Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

roadburner · September 17

A friend of mine was building a house and he asked an "expert" at a home theater store how much it would cost to run speaker cables and HDMI cables to a home theater room and to a family room before the sheetrock was installed. The quote? $10,000.

oldfarmer50 · September 17

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

benjaminh said:
About much does it cost to get an EV charger installed in a garage?
For me, $10,000+.
How far is the garage from the electric service?

I’d have to install a new panel and upgrade my service to 200 amps with additional lines out to the street.

jmonroe1 · September 17

clm8 said:

benjaminh said:
About much does it cost to get an EV charger installed in a garage?
I paid $300 including labor, but I already had a line running to my detached garage that could carry the 30 amp load. They had to install a new breaker box in the garage and install the plug and additional wire.

————————————————
Why did you have to get a new breaker box if you already had 30 amp service to your detached garage. I’m going to be scared if you tell me what I think I’m going to hear.

jmonroe

corvette · September 17

roadburner said:
A friend of mine was building a house and he asked an "expert" at a home theater store how much it would cost to run speaker cables and HDMI cables to a home theater room and to a family room before the sheetrock was installed. The quote? $10,000.

This is why my dad and I ran all of the low voltage cable in the house my parents built in the late 1990s. That, and the fact that their electrician, although amazing with 120v/240v, didn't know much about computers, A/V systems, and other technology.

Their home theater has a minimally finished closet behind the TV, so you can literally walk behind all of the equipment to run and organize cables or install new things. It's quite handy. There are four pair of "house music" speakers with separate volume controls, all driven by a vintage RCA receiver. The primary source plugged into it is a Fire tablet.

corvette · September 17

$725 estimate to install my Level 2 charger with a new 60 amp breaker... I smashed that "approve" button very quickly. Should have done this a lot sooner!

nyccarguy · September 17

Found an 81K Avalon in Georgetown, IN @ Mike’s Car Store

https://www.mikescarstore.com/inventory/Used-2013-Toyota-Avalon/1365464

explorerx4 · September 17

Funny part of the ad for the Avalon.
"If you read this far, you either really want a vehicle or you really need to get out more. Go get yourself a Cheeseburger, milkshake, or something, Then give us a call or stop on by! I take Chick Fil A Spicy Chicken sandwich meal, 1 packet of mayo, 1 packet of mustard, Large Fries, 4 ketchup packets, and A Large Arnold Palmer no ice!"

stickguy · September 17

I still can't get my head around paying over $15K for a 13 YO family sedan with 90k on the clock. I really am a dinosaur I guess. Should probably just give up and keep the current cars until one of the 4 of us dies.

but I would shop at Mikes if I was in the area. Read through the listing, and down below the long list of equipment and some stuff about their inspection process, they had this buried in there

If you read this far, you either really want a vehicle or you really need to get out more. Go get yourself a Cheeseburger, milkshake, or something, Then give us a call or stop on by! I take Chick Fil A Spicy Chicken sandwich meal, 1 packet of mayo, 1 packet of mustard, Large Fries, 4 ketchup packets, and A Large Arnold Palmer no ice!

stickguy · September 17

so now we know at least 2 old guys would actually read all the way through on a car that neither one of us has any interest in buying!

xwesx · September 17

I have to admit that I did not read all the way down until after you guys posted. I pulled up the ad, saw black-on-black, and just couldn't do it.

corvette · September 17

nyccarguy said:
Found an 81K Avalon in Georgetown, IN @ Mike’s Car Store

https://www.mikescarstore.com/inventory/Used-2013-Toyota-Avalon/1365464

Looks like it may have some significant pitting on the left side of the front bumper, but I like the color. It's about 30 minutes away from me, LMK if you want me to go check it out this weekend... It's on the way to one of my favorite hiking spots, so it wouldn't be a burden at all.

nyccarguy · September 17

@corvette said:
Looks like it may have some significant pitting on the left side of the front bumper, but I like the color. It's about 30 minutes away from me, LMK if you want me to go check it out this weekend... It's on the way to one of my favorite hiking spots, so it wouldn't be a burden at all.

Ok. Let me take a look tomorrow AM and let you know. Thanks!

graphicguy · September 18

roadburner said:
A friend of mine was building a house and he asked an "expert" at a home theater store how much it would cost to run speaker cables and HDMI cables to a home theater room and to a family room before the sheetrock was installed. The quote? $10,000.

