Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

corvette · August 12

I'm as skeptical as anybody, but to give Ford credit, in hindsight, the first year, low to medium equipped Mavericks were an absolute steal, if you could get one at MSRP or less.

stickguy · August 12

I like the concept as described. The simplied, optimized for EV design. And a lot less wiring!

benjaminh · August 13

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a65654346/ford-escape-lincoln-corsair-dead-after-2026/

I actually like the looks and price point of the Lincoln Corsair, although not enough to buy one. But that vehicle along with the Ford Escape are consigned to the ash heap of auto history with Ford's new EV roadmap for its huge Louisville factory.

Here's how Motor Trend looks at it.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ford-escape-lincoln-corsair-discontinued-for-new-cheap-ev

"This is, of course, a huge gamble as even Edmunds points out that the Ford Escape was the second best-selling SUV for Ford in 2024, which also has spent years systematically removing affordable cars and SUVs from its lineup; remember the Fiesta, Focus, or Fusion, or the EcoSport that slotted beneath the Escape? The only cheap thing Ford's introduced lately has been the compact Maverick small pickup, which is related to the Bronco Sport and Escape but has seen steady price increases over the years to near-midsize MSRPs."

Since its beginning Ford had a series of huge successes building affordable cars for the masses in huge quantities, including the Model T, the Model A, the Falcon, the Fairmont, the Taurus, and even the 1977-1978 T-bird, which sold more than 400,000 its first year iirc.

Maybe this EV truck will be a hit in 2028, but I feel like they should also have a popularly priced gas or hybrid vehicle. And given the unfortunate but seemingly with us for the foreseeable future tariff situation, something built in the US.

benjaminh · August 13

Although Tesla still arguably makes the best affordable EVs for sale in the US, for many people the brand is to be avoided because of the CEO. Just two years ago Tesla had plans to build one vast new factory after another around the world. But now it appears that plans for Tesla factories for Mexico, India, and other places have been postponed indefinitely. With Tesla sales down in the US, Europe, and China it seems like Tesla's goal to sell c. 10 million EVs annually worldwide by 2030 is unreachable. In 2023 Tesla sold 1.8 million worldwide, and the number was just slightly lower for 2024. With declining sales in key markets and the rise of low-cost Chinese EVs, my guess is that Tesla sales in 2025 will be around 1.5 million or so.

The Cybertruck is now a flop that's being compared with the Edsel by Forbes. Three years ago I think Ford was worried the Cybertruck would take a big bite out of their F-150's 600k+ annual sales, but that worry is over...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2025/04/03/elons-edsel-tesla-cybertruck-is-the-auto-industrys-biggest-flop-in-decades/

“It’s right up there with Edsel,” said Eric Noble, president of consultancy CARLAB and a professor at ArtCenter College of Design in Pasadena, California (Tesla design chief Franz von Holzhausen, who styled Cybertruck for Musk, is a graduate of its famed transportation design program). “It’s a huge swing and a huge miss.”

Judged solely on sales, Musk’s Cybertruck is actually doing a lot worse than Edsel, a name that’s become synonymous with a disastrous product misfire. Ford hoped to sell 200,000 Edsels a year when it hit the market in 1958, but managed just 63,000. Sales plunged in 1959 and the brand was dumped in 1960. Musk predicted that Cybertruck might see 250,000 annual sales. Tesla sold just under 40,000 in 2024, its first full year.

oldfarmer50 · August 13

benjaminh said:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a65654346/ford-escape-lincoln-corsair-dead-after-2026/

I actually like the looks and price point of the Lincoln Corsair, although not enough to buy one. But that vehicle along with the Ford Escape are consigned to the ash heap of auto history with Ford's new EV roadmap for its huge Louisville factory.

Here's how Motor Trend looks at it.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ford-escape-lincoln-corsair-discontinued-for-new-cheap-ev

"This is, of course, a huge gamble as even Edmunds points out that the Ford Escape was the second best-selling SUV for Ford in 2024, which also has spent years systematically removing affordable cars and SUVs from its lineup; remember the Fiesta, Focus, or Fusion, or the EcoSport that slotted beneath the Escape? The only cheap thing Ford's introduced lately has been the compact Maverick small pickup, which is related to the Bronco Sport and Escape but has seen steady price increases over the years to near-midsize MSRPs."

