Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

pjksr · March 2002

3M has free shipping at their car-care store:

http://www.3m.com/US/auto_marine_aero/aad/

Click "Car Care Store"

mschukar · March 2002

I'm getting ready to order some Klasse All in One and was thinking about ordering some polishing cloths as well. Any recommendations? Or should I just go down to Target and buy some 100% cotton towels?

Thanks
-Murray

bretfraz · March 2002

Microfibers rule. Its the only thing I use to polish my car with. I only use terry towels for some product application but I have microfiber applicators too. Mostly I use cotton terry for cleaning dirty parts like door jambs and underhood.

mjday1972 · March 2002

This may be a repeat and I apologize if it is. I recently purchased a black car (after owning two in the past, I swore I'd never do it again - oh well) and I was wondering if there are any over the counter waxes/polishes/whatever that is really good at eliminiating swirl marks. I'm interested in hearing some opinions.

rs_petty · March 2002

First try hard to not get the swirl marks. Don't use sponges or dime store polyester brushes and stay away from automatic car washes. Use a good cotton chenille or lambswool mit. The best tip I ever got was to rinse your mit well. Use 2 buckets, one with soap and one clear water - never put your mit in the soapy water until you've rinsed it out. Try it and look at all the dirt in the rinse water. That dirt is what causes the swirls. Wash top down and I use a separate mit for below the beltline where most of the real gritty dirt and brake dust is deposited. Minimizing the swirls is half the battle. There are two methods to deal with swirls. Fill them in with a glaze or polish them out. The first is what happens when most people think they are doing the second. A good example is 3M Imperial Hand Glaze. The second, you probably won't do by hand unless you have several days (and the energy) to polish by hand. It really takes the combination of good technique, a buffer, and the right polish and foam bonnets. Not my choice for an everyday driver unless you are restoring the finish to an older car. For most cars my choice would be a good glaze/polish (3M, P21, 1Grand, Malms, Meguiars, Mothers) every 3 months and more frequent waxing with a good carnuba wax. The waxtest site had good results with P21 products, but I haven't used it yet - on my list. I've been happy with Malm's but my truck is silver. I've also used a boar's hair brush almost exclusively for the last 2 years and have far fewer swirl marks than anything else I've used. I'm not sure that combination would work as well on black though.

specialm · March 2002

I like that idea of using a pre rinse bucket! So simple and I never even thought of doing it. Thanks. I'm sure your technique's will work just as well on black as it did your silver.

phaedrys · March 2002

As much as I would prefer to wash my car by hand, I am stuck in drought stricken New Jersey, where we are no longer allowed to do that. So I am stuck with going to a car wash. I never really minded before, but I just picked up my first new car (2002 VW GTI) last night, and I know I'll need to wash and wax it soon. Does anyone know where I can find a "touchless" car wash in South Jersey? What accessories do I need to keep my car looking as good as it did last night when I picked it up? ;-)

protege_fan · March 2002

Where I live, we aren't allowed to wash on the street, so what I do is go to a place that uses those power nozzles. However, instead of using their "foaming brush" I take in my own wash mitt with me and scrub with that. I'm also careful that I don't get too close with the power nozzle.

I took my car thru one of those touchless washes once this winter. Won't do it again. It did a terrible job and who knows what is being sprayed on your car!

My 2 cents only.

bretfraz · March 2002

I'm in suburban Atlanta and we've been under drought conditions since 1998. My county has been under a water restriction for almost three years. Each county has its own regulations regarding water restriction.

The water restriction reglations do not apply to businesses that require it, like car washes. So I take my car to the local coin-op for its regular bath. Been doing this on and off for almost 9 years.

Just take your usual car washing tools and lots of quarters. Find a good car wash that has room to work and is clean. Just use the "rinse" selection and stay away from the other stuff. Save the waxing and polishing for when you get home.

It's a bit of a pain but it works for me just fine.

protege_fan · March 2002

Up here, most of the coin-op places don't allow you to take in your own bucket and wash tools. The place I go to uses a timed system and they don't mind you using your own tools.

mrdetailer · March 2002

Quite frankly, I use a lot less water when I wash at home. I have a nozzle that shuts off. I don't have it on unless I am hosing down the vehicle.

Droughts must be relative. It's hard to image how Ya'all in the East can even have droughts with all your green trees.

adc100 · March 2002

When there are well drillers in the neighborhood drilling deeper wells at 10 grand a pop it doesn't take long to realize it's real.