Let me bid. I'll do it for $5K + materials. Much easier to do before the sheetrock goes up, too.

I'll make sure he gets cabling for 5.2.4 set up, and HDMI cables for a Blu Ray, Set top box, Gaming console and one out to his projector or TV.

tjc78 · September 18

@graphicguy said:
Let me bid. I'll do it for $5K + materials. Much easier to do before the sheetrock goes up, too.

I'll make sure he gets cabling for 5.2.4 set up, and HDMI cables for a Blu Ray, Set top box, Gaming console and one out to his projector or TV.

I so wish I had the opportunity to wire my theater room to my specs. They put an outlet and HDMI for the projector but no speaker wiring

ab348 · September 18

Automotive News reporting this morning that Nissan will no longer import the Ariya EV into the USA.

In other news, reports of two flying cars (that really look more like oversized 4-rotor drones) crashed into each other at an event in China and one burned up. Back to the drawing board I guess.

corvette · September 18

ab348 said:
Automotive News reporting this morning that Nissan will no longer import the Ariya EV into the USA.

Well, the powers that be had better increase their buy bids on my RARE 2023 Ariya.

stickguy · September 18

Now you know why they made that rush offer to get you to buy it.

stickguy · September 18

My thought on flying cars was that most people can’t drive on the ground, so why expect them to be able to do it in the air (and pilots get a whole lot more training). Plus the implications to a fender bender are just a bit more significant.

jmonroe1 · September 18

xwesx said:
I have to admit that I did not read all the way down until after you guys posted. I pulled up the ad, saw black-on-black, and just couldn't do it.

————————————————
I tuned out when I saw where they do a 172 step inspection. I’d have to see that check list. They must be counting every PSI in all 4 tires and the spare.

jmonroe

tjc78 · September 18

jmonroe1 said:

xwesx said:
I have to admit that I did not read all the way down until after you guys posted. I pulled up the ad, saw black-on-black, and just couldn't do it.
————————————————
I tuned out when I saw where they do a 172 step inspection. I’d have to see that check list. They must be counting every PSI in all 4 tires and the spare.

jmonroe

They do those inspections the way you do oil change logs on Hyundais

ab348 · September 18

tjc78 said:

jmonroe1 said:

xwesx said:
I have to admit that I did not read all the way down until after you guys posted. I pulled up the ad, saw black-on-black, and just couldn't do it.
————————————————
I tuned out when I saw where they do a 172 step inspection. I’d have to see that check list. They must be counting every PSI in all 4 tires and the spare.

jmonroe
They do those inspections the way you do oil change logs on Hyundais

OUCH!!

jmonroe1 · September 18

tjc78 said:

jmonroe1 said:

xwesx said:
I have to admit that I did not read all the way down until after you guys posted. I pulled up the ad, saw black-on-black, and just couldn't do it.
————————————————
I tuned out when I saw where they do a 172 step inspection. I’d have to see that check list. They must be counting every PSI in all 4 tires and the spare.

jmonroe
They do those inspections the way you do oil change logs on Hyundais

————————————————
I should have known they did something like that.

jmonroe

andres3 · September 18

roadburner said:
A friend of mine was building a house and he asked an "expert" at a home theater store how much it would cost to run speaker cables and HDMI cables to a home theater room and to a family room before the sheetrock was installed. The quote? $10,000.

Sounds like the right number to make sure they don't get more than one "yes" per month, and that's perhaps all they need/want.

corvette · September 18

When quoting projects, there's always an "I'll do it, but I don't really want to" number.

roadburner · September 18

corvette said:
When quoting projects, there's always an "I'll do it, but I don't really want to" number.

