Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

jmonroe1 · January 11

@ab348 said:
Subaru's first EV was a failure for a number of very good reasons such as poor range and high cost. Time will tell if this one is better. Toyota EVs themselves have not been noted for their range either. I'm not a fan of the black plastic goiters affixed to the front fenders though.

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In the USA those are better known as ‘Upstate NY Rust Hiders’.

jmonroe

ab348 · January 11

stickguy said:
EVs are big elsewhere in the world so they could potentially still sell all they need to elsewhere, as the US goes back to the stone ages.

Sales in Canada have also fallen off a cliff. Turns out that at the prices they charge, they don't sell too well without govt incentives.

jmonroe1 · January 11

@nyccarguy said:

@explorerx4 said:
There is nothing about the Trailseeker that would make me consider it.
Less horsepower than what I have now, 35-70% less range based on 260 miles for TS, not as much ground clearance as an Outback has a high price, plus the styling in unattractive.
18 inch wheels are standard but the one in the video look like at least 20's.
Tires are all season's which don't fit with something called the Trailseeker.

Also, it isn’t a FORD. That’s the number one reason you won’t consider it;)-

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Yep, he should have just said that right off.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 · January 11

stickguy said:
EVs are big elsewhere in the world so they could potentially still sell all they need to elsewhere, as the US goes back to the stone ages.

If states like NY don’t upgrade their electric grid we’re all going to be living in the Stone Age. At least when the grid collapses the Dino-fueled vehicles will still work.

jmonroe1 · January 11

@oldfarmer50 said:
If states like NY don’t upgrade their electric grid we’re all going to be living in the Stone Age. At least when the grid collapses the Dino-fueled vehicles will still work.

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Until the gas pumps won’t work without power. We should have known all along that these new-fangled EV’s would do us in.

jmonroe

explorerx4 · January 11

I pretty much won't consider anything FWD based. I just don't like the 'feel' of it.
Being ugly, not a good value and has a short range knocks it further down the list.
If I don't drive my ICE vehicle for a week or two, it still has the same range.

nyccarguy · January 11

@explorerx4 said:
I pretty much won't consider anything FWD based. I just don't like the 'feel' of it.
Being ugly, not a good value and has a short range knocks it further down the list.
If I don't drive my ICE vehicle for a week or two, it still has the same range.

And it’s not a ford!

All kidding aside, I do wish Ford would come out with some Camry & Civic competitors. They’ve got some great engines. @corvette & @stickguy seem very happy with their hybrids. The 4cyl Ecoboost has been in production for quite a while now and is reliable. The 2.7L & 3.5L Ecoboost engines are very powerful & the 5.0V8 needs no introduction.

corvette · January 11

@nyccarguy - only @stickguy has a Maverick hybrid.

nyccarguy · January 11

@corvette said:
@nyccarguy - only @stickguy has a Maverick hybrid.

Right. I forgot.

oldfarmer50 · January 12

nyccarguy said:

@explorerx4 said:

I pretty much won't consider anything FWD based. I just don't like the 'feel' of it.

Being ugly, not a good value and has a short range knocks it further down the list.

If I don't drive my ICE vehicle for a week or two, it still has the same range.

And it’s not a ford!

All kidding aside, I do wish Ford would come out with some Camry & Civic competitors. They’ve got some great engines. @corvette & @stickguy seem very happy with their hybrids. The 4cyl Ecoboost has been in production for quite a while now and is reliable. The 2.7L & 3.5L Ecoboost engines are very powerful & the 5.0V8 needs no introduction.

I’ve inadvertently become a Ford fleet owner and I couldn’t agree more. I think they really shot themselves in the foot by not having at least one sedan in their line up. Perhaps it was government regulations, perhaps it was production costs but more likely it was their own missteps like the design defects on early 1.5L engines that chased customers away.

Regardless they should have at least kept the Fusion if nothing else.

tjc78 · January 12

I don’t disagree with what you guys are saying … but at the end of the day you fight the fights you can win.