Since its beginning Ford had a series of huge successes building affordable cars for the masses in huge quantities, including the Model T, the Model A, the Falcon, the Fairmont, the Taurus, and even the 1977-1978 T-bird, which sold more than 400,000 its first year iirc.

Maybe this EV truck will be a hit in 2028, but I feel like they should also have a popularly priced gas or hybrid vehicle. And given the unfortunate but seemingly with us for the foreseeable future tariff situation, something built in the US.

It’s my sad opinion that Ford is on its way to extinction. Lacking any affordable small cars and relying on high ticket luxury and EV models that the average Joe can’t afford will sooner or later come back to bite them.

oldfarmer50 · August 13

benjaminh said:
Although Tesla still arguably makes the best affordable EVs for sale in the US, for many people the brand is to be avoided because of the CEO. Just two years ago Tesla had plans to build one vast new factory after another around the world. But now it appears that plans for Tesla factories for Mexico, India, and other places have been postponed indefinitely. With Tesla sales down in the US, Europe, and China it seems like Tesla's goal to sell c. 10 million EVs annually worldwide by 2030 is unreachable. In 2023 Tesla sold 1.8 million worldwide, and the number was just slightly lower for 2024. With declining sales in key markets and the rise of low-cost Chinese EVs, my guess is that Tesla sales in 2025 will be around 1.5 million or so.

The Cybertruck is now a flop that's being compared with the Edsel by Forbes. Three years ago I think Ford was worried the Cybertruck would take a big bite out of their F-150's 600k+ annual sales, but that worry is over...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2025/04/03/elons-edsel-tesla-cybertruck-is-the-auto-industrys-biggest-flop-in-decades/

“It’s right up there with Edsel,” said Eric Noble, president of consultancy CARLAB and a professor at ArtCenter College of Design in Pasadena, California (Tesla design chief Franz von Holzhausen, who styled Cybertruck for Musk, is a graduate of its famed transportation design program). “It’s a huge swing and a huge miss.”

Judged solely on sales, Musk’s Cybertruck is actually doing a lot worse than Edsel, a name that’s become synonymous with a disastrous product misfire. Ford hoped to sell 200,000 Edsels a year when it hit the market in 1958, but managed just 63,000. Sales plunged in 1959 and the brand was dumped in 1960. Musk predicted that Cybertruck might see 250,000 annual sales. Tesla sold just under 40,000 in 2024, its first full year.

Buying or not buying a brand because of personal animosity towards the CEO is foolish IMO. Would you not buy a Ford because Henry was an antisemite? Would you not buy a VW because the mustache guy helped design the Bug? Would you not buy a Toyota because of Pearl Harbor?

If I was going to hold a grudge based on CEOs it would be Mary Barra for all her bad decisions running GM.

fintail · August 13

benjaminh said:
Although Tesla still arguably makes the best affordable EVs for sale in the US, for many people the brand is to be avoided because of the CEO. Just two years ago Tesla had plans to build one vast new factory after another around the world. But now it appears that plans for Tesla factories for Mexico, India, and other places have been postponed indefinitely. With Tesla sales down in the US, Europe, and China it seems like Tesla's goal to sell c. 10 million EVs annually worldwide by 2030 is unreachable. In 2023 Tesla sold 1.8 million worldwide, and the number was just slightly lower for 2024. With declining sales in key markets and the rise of low-cost Chinese EVs, my guess is that Tesla sales in 2025 will be around 1.5 million or so.

The Cybertruck is now a flop that's being compared with the Edsel by Forbes. Three years ago I think Ford was worried the Cybertruck would take a big bite out of their F-150's 600k+ annual sales, but that worry is over...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2025/04/03/elons-edsel-tesla-cybertruck-is-the-auto-industrys-biggest-flop-in-decades/

“It’s right up there with Edsel,” said Eric Noble, president of consultancy CARLAB and a professor at ArtCenter College of Design in Pasadena, California (Tesla design chief Franz von Holzhausen, who styled Cybertruck for Musk, is a graduate of its famed transportation design program). “It’s a huge swing and a huge miss.”