I'd agree except this is a shop that advertises that they install home theaters. My guess was that all the cabling was ultra "high end" from one of several boutique brands that go for upwards of $150/foot.

clm8 · September 19

jmonroe1 said:

clm8 said:

benjaminh said:
About much does it cost to get an EV charger installed in a garage?
I paid $300 including labor, but I already had a line running to my detached garage that could carry the 30 amp load. They had to install a new breaker box in the garage and install the plug and additional wire.
————————————————
Why did you have to get a new breaker box if you already had 30 amp service to your detached garage. I’m going to be scared if you tell me what I think I’m going to hear.

jmonroe

The existing remote breaker box was full. It only had (I don’t remember how many slots 6?) and they were all used. It only powered lights and sockets, so there was not a big load. It’s an old garage, built in 1920, and the electrical was probably done in the 60’s . I had added a few lights and plugs when I moved in 10 years ago, but no issues with blown breakers. It’s been in for over a year, and no issues. He was a licensed, well respected electrican and made sure the existing wire could carry the load.

graphicguy · September 19

roadburner said:

corvette said:
When quoting projects, there's always an "I'll do it, but I don't really want to" number.
I'd agree except this is a shop that advertises that they install home theaters. My guess was that all the cabling was ultra "high end" from one of several boutique brands that go for upwards of $150/foot.

Yeah....that's a debate that's been raging for decades..."audiophile speaker wire". If you're running it inside walls, I use shielded, heavy insulated 12-14-16 gauge, depending on the light of the run. HDMI cables are another "audiophile debate". Same goes....connection should be shielded and secure.

"10101010101"s and signals either flow, or they don't. If you're getting any sort of hiss or noise, I always start with it being a cable issue. The thicker the gauge, the better. The better the connecting material, the better the build quality, the longer they'll last.

Paying more doesn't get you better sound. Corroded wiring introduces noise. If it's corroded, change it. I don't care what the brand. I know people who swear they can hear differences. I have 5 figures invested in my 2-channel system. I have used all sorts of wiring and cables. Have heard no difference. It's the old "if it costs more, it must sound better. I don't subscribe to that. All of my wiring and cables came from Amazon.

I use this stuff. However, tarrifs has caused it to double in price since I bought mine...

https://www.newegg.com/p/232-018V-001J6

tjc78 · September 19

Well said GG. I subscribe to the same methodology regarding cabling.

andres3 · September 19

But my 99.9999% purity copper wire with outperform your 99.99% peasant copper wire.

andres3 · September 19

benjaminh said:

nyccarguy said:
I've looked at a lot of cars in the $15K and under price point on and off over the last couple of years. What am I missing with this 2014 Toyota Avalon? I appreciate everyone's input. EDIT: I see 3 hits on the autocheck.
After getting burned with some one-owner used cars with maintenance records in the 1990s, I've become an advocate of the reality that in the long-run buying new is often better if it can be afforded. Better not just in terms of time and nerves, but in terms of money. Let me see if I can try to show that in this case...

Edmunds Cost to Own charts only go back to 2019, but a 2019 Avalon is projected to have maintenance and repair costs of about $8,000 over the next five years. If Edmunds did have a chart for a 2014 Avalon the number would probably be at least $10k or so. A 2014 Avalon was rated at 25 mpg combined, and so if driven about 12k a year gas costs over 5 years at 3.50 a gal would be about $8500.

So maintenance/repairs/gas for a 2014 Avalon might be around $16,500 or so for the next five years.

A 2025 Camry LE is thought by Edmunds to have maintenance and repair costs of about $3500 for the next five years. It gets 51 mpg, and so gas costs would be about $4000.

Maintenance/repairs/gas for a 2025 Camry would be around $7500 for the next five years.

A new Camry LE costs about $14k more than that 2014 Avalon, but if you subtract the known savings of $9k from owning a new Camry, the difference in price is really only about $5k over 5 years.

And that $5k, from my pov, might even be wiped out by the resale value of the two cars in 2030? Not sure.

A 2014 Avalon will not have much resale value when it has 200k or so in the year 2030. Maybe $4k or so? Might lose 10k in value by then? Idk. Might even be getting close to going to the junkyard, in which case the owner of the car would need to start all over again on a costly new car search.

But a 2025 Camry LE according to Edmunds will probably be worth something like $19k. It will lose 11k in value, but with luck and maintenance will still be a car with at least five good years years of life left.

Just my 2 cents lol.

A few flaws. Avalon > Camry
V6 > 4-cylinder which skews your gas mileage savings too.