Later,
Al

mschukar · March 2002

Quite frankly, I use a lot less water when I wash at home

I was under the impression that some car washes recirculate and filter the water so they don't use nearly as much.

-Murray

valleyguy · March 2002

Here's a rather exhaustive site with instructions to use Klasse. I followed it and was very successful and pleased with the results. The stuff is awesome, easily beats any other wax.

http://www.properautocare.com/klasapguid.html

This site also reviews swirl marks.

cieszynski · March 2002

While surfing the web I came across this site (www.autopolish.net/ULTRA-Product.htm) and their GLARE Plus Paint Sealant. "Eliminates waxing forever, no renewals, protection up to 5 year warranty." Anyone used this product or ever heard of it???? I'll be taking delivery of a new Licoln LSE, BLACK, and want to get it protected as soon as possible. What's the best out there for BLACK paint???? Have heard wonders about Zaino.

adc100 · March 2002

Don't let the stealer wash it. Tell him in writing you will not take delivery of it if its washed.

I'd be leary of the product.

Check this site.

http://www.autopia-carport.com./ForumIndex.htm

jster · March 2002

According to what I have read, a typical coin-op car wash uses approximately 3-6 gallons of water per minute, vs. washing with the hose at home which uses approximately 10 gallons per minute.

The coin-op seems to use more water because the pressure is higher, but in fact it uses less than home washing, on average. That is why some areas with water restrictions will allow coin-ops to operate, but will restrict washing the car at home.

Water recycling at coin-ops: Coin-ops in much of the country don't recycle water--they are connected to the sanitary sewer or else use dry wells.

In some areas however, water reclamation systems have been required for some time for any new car washes opening up (particularly in the South and Southwest). Drive-thrus are another matter--most have water reclamation systems.

Even those must be hooked up to the sanitary sewer, however, because reclamation systems only capture about 70% of waste water used at a car wash.

Forcing car washes to retrofit is difficult--water reclamation systems cost between 50K to 100K, which is too much for many of the Mom-and-Pop type operators to afford.

Up here in Central NY we were on the border of drought warnings for the East Coast. Got 2 and a half inches of rain yesterday, and a few inches of snow the day before--Flash flood warnings in several areas--so I am hopeful that we will be able to avoid drought--so I can wash my car at home (among other reasons).

But if you are unfortunate enough to live in a drought stricken area--Bretfraz's suggestion for using the coin-op is a good one. I grab a bucket (a couple actually) and use them every couple of weeks during the winter (unless there's a break in the weather)--and it does a pretty good job for me.

adc100 · March 2002

.

mrdetailer · March 2002

is that I completely turn off the water when I am washing. I only use the 1.5 gallons in my wash bucket during that part of the wash. And, that will suffice for all 3 of my vehicles.

I don't turn on the hose until it is in position, and turn it off if I have to move over a pre-rinsed area. I'll bet I don't even use 10 gallons per car. I definitely use more water in the shower than washing my cars.

jster · March 2002

Way high? Maybe. Maybe not. I know with my garden hose it takes less than thirty seconds to fill a 3.5 gallon bucket.

Doing a little internet search I saw estimates of between 3 to 12 gallons per minute out of a garden hose. So unless you are only spending 2-3 minutes rinsing your car off (possible, I guess, though not for me)--odds are you are using more than 10 gallons--not including what's in the bucket(s).

I use a shut-off valve on my garden hose too...but I spend more than two minutes just rinsing the car off before I ever start washing it.

adc100 · March 2002

Possibly with 70 psi you could get that out of a 3/4" garden hose with no more than a 50' length and no restriction (nozzle) on the end. But the majority of time a nozzle with a spray is used to rinse off dirt. Nozzle's restrict flow and spray is considerably less. I would tend to think mrdetailer is probably right.

mod7 · March 2002

Any suggestions for a wax that can help protect my car from the bird droppings in our parking lot?

