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Comments
LIghter colors are difficult to see Zaino polish when applying. My wife's Avalon is white pearlcoat. I have to really concentrate to make sure I'm overlapping the Zaino application.
I find it's a bit easier to see my applications if I pull it into the garage, out of direct sunlight when Zainoing.
I told the dealer to NOT wax the car when I purchased it and I did do a dawn wash first.
I have done all of the Z work myself EXCEPT I have my auto guy hand wash my car weekly- I supply all z products and towels and told him how to apply. I am thinking that perhaps he is using too much z6 and applying it to a hot car or in the sun.
Per Sal I am going to just wash on Friday- no z6 and see what happens. Let you all know.
Thanks for all of the info.
When it was time to remove the Z2 on our red/beige Mercury Villager, I found a clean car towel, and had no smearing problem at all. I then went back to the Acura, with a second clean towel, gave it a once over with some Z6, and the smearing was gone.
I can only assume that the first towel I used may have been used previously for Z removal, and was not clean enough to produce good results.
I'll have to get the towels in the washer more often.
Yep, those were the days. Now I have to roll up my sleeves, spritz the Z2 on by myself and pray for a mild winter. I'm so glad Zaino is so easy to use.
LOL
Beading occurs when the cohesive force of the water droplet is greater then the adhesive force between the water and the finish--so the water curls up into a ball.. All sort-of but i think the idea is clear.
Just getting the crud off your car with clay will make the finish bead for a long time. Try it--i did. But is a freshly clayed car protected? Not at all!
I judge durability by seeing if waxing/polishing makes a noticable difference in look & feel. Twisting on the surface of the car's finish will also tell you if there's protection--if it just slides, or hops & squeaks.
Bottom line, beading does not mean that your finish is protected.
dave
The scratches showed up under a spotlight. I am sure that under a spotlight my finish would look even worse than his. I guess I am just not that picky.
Zaino Z5 can do wonders on light swirls and scratches that are highly visible under regular lighting conditions and the swirls and scratches will remain hidden for as long as the polish lasts on the finish.
Here are a couple of examples. These are not my cars. Keep in mind these finishes are a mess in comparison to the Porsche.
http://www.geocities.com/yell00itr/TL3
http://www.geocities.com/yell00itr/TL4
http://www.geocities.com/yell00itr/s4-1.html
Maybe Meguiars would do just as good a job on the scratches and swirls that are this bad too. I am actually suprised that Zaino Z5 worked this well.
I could have used an auto guy myself these past two weeks! My car needs to be washed and Z'd! No time! I think it looks good until I see my own pics and say- WOW!- look at that shine! ;-))
fastdriver
PS If he's not busy, can you send him to CT?
I agree, Z-6 STRAIGHT UP is the only way to go!!!!
fastdriver
Never mix Z6 with water. 'Don't know who came up with that one, probably the Turtle Wax folks.
Do mix water with Z7 Car Wash. And you don't need distilled water either. I once tried using a gallon of NYC's finest super wet water as my final rinse. Up in the Berkshires, the water is very hard and I've always had problems with water spots. So this one time I filled up a gallon jug with NYC water, hauled it up to Otis,MA and used it as my final rinse. Didn't help, wasn't worth it, felt like a fool.
The only improvement I've incorporated has been the two bucket method of washing. I fill one bucket with Z7/water in the normal manner, and also fill a second bucket with just pure water. After I've soaked my wash towel in the first bucket and washed a panel, I wash the towel out in the second bucket before again soaking it in the first. Removes 98% of the dirt so you don't dirt particals from one panel to scratch another panel.
http://www.nsxsc.com/nsexcitement/waxtest.html
BTW I only use Zaino on my personal cars; looks great and it's just like the Energizer bunny - it keeps going and going and . . .
Also, my "auto guy" found that mixing z7 with water and keeping it in a little spray bottle is great for bird bombs and other spots that need lubrication to be removed at times when a car wash is not needed.
Finally, my "auto guy" uses just plain water from the tap.
I also know that my girl friend is sleeping with the "auto guy."
