Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

benjaminh · November 30

xwesx said:
I think that the argument of repair cost versus resale value is a logical fallacy. We don't own our cars because we plan to sell them someday; we own them to drive them! So, yeah, it might not seem to make sense to spend $2,000 on a car "only worth" $6,000, but does it make more sense to spend $6,000 on a different car over that same time period? I would rather spend $2,000 than $6,000, but maybe that is just me.

As such, the primary point of reasoning, assuming one doesn't just want a new car (in which case that IS the root of the argument, and the financial justification is only a way to sooth the conscience), is whether the vehicle has ongoing reliability concerns or will cost more than a replacement.

In most cases, the answer is that it is usually less expensive to keep what you have than to buy something else. I currently set that threshold at $4,500 per year, though that's probably even a little low today.

Good points.

Perhaps I'm misguided, but I thought that a car wasn't totaled out by repairs unless the cost to fix exceeds the market value. So it might still make sense, at lease for some people, to put $5k of repairs into a car worth more or less 6k. But if you're approaching the value of the car when it comes to repairs probably wise to let it go.

Interesting threshold you have of $4500 a year for maintenance and repairs. Seems like a lot. But I guess that makes sense if that's the threshold at which you think you probably need to replace a car.

My maintenance threshold at this point is low. I've spent a total of $2670 on my 2018 TLX since I got it, including a set of Michelin tires. That means I've only spent $360 a year on maintenance and repairs.

I was hoping that doubling that, to around $700 a year for maintenance and repairs, might be enough for the next few years.

But looking at average numbers it seems like I'm being optimistic. AAA says members spend an average of around $1450 a year.

https://www.acg.aaa.com/connect/blogs/4c/auto/how-much-to-budget-for-car-repairs

The site Car Edge says that by year 7 the average TLX owner will be spending at least a thousand a year, and that climbs steadily. More ominously is that the chance of a major repair according them goes up to 40% by the time the car is 12 years old.

https://caredge.com/acura/tlx/maintenance

explorerx4 · November 30

Last night last time I checked, a couple of inches of snow had fallen and it was still snowing.
THis morning it was all gone. Temp rose overnight and precipitation turned to rain. YAAA!

tjc78 · November 30

Nothing like waking up to a chirping fire alarm… then walking every room to find the offender.

venture · November 30

kyfdx said:
Look how nice the yard was raked. My wife is so good at this!

My wife never met a leaf she didn't hate either.

fintail · November 30

stickguy said:
there are kits to convert air suspension to standard. on a lot of the older luxury Euros (especially MB) that is what gets done. I new Mercedes has had a couple of versions of air/active suspension, one that is a lot more expensive to deal with.

Benjamin, we sat in the Camry at the auto show and it was impressive. I would get one of those over an Accord now, but neither of us actually wanted a large sedan. But if you do, a great option.

our debate with swapping out the Acura is multi-faceted. Part if financial, that even at almost 6 YO (real time, now 6 in MY time) with the miles, it is still worth a good amount. Some maintenance coming up (lots of fluids) but not a huge hit, and tires at some point. Mostly, it is to get something new (because I get bored easy), and there are some things the newer cars have that we would like to have. 360 cameras, wireless car play since my wife always has issues getting that to work). And probably some other things. No, we don't "need" it, but if we can, why not treat ourselves?

MB had "airmatic" (normal air suspension) and "active body control" (aka ABC) - the fancy active suspension that had numerous related components. The car belonging to ab's friend being a 2007 (W221) would have airmatic unless a highline car - the prior W220 platform was more likely to have ABC as a standalone option (although still rare and I don't know if it exists as such on a normal W221) and it is also seen more frequently in S coupes and SLs. ABC was standard on AMG cars as well. For a nearly 20 year old S-class, do not do not do not take it to a dealer for repairs. Find a competent indy and at least the bills will be lower. If the suspension hasn't acted up yet, at that age no matter the mileage, it is expected and a cost of operating such a car. I believe updated parts are more reliable, and conversions exist - still plenty of these cars on the road, and many appear cared for. ABC will be another level of complexity and expense, but the AMG and V12 cars are rare and I hope nobody buys one expecting it to be cheap to run even if they found what they thought was a bargain price on the car.

stickguy · November 30

a couple of the youtubers (Legit street cars for sure) have dealt with the V12 MBs with the ABC. what a nightmare of pipes, valve blocks, and fluid. Not something any sane non-mechanic should ever go near.

tjc78 · November 30

When I sold my 04 Grand Marquis in 2017 it was still rolling on its original air suspension. I suspect it wasn’t long before at least the bags needed replacement for the next owner. Rubber only lasts so long.