Thanks, MOD7

canc · March 2002

I think any wax will do a good job with bird droppings. I'd clean it up as soon as possible though, since it can destroy your paint with time.

joe166 · March 2002

I concur. Any wax or polymer will do the job about the same. I am unaware of any product that touts itself as better for bird droppings, but find whatever you think is easiest to apply and longest lasting, because the best product in the world doesn't do any good on your shelf in the garage or after it has worn off. The key is really to carefully rinse or wipe it off. Carefully because birds eat sand or other gritty substances to help their digestion and you can scratch the heck out of your paint by just wiping the stuff off without enough water or other lubricant. A wet paper towel or napkin from a fast food place is usually good enough to take it off (if you are VERY careful--like not rubbing, just lifting) so the acidic nature of the droppings don't have time to eat themselves into your paint. Sometimes if it is on too long, it will NEVER be the same. It can change the color os some paints and give you a stain you can never get off short of sanding and repainting and that is another expensive can of worms.

canc · March 2002

is to just park as far away of a McDonald's as you can at all times.

mrdetailer · April 2002

I keep some paper towels and a quick detailer to wipe off the bird whatever as soon as I see it. I say whatever, because some have sicked up on the car as well. My house has 4 Walnut trees and attracts them.

It is essential to get it off as quick as you find it. I've seen it etch paint. Thank heavens, not on mine.

mrdetailer · April 2002

Yes I usually lean to the mist side of the closeable nozzle on the first coat, and a little stronger for the rinse.

What water falls on the driveway generally goes into the downhill grass beside it. Gnerally not much.

Don't forget that a home wash is almost free. I can buy 2 years worth of car wash soap for the price of just one fancy wash.

tntitan · April 2002

I thought I read where one of the experienced detailers on this thread used a soft brush for washing lower panels on the car. I could not find it today and was wondering if it was an OXO brush. Are these safe for clearcoat like they say?

mrdetailer · April 2002

To recap, I have three vehicles that had the following treatments last Sept--October.

1. Subaru -- white -- one coat only of 3M Perfect It Show Car Wax.

2. Dodge -- Meguiars #26 wax, 3 coats

3. Mazda 3 coats of Perfect-It Show Car Wax.

We had a good rain last week and I found the following: The single coat of 3M was still beading, but the general appearance seemed flat and didn't bead as if newly applied. I had waxed the hood on the Dodge with Meguiars #26 just a week before the rain. It beaded fairly well there, but surprisingly not significantly less on the parts that were not re-waxed. Not quite ready to refinish at this time. The Mazda still beads great at this time.

We had a beautiful Saturday so I decided to work on the Subaru since it needed it the most.

Washed the car twice with Dawn. Then I stripped -- LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR -- the car surface with Klean Strip Surface Prep and Wax remover that I obtained from my Auto Paint Supply Store for $4.13 a quart.

Next, I did a clay bar treatment. It obviously gets easier and faster if done regularly. It only took about 45 minutes and I can still use the bar again. By then, I noticed that the surface was starting to shine more.

I then washed the car again. I was astonished when it beaded well at this stage, even though I had used nothing but Blue Dawn to wash it, and no wax or glaze had been put on the surface.

I applied a coat of 3M Imperial Hand Glaze with my wax buffer on the hood and roof, followed by a 3M Swirl Remover for light cars (a finer grit) on the entire surface. It was also applied by the buffer.

The last thing was a coat of 3M Perfect_It Show Car Wax paste applied by hand.

While the car looked good before, it really shines now. Clarity and depth definitely improved. In a week or 2 weather permitting I'm going to add a coat or 2 of Meguiars #26.

Conclusions for me.

1. Surface preparation is at least as important as the brand of wax used.

2. The value of using a claybar 2 times a year cannot be over estimated. It even stops swirl marks from forming because there is no grit. I've never used a machine without a clay bar first on my Dad's dark green Taurus, and his 1995 looked much better than his neighbor's 1998 Taurus of the same color. No swirl marks.

3. Glazing is indispensable. It removes small surface imperfections and adds depth to the shine. A very smooth surface doesn't allow pollutants to stick.

4. Combination cleaner/waxes are not as durable as doing a glaze, then waxing separately. It's actually less labor in the long run.

5. Paste waxes if applied by hand to a well prepared surface really go a long ways and are very economical in the long run. I have a can of Meguiars #26 that I have used for 3 years on 6 different cars -- over 35 separate applications.

6. In winter don't hesitate to use the automated car washes as long as wax is also applied. It only costs a dollar or 2 more. It seems to help strengthen the durability of the remaining wax. I also found that the more expensive exclusive car washes use better products than the gas station ones. Our cold winter simply wouldn't allow hand washing for at least 4 months this year.

4. Multiple coats of wax protect far better than a single one. My Mazda has 3 coats of 3M Perfect-It Show Car Wax. It has gone a full six winter months -- still looks great and still beads. The Subaru with only 1 coat of the same wax was getting flat by 5 months. 3 coats of Meguiars #26 lasted better than one coat of 3M.

