Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

graphicguy · October 14

suydam said:
We charge to 100% for a road trip, 80% around town.

KIA makes no mention of charging only to 80%. They do say to charge to 100% when the battery reaches a low of 20%....which is when I plug in. That said, I only plug in once a week. I usually give myself a cushion of between 50 to 75 miles of range left when I look for a charging station while I'm on the road. Pretty easy to find...Krogers, Meijers, some Shell stations, Walmart, etc.

driver100 · October 14

@oldfarmer50 Many think that a cell phone or IPad battery will last longer if kept charged at between 20 and 80%. Some have experimented and found there isn't much difference. No definitive answer.........

To everyone else regarding my comments about EVs. I wouldn't argue with anything said, I am just saying an EV isn't necessarily suitable for everyone, and that is one reason they should not be forced on people. If it suits you go for it. My younger brother just bought an IONIQ and he drove from Calgary to Vancouver....about 700 miles each way. He is a computer guy and he said he had to plan for charging stops very carefully, but it all worked out. I would imagine there aren't too many charging places on that trip. He was happy, I wouldn't want to do that much planning or have to think about planning charging stops, even if I only did that trip once or twice a year.
Of course, people buy what suits them and what they want....just saying I don't think it is the answer for everyone......and it will get even better in the future....I understand aluminum batteries could be much better than lithium for example.

oldfarmer50 · October 14

As long as we’re on the battery discussion, I’d like some information/opinions from those smarter than me.

I recently received a solicitation from a company that runs BESS systems (Battery Energy Storage) which connects to the power grid as backup during brownouts or outages. These consist of battery packs the size of a small tractor trailer.

This company is looking to lease a 100’X65’ piece of my land to install what looks like 4 of these batteries. For this they are willing to pay me between $25k and $100k per year for the next 25 years.

Of course where they propose to site this ugly thing would be in direct view of my house so normally I wouldn’t give it a second thought but I do have a corner of my property down the hill, out of sight that they could use.

All this is super preliminary and I’m doubtful our town would allow this in residential zones, to say nothing of opposition from my neighbors.

Anybody familiar with this technology, pitfalls, potential legal risks etc.?

graphicguy · October 14

@tjc78 ...I have some show bird friends who have a place in NYC and the Miami area in FL. They are in Miami currently and were going to stay there until Spring. Now, they are coming back to NYC after the storm is over to see what, if any damage they have to clean up.

Cruising during hurricane season is always a roll of the dice. That said, that's when you find the best fares. I've been on a ship during a hurricane. Ships are huge. It rocked the ship, but the Capt was adept at threading the needle through the worst part of it with little more than a few people getting sea sick.

BTW...did you mention the ship and cruise line you were on? Just curious.

Hoping you are safe and things (eventually) continue without a hitch.

imidazol97 · October 14

oldfarmer50 said:

corvette said:
@driver100 - it's generally recommended not to charge over 80-ish percent for everyday usage. It's fine to charge to 100% for a road trip, if you're expecting inclement weather, etc... Damage is done to lithium ion batteries when they stay close to full capacity for extended periods of time--e.g., someone has a five mile commute and recharges to 100% every evening.

That said, I would not target hitting a charging stop at 5% range remaining, since I prefer a greater margin of error, but I think any of the Teslas you mentioned would easily handle that roundtrip with one charging stop of 20-30 minutes.
That makes me think. My IPad has (I assume) has a lithium battery. After a full day of use it’s pretty well down in charge and I plug it in for the night to get it back to 100%. I also assume that it reaches full charge after a few hours but then stays plugged in at 100% for the rest of the night.

Am I damaging the battery by leaving it plugged in at 100% all night?

BTW I’ve drive EVs from Albany to Burlington (150 miles) and didn’t have any trouble. Of course I didn’t have to do any charging.

If I understand, it's the time spent at 100% that's a problem. My Android Samsung recommends charging to 80%, and it has settings to stop charging at 80 or up in 5 percent steps. My last android Samsung phone had the battery slightly swollen in thickness when I replaced it. Our phones also recommend not using fast charge.

But liOn batteries in power tools say store them fully charged.

Michaell · October 14

Where do you get the idea that BEVs are being "forced" on people? Yes, there were incentives to buy/lease an EV, but plenty of people chose not to avail themselves of those, and instead bought BMWs, MBs, Toyotas, Fords, etc.