Judged solely on sales, Musk’s Cybertruck is actually doing a lot worse than Edsel, a name that’s become synonymous with a disastrous product misfire. Ford hoped to sell 200,000 Edsels a year when it hit the market in 1958, but managed just 63,000. Sales plunged in 1959 and the brand was dumped in 1960. Musk predicted that Cybertruck might see 250,000 annual sales. Tesla sold just under 40,000 in 2024, its first full year.

I'd rather have an Edsel, more stylish and optimistic. I see a nice Edsel, I might smile. The closest a CT gets is a smirk. Probably better hauling things and on unpaved roads too

Musk especially damaged the brand in Europe, where some people know a thing or two about his type. I'd have no problem with people walking away from the brand because of his antics and his causes. HE's not a long-dead person who was connected to a brand, he's an active participant in our burgeoning idiotic kakistocracy. He was kaput with me after the "pedoguy" idiocy, more recent deplorability just seals it. Tesla isn't going to die or anything, but it is going to be weaker than before when new competition comes online.

benjaminh · August 13

Some analysts three years ago thought that by 2030 Tesla might be getting close to companies like VW, GM, Ford, Toyota, and Honda in terms of global sales, but at the moment that seems unlikely.

Tesla currently has five huge factories—two in China, two in the US, and one in Europe—with a total capacity to make almost 3 million vehicles a year. But it seems like Tesla will probably be below 2 million for the foreseeable future. Maybe Tesla's robotaxis or something else will work in the next few years?

As one analyst recently said...

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/07/24/elon-musk-tesla-loses-market-share-in-europe-for-sixth-straight-month.html

New AutoMotive’s Nelmes said Tesla faces “significant headwinds” with the loss of income from sales of U.S. regulatory credits.

“I have no doubt the company will survive — but it is looking more likely to be a niche brand in a bigger electric car market,” Nelmes said.

corvette · August 13

The thing with tax and regulatory credits is that they tend to be extremely arbitrary and not necessarily fair. I was a first time homebuyer shortly before the 2008 recession, after which there were significant incentives offered for first time homebuyers. I also bought a Government Motors vehicle shortly before they (temporarily) allowed loan interest on domestic vehicles to be deducted from income tax. Where were my bailouts?

qbrozen · August 13

@oldfarmer50 said:
It’s my sad opinion that Ford is on its way to extinction. Lacking any affordable small cars and relying on high ticket luxury and EV models that the average Joe can’t afford will sooner or later come back to bite them.

Nah. If it really came down to it, the brand could survive on truck/commercial sales alone.

benjaminh · August 14

I thought Tesla had projected sales of 10 million a year by 2030, but actually Tesla had suggested a goal of 20 million by 2030, which they repeated for a while. Right now something closer to 2 million seems more likely, which means Tesla will get to just 10% of the stated goal. "Full self driving" was also promised back in 2020 as being just around the corner. Then there's the 40k Cybertruck that was 80k, etc. Tesla cars are still impressive, but there's a pattern of over promising. Of course Ford, GM, and others have also over promised.

https://insideevs.com/news/539439/tesla-20m-cars-year-2030/

"By 2030, we are aiming to sell 20 million electric vehicles per year."

https://insideevs.com/news/539439/tesla-20m-cars-year-2030/

"Tesla has also dropped one of its most ambitious targets this week. For the past few years, Elon Musk has proudly claimed that by 2030, his company will ship more than 20 million cars annually – that's more than Toyota manages today. However, after making the claim in the 2021 and 2022 annual impact reports, the automaker dropped the wording in its latest edition."

Read More: https://www.jalopnik.com/tesla-backs-off-goal-of-building-20-million-cars-a-year-1851498607/

tjc78 · August 14

qbrozen said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

It’s my sad opinion that Ford is on its way to extinction. Lacking any affordable small cars and relying on high ticket luxury and EV models that the average Joe can’t afford will sooner or later come back to bite them.

