGM FI" light comes on and stalls out
occasionally. My mechanic couldn't find the
problem and I am avoiding the dealer to try
and keep the cost down. Anyway using the
Service manuel and following it to a T,
I was getting a code 7 (Throttle Angle Sensor)
it checks out ok with a Volt meter at the
ECU (Computer), then it suggested replacing
the ECU with a good one, did that, still same
code and problem.
Can anyone steer me in the right direction
(other than the dealer, who is 40 miles away).
Thanks

redcorn · February 2000

1992 Accord with 68,500 miles. What's the timeframe for replacing shocks/struts on this vehicle?

Thanks,

RedCorn

celestialone · February 2000

Only had my car for 1 1/2 months, less than 1000 miles, and have heard groaning noises coming from what sounds to be the driver's side, possibly around the rear tire area. The noises occur only occasionally while car is parked, and continue up to 4 hours after being parked. The groan gets lower and lower after time. Cannot hear while driving, because cannot really hear it from the interior. This has been going on since car was only a week old. Dealer said they could not investigate if cannot hear the noise. Problem is that the noises occur only occasionally, and are not predictable. It has been suggested that it could be the fuel pump. I am clueless. Your input would be appreciated.

redcorn · February 2000

My 2000 Odyssey does the same thing. I hear it when it is parked in the garage. It does not always make the noise, and it is more of a thump or click than a groan, but it does make the noise. I think fuel pump. Nothing to get too worked up about, in my opinion.

Now, know anything about shocks and struts on a 92 Accord?

RedCorn

acmeroadrunnr · February 2000

If you dig through the old Accord 2 posts (maybe even in here) there were others that noted the same thing. I can't recall exactly what it was, but it wasn't a mechanical problem.

spokane · February 2000

Because you do have a new ECU, I think it's likely you have a defective throttle angle sensor even though the meter indication is OK. The problem could be an intermittent open circuit in the sensor or the wiring between the sensor and the ECU. Try moving the throttle mechanism and wiring while checking circuit continuity for an intermittent open or shorted circuit. Do this with both a hot and cold engine if necessary. Good luck.

dkrab · February 2000

I have a 98 LX 4 cyl 5sp. Every morning it stumbles briefly about 5 minutes into the drive. The dealer checked it out and discovered the stumble takes place as the computer switches from cold to warm operation (he said something to the effect of closed to open loop operation; I asked for layman's terms and got the cold to warm transition explanation). Mine was the first he noticed that did this, but upon examining other cars he noted that most 5sp 4cyl 98 Accords did this as well. He claims to have contacted Honda about it, but they do not have a fix.

It is a minor problem, done it since new and never gotten worse after 44K miles, but I would like to know if anyone out there has either noticed this or has found a fix.

spokane · February 2000

The dealer's explanation does seem reasonable. I believe quite a few cars experience this but it's often so subtle that it isn't noticed. I agree it's probably a minor problem; the fact that the behavior has not changed since new is consistent with the closed-to-open loop changeover diagnosis.

Assuming the engine stumbles briefly, but never stalls, I would not be very concerned about this condition even though it is a bit irritating.

wsommariva · February 2000

Maybe a shock/strut, whatever you call them, setteling? Try pressing down on the corner of the car where the sound comes from and see if it makes more or less noise or no difference.

lawrence_luk · February 2000

I bought my 2000 Accord EX 4cyc on Nov,99. After I took my car to highway, I already noticed there were :
1) vibraion on steering and gas padel after 80km/h..Of course, faster speed more vibration.

2) Pull to left..faster speed, I could feel more

My car had been done balance wheels, replaced left front tires, changed both side axis!!

Now my car has run 5600km and waited for 1st oil change. I could feel that vibration starting around 90km/h..faster speed more vibration..but Pull to left problem had gone..

Is that vibration normal? I think it is not..
This kind of vibration will keep on after the speed has been over 90km/h and then slow down to 70km/h...It will still vibrate, but less..

Does anyone have the same problem?
Is this vibration coming from transmission??