I think ICE vehicles are going to be around for a long, long time.

qbrozen · October 14

@Michaell said:
Where do you get the idea that BEVs are being "forced" on people? Yes, there were incentives to buy/lease an EV, but plenty of people chose not to avail themselves of those, and instead bought BMWs, MBs, Toyotas, Fords, etc.

I think ICE vehicles are going to be around for a long, long time.

Probably residual thinking from when CAFE was threatening. We have a reprieve for now.

explorerx4 · October 14

I would call this being toward BEV's.
"California plans to ban the sale of new gasoline-powered passenger cars and trucks starting in 2035."

There is also a group of states that follows what Calfornia does when it comes to vehicle emissions standards.

Michaell · October 14

explorerx4 said:
I would call this being toward BEV's.
"California plans to ban the sale of new gasoline-powered passenger cars and trucks starting in 2035."

There is also a group of states that follows what Calfornia does when it comes to vehicle emissions standards.

Yeah, well, CA has been trying to legislate the car market for 30+ years, without much success (outside of emissions).

tjc78 · October 14

@graphicguy said:
@tjc78 ...I have some show bird friends who have a place in NYC and the Miami area in FL. They are in Miami currently and were going to stay there until Spring. Now, they are coming back to NYC after the storm is over to see what, if any damage they have to clean up.

Cruising during hurricane season is always a roll of the dice. That said, that's when you find the best fares. I've been on a ship during a hurricane. Ships are huge. It rocked the ship, but the Capt was adept at threading the needle through the worst part of it with little more than a few people getting sea sick.

BTW...did you mention the ship and cruise line you were on? Just curious.

Hoping you are safe and things (eventually) continue without a hitch.

Yep! This time of year can be a bit dicey for sure. You have to know the risk.

We are on Royal’s Symphony of the Seas.

It’s still cool but on the suite sun deck with a Bloody Mary in hand now… life could be worse (I could have to charge an electric car 😎😎)

tjc78 · October 14

Some pics … can’t wait for warmer weather tomorrow.

jmonroe1 · October 14

driver100 said:
@oldfarmer50 Many think that a cell phone or IPad battery will last longer if kept charged at between 20 and 80%. Some have experimented and found there isn't much difference. No definitive answer.........

To everyone else regarding my comments about EVs. I wouldn't argue with anything said, I am just saying an EV isn't necessarily suitable for everyone, and that is one reason they should not be forced on people. If it suits you go for it. My younger brother just bought an IONIQ and he drove from Calgary to Vancouver....about 700 miles each way. He is a computer guy and he said he had to plan for charging stops very carefully, but it all worked out. I would imagine there aren't too many charging places on that trip. He was happy, I wouldn't want to do that much planning or have to think about planning charging stops, even if I only did that trip once or twice a year.
Of course, people buy what suits them and what they want....just saying I don't think it is the answer for everyone......and it will get even better in the future....I understand aluminum batteries could be much better than lithium for example.

————————————————
Of course EVs aren’t for everyone and I’m not one of them, yet. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, “when I get in my car I don’t want to plan for any stops to charge. Not even one minute. When you can trip over charging stations like gas stations, that might be the day i buy an EV”. Plus, hiring an electrician to install a charger, could be very expensive by the time I get an EV.

jmonroe

tjc78 · October 14

@jmonroe1 said:
————————————————
Of course EVs aren’t for everyone and I’m not one of them, yet. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, “when I get in my car I don’t want to plan for any stops to charge. Not even one minute. When you can trip over charging stations like gas stations, that might be the day i buy an EV”. Plus, hiring an electrician to install a charger, could be very expensive by the time I get an EV.

jmonroe

Mr Bob Vila himself is gonna hire someone?!?!?

jmonroe1 · October 14

tjc78 said:

@jmonroe1 said:

————————————————

Of course EVs aren’t for everyone and I’m not one of them, yet. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, “when I get in my car I don’t want to plan for any stops to charge. Not even one minute. When you can trip over charging stations like gas stations, that might be the day i buy an EV”. Plus, hiring an electrician to install a charger, could be very expensive by the time I get an EV.

jmonroe

Mr Bob Vila himself is gonna hire someone?!?!?

————————————————
That’s just it. By the time I get an EV, I probably will have forgotten how to do that kind of work.

jmonroe

xwesx · October 14

nyccarguy said:
There is a reason we all aren't driving around in Panther cars with 350K miles on them.