My auto guy is me, of course.
Rick
Have a good weekend all.
I prefer using it full strength right before and right after applying a fresh coat of Z2/Z5.
Actually, in the test this topic was started by, the meguiar's seemed to cover the scratches better.
The zaino site an topic make a lot of impressive-sounding claims about how the finish will look & feel, but what that doesn't turn up, the fallback seems to be "but it lasts longer!"
dave
Bias is defined as an "unreasoned distortion of judgment".
A person isn't necessarily biased because he ends up disagreeing with our point of view. He'd have to totally discount the facts he found in front of him.
The problem I had was with his scratch/swirl filling testing. As I said before, his finish was nearly perfect (before testing) in most types of light.
How many people examine their finish that closeup with a spotlight? I have seen the job that Z5 does hiding highly visible scratches and swirls although I never put a spotlight on them afterwards to see if they could still be seen. I just observed the difference in regular lighting conditions and there was major improvement.
No, i do not want to wax once a month. I have a BMW that i love to have look good, and i think the cleaner wax keeps it clean and protects the paint--as a point of reference, i live at about 6000 feet, park outside, and have 320 sunny days per year.
I submit that with the regimen you suggest that the person could just use wax, since i really don't think it does better than the Z stuff anyhoo.
I don't see why the author of the test is admittedly biased.
Bottom line, for someone who wants a long lasting shine with little effort, Zaino is by far the superior product.
You state that like it's a fact, but too me, since i see zero evidence of extra longevity, or extra looks ( in fact, the test here shows it didn't cover scratches as well ) i don't see where the benefit comes in.
dave
I used to get into with them on this topic. It took me awhile to realize that all they were offering were their opinions and no one ever supported any of their claims with facts. All they do is throw opinion after opinion, and when they're pressed for proof, you get name-calling and more opinion.
None of them have attempted any emperical testing like the Porsche guy did. I mean, at least he tried. I applaude him for that.
Be careful, my friend. Things only get worse from here. Forget about expecting them to support their statements with facts because they don't exist. And never did.
I'd be willing to do a similar test as before, with 1/2 the hood in zaino, 1/2 with regular wax--i still have the Z stuff. Kind of hard to test and verify all that, though.
dave
If it mattered to me I'd scroll back in Store Bought Waxes and the Zaino room and find all your posts directed at me and others who challenged your assertions. How many of your posts have been deleted by the Edmunds hosts during the past two years? How many times have you been reprimanded publicly and privately by Edmunds to act in a civil manner?
The difference between fact and opinion is that facts can be verified independently. Facts stand up to scrutiny. A fact becomes one only after some kind of test or trial. Like the Porsche guy attempted.
If you want anyone to believe you then you will have to make the effort to fairly and objectively compare products. Then you will have to use the same objectivity in analysis and reporting. Taking a few pix of your car proves nothing to no one.
Instead of putting all this energy responding to every little comment about Zaino, why not put forth some real effort and conduct a scientific test of products? Get together with all your cronies and develop a balanced format for comparison. Involve the car care product companies as well as their products.
In other words, put your money, time, and energy where your mouth is.
I know what works best and will keep on using it. It was the only product that lived up to my expectations. Use what works best for YOU. People have different things they want from products. If the product you are using meets your criteria keep on using it.
Some people like a wax look, some prefer an acrylic look, and some like a polymer look. Some people are concerned about silicone oils, abrasives, price, others could care less. Some people like to wax once a week, others wax once every 6 months or less. Some people keep their vehicles garaged, others can't. Some people enter their vehicles in car shows while others don't.
No sense in getting in a pissing match over "what's the best wax or polish".
We have a forum to discuss Zaino and a forum to discuss Store Bought Waxes.
I have not found any product better or worse at repelling or attracting dust. IMO Pollen is a seasonal PIA no matter what product you use.
This is why most tests are done "double-blind", so that people's prejudices stay out of the testing results. Ideally, applying zaino to one-half the hood and a competitor's polish to the other side, with neither the applier/owner or the judge knowing which was which...and then looking at the results in 6 months....that would be interesting.