Nah. If it really came down to it, the brand could survive on truck/commercial sales alone.

Exactly - nearly 1M units between the F150 and Explorer alone. That's almost half of their total sales units in the US.

au1994 · August 14

tjc78 said:

qbrozen said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

It’s my sad opinion that Ford is on its way to extinction. Lacking any affordable small cars and relying on high ticket luxury and EV models that the average Joe can’t afford will sooner or later come back to bite them.

Nah. If it really came down to it, the brand could survive on truck/commercial sales alone.

Exactly - nearly 1M units between the F150 and Explorer alone. That's almost half of their total sales units in the US.

I think we are on pace to buy about 45 F150’s this year. Only 5 Explorers but did 10-15 last year, plus an Expedition.

XL spec on the trucks but we do get a few V8’s depending on the application and a few crew cabs vs reg cabs. I know what I am paying and they are definitely making the $ on volume!

jmonroe1 · August 14

au1994 said:

tjc78 said:

qbrozen said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

It’s my sad opinion that Ford is on its way to extinction. Lacking any affordable small cars and relying on high ticket luxury and EV models that the average Joe can’t afford will sooner or later come back to bite them.

Nah. If it really came down to it, the brand could survive on truck/commercial sales alone.

Exactly - nearly 1M units between the F150 and Explorer alone. That's almost half of their total sales units in the US.

I think we are on pace to buy about 45 F150’s this year. Only 5 Explorers but did 10-15 last year, plus an Expedition.

XL spec on the trucks but we do get a few V8’s depending on the application and a few crew cabs vs reg cabs. I know what I am paying and they are definitely making the $ on volume!
————————————————
That otta take first place away from @breld.

jmonroe

greg1288 · August 14

fintail said:

benjaminh said:
Although Tesla still arguably makes the best affordable EVs for sale in the US, for many people the brand is to be avoided because of the CEO. Just two years ago Tesla had plans to build one vast new factory after another around the world. But now it appears that plans for Tesla factories for Mexico, India, and other places have been postponed indefinitely. With Tesla sales down in the US, Europe, and China it seems like Tesla's goal to sell c. 10 million EVs annually worldwide by 2030 is unreachable. In 2023 Tesla sold 1.8 million worldwide, and the number was just slightly lower for 2024. With declining sales in key markets and the rise of low-cost Chinese EVs, my guess is that Tesla sales in 2025 will be around 1.5 million or so.

The Cybertruck is now a flop that's being compared with the Edsel by Forbes. Three years ago I think Ford was worried the Cybertruck would take a big bite out of their F-150's 600k+ annual sales, but that worry is over...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2025/04/03/elons-edsel-tesla-cybertruck-is-the-auto-industrys-biggest-flop-in-decades/

“It’s right up there with Edsel,” said Eric Noble, president of consultancy CARLAB and a professor at ArtCenter College of Design in Pasadena, California (Tesla design chief Franz von Holzhausen, who styled Cybertruck for Musk, is a graduate of its famed transportation design program). “It’s a huge swing and a huge miss.”

Judged solely on sales, Musk’s Cybertruck is actually doing a lot worse than Edsel, a name that’s become synonymous with a disastrous product misfire. Ford hoped to sell 200,000 Edsels a year when it hit the market in 1958, but managed just 63,000. Sales plunged in 1959 and the brand was dumped in 1960. Musk predicted that Cybertruck might see 250,000 annual sales. Tesla sold just under 40,000 in 2024, its first full year.
I'd rather have an Edsel, more stylish and optimistic. I see a nice Edsel, I might smile. The closest a CT gets is a smirk. Probably better hauling things and on unpaved roads too

Musk especially damaged the brand in Europe, where some people know a thing or two about his type. I'd have no problem with people walking away from the brand because of his antics and his causes. HE's not a long-dead person who was connected to a brand, he's an active participant in our burgeoning idiotic kakistocracy. He was kaput with me after the "pedoguy" idiocy, more recent deplorability just seals it. Tesla isn't going to die or anything, but it is going to be weaker than before when new competition comes online.