Big statement here … but no domestic compact or mid size sedan has been competitive with a Camry/Corolla/Accord/Civic since 1990 (or maybe even before)

Sure we had some decent ones but take fleet sales out and the imports win by a landslide.

explorerx4 · January 12

For Ford, Fusion sales numbers weren't really a problem, the company decided it could make more profit selling other models.
They had a minimum profit percentage goal and if a model fell under it, it was discontinued.
I don't really get that philosophy but that''s what the company decided to do.

tjc78 · January 12

The profit wasn't there because at least a third of them went into fleets.

I've driven several versions of them and it was a good driving/comfortable car.

corvette · January 12

IMO, the second gen Fusion was a trendsetter in brining AWD back to sedans (a bandwagon later jumped on by Toyota and Nissan).

tjc78 · January 12

Toyota and Nissan added it because it was a zero engineering value add. All the small and midsize SUVs were based on the sedan platforms anyway, so once they had the AWD architecture tooled up it was nothing to add it to the sedan lineup.

I'm not a familiar with the Fusion and what it shares with other Ford FWD based products.

explorerx4 · January 12

@corvette,
The first gen Fusion was available with AWD, too. I had one.

xwesx · January 12

benjaminh said:
I’ve purchased what might be the first new car of the year for this thread, and the embarrassing thing is it’s another Outback. Got invoice price (3k off list), as well as an ok trade-in for my Acura with 93,000 miles that soon would’ve needed the 100k service for $2k + maybe $1k of suspension work recommended by the Acura dealer + in a year or two $1k for new tires. Could’ve written a check, but instead went with Subaru’s 0.9% for six years with monthly payments of $344.

Congrats, Benjamin! Only one more to go!

xwesx · January 12

stickguy said:
I like that Bronco. My wife would make my life miserable if I got one I think.

My experience is that these are surprisingly luxurious! That experience is very limited, admittedly, but the one in which I rode is quite nice. I'd say similar to, if slightly less than, my Q7 in terms of quiet and comfortable.

xwesx · January 12

Lovely sun dogs today….

Michaell · January 12

I’m sitting in my Outback waiting for AAA to arrive and give me a jump. Stopped to get gas while running errands and the darn thing wouldn’t start after filling the tank.

Granted, it had been just a bit slow in starting the last couple of mornings. The battery isn’t that old, if I recall.

explorerx4 · January 12

The Subaru battery thing is real. Unfortunately.
My Explorer stop/start has not been functioning lately.
I've put it down to not driving it much but it just went about 400 miles yesterday and it has not reactivated.
Not a huge fan of stop/start but I like things that are supposed to work, work.

Michaell · January 12

@explorerx4 said:
The Subaru battery thing is real. Unfortunately.
My Explorer stop/start has not been functioning lately.
I've put it down to not driving it much but it just went about 400 miles yesterday and it has not reactivated.
Not a huge fan of stop/start but I like things that are supposed to work, work.

Ugh. AAA says another 67 minutes…

andres3 · January 12

The Focus RS was fast but plagued with rumors of being "Ford" like on the tow truck all the time. Don't see them running on the tracks at all around here. The ST seems to have lasted longer. I think I saw a Fiesta ST at the last HPDE. Canyon Carving their was a kid in a Focus ST of course he was concerned about not "pushing it" too hard. I don't think the Escort won any customers either.

benjaminh · January 12

Michaell: hang in there.

At some point, if you have a chance in the next week or so, I'd be interested to know how old your failed battery was.

The battery failed on my Acura in 2021, three years after I got it. In retrospect I had noticed that it was getting slow in starting a few times before it conked out.

I've gone down a bit of a rabbit hole on stop/start, which I think was installed in the Outback beginning with the 2020 model. Anyway, I feel like it might possibly add just a little to engine wear. Plus even with the big battery our Outbacks have installed oem, stories on fb indicate that after 3 years or so they fail, and then cost $400+ to replace. So for that reason we've started pressing the A button on the home screen when we remember to shut off stop-start.