suydam · November 30

Back to the repair/replace issue. Of course if you just want something reliable to drive you are better off keeping a good car for many years. But that’s not the only reason we have cars. The 2014 Buick Encore, while extremely reliable, is not remotely comparable to the 2024 Kia PHEV we replaced it with. I wanted similar technology to my 2017 Chevy Volt — a plug in, front and rear sensors, rear surround camera, voice controls. Not to mention way better acceleration. We drove each across the country and back — in 2022 and 2024 — and the difference was quite obvious. Not to mention more room and storage, which we didn’t need when we bought the Encore as we didn’t have grandchildren then. Time and Circumstances change and that often makes the difference when deciding whether to repair or replace. We hardly ever buy gas any more because the range in the Sportage is plenty for around town driving.
Same with replacing the Volt. We needed a larger vehicle and my various hip issues made the Volt impractical. Hence the Blazer EV, which is now our road trip vehicle too.

ab348 · November 30

fintail said:

MB had "airmatic" (normal air suspension) and "active body control" (aka ABC) - the fancy active suspension that had numerous related components. The car belonging to ab's friend being a 2007 (W221) would have airmatic unless a highline car - the prior W220 platform was more likely to have ABC as a standalone option (although still rare and I don't know if it exists as such on a normal W221) and it is also seen more frequently in S coupes and SLs. ABC was standard on AMG cars as well. For a nearly 20 year old S-class, do not do not do not take it to a dealer for repairs. Find a competent indy and at least the bills will be lower. If the suspension hasn't acted up yet, at that age no matter the mileage, it is expected and a cost of operating such a car. I believe updated parts are more reliable, and conversions exist - still plenty of these cars on the road, and many appear cared for. ABC will be another level of complexity and expense, but the AMG and V12 cars are rare and I hope nobody buys one expecting it to be cheap to run even if they found what they thought was a bargain price on the car.

I don’t know which version his car has. At least it’s not a V-12.

He mentioned that the assembly on the front left had been repaired/replaced recently but it wasn’t working right in terms of ride height. He is sour on the dealer for a few reasons. They did the usual trick of not doing just an oil change as he requested and insisting on a much more extensive service he didn’t want. There was a lot of back and forth on that and I don’t know how it was resolved. Then his longtime trusted mechanic there passed away unexpectedly which was strike two. Then the indie shop he trusted shut down when the owner retired and sold the property. Since all that he has been seeking an alternative. He took it to one place that carried out the suspension repair but didn’t like them and they apparently screwed that up. There is another place here that seems his best bet but he is hesitant for some reason. He is in his late 70s and was always a quirky personality so changes like this are tough for him to process.

It’s all 20-20 hindsight but when he was younger he had a mix of older Benzes and Caddys and liked them both. When he bought this Benz (from the dealer; it wasn’t cheap) all of us in our group of friends thought he would regret it. He tries to keep it up but it is becoming more difficult.

stickguy · November 30

just going from late 50s to mid-60s has taken a lot of my capacity to deal with "stuff" away. Much of which is probably be related to being swamped at work, and I am way too old for that nonsense. At least next spring that stops being an issue!

I highly doubt that 10 years from now pushing mid-70s (assuming I make it of course!) I would have the ambition to deal with a high maintenance anything, including a car. And not because of the money necessarily, just the desire to chase after anybody or deal with crap

cdnpinhead · November 30

Wait till you're 77. Ask me how I know.

ab348 · November 30

He has always been OCD and I think that led him to make some bad financial decisions after the 2008 meltdown and has never recovered. But that has been a longstanding pattern with him. In ‘05 he sold off 3 collectible cars to a local dealer for far less than they were worth. One of them he hoped I would buy but I had my Cutlass then and that would have made 2 for me, one too many. Here they are:

Mercedes 450:

Lexus SC400

1970 Cutlass SX w/455 engine, a real beast:

Then about a dozen years ago he sold the house he had grown up in and inherited for less then half of what he would have got for it if he had held on to it post-pandemic. I could never understand why he wanted to sell it as it was a nice little place in a good area. Now he’s paying rent.

fintail · November 30

ab348 said:

fintail said:

MB had "airmatic" (normal air suspension) and "active body control" (aka ABC) - the fancy active suspension that had numerous related components. The car belonging to ab's friend being a 2007 (W221) would have airmatic unless a highline car - the prior W220 platform was more likely to have ABC as a standalone option (although still rare and I don't know if it exists as such on a normal W221) and it is also seen more frequently in S coupes and SLs. ABC was standard on AMG cars as well. For a nearly 20 year old S-class, do not do not do not take it to a dealer for repairs. Find a competent indy and at least the bills will be lower. If the suspension hasn't acted up yet, at that age no matter the mileage, it is expected and a cost of operating such a car. I believe updated parts are more reliable, and conversions exist - still plenty of these cars on the road, and many appear cared for. ABC will be another level of complexity and expense, but the AMG and V12 cars are rare and I hope nobody buys one expecting it to be cheap to run even if they found what they thought was a bargain price on the car.
I don’t know which version his car has. At least it’s not a V-12.