5. For the peak of perfection the claybar-glaze should be done in spring and fall, with an additional coat of wax applied every 3 months between by hand. While the wax may still protect, I definitely noticed the higher reflection when I put a coat of #26 on the Dodge's hood. Nothing else was done.

As far as the products, it appears that 3M is more durable in winter, though it's beading is not as obvious. Last April I put on 3 coats of Meguiars and they still looked good into the next October -- November. On a well prepared surface both products are highly recommended.

I'll update you again on this in about a month when I redo the Mazda.

sandman46 · April 2002

where can I buy these products you use? I live in South Florida and there are Pep Boys in our town. Thanks for the info.

The Sandman

mrdetailer · April 2002

I am able to get most of my 3M products at my local auto paint supply store in my area. They are not found at Autozone, Checkers and Pep Boys in my area. I understand that this is not true in other regions. I have always found excellent supplies of Meguiars at any of the stores listed above.

If you have not done the multi step process before I would also recommend Meguiars Surface Prep #2 before glazing. It gets out light scratches without out being as harsh as rubbing compounds. After a good prep I only use glazes.

I've had to order the 3M Perfect-It Show Car Wax from the Internet at

http://www.3m.com/US/auto_marine_aero/index.jhtml

and then click on Online Store. I also really like their Surface Prep 70 and ordered a gallon of it last Thursday. For a while SHIPPING IS FREE. You can also order the Imperial Hand Glaze and Perfect-IT Foam Polishing Pad Glaze and Swirlmark Remover (The latter is very fine, and best for newer vehicles.) Make sure to choose dark for navy blues, hunter greens, reds and blacks. Use light for light to medium colors.

You might want to see if you can get a quart size of glazes as well. The quarts of glaze I bought at the paint store cost 16 for IHC, and 19 for the Perfect-IT. 3M glazes produce the richest finish to me.

Glazes should be applied lightly on the foam pad. So once the surface is well prepped, it won't use much.

bretfraz · April 2002

I get mine from NAPA auto parts. Most stores have a great selection.

You'll find some Meguiar's stuff at NAPA as well as Pep Boys. Was at a few AutoZone's and Advance auto parts recently and saw several Meguiar's items there too.

But 90% of my products I get online. Several regular posters as well as myself have provided links to the online retailers we use and trust. Do a little searching and you'll find them.

rs_petty · April 2002

A couple of questions, if you please re #1780. Why IHG instead of IMG - do you find it less/more abrasive? What did you use to lubricate the claybar? Thanks in advance - always looking for new techniques.

mrdetailer · April 2002

1. I got the advice about using the Imperial Hand Glaze with a buffer from a detailer. He had used it for years. I haven't tried IMG, but the Imperial Hand Glaze put on a slightly better finish than Meguiars #7 Show Car Glaze. From what I could tell the IHG was slightly more abrasive. I use the Perfect-It glazes more because they are the latest generation, and because it's like sanding furniture where a combination of a medium grit first, then using a finer one produces the best finish.

I've had a high shine since I started detailing, but this combination really pops.

2. On the clay bar, I have used a number of quick detailers. Meguiar's #34 Final Inspection, and Erazer quick detailers are my current faves. Water, or soap and water didn't work well for me.

Hope this helps.

koury · April 2002

Can anyone tell me the difference between 3M Imperial Hand Glaze (39007) and Perfect-It Swirlmark Remover (39009)? Is one more abrasive? I have a black car with many swirl marks.

Thanks!

jster · April 2002

Imperial Hand Glaze is only very slightly abrasive (if at all). It relies mostly on fillers (mineral oils) to hide swirl marks and imperfections, and give a "wet-look". It also has chemical cleaning properties (stoddard solvents)

Perfect-it SMR also contains fillers but is a bit more abrasive than Imperial Hand Glaze, I think. It definitely does more to get rid of swirls and marring.

rayfbaird · April 2002

I found by using the rubbing test that Imperial Hand Glaze has more grit than 3M Perfect-IT Foam Polishing Pad Glaze. Neither are as strong as Meguiar's #2 Surface Prep, or 3M Swirl Mark Remover.

The foam polishing pad glaze is the mildest I have ever seen, but together with Imperial Hand Glaze they produce a great finish.

rayfbaird · April 2002

First before you do anything, make sure you have stripped off any existing wax and then use a clay bar. This removes microscopic pollutants that have scratched finishes. I would try Meguiars Surface Prep #2 first on a small section. Any glaze will not remove swirls.