Anyway, with the heavy duty starter we know we're not going to need to ever replace that as far as I can tell. For a Toyota the starter for cars with stop-start is designed to last for 384,000 starts, which is at least ten times what a regular starter will do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTBN8Ic57Gg

stickguy · January 12

On the Acura part of the starting procedure is turning off stop start. It’s. Wry rough on that car. On the hybrid truck, don’t even notice it!

corvette · January 12

The start stop on my mother's 2018 Q5 is fairly perceptible. Some, including my dad, would call it rough, and he disables it each time on startup. I think it can be coded to persist in its previous state on startup, if you have the right cable and software. He doesn't mind the start stop in his Ranger, nor do I the one in my Maverick, although my ex thought the Maverick had died when she was driving it and stopped at a traffic light.

explorerx4 · January 12

How about Auto climate control setting?
Does antone use it?
Never use it but my kids do. I think it sucks a lot of fuel.

corvette · January 12

I do. The "auto" fan speeds in the Maverick tend to abruptly shut the fan off or nearly off sometimes, especially in warmer weather. The feeling of the sudden drop in airflow gives me a vertigo-like feeling. Fortunately, there's a knob for the fan speed.

The Ariya generally stays on or near 61 (lowest setting above "low") in the winter.

tifighter · January 12

For those GTI guys in the audience-

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2004-volkswagen-r32-228/

jmonroe1 · January 12

@explorerx4 said:
How about Auto climate control setting?
Does antone use it?
Never use it but my kids do. I think it sucks a lot of fuel.

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I use auto climate control all the time. I turn it on and never touch it again. When you have a V8 you better not be looking for good gas mileage because you’re going to be very disappointed. It’s a fact of life so live with it. Losing a little more mileage doesn’t bother me. I even use auto climate control on Mrs. j’s Subie that has a 6 cylinder.

jmonroe

kyfdx · January 12

tifighter said:
For those GTI guys in the audience-

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2004-volkswagen-r32-228/

Really sweet.

tjc78 · January 12

I have used the Auto climate setting on every car I’ve owned with it going back to my 89 Grand Marquis.

tjc78 · January 12

@stickguy said:
On the Acura part of the starting procedure is turning off stop start. It’s. Wry rough on that car. On the hybrid truck, don’t even notice it!

Me too. Start it up and immediately press the button. My Volvos were great, turn it off in the menu and it’s gone forever.

ab348 · January 12

The Caddy has both stop-start and auto CC. I remember the stop-start annoying me a few times but now that it’s been brought to mind, I haven’t noticed it recently. Maybe it only works when you don’t need heat in the cabin? I should check. The auto CC has been on since the day I got it, haven’t noticed a thing.

corvette · January 12

I've never driven an R32, but the VR6 is a great sounding engine.

xwesx · January 12

tjc78 said:
I have used the Auto climate setting on every car I’ve owned with it going back to my 89 Grand Marquis.

I use it in the Q7. It is the only vehicle I have ever owned that *does* have such a feature! LOL

explorerx4 · January 12

I would like to see a driving video for that R32.
Without the using the Auto setting I drove to the gas station and car wash, about 10 miles, 20 to 45 spred limit and mauevering to get into the side load garage. Mpg's are at 25.
Edit:
I'm comparing to a 390 mile trip 95% highway. Of course, I don't know what speed driving was at.