Of course you always want to try new stuff...this is why companies spend billions in advertising, to convinice us to do that. You'd be the rare bird that could resist such 24 hour a day propaganda!
I did think you were stating your opinion as fact earlier "zaino is the BEST for longevity!" but you've backed off on that a lot, so i'm appeased.
I did my best when i ran my test to do a double-blind, but it wasn't fully scientific--i did 1/2 of the hood in each, and asked other people to pick out differences in the halves after a few weeks, then after a few months. The failure of people to differentiate between the meguiar's half and the Z half is what convinced me to not buy any more.
Of course, i did the meguiar's 3-step along with the zaino 3-step and i clayed both halves, so it's not the exact test you're proposing.
Part of the reason i bother here is because there's a lot of people on the Z topic saying things like "your car will glow, people will walk up and try to lick the paint, dust will fall off on it's own." After hearing that, and dropping almost $80 on the polish kit, i was dissapointed that i wasn't able to discern a real improvement from my regular $3 meguiar's cleaner wax.
dave
I just went back to the original site, and i saw the note from sal zaino, claiming that dust wont' stick to the zaino. That's the exactly kind of snake-oil BS that irks me. If anything, the zaino seemed to be a little stickier, but there was too little difference to say either way; a wind shift could have done it. As dusty as it gets around here, that would have been a huge bonus for me.
I also notice that sal zaino claims that silicone is used in all carnuba waxes. I don't think that's entirely true; i don't think there's silicone in the cheap zymol i use.
dave
With some things, like claiming that Barry Bonds is the top home run hitter in baseball today, you don't need photos or even the stats....common agreed upon knowledge...but as to which product is "best" or "lasts longest", you either have to back it up with some evidence or risk not being believed.
If someone doesn't want to believe you, no evidence will work. You need to be talking to people who's minds are opinions are flexible enough to change.
This reminds me of the MAC vs. PC argument, doesn't it?
Why do I mention this? Because CU is the Standard against which all other product testing methods are measured. Anyone who is going to compare products should use CU as their inspriation; if not technical then at the very least ethical.
Our Porsche friend may not have spent the megabucks to mimic CU's testing capability, but at least he put forth the effort to minimize conflicts. I thought he did a good job for one person in his garage.
But there will always been "non-believers" that simply won't accept any other result that differs from their pre-conceived notions.
It's hard for anyone to call me unconvinceable. After all, I have eight brands of products in my garage today (Pinnacle, Meguiars, Eagle One, 3M, Detailers Pride, Finish First, P21S, Lexol). I've used most every brand on the market over the last 20 years. Adding another brand to my palette is no big deal.
PJ has 6 months to develop and refine his testing techniques and methods of analysis. He's never failed to criticise someone's opinions or findings. When his assertions are questioned, he's frequently engaged in personal attacks. Time will tell if he can grow from personal persecutor to objective analyst. Otherwise, whatever he presents in March will be worthless to most everyone but himself.
#803 of 1231 MB by bretfraz Apr 30, 2001 (07:36 am)
"forbidden product". I like that! I'm gonna start using that phrase if you don't mind.
But seriously, I don't recall saying anything bad about that product except that I think it's pricey and I think it's a complex usage process for a novice or casual enthusiast. But those are my opinions, for what they're worth.
Since I've never used the "forbidden product" I can't really offer an honest opinion of it but I do have experience with products very similar to it so I don't feel the need to shell out the mega$$$ to satisfy my curiousity. I've read all the proclamations here in TH and other sites and I'm sure it performs like everyone says it does.
Thank you for the compliment. I'll continue to provide as much insight as possible for all of us who use "Store Bought Waxes".
Second, I guess many of us are just a wee bit rapid. Nothing was lost here except objectivity.
At least dhanley seems to be comming around on testing. And finally, chief rapid mouth bretfraz is beginning to understand the value of double blind testing. Maybe there is hope after all. Hey, if we can nail Bin Ladin, maybe we can agree that objective testing has merit. Thanks, Shifty, we all needed that input.