Tesla has the 10th largest market cap of all companies in the world; 4X greater than that of Toyota and generally over 20x greater than the other major vehicle manufacturers. Although he has recently lost a couple of billion dollars he is still by far the richest man in the world with $416B according to Forbes.

It seems he is doing something right although he probably should not have ventured so blindly head first into politics. He should have realized it might alienate a substantial number of his potential customers, but he acted like he didn't care which is his perogative. At least he is not a phony like many/most business and political people.

fintail · August 14

greg1288 said:

fintail said:

benjaminh said:
Although Tesla still arguably makes the best affordable EVs for sale in the US, for many people the brand is to be avoided because of the CEO. Just two years ago Tesla had plans to build one vast new factory after another around the world. But now it appears that plans for Tesla factories for Mexico, India, and other places have been postponed indefinitely. With Tesla sales down in the US, Europe, and China it seems like Tesla's goal to sell c. 10 million EVs annually worldwide by 2030 is unreachable. In 2023 Tesla sold 1.8 million worldwide, and the number was just slightly lower for 2024. With declining sales in key markets and the rise of low-cost Chinese EVs, my guess is that Tesla sales in 2025 will be around 1.5 million or so.

The Cybertruck is now a flop that's being compared with the Edsel by Forbes. Three years ago I think Ford was worried the Cybertruck would take a big bite out of their F-150's 600k+ annual sales, but that worry is over...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2025/04/03/elons-edsel-tesla-cybertruck-is-the-auto-industrys-biggest-flop-in-decades/

“It’s right up there with Edsel,” said Eric Noble, president of consultancy CARLAB and a professor at ArtCenter College of Design in Pasadena, California (Tesla design chief Franz von Holzhausen, who styled Cybertruck for Musk, is a graduate of its famed transportation design program). “It’s a huge swing and a huge miss.”

Judged solely on sales, Musk’s Cybertruck is actually doing a lot worse than Edsel, a name that’s become synonymous with a disastrous product misfire. Ford hoped to sell 200,000 Edsels a year when it hit the market in 1958, but managed just 63,000. Sales plunged in 1959 and the brand was dumped in 1960. Musk predicted that Cybertruck might see 250,000 annual sales. Tesla sold just under 40,000 in 2024, its first full year.
I'd rather have an Edsel, more stylish and optimistic. I see a nice Edsel, I might smile. The closest a CT gets is a smirk. Probably better hauling things and on unpaved roads too

Musk especially damaged the brand in Europe, where some people know a thing or two about his type. I'd have no problem with people walking away from the brand because of his antics and his causes. HE's not a long-dead person who was connected to a brand, he's an active participant in our burgeoning idiotic kakistocracy. He was kaput with me after the "pedoguy" idiocy, more recent deplorability just seals it. Tesla isn't going to die or anything, but it is going to be weaker than before when new competition comes online.

Tesla has the 10th largest market cap of all companies in the world; 4X greater than that of Toyota and generally over 20x greater than the other major vehicle manufacturers. Although he has recently lost a couple of billion dollars he is still by far the richest man in the world with $416B according to Forbes.

It seems he is doing something right although he probably should not have ventured so blindly head first into politics. He should have realized it might alienate a substantial number of his potential customers, but he acted like he didn't care which is his perogative. At least he is not a phony like many/most business and political people.

It's a meme stock. No fundamentals support that market cap.

Yes, it is his prerogative to show his true colors, and I am somehow glad he did. He's still plenty phony though, at least in terms of other lies.

tifighter · August 14

Alienating the customer base was one thing. But another unintended consequence was alienating many of the employees. I think the repercussions of that will continue to be felt for some time.

oldfarmer50 · August 14

corvette said:
The thing with tax and regulatory credits is that they tend to be extremely arbitrary and not necessarily fair. I was a first time homebuyer shortly before the 2008 recession, after which there were significant incentives offered for first time homebuyers. I also bought a Government Motors vehicle shortly before they (temporarily) allowed loan interest on domestic vehicles to be deducted from income tax. Where were my bailouts?