Thank you

stefnee · February 2000

I bought my 99 Accord Ex 5 sp in June. Since then it has been to the dealer 5 time for a clicking noise I heard when I would turn the steering wheel to the right. After the first three visits, I got the service manager involved and he decided on the fourth visit that I had defective wheel bearings and they were replaced. Last week made visit 5. The service manager then told me that he now knows what the problem is, Rust build up between the wheel and hub.

When I got back to my office I called Honda of America to ask if there was a service bulletin or recall for this "rust build up". I was told there was none on my car. When I went to get my car, I asked for a copy of the service bulletin the service manager told me about, so if you here a clicking noise, something similar to when you have a rock in your tire treads, this is what you need.

Service bulletin 99-093 dtd: 16 Nov 99

Applies to: 1998-00 Accord - ALL Japan production (VIN starts with JHM)

Symptom: Clicking noise comes from a wheel/tire, usually at low speed while turning a corner after the wheels and hubs have heated up.

Probable Cause: Rust between the hub and wheel

Corrective Action: Clean off the rust and lubricate the face of hub.

Now my question is, a friend of mine always said he would never but a Japanese car because in Japan there seems to be a problem with their metal and how it rust easily. Is this true? If so what do I need to look for in the future to prevent this rusting?

Stefnee :-)

garth · February 2000

the accord has been made in ohio for over a decade. now, is ohio a "rust belt" state? if so, stefnee, your friend may be onto something...

lancerfixer · February 2000

I don't know about Japanese steel, but garth, not ALL us market Accords are built in Ohio. Most are, some are still shipped from Japan. Mine was built in Marysville, but a good friend of mine just bought a new Accord which took the three hour tour to get here.

reddogs · February 2000

LAX??

isellhondas · February 2000

Honda struts rarely if ever wear out. We do about one set a year and that's because the customer insisted on it.

But...If you take your Honda (or any other car) to a couple of the well known chain stores, they will try their best to sell you new ones!

bnormann · February 2000

Which Honda models have struts? I thought most of them had "double wishbones"? If so, then the shock absorber does not have any side loads on it and will last a long time. I still have the OEM units on my 1991 CRX.

Your host, Bruce

spokane · February 2000

The double-wishbone suspension Hondas do have struts but they are not McPherson struts. They are classified as struts rather than shock absorbers because the spring and damping unit are installed in the chassis as one assembly. You are correct, Bruce, that this double-wishbone arrangement causes less horizontal force on the damper than would occur with other common strut configurations. Indeed, the Honda units apparently do have excellent longevity.

urchin34 · February 2000

Personally, rather than demeaning Richrf for wanting to invoke the lemon law, I would listen to his advise. I spent 9 years with a Honda Accord that often (like at least 100 times) did not start in hot weather. The problems began less than a year after buying the car. Each time I took the car in (about 30), I complained of this, but it only got written on the invoice 3 times, and in a different way each time. The supposed repair in each of these cases was also so different that it would be hard to claim it as the same problem. Make sure every complaint you have is documented and worded in such a way that if you have a lemon you can prove it -- no matter what type of car it is.

urchin34 · February 2000

Can't argue with isellhondas. I believe struts were one of the few things I didn't have to replace in those 9 years.

bmoolenaar · February 2000

As promised in post #26, here is my update on the transmission shudder fix.

Finally got the torque converter replaced this past week. It took 4 weeks to receive the replacement torque converter - on backorder. Shudder is gone. No other problems so far, dealer appears to have done a good job.

I was somewhat freaked when I saw the extent to which the service guy had to disassemble the front end to make this replacement. Oh yeah, I thought, this is a front wheel drive car, and the engine is "sideways". It looked like lots of suspension and steering stuff had to come off first. Dealer said he had to buy a special piece of equipment to support the engine while removing the transmission, made it a two day repair, instead of the one day they originally quoted.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed. So far, we're pleased (relieved might be a better word).

urchin34 · February 2000

I've been checking various boards here since July 1999. Anytime someone complains about a Honda in any of the Honda forums, they get called names and are personally assaulted. I don't get it. It doesn't happen in any of the others I visited before buying my Lexus and Isuzu Rodeo. Yep, even the bad comments about the Isuzu didn't keep me from buying it, because at least the discussions were civil. My Honda had starting problems for 9 years (yes, I know, I'm a stupid fool and every other name in the book for keeping it that long - so spare me the insults) which are well documented by other owners in Topic #436. Worse than the years with the Honda was the treatment I (and now richrf and others) received when we complained.

bnormann · February 2000

Spokane,

I guess the "new" name for the concentric spring and shock is "coilover"... thats all I see in the mags now.