So while your blood is still flowing, I'll bite the bone and offer my own "non-objective" conclusions too:
* Meguiar's is a very good product. In terms of shine and swirl removal, I'll concede that Meguiar's is up there with Zaino and may indeed (accepting this test's results) have the edge in terms of swirl removal. If you are a Meguiar's fan and like the results, then stick with it.
* My personal criteria for an external car paint finishing product includes: Protection, Endurance, Shine, Ease of Application, scratch removal/cover up, and cost. This test covered two of these important criteria in a good fashion, and thus, should serve as a standard along with other tests that have been published here at TH.
* At a Zaino user, I noted that shine was really rated about equal. Actually, from prior use of Meguiar's and Zaino, these products produce slightly different types of shines: clear vs color enhanced. Both are good and which is best is a matter of taste.
* The scratch or swirl removal results seem to be extremely close with Meguiar's winning by a nose so to speak. Both products are very good and the differences small (A vs A+). Still, I'll except these results.
* Because I drive a daily commuter in the NorthEast, I am extremely aware of road salts, brake dust, hard particals, ice, and a wide variety of enviornmental nasties (rocks, construction junk, etc). For me, protection from the elements is a primary concern. Thus, how well a wax or polymer seals the surface against water, ice, temperature changes, and those tiny micro-metal based dust particals has real dollar meaning for me. From my own (non-objective) testing and from what I've researched about polymers, Zaino's Z2 product is still the best for my needs.
* Because I live in NYC and do not have a good facility for washing and detailing my own car, Endurance is an important factor for me too. Again, from my experiences, Zaino is still the champ.
* I could go on with the other factors which are important to me and build a rather complete case for Zaino products. Even the harshest critic will admit that Zaino is a first class set of products and that its initial higher costs are more than offset by ease of use, endurnance, and number of applications per bottle. But rather than get into really stupid arguments which will only serve to confuse many causual readers, I think it is time to really understand what our host, Shifty, has been saying to us:
Its not absolutely necessary to debate every attribute between two or three great products. But since that has happened, the double blind and complete factor testing as practiced by CU is the only way to settle some of these issues. Until we can get a third party such as CU to include our favority products in such a test, most of our silly arguments amount to little more than BS. I like Zaino and will stick with it, and I also expect experienced Meguiar users to do the same. Both of our cars will look really good, and that should make us all happy. And if you don't agree with me, then I'll arrange to have you dropped on Kabul and you can explain yourself to the Taliban.
But you had better speak up soon because my friends in the US Air Force tell me the Taliban are not long for this world.
I did a test long ago! You have not. I've mentioned this several times. I did 1/2 of the hood in meguiar's, one in zaino, had other people judge looks not knowing which was which.. etc.
I take difference with your comment :
Even the harshest critic will admit that Zaino is a first class set of products and that its initial higher costs are more than offset by ease of use, endurnance, and number of applications per bottle.
I very stridently disagree with this. I didn't see what a $12.95 bottle of the Z stuff got me that a $3-4 can of paste cleaner wax did not. It wasn't easier, it didn't seem to last any longer, and it wasn't some magical bottomless bottle. You can put any wax on thinly, just like you can put the Z stuff on.
Your opinion is fine, it's your opinion, and we seem to have had different experiences. But please don't try to put words in my mouth regarding my feelings about testing, and my acceptance of value.
dave
Just don't make me sit in the middle seat.
I use what is left in the bottle on exterior non-painted plastic bumpers and trim in the winter when I go to the self serve carwash. I just wipe on those areas when home and rinse it off at the wash bay. It gives a little short lived shine.
Some questions about Collinite wax: They offer 7 types: Which is the best one? And what kind of gloss does the Collinite Super Doublecoat give? I see that it is guaranteed to give a full year of protection even under adverse conditions--what has been your experience? How does it shine after a few rainstorms and high temperatures? Is it easy to put on and remove?
My experience has been that most waxes don't last much beyond 6 weeks and the gloss quickly diminishes. I have also found most waxes much more difficult to remove than Zaino and often they leave annoying residue in cracks and edges that is a PIA to remove.