They were right next to my farm subsidies that I never got.😢

ab348 · August 14

greg1288 said:
He should have realized it might alienate a substantial number of his potential customers, but he acted like he didn't care which is his perogative. At least he is not a phony like many/most business and political people.

I was alienated long before he went into politics. Not a brand I would ever consider.

corvette · August 14

ab348 said:
I was alienated long before he went into politics. Not a brand I would ever consider.

I'm super intrigued by the cars themselves (charging network, self-driving which is, apparently, best in class; the simple, Scandinavian inspired interiors, etc.), but the ick factor just kills it for me.

benjaminh · August 15

I love my Michelin CrossClimate2 tires for my Acura TLX. 40,000 miles on them so far and they are great in dry weather, rain, and even heavy snow. My best guess is that they have another 20,000 miles of service left, which at my current rate of driving will be about two years, or maybe even just 18 months. Definitely thinking about Michelin again when the time comes, especially since Costco has such good prices on them. Costco prices basically let you get a premium tire for almost price of a regular tire. Anyway, the CrossClimate3 has just been introduced in Europe, and it even has a special variant that's more expensive called the CC3 Sport. This 12-minute video covers the new CrossClimate3 in the European version. The American version of the CC3 is expected to be introduced in the next few months I think. The CC2 was a big sales success for Michelin. One of the things that's good about the CC2 is that even when worn down to 5/32 it apparently performs almost as well as it does when new.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-Y4AIp2WFU

explorerx4 · August 15

Took I-90 to CTfrom OH last weekend.
Saw the most Tesla's on the highway I have ever seen. New York has a very robust charging network on that highway. Rest area's every 35 to 40 miles with multiple chargers at each location.

benjaminh · August 15

From my pov GM deserves some credit for building in their Korean factory the Chevy Trax (starting at $24k) and Buick Envista (starting at $26k). Seems like a lot of car for the money these days. But watching some videos about these vehicles, you can tell where they made some questionable choices in the engineering. The engine is a 3-cylinder turbo with a timing belt that goes into the oil for the engine. Ford used a wet timing belt in its 1 liter 3-cylinder ecoboost turbo starting a dozen years ago or so, and the results were bad. Some teeth from the rubber timing belts in the Ford engines with wet belts would eventually come off, getting into the engines and destroying them. Probably GM has solved that flaw by now, but according to the Car Care Nut when the belts needs to be changed at 100k or so, it's difficult and expensive. And as he goes under the car and finds that the muffler attachments are so flimsy that it easily wiggles, and a wire right near a tire is likely to fail, it doesn't seem like this is a car that's likely to last in the long run. A better bet for 24k for a long-lasting vehicle would be a Toyota Corolla LE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9qTe7LlNy8&t=1882s

tjc78 · August 15

My neighbor (at the shore) and I cornering the market on white Rams

oldfarmer50 · August 15

benjaminh said:
I love my Michelin CrossClimate2 tires for my Acura TLX. 40,000 miles on them so far and they are great in dry weather, rain, and even heavy snow. My best guess is that they have another 20,000 miles of service left, which at my current rate of driving will be about two years, or maybe even just 18 months. Definitely thinking about Michelin again when the time comes, especially since Costco has such good prices on them. Costco prices basically let you get a premium tire for almost price of a regular tire. Anyway, the CrossClimate3 has just been introduced in Europe, and it even has a special variant that's more expensive called the CC3 Sport. This 12-minute video covers the new CrossClimate3 in the European version. The American version of the CC3 is expected to be introduced in the next few months I think. The CC2 was a big sales success for Michelin. One of the things that's good about the CC2 is that even when worn down to 5/32 it apparently performs almost as well as it does when new.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-Y4AIp2WFU

I’ve got CC2 on two of our cars and they seem ok. Hard to test their limits on the cars on which they are installed but I like the idea of getting 60k miles out of them. How often do you rotate?

oldfarmer50 · August 15

tjc78 said:
My neighbor (at the shore) and I cornering the market on white Rams

Work trucks?

kyfdx · August 15

Ouch!

fintail · August 15

corvette said:

ab348 said:
I was alienated long before he went into politics. Not a brand I would ever consider.
I'm super intrigued by the cars themselves (charging network, self-driving which is, apparently, best in class; the simple, Scandinavian inspired interiors, etc.), but the ick factor just kills it for me.