Bruce

acmeroadrunnr · February 2000

Most posters don't deny the fact that there is a slight possibility that richf may have a few minor
problems with his car. poor richf...
richf gets called names because his main goal is to repeat the same f$#%ened thing over-and-over again. His car really doesn't have all the problems he lists, he "reads" of other problems and thinks he's going to have problems, therefore he has deducted that all Honda's are pieces of
crap. Now he has to inform all new comers to the
forum (whether they're interested in buying or not) to beware of Honda America -they are bad people.

Yes, martyr richf is on a mission to save the
wary from the bad Honda people. He's rediculous, and yes some fools will take his advice and follow him.

BTW: Check out the Odyssey forums. There's lot's of Honda haters over there too! But many more are satisfied Honda owners as I am.

bnormann · February 2000

still talking about Accords..., then acmeroadrunner's post must be in code. {%^)

Actually, it appears that we are talking about each other and that is the road to ruin and other BAD things. In the hierarchy of discourse, the order is: Ideas, Things, then People. Let's ratchet things up to "Things" at least....

Thanks,
your host, Bruce.

reddogs · February 2000

The majority of Hondas are trouble-free so if you start complaining of minor problems (car wont start) they are irritated and blow the complainer out of the topic. Now if you have drivetrain problems, that is serious and every potential buyer would like to know about it and more. If my Honda had starting problems, I'd be at the dealers 9 minutes later and make sure he fixed it or else he wouldn't be a dealer much longer when I finished with him. So either way, it doesnt look good when you sit on a problem for 9 years and don't get it fixed or you complain about something that was a minor problem and you couldn't handle it.

vmelab · February 2000

I have a 2000 Accord V6 coupe with 3.3K miles on it. I never saw the low fuel indicator on so far. So I kept the fuel really low (it drops below "E" and 370 miles before last fill-up), the light is still not on. I filled it up with 16.2 gallons. The tank size is 17.1 gallons. In other words, the light is still not on with less than a gallon in the tank.
Does anyone experience this problem too?

jmoy3 · February 2000

My 2000 accord v6 transmission takes long shifts from 1st to 2nd gear (feels like the transmission is slipping). When it shifts from 1st and 2nd gear, it makes a whining noise. After a couple times, the whining noise is annoying.

Next, I tried 87, 93, and 94 at Sunco, Mobil, and Exxon. Now, I use 87 or 93 at Exxon and the whining does not occur as often compare to Sunco or Mobil. The whining occurs 30% of the time but the shifts are better (Still annoying).

I even test drove a demo car with 6000 miles and could not make it whine. Service manager said shifting of the gears is control by the computer and varies from 1 to 1.5 sec. I asked if the shifts could be adjusted and he said no.

After that, I thought I was being very picky and left the dealership. Then I found this post in the Honda Odssey Problems.
--------------------------------------------

#43 of 571: SOLUTION: ROUGH SHIFTING 1st-2nd (fsh22) Sat 29 May '99 (07:55 PM)

I posted a couple of months ago about how my
Odyssey seemed to shift roughly from 1st to 2nd
gear. It also seemed to take too long to shift
between these gears. Well, I finally took the van
in and they replaced the SHIFT CONTROL SOLENOID
VALVE ASSEMBLY. The van drives great, now ! It even seems to have more power, especially on hills. I encourage all of you who posted with these same symptoms to have it checked out. I thought I was being too picky, complaining about the shifting, but I'm so glad I didn't ignore it any longer.
-------------------------------------------

Is this an easy fix or the dealership need to open the transmission? I have read couple of posts when there was transmission work done, more problems appear.

richrf · February 2000

First, for the record, I have had _every_ problem that I have written about. Most recently, I had a re-occurrence of the "fuel boilover" problem. The weather in Chicago warmed up a but (it is over 40 degrees) and it problem resurfaced itself immediately.