If someone spends $10,000 on a 11 year old Toyota to get it to last 5 more years I suddenly don't feel so bad for buying a new $15K engine for the S4. If you did spend that much on an old Toyota, chances are you have a new engine and transmission already as part of those costs so the car would still be good for 5 more years after 5 more years.

jmonroe1 · September 19

clm8 said:

jmonroe1 said:

clm8 said:

benjaminh said:
About much does it cost to get an EV charger installed in a garage?
I paid $300 including labor, but I already had a line running to my detached garage that could carry the 30 amp load. They had to install a new breaker box in the garage and install the plug and additional wire.
————————————————
Why did you have to get a new breaker box if you already had 30 amp service to your detached garage. I’m going to be scared if you tell me what I think I’m going to hear.

jmonroe
The existing remote breaker box was full. It only had (I don’t remember how many slots 6?) and they were all used. It only powered lights and sockets, so there was not a big load. It’s an old garage, built in 1920, and the electrical was probably done in the 60’s . I had added a few lights and plugs when I moved in 10 years ago, but no issues with blown breakers. It’s been in for over a year, and no issues. He was a licensed, well respected electrican and made sure the existing wire could carry the load.

————————————————
That’s what I thought you were going to say.

Adding a box that can accommodate more breakers should not be done if the supply line to it is not large enough to handle the rating of the new panel, which I suspect it isn’t. More than likely the supply line to your garage is not large enough to carry the rating of the new panel. My guess would be it’s no larger than #8 gauge copper wire which is rated for up to a maximum of 40 AMPS with a maximum run length of 100 feet. I’ll assume you’re OK here, if and only if, nothing smaller than #8 gauge copper wire was used.

Now, having said that, since you can control the use of power in your garage, if you charge with no other loads at the same time other than a light or two, you should be OK. You probably won’t do this but I’d touch one of the individual supply wires to the panel to see if it gets warm while you’re using your charger. If it gets warm to the touch, your supply line to the panel is undersized and I would not trust that condition.

One more thing, if/and when you go to sell your house and the electrical inspector does his job right and sees a code violation (cable size, panel size, etc) he won’t pass the electrical inspection for your garage.

jmonroe

andres3 · September 19

28firefighter said:
Diminished value and loss of use reports came in just under $10k total. They’re offering less than $5k combined. I’d compromise but they don’t seem to be interested in that.

Is $10K the small claims limit in your State like it is in CA last I checked? I got a 90 year old half retired judge so I got way less than I should have in my DV claim, but still more than Mercury would ever offer.

andres3 · September 19

explorerx4 said:
I want loss of use because I had to buy a 911 to tide me over. HA HA.

I got "coached" before that saying you need 400 HP and AWD and luxury might be scoffed at by insurance adjusters for loss of use and the 100 HP eco box is sufficient in their eyes. However, if you say "I go up to the mountains and snow regularly and need AWD" you might get somewhere.

andres3 · September 19

explorerx4 said:
I want loss of use because I had to buy a 911 to tide me over. HA HA.

Oops repeated x2

greg1288 · September 19

Last week we had both cars serviced at their respective dealerships. My wife's XT5 is 5 years old with only 30K miles on it so brought it in and the Cadillac service writer recommended the scheduled oil/filter change, Trans flush, Coolant flush. carbon cleaning through the throttle body and brake fluid replacement. I agreed to everything except the brake fluid flush. The total with tax was around $1050 which was probably a few hundred more than it is worth. However being a certified vehicle with another year left on the power train warranty I was OK with the cost.

I brought the 2024 Crown to Toyota for an oil change which was overdue on time. I also needed a state inspection. The car has only 13,700K miles. I was pleasantly surprised when the service writer told me the service was covered by Toyota and I have one more free service left. The total cost was $10 for the safety inspection. The covered cost was listed as $131 which included oil and filter "Multipoint inspection" and tire rotation. Both cars are running and driving great and we are set for close to a year.

stickguy · September 19

Making a mental note not to post a picture of my box of spare speaker wire, most of which dates to the 80s or 90s. Some of undetermined gauge and not that was the fancy stuff.

breld · September 19

I got out to our local track this morning for an open lapping session. My neighbor who has the Lotus was going and I figured it was a good opportunity to actually get my BRZ on the track and really use it.

I paid to have an instructor with me to gain knowledge and confidence, and that was money well spent. It’s the same instructor who led the corporate event I attended about a month ago. At least now I feel fairly comfortable going out again on my own.