Yeah, but it probably isn't a good one!

xwesx · October 14

oldfarmer50 said:
As long as we’re on the battery discussion, I’d like some information/opinions from those smarter than me.

I recently received a solicitation from a company that runs BESS systems (Battery Energy Storage) which connects to the power grid as backup during brownouts or outages. These consist of battery packs the size of a small tractor trailer.

This company is looking to lease a 100’X65’ piece of my land to install what looks like 4 of these batteries. For this they are willing to pay me between $25k and $100k per year for the next 25 years.

Of course where they propose to site this ugly thing would be in direct view of my house so normally I wouldn’t give it a second thought but I do have a corner of my property down the hill, out of sight that they could use.

All this is super preliminary and I’m doubtful our town would allow this in residential zones, to say nothing of opposition from my neighbors.

Anybody familiar with this technology, pitfalls, potential legal risks etc.?

Our electric cooperative installed one of these about twenty years ago. Not on my land or near me, but plugged into the grid. I tell you, literally overnight... we went from having regular, brief brown-outs (the type where you don't notice it except that it is long enough to reset all your appliance clocks and maybe computers)... like multiple per week, to basically having none. The only time the power goes out... well, it may be many hours or days before it comes back on! Our BESS was installed back before the days of modularity, so it takes up a rather large warehouse and has individual battery banks on racks.... REALLY big racks, with each individual battery capable of being swapped out by a technician. I think the system is capable of powering the grid for up to twenty minutes if there are supply interruptions from the generation plants.

As for risks... the type of batteries they use, I don't think there would be any significant risk of leakage, but there is a remote risk of a battery fire. If there *is* a battery fire, it is likely to burn fast and HOT, so make sure it isn't anywhere near your structures or significant vegetation, just to be sure. Otherwise, very innocuous. Certainly moreso than a cell tower, wind generator, or typical power substation, which is the other type of infrastructure common on private land leases.

I think the only real permanent modification to the land is the need for a concrete pad w/ fencing, and whatever road access required. And, if the lease were to terminate during your lifetime, that would just be an opportunity to build a nice garage atop it!

xwesx · October 14

tjc78 said:
Some pics … can’t wait for warmer weather tomorrow.

Aside from emissions, we've certainly come a LONG way since the days of Titanic!

oldfarmer50 · October 14

xwesx said:

oldfarmer50 said:
As long as we’re on the battery discussion, I’d like some information/opinions from those smarter than me.

I recently received a solicitation from a company that runs BESS systems (Battery Energy Storage) which connects to the power grid as backup during brownouts or outages. These consist of battery packs the size of a small tractor trailer.

This company is looking to lease a 100’X65’ piece of my land to install what looks like 4 of these batteries. For this they are willing to pay me between $25k and $100k per year for the next 25 years.

Of course where they propose to site this ugly thing would be in direct view of my house so normally I wouldn’t give it a second thought but I do have a corner of my property down the hill, out of sight that they could use.

All this is super preliminary and I’m doubtful our town would allow this in residential zones, to say nothing of opposition from my neighbors.

Anybody familiar with this technology, pitfalls, potential legal risks etc.?

Our electric cooperative installed one of these about twenty years ago. Not on my land or near me, but plugged into the grid. I tell you, literally overnight... we went from having regular, brief brown-outs (the type where you don't notice it except that it is long enough to reset all your appliance clocks and maybe computers)... like multiple per week, to basically having none. The only time the power goes out... well, it may be many hours or days before it comes back on! Our BESS was installed back before the days of modularity, so it takes up a rather large warehouse and has individual battery banks on racks.... REALLY big racks, with each individual battery capable of being swapped out by a technician. I think the system is capable of powering the grid for up to twenty minutes if there are supply interruptions from the generation plants.

As for risks... the type of batteries they use, I don't think there would be any significant risk of leakage, but there is a remote risk of a battery fire. If there *is* a battery fire, it is likely to burn fast and HOT, so make sure it isn't anywhere near your structures or significant vegetation, just to be sure. Otherwise, very innocuous. Certainly moreso than a cell tower, wind generator, or typical power substation, which is the other type of infrastructure common on private land leases.

I think the only real permanent modification to the land is the need for a concrete pad w/ fencing, and whatever road access required. And, if the lease were to terminate during your lifetime, that would just be an opportunity to build a nice garage atop it!