Likewise, I was turned off before the current unpleasantness. I will give all the credit for Tesla furthering the EV, innovative tech etc - without it, the EV movement would be eons behind where it is today. However, if I wanted to go that route now, there are workable alternatives.

ab348 · August 15

benjaminh said:
From my pov GM deserves some credit for building in their Korean factory the Chevy Trax (starting at $24k) and Buick Envista (starting at $26k). Seems like a lot of car for the money these days. But watching some videos about these vehicles, you can tell where they made some questionable choices in the engineering. The engine is a 3-cylinder turbo with a timing belt that goes into the oil for the engine. Ford used a wet timing belt in its 1 liter 3-cylinder ecoboost turbo starting a dozen years ago or so, and the results were bad. Some teeth from the rubber timing belts in the Ford engines with wet belts would eventually come off, getting into the engines and destroying them. Probably GM has solved that flaw by now, but according to the Car Care Nut when the belts needs to be changed at 100k or so, it's difficult and expensive. And as he goes under the car and finds that the muffler attachments are so flimsy that it easily wiggles, and a wire right near a tire is likely to fail, it doesn't seem like this is a car that's likely to last in the long run. A better bet for 24k for a long-lasting vehicle would be a Toyota Corolla LE.

Yeah, but you're in a penalty box Corolla sedan forever. If you need to be so worried about cost, buy a good used higher-end model.

The Car Care Nut is not someone I care to follow, both for his delivery on-camera which is really annoying, and some of his opinions, which seem grounded in pre-existing biases.

benjaminh · August 15

oldfarmer50 said:
How often do you rotate?

I rotate every oil change, which is about every 6k-9k miles. Wear seems even so far. Tread depth below.

Michaell · August 15

benjaminh said:

oldfarmer50 said:
I rotate every oil change, which is about every 6k-9k miles. Wear seems even so far. Tread depth c. 7/32nds.

I've been rotating mine, on average, about every 5000 miles. I've got about 24,000 miles on them at the moment and are still at 7-8MM tread depth.

jmonroe1 · August 15

About this tire wear discussion…the best I’ve ever gotten out of a set of tires was about 42K miles and that was from Bridgestones on my ‘95 Bonneville in the early 2000s.

If someone could show me how to get 60K miles out of a set of tires, I’d kiss them on the lips. And don’t respond to this by saying, “I could but I won’t”.

jmonroe

benjaminh · August 15

The following are some tires that supposedly might last as long as 80,000 miles....But for you maybe 60k?

Michelin Defender 2

Bridgestone Turanza Everdrive

Pirelli Persist P4 AS

Goodyear Assurance MaxLife

tjc78 · August 15

kyfdx said:
Ouch!

I know, right?

tjc78 · August 15

jmonroe1 said:
About this tire wear discussion…the best I’ve ever gotten out of a set of tires was about 42K miles and that was from Bridgestones on my ‘95 Bonneville in the early 2000s.

If someone could show me how to get 60K miles out of a set of tires, I’d kiss them on the lips. And don’t respond to this by saying, “I could but I won’t”.

jmonroe

The Michelin Symmetry that I had on the 2004 Grand Marquis were installed at 50K by my Grandfather and when I sold the car it had 102K. Those tires easily had 10-15K of life left. They were rotated regularly.

The OEM Michelins (They may have been Energy MX something or other) were still legal when replaced at 50K but the Symmetry wore better.

stickguy · August 15

one of those Rams should be getting a ticket for blocking the sidewalk!

benjaminh · August 15

This tire guy says that although Michelins are often more expensive to buy than most other tires, the cost per mile is usually equal or lower because they last so long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3yra3_39OA

imidazol97 · August 15

I've got defender 2 tires on both of mine. Little stiffer than I'd like, but great handling feel.