There is a Porsche Club of America event this weekend, so there were plenty of serious race-ready Porsches taking practice laps today. Should have taken more pictures…alas, all I got was one of my plain old Subaru!

roadburner · September 19

graphicguy said:

roadburner said:

corvette said:
When quoting projects, there's always an "I'll do it, but I don't really want to" number.
I'd agree except this is a shop that advertises that they install home theaters. My guess was that all the cabling was ultra "high end" from one of several boutique brands that go for upwards of $150/foot.
Yeah....that's a debate that's been raging for decades..."audiophile speaker wire". If you're running it inside walls, I use shielded, heavy insulated 12-14-16 gauge, depending on the light of the run. HDMI cables are another "audiophile debate". Same goes....connection should be shielded and secure.

"10101010101"s and signals either flow, or they don't. If you're getting any sort of hiss or noise, I always start with it being a cable issue. The thicker the gauge, the better. The better the connecting material, the better the build quality, the longer they'll last.

Paying more doesn't get you better sound. Corroded wiring introduces noise. If it's corroded, change it. I don't care what the brand. I know people who swear they can hear differences. I have 5 figures invested in my 2-channel system. I have used all sorts of wiring and cables. Have heard no difference. It's the old "if it costs more, it must sound better. I don't subscribe to that. All of my wiring and cables came from Amazon.

I use this stuff. However, tarrifs has caused it to double in price since I bought mine...

https://www.newegg.com/p/232-018V-001J6

I use Blue Jeans Cable speaker and HDMI exclusively in my main system. BJC doesn't make any claims about sonic superiority- they make their recommendations based on the length of the cable runs. I'll admit that I went a tad overboard on the RCA cables for the RCD-855 CD player- Discrete Technology interconnects. Oh yeah, a salesperson at Best Buy must have had to meet quota so she sold me a THX certified Monster TOSlink cable for $10.
Downstairs it's a mix of AR and BJC cables most leftover from when I converted the main HTS to 7.1

tjc78 · September 19

To be honest some of the best cables are Belden Coax and Canare RCAs. I have a few. They will last forever.

corvette · September 19

@roadburner - I don't think I've ever bought from them, but I love BJC... Back in the day, their response to a Monster Cable cease and desist began with "Dear Monster Lawyers..."

roadburner · September 19

tjc78 said:
To be honest some of the best cables are Belden Coax and Canare RCAs. I have a few. They will last forever.

BJC uses Belden cable and Canare RCAs on many of their cables and interconnects.

tjc78 · September 20

roadburner said:

tjc78 said:
To be honest some of the best cables are Belden Coax and Canare RCAs. I have a few. They will last forever.

BJC uses Belden cable and Canare RCAs on many of their cables and interconnects.

That may be where I got mine, or maybe EBay a long time ago

stickguy · September 20

going out to do some shopping this morning including a stop at BJs, which means will be right by the Subaru dealer. Maybe if I don't tell her we are doing it in advance I can stop at the dealer and convince the boss to actually get out of the car!.

clm8 · September 20

jmonroe1 said:

clm8 said:

jmonroe1 said:

clm8 said:

benjaminh said:
About much does it cost to get an EV charger installed in a garage?
I paid $300 including labor, but I already had a line running to my detached garage that could carry the 30 amp load. They had to install a new breaker box in the garage and install the plug and additional wire.
————————————————
Why did you have to get a new breaker box if you already had 30 amp service to your detached garage. I’m going to be scared if you tell me what I think I’m going to hear.

jmonroe
The existing remote breaker box was full. It only had (I don’t remember how many slots 6?) and they were all used. It only powered lights and sockets, so there was not a big load. It’s an old garage, built in 1920, and the electrical was probably done in the 60’s . I had added a few lights and plugs when I moved in 10 years ago, but no issues with blown breakers. It’s been in for over a year, and no issues. He was a licensed, well respected electrican and made sure the existing wire could carry the load.
————————————————
That’s what I thought you were going to say.

Adding a box that can accommodate more breakers should not be done if the supply line to it is not large enough to handle the rating of the new panel, which I suspect it isn’t. More than likely the supply line to your garage is not large enough to carry the rating of the new panel. My guess would be it’s no larger than #8 gauge copper wire which is rated for up to a maximum of 40 AMPS with a maximum run length of 100 feet. I’ll assume you’re OK here, if and only if, nothing smaller than #8 gauge copper wire was used.