Michaell · January 12

OK, to answer the inevitable questions:

1. It took AAA about 90 minutes to get to me, from the time I placed the service call (they estimated 97, so I suppose that's not too bad)
2. The guy cleaned all the terminals (fair amount of corrosion), then put in all back together and tested it. 10.4 volts and a whopping 117 CCA (battery is rated at 550 CCA)
3. AAA will no longer field swap batteries on the Subaru Outback, due to the parasitic draw issues they're known for
4. $225 later at Advanced Auto Parts, I now have a new Die Hard brand battery (sorry, John McClane action figure not included)
5. The current battery was installed in April of 2022, so almost 4 years of service from it. This is the 3rd new battery I've put into the car in almost 11 years of ownership

jmonroe1 · January 12

@xwesx said:
I use it in the Q7. It is the only vehicle I have ever owned that does have such a feature! LOL

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Believe it or not I had auto-climate control on my ‘80 Park Ave bought used in ‘83. It wasn’t digital. It had a wheel with the degree numbers you wanted to set it to. So you just rolled it to that setting opposite an arrow. I thought that would be a problem in a month or two but it worked perfectly till the day I sold it in ‘97. To say I was surprised how well and how long it worked would be a vast understatement.

jmonroe

corvette · January 12

@Michaell - glad you got it taken care of! Some people suggest replacing batteries at the 3-4 year mark, even if they seem fine, but that might be overkill.

28firefighter · January 12

@tifighter said:
For those GTI guys in the audience-

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2004-volkswagen-r32-228/

Just take my money.

benjaminh · 3:41AM

One thing that impressed me about the Acura TLX I just traded in was that it was still on the original brakes at 93,000 miles. More than half of my driving was on the highway, and I tend to be gentle on brakes, for instance by coasting at times such as when approaching a red light. When I was a kid I noticed that's how my Mom usually drove. My Dad in contrast almost always either had his foot on the gas or on the brakes, while my Mom could go in-between and coast when possible. In addition to driving style, the brake pads on that Acura were higher quality than on the Hondas I've owned, or any other car that matter. They never squeaked, and they just seemed to last and last.

But if I'd kept the TLX the front and rear brake pads almost certainly would have needed replacing in the next three years, which probably would have added up to around $1k at the Acura dealer.

And I just looked it up, and the battery on my TLX failed in January of 2022, and so it was four years old and also in need of a preventative replacement.

Anyway, I'm already enjoying that new car feeling of not worrying about what might wear out next, at least for the next few years.

explorerx4 · 4:47AM

Corrosion on the battery terminals is supposed to be a symptom of a leaking battery.

oldfarmer50 · 5:34AM

explorerx4 said:
The Subaru battery thing is real. Unfortunately.
My Explorer stop/start has not been functioning lately.
I've put it down to not driving it much but it just went about 400 miles yesterday and it has not reactivated.
Not a huge fan of stop/start but I like things that are supposed to work, work.

Is it still under warranty? That’s something I rather the dealer pay for but that would bug me too.

I just discovered that the driver’s heated seat in the Fusion isn’t working and I’m debating spending the money to fix it.

oldfarmer50 · 5:41AM

tifighter said:
For those GTI guys in the audience-

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2004-volkswagen-r32-228/

Boy, that must have been one rare and special car. It’s interesting that the traditional classic cars from the 50s and 60s are bringing less at the auctions but the more modern cars seem to have developed an affluent fan base. I guess the demographic for the older cars is dying off.

oldfarmer50 · 5:47AM

Michaell said:
OK, to answer the inevitable questions:

1. It took AAA about 90 minutes to get to me, from the time I placed the service call (they estimated 97, so I suppose that's not too bad)
2. The guy cleaned all the terminals (fair amount of corrosion), then put in all back together and tested it. 10.4 volts and a whopping 117 CCA (battery is rated at 550 CCA)
3. AAA will no longer field swap batteries on the Subaru Outback, due to the parasitic draw issues they're known for
4. $225 later at Advanced Auto Parts, I now have a new Die Hard brand battery (sorry, John McClane action figure not included)
5. The current battery was installed in April of 2022, so almost 4 years of service from it. This is the 3rd new battery I've put into the car in almost 11 years of ownership

All those computers take a lot of juice. The battery in my 2000 Chrysler was there when I bought it 8 years ago and who knows how long before that. It still starts without trouble although I do have to keep it on a trickle charger over the winter or it will crank weakly after sitting a month or two.

oldfarmer50 · 5:51AM

corvette said:
@Michaell - glad you got it taken care of! Some people suggest replacing batteries at the 3-4 year mark, even if they seem fine, but that might be overkill.