He mentioned that the assembly on the front left had been repaired/replaced recently but it wasn’t working right in terms of ride height. He is sour on the dealer for a few reasons. They did the usual trick of not doing just an oil change as he requested and insisting on a much more extensive service he didn’t want. There was a lot of back and forth on that and I don’t know how it was resolved. Then his longtime trusted mechanic there passed away unexpectedly which was strike two. Then the indie shop he trusted shut down when the owner retired and sold the property. Since all that he has been seeking an alternative. He took it to one place that carried out the suspension repair but didn’t like them and they apparently screwed that up. There is another place here that seems his best bet but he is hesitant for some reason. He is in his late 70s and was always a quirky personality so changes like this are tough for him to process.

It’s all 20-20 hindsight but when he was younger he had a mix of older Benzes and Caddys and liked them both. When he bought this Benz (from the dealer; it wasn’t cheap) all of us in our group of friends thought he would regret it. He tries to keep it up but it is becoming more difficult.

Sounds like a quirky guy indeed, always seeking a greener pasture maybe. Unless he is in love with or married to the car, I'd recommend him dump the S for what he can and get a nice used E-class (some generations and models are aging pretty well and are easy to live with) or the default low maintenance lux or near-lux choice, a Lexus. I don't have the patience to deal with an aging S-class even at my age, and I am a MB fan - I can't imagine it if I was 25+ years older. There are some I wouldn't take for free.

If that 450SEL was a 6.9 they can be worth decent money today, even a standard one isn't depreciating assuming it was really mint, riding the upward tide of 70s/80s cars. Not a high dollar car, but barring economic catastrophe, they aren't depreciating.

The house thing reminds me of an old friend who at the bottom of the market was fed up with what he saw as "high taxes" in WA (we have plenty of regressive taxation but the overall burden is mid-pack) and moved to a supposed lower tax state. He sold the house that I am pretty sure his family assisted with for about a third of its current value, a difference today of around a million dollars.

driver100 · November 30

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

@driver100 said:

It's time for you to get a new Genesis. I hear that these days they come and pick up your car, and leave you with a loaner while they work on your car!

——————————————————-

Way too low of miles to get rid of it, less than 14K miles. Doing that would never let me know how good their soup is. Further, I don’t want to spoil myself by having someone come and getting my car. And another thing, I can’t get a V8 again, I wouldn’t know how to act if I got 20 MPG or more.

jmonroe

Your car is 10 years old and you have 14000 miles on it, that's like 1400 miles a year, 125 miles a month 30 miles a week,........have you ever heard of Uber!

I only have 19k on my Mustang. Same year as Jmonroe’s Genny.

1900 miles a year! You need to get an Uber app too!

driver100 · November 30

corvette said:
@kyfdx - if she's your lawn guy, I hope you gave her a nice tip.

It is actually costing him a lot more than he thinks it is costing him

driver100 · November 30

benjaminh said:

Michaell said:

Any chance you have a link?

I’m getting to the same place with the Outback. Almost 11 years old with just shy of 80,000 miles....
As I'm sure you know some really appreciate your 6-cylinder Outback. Probably your Subaru dealer would give you top dollar for a trade-in. But keeping it a few more years might make sense?

I like that question about when to get rid of your car. One thing I have found is that older cars are going to need expensive repairs at some point, my general rule was to fix it once, but if something else goes soon after I would get rid of the car. It is maybe worth a gamble once to try to keep it going, but by the time you spend more $1000s you have too much invested in it and you are tempted to fix it a third time......and like he said, you start to spend more on repairs than the car is worth.
When I watched the video I kept thinking....what about the poor slob who buys this car which is going to need more and more repairs.

driver100 · November 30

@oldfarmer50 I only have 19k on my Mustang. Same year as Jmonroe’s Genny.

Here is a question for you, because I have 48000 miles on the 2014 C250. It looks and drives like a new car, but 10 or 11 years are going to cause some things to fail probably. Do you ever think about trading the car in because things are going to start wearing out because of age?

stickguy · November 30

there always seemed to be a lot of people with Hondas that got rid of them at around 7 years and mid-90s miles. Because 7/100k was a major Honda service (T belt and more, and likely tires and brakes around then) after doing mostly just oil changes for 7 years. And they tended to hold their value very well. So get the good cheap years, and cut bait letting the next guy to (maybe, but quite possibly not) put the money into it.

driver100 · 3:54AM

A friend who knows a fair bit about cars and buys good used cars once said cars seem to need a lot done to them at the 80000 mile mark. I haven't studied that, but I think it could be true.
Hondas reaching 90000 before needing major repairs makes sense, they are more dependable than most cars, and he said this a decade ago.

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