Personally, I don't go stronger than that, and make sure to use a good Carnauba since it fills in swirl marks.

koury · April 2002

Thanks for the tip, but let me get this straight. Are you saying to remove the wax (I assume using Dawn) and clay BEFORE using the 3M? Why?

koury · April 2002

Here's a question that's been asked many times, but I can't remember what folks have recommended. I made the decision yesterday to stop using a cotton hand towel to wash - too much of a pain keeping it folded, keeping the edges tucked in so they don't scratch, etc. etc. Has anyone found a good wash mit that doesn't scratch. I see some on the carcareonline website, but they don't look to be cotton.

Thanks in advance, and my apologies for asking this question again.

britton2 · April 2002

I use cotton chenile wash mitts that I buy at either Wal-Mart (Detailers Choice) or Auto Zone - (Viking) - these are 100% cotton and don't cost but 3 or 4 dollars - after using them 6 or 7 times I throw them away and buy another one- the only drawback I have found to these is that the cotton fibers will start to come out after a few months, that's why I just throw it away and buy a new one -

ywilson · April 2002

I would like to know more about it. I have used it for a number of years and like the way it makes my cars look. It also lasts awhile too. I don't know about a whole year but it does protect the paint well. I just put some on my Durango 2000 this weekend. I need to use good products because the paint is softer than on previous cars I have owned. It chips easily and I want to protect it as best as possible.

mrdetailer · April 2002

Due to the comments here, this weekend I went to my 3M supplier and compared products. They are listed from the most agressive to the finest.

3M Swirl Mark Remover
Imperial Hand Glaze
Imperial Machine Glaze and Foam Polishing Pad Glaze.

Since the finish is in good shape I NEVER use a swirl mark remove now. I just use glazes.

mrdetailer · April 2002

You use the clay bar before applying any glaze. See pollutants quite often are silica from dust and road pollution. They will scratch the clearcoat with very fine swirls. I don't think that you want to do that. I found out the hard way. Now I always clay bar before I glaze.

My father has a very dark green Taurus. Now, I always used the clay bar on this one, then glaze, and then wax. The machine didn't scratch it at all. This car has absolutely no swirl marks.

koury · April 2002

Makes sense about the clay - I clay my car twice per year. But do I need to Dawn the car as well to remove my existing wax? (Note - I use the banned product from the other discussion, so technically, it's not a wax).

westy5 · April 2002

I bought my car new in December of 2001, and waxed it with Meguiar's #26 shortly after the purchase. I am wanting to put another coat of wax on before the spring storms start up.

My questions is: "Since my paint is new and in great shape, I am not wanting to polish, clay, etc., but simply put on a good coat of wax. Do I need to strip (blue Dawn) off my existing 3 month old wax, or can I simply thoroughly wash the car with a non-stripping soap and apply a new coat of #26??"

Your comments are appreciated.

phankane · April 2002

Thanks you guys for many useful posts, I paid around 20 bucks on clay bar, wax ect.. after 2 hours of work. My car definitely looks better.
Still, I can't manage to remove oil marks on the bonnet completely. Clay bar remove mirror paint.

bretfraz · April 2002

Don't worry about it. Most of the original coat of #26 is gone. Sunlight, ozone, dirt, and car washes have eroded the wax by now. It's ready for another coat of wax.

And I highly recommend claying and polishing. Even brand new cars need it. The best detail jobs I've ever done have been on brand new cars and all needed some amount of polishing.

After you wash you car, lightly run your hand along the hood and roof. Feel any roughness? That is surface contaminents that need to be removed prior to waxing/polishing. Body clay removes them. A light polish followed by the #26 and your car will look and feel better than it did when it came from the dealer.

bretfraz · April 2002

Since Viking discontinued their excellent 100% cotton chenille mitts, the only one's I can find at retail are from NAPA. The nice thing about the NAPA mitts is that they come in two sizes; I like the smaller ones for washing wheels and tires.

You may want to hunt around the local independent auto parts stores to see if they have any 100% cotton chenille mitts in stock. I've been to numerous AutoZone's and Advance auto parts in three states and none had 100% cotton mitts available.

Good luck.

britton2 · April 2002

I was just in Auto Zone a few days ago and they still are carrying these wash mitts - I live in TN

Store Bought Waxes Part II (No Zaino Posts)

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