Now, having said that, since you can control the use of power in your garage, if you charge with no other loads at the same time other than a light or two, you should be OK. You probably won’t do this but I’d touch one of the individual supply wires to the panel to see if it gets warm while you’re using your charger. If it gets warm to the touch, your supply line to the panel is undersized and I would not trust that condition.

One more thing, if/and when you go to sell your house and the electrical inspector does his job right and sees a code violation (cable size, panel size, etc) he won’t pass the electrical inspection for your garage.

jmonroe

I have a 30 amp breaker and my charger is setup to a max of 24 amps. I usually charge at night when nothing else is used, I’m not worried about, that’s just the way I do it. My car (Mach E) fully charges to the recommended level overnight as I usually charge when I reach 50% or so. My electrician was very clear that my wire would not support 40 amps.

Sorry, I wasn’t more specific earlier.

suydam · September 20

clm8 said:

jmonroe1 said:

clm8 said:

jmonroe1 said:

clm8 said:

benjaminh said:
About much does it cost to get an EV charger installed in a garage?
I paid $300 including labor, but I already had a line running to my detached garage that could carry the 30 amp load. They had to install a new breaker box in the garage and install the plug and additional wire.
————————————————
Why did you have to get a new breaker box if you already had 30 amp service to your detached garage. I’m going to be scared if you tell me what I think I’m going to hear.

jmonroe
The existing remote breaker box was full. It only had (I don’t remember how many slots 6?) and they were all used. It only powered lights and sockets, so there was not a big load. It’s an old garage, built in 1920, and the electrical was probably done in the 60’s . I had added a few lights and plugs when I moved in 10 years ago, but no issues with blown breakers. It’s been in for over a year, and no issues. He was a licensed, well respected electrican and made sure the existing wire could carry the load.
————————————————
That’s what I thought you were going to say.

Adding a box that can accommodate more breakers should not be done if the supply line to it is not large enough to handle the rating of the new panel, which I suspect it isn’t. More than likely the supply line to your garage is not large enough to carry the rating of the new panel. My guess would be it’s no larger than #8 gauge copper wire which is rated for up to a maximum of 40 AMPS with a maximum run length of 100 feet. I’ll assume you’re OK here, if and only if, nothing smaller than #8 gauge copper wire was used.

Now, having said that, since you can control the use of power in your garage, if you charge with no other loads at the same time other than a light or two, you should be OK. You probably won’t do this but I’d touch one of the individual supply wires to the panel to see if it gets warm while you’re using your charger. If it gets warm to the touch, your supply line to the panel is undersized and I would not trust that condition.

One more thing, if/and when you go to sell your house and the electrical inspector does his job right and sees a code violation (cable size, panel size, etc) he won’t pass the electrical inspection for your garage.

jmonroe
I have a 30 amp breaker and my charger is setup to a max of 24 amps. I usually charge at night when nothing else is used, I’m not worried about, that’s just the way I do it. My car (Mach E) fully charges to the recommended level overnight as I usually charge when I reach 50% or so. My electrician was very clear that my wire would not support 40 amps.

Sorry, I wasn’t more specific earlier.

That’s my setup as well.

nyccarguy · September 20

@stickguy

Didn’t you gave a Scion tC way back when?

stickguy · September 20

I did. I think the first one in my area. Definitely the first from that dealer. Did not have it all that long. Traded it in for my Accord.

nyccarguy · September 20

Thoughts? ‘16. Well under 100K miles. Same 2.5 from the Camry.

https://www.napolinissanct.com/commercial-used/Scion/2016-Scion-tC-176ded8fac181973ee880be6e603dc96.htm

stickguy · September 20

seems like a pretty good deal. a quick online search and most have more miles for more money. Powertrain is the same as the Camry. Not sure if that was a year with the engine issues (there are some with that series of 4 cylinder). Pretty well equipped, but surprised that even by 2016 still no backup camera. Not great visibility out back on those. I would consider replacing the head unit with one that had a camera and car play. Should be a pretty easy swap on one of these.

corvette · September 20

@nyccarguy - how could you resist the banner ad:

(also, 50% chance somebody traded that car in for an Altima or equivalent... that would give me pause.)

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