The battery died on my 2008 Eclipse after 5 years without warning. I replaced it on my Mustang after about 8 years because it started cranking weakly.

nyccarguy · 6:22AM

@oldfarmer50 said:
Boy, that must have been one rare and special car. It’s interesting that the traditional classic cars from the 50s and 60s are bringing less at the auctions but the more modern cars seem to have developed an affluent fan base. I guess the demographic for the older cars is dying off.

If you think about it, the demographic that lusted after these cars or owned one of these cars from the ‘50s & ‘60s maybe bought one when they were 40-55 years old. Drove it on beautiful days for a couple of years, then less and less as time goes by. Something needs to be replaced in the fall and they say: “I’ll get to it in the Spring.” Then the car ends up sitting for 3-5 years. Now the guy or woman who bought that car is now in their late ‘70s, maybe early ‘80s. The car is hard to get into and even harder to get out of. Maybe they have some sort of a health scare or just realize none of their kids want the car. The people who have said for years: “let me know when you want to sell that car, I’ll buy it” aren’t around anymore. It’s sad.

I’m into cars and have an affinity for my Dad’s 1966 427 Corvette Convertible. It’s eventually going to be mine. I don’t have a place to put it. I’m not going to pay money to rent garage space. I’m not going to spend $100K to build a detached garage on my property for it…

au1994 · 7:49AM

nyccarguy said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

Boy, that must have been one rare and special car. It’s interesting that the traditional classic cars from the 50s and 60s are bringing less at the auctions but the more modern cars seem to have developed an affluent fan base. I guess the demographic for the older cars is dying off.

If you think about it, the demographic that lusted after these cars or owned one of these cars from the ‘50s & ‘60s maybe bought one when they were 40-55 years old. Drove it on beautiful days for a couple of years, then less and less as time goes by. Something needs to be replaced in the fall and they say: “I’ll get to it in the Spring.” Then the car ends up sitting for 3-5 years. Now the guy or woman who bought that car is now in their late ‘70s, maybe early ‘80s. The car is hard to get into and even harder to get out of. Maybe they have some sort of a health scare or just realize none of their kids want the car. The people who have said for years: “let me know when you want to sell that car, I’ll buy it” aren’t around anymore. It’s sad.

I’m into cars and have an affinity for my Dad’s 1966 427 Corvette Convertible. It’s eventually going to be mine. I don’t have a place to put it. I’m not going to pay money to rent garage space. I’m not going to spend $100K to build a detached garage on my property for it…

We have seen the shift before in the collector market. Interest in the Model T's and Model A's along with cars of the 30's and 40's fell off and shoebox Chevys and muscle cars became all the rage. Now, its cars of the 80's and 90's. The demographics are that the guys who wanted a CRX or R32 as a teen have the disposable income to buy one now, same as it was with the other collector trends.

@nyccarguy I get what you are saying about the Corvette. So would you ever sell it? It'd be a shame to let it live outside. Sentimentality is a strong thing though, it would be tough to part with it.

tjc78 · 8:00AM

I think we will only see the values on that era of car continue to decline. 80s and 90s cars will continue to go up as us Gen X and Millennials age and can afford "classics"

Things like Grand Nationals, Supras, 3000GT, 300ZX turbos will be even more over the top expensive for prime examples.

Even 80s land yachts go for big money

Case in point -

I sold my 89 in 2003 ish .... it was in every bit of good shape and same miles. I got $5500 for it and people didn't believe me.

There are several that sold for over 10K and another close to what this one sold for.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1989-lincoln-town-car-38/

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