They would have to run an electrical line to the street which might require additional easements.

If they were to accept my site proposal they would have access via a gravel road used by the local power utility which runs along my back property line right up to where they could install this system.

I’ve never dealt with this kind of company and I’ve heard horror stories about bankruptcy and abandonment of equipment on the lessor’s land requiring expensive remediation.

As I said, this is not likely to get local approval but I can dream.

ab348 · October 14

As long as putting in the concrete pad does not disturb and of the coffee cans full of cash you have buried there, I would take the deal. Just be sure to get your own direct connection to their power and then cancel your service with the utility.

sda · October 14

The good (spoiled) life

corvette · October 14

oldfarmer50 said:
Am I damaging the battery by leaving it plugged in at 100% all night?

Not by a significant amount. The newer Apple devices also have "optimized charging," so if enabled, they will try to predict when you will pick the iPad up again, and aim to be fully charged by then, pausing at 80% until the final stretch.

On the battery lease, could you make it part of the agreement that they install a privacy fence enclosing it? I'd very strongly consider taking the money. $25k per year would probably make the payments on a different place if you didn't want to see it all the time.

oldfarmer50 · October 14

corvette said:

oldfarmer50 said:
Am I damaging the battery by leaving it plugged in at 100% all night?
Not by a significant amount. The newer Apple devices also have "optimized charging," so if enabled, they will try to predict when you will pick the iPad up again, and aim to be fully charged by then, pausing at 80% until the final stretch.

On the battery lease, could you make it part of the agreement that they install a privacy fence enclosing it? I'd very strongly consider taking the money. $25k per year would probably make the payments on a different place if you didn't want to see it all the time.

I didn’t know that about the IPad. It fairly new purchased in January.

Part of the deal is that they enclose the 100’X65’ area with fencing and even plant trees to screen the view.

If figured the lease payments would be a nice legacy for my kids because I doubt I’ll be here for 25 more years.

corvette · October 14

@oldfarmer50 - if those are your thoughts, I'd lean even more heavily towards taking the money. When my grandfather passed away, he had put part of his farm in a program where the government paid him not to farm in order to help prevent soil erosion. It was not a huge payment, but my mother and her brother were very grateful that they didn't have to worry much about that land, other than mowing 1/3 of it yearly, until the program ran out!

driver100 · October 14

Michaell said:

Where do you get the idea that BEVs are being "forced" on people? Yes, there were incentives to buy/lease an EV, but plenty of people chose not to avail themselves of those, and instead bought BMWs, MBs, Toyotas, Fords, etc.

I think ICE vehicles are going to be around for a long, long time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Was this directed at me?
Canada has a 2035 target for 100% of new light-duty vehicle sales to be zero-emission. The government set interim targets, such as 20% by 2026 and 60% by 2030.
In the U.S. former President had a target for 56% of all new US vehicles sold to be electric by 2032 - a huge increase from current levels.
When there are limits, there is a lack of choice. Since the goals were impossible to meet they have been modified.

driver100 · October 14

@oldfarmer50 A church around here was putting in a new sidewalk. When they dug up the old sidewalk they found a huge old oil tank, and they found some old skeletons. The church has to pay for the removal of huge oil tank and clean up any spillage, and they have to pay for archeologists to look for more skeletons and pay for them to be buried properly. A minimum of $150000, probably more, and the church only has 90 members.
The deal sounds like it is hard to pass up, but companies go bankrupt or create a toxic swamp. I don't think it is worth the risk, and i think you are leaning that way too.

jmonroe1 · October 14

driver100 said:
@oldfarmer50 A church around here was putting in a new sidewalk. When they dug up the old sidewalk they found a huge old oil tank, and they found some old skeletons. The church has to pay for the removal of huge oil tank and clean up any spillage, and they have to pay for archeologists to look for more skeletons and pay for them to be buried properly. A minimum of $150000, probably more, and the church only has 90 members.
The deal sounds like it is hard to pass up, but companies go bankrupt or create a toxic swamp. I don't think it is worth the risk, and i think you are leaning that way too.

————————————————
Before I’d sign up for something like this I’d have to get a pile of up-front money with assurances from the governing body that I would not be responsible for any cleanup. Since that ain’t likely to happen, I wouldn’t do it.

I’m a firm believer in all that glitters is not gold. Too good to be true and stuff like that.

jmonroe

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