I would like to know if anyone else has experienced this problem recently when the weather warmed up and have they received any new information from their dealership concerning any possible fix. I am preparing to bring the car in again and am trying to document the problem so that I can use the lemon laws.

Thanks,

Rich

reddogs · February 2000

I dont think anyone belives you anymore, I dont care either way, but like the little boy who cried wolf after a while they didnt believe him even when it was true......sorry...:0(

jmoy3 · February 2000

I live in the northeast and the fuel boil only happened twice last year. This year nothing. Probably because last year I always used 87 from Sunoco and this year I use 87 or 93 from Exxon (depending which state I am in).

The first time happened when car had about 100 miles and came with a full tank of gas from the dealer (no charge). The outside weather was about 35 degrees. Parked the car and went shopping for about 20 minutes. When I came out, it had just rained and outside was at least 40 degrees. It took 2-3 tries (5 seconds intervals) to start the car.

The second time happened when the car (1500 miles) was parked on street for 3 days. While the car was parked, it snowed and rained. On the 4th day, the weather was at least 40 degrees and the car was still wet from the rain. It took 2-3 tries (5-7 seconds intervals) to start the car.

FYI: I now have about 5800 miles since I bought the car in October 99'

isellhondas · February 2000

I think you are right about the struts. They never seem to go bad even on Hondas with 200,000 miles on them. The double wishbone system does make a difference.

Also, I think richrf and Urchin would get along well. They could wring hands together and compare horror stories of their TERRIBLE Hondas. Kind of like a pity party?

rbudn83510 · February 2000

are these accord v6 transmission problems related to just the 2000 or is it to 1999's as well?

spokane · February 2000

Jmoy3, I don't have the shop manual for your V6 transmission but, on many Honda transmissions, the Shift Control Solenoid Valve assembly is very simple to replace. The assembly consists of two small solenoids mounted on a common base which is bolted to the outside of the transmission. Replacement would require no more than 15 minutes. For a symptom of "erratic 1-2 upshift", the Honda shop manual (4-cylinder) specifically lists "Shift Control Valve 'A' defective" as a probable cause. This no guarantee, of course, but if the hydraulic controls on your transmission are like those of some 4-cyl Hondas, this component certainly is a suspect. Let us know what you find out, please.

jmoy3 · February 2000

I work very long hours from Monday to Friday and my dealer is about 1 hour away. The shop only opens from Monday to Friday. I wish they would open on the weekends but they don't, UGH!

For now, I feel it is not a safety problem but will schedule an appointment in a month or two.

I will update all whenever I bring the car to the dealer.

pat455 · February 2000

If you can take the time to look through this entire topic, and check the links that are provided to some other topics in Town Hall, I think you will see that the problem was limited to just a few months of production. But don't rely on my memory, check it out for yourself.

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

acmeroadrunnr · February 2000

Norm states;
"still talking about Accords..., then acmeroadrunner's post must be in code. {%^)"

Norm,
Since other posters seem to agree with my statements about poor little richie and his pen pals, I guess you would have to say we're all reading the same "code" here. Wouldn't you.

richrf · February 2000

Dear moderator:

I took some time to review the user agreement for Edmunds. I found this statement in the agreement that everyone on this board agreed to before signing on.

"I agree to disagree in a civil manner should I take issue with the statements of another Town Hall participant or any Edmunds.com, Inc. Editor or content contributor. I understand that civility and respect underlie the success of a group discussion such as the Town Hall."

If you review many of the messages on this board in the last few days, there have been a large number of messages that have no information contained in them other than personal attacks and other uncivil comments. While I realize that these people are just plain immature, I do not want other members of this forum to be frightened away from voicing their own comments by the small handful of members who cannot conduct themselves in a mature manner.

I therefore would like to request that you bar all users who cannot discuss issues in a civil manner and who resort to plain, orderinary, and uninformative ad hominem attacks.

Thank you for your assistance in this matter.

Rich

bmoolenaar · February 2000

I believe the "shudder" and the "reverse clunk" were limited to small percentage of 2000 V6 Auto Accords built before Jan 1, 00. Anybody have the actual data from Honda?

Honda Accord problems

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