I got into 90000 miles on Michelins, even had a little strip of steel wire on one showing.

fintail · August 15

I remember tires were fun on my E55 AMG with staggered wheels. I only ran PS2s on it - from all accounts if you get to 20K miles and have more than racing slicks you're doing well.

breld · August 15

Finalized the wife’s punch today…

stickguy · August 15

do you have a VIP parking spot and entrance at the DMV office?

roadburner · August 15

fintail said:
I remember tires were fun on my E55 AMG with staggered wheels. I only ran PS2s on it - from all accounts if you get to 20K miles and have more than racing slicks you're doing well.

On the C43 the staggered ContiSportContact 5 SSRs last around 14k miles on the front and 23k miles on the rear.

Michaell · August 15

stickguy said:
do you have a VIP parking spot and entrance at the DMV office?

Are you kidding? He has a dedicated agent on call…

roadburner · August 15

So today I was sitting at a light in the C43 waiting to drive it though one of my favorite on-ramps: a 90 degree left from the light followed by a left sweeper and ending with an increasing radius right leading on to the interstate. There are two lanes leading onto the ramp and I was at the front of the left lane. I soon sawa Tesla stop behind me while a new E53 pulled beside me. I thought that we all would have a bit of a play-as the Brits put it- but when the light turned green I took the left and began accelerating towards the merge lane. I merged on to the interstate and then checked my mirrors- neither car had made it past past the second left. Rats.
Later, when I was exiting the interstate a new 911 pulled in front of me and then sped up quite a bit, but when the exit ramp tightened up he hit the brakes, forcing me to do the same.
Poseur.

oldfarmer50 · August 16

breld said:
Finalized the wife’s punch today…

Very nice.👍

tjc78 · August 16

@stickguy said:
one of those Rams should be getting a ticket for blocking the sidewalk!

The joys of having a standard bed!

greg1288 · August 16

My niece who previously complained that she could not afford her approx $450 per mo. lease on a Nissan Rogue has now turned it in 6 months early on a 2025 Pathfinder for approx $650 per mo. I don't get it.
It looks pretty nice as well as the interior. I think it is an SV with cloth seats, sunroof and captain chair option and seems pretty well equipped. MSRP I think is mid $40K. According to her the salesman's selling point was that it had a V-6 and 9 speed Auto as opposed to the 4 cyl VC turbo and CVT in the Rogue. Those engines are prone to failure and Nissan has recalled over 400,000 of them.

She says she likes it very much although she will probably find out it will get 7 or 8 less Mpg compared to the Rogue so with the increase cost of gas she will probably be paying close to $300 a month more. It won't take long before she starts complaining she cannot afford it.

jmonroe1 · August 16

Michaell said:

stickguy said:
do you have a VIP parking spot and entrance at the DMV office?
Are you kidding? He has a dedicated agent on call…

————————————————
Does he also have somebody who sets the over/under line for when he’ll show up again at the DMV?

jmonroe

jmonroe1 · August 16

greg1288 said:
My niece who previously complained that she could not afford her approx $450 per mo. lease on a Nissan Rogue has now turned it in 6 months early on a 2025 Pathfinder for approx $650 per mo. I don't get it.
It looks pretty nice as well as the interior. I think it is an SV with cloth seats, sunroof and captain chair option and seems pretty well equipped. MSRP I think is mid $40K. According to her the salesman's selling point was that it had a V-6 and 9 speed Auto as opposed to the 4 cyl VC turbo and CVT in the Rogue. Those engines are prone to failure and Nissan has recalled over 400,000 of them.

She says she likes it very much although she will probably find out it will get 7 or 8 less Mpg compared to the Rogue so with the increase cost of gas she will probably be paying close to $300 a month more. It won't take long before she starts complaining she cannot afford it.

————————————————
The reason you don’t get it is you went to school before they taught “new math” and you don’t believe everything thing a car salesman tells you.

jmonroe

benjaminh · August 16

greg1288 said:
My niece who previously complained that she could not afford her approx $450 per mo. lease on a Nissan Rogue has now turned it in 6 months early on a 2025 Pathfinder for approx $650 per mo. I don't get it...

yikes.

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

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