Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

explorerx4 · February 23

@corvette,
Nice one with the hints.

stickguy · February 23

if we finally get a new car (the process is slow, thanks to this awful weather and brutal work loads) it is going to be something my wife wants. If I get something because it is a killer deal, it has to be something to become "my" car. And still has to meet her standards for being comfortable enough to ride in (and acceptable access!)

stickguy · February 23

to expand on this, we really have a family car x2, since we probably drive together more than either of us drives solo.

qbrozen · February 23

Hunting for cheap vehicles is tough. Either dealers are trying to score 200% profit or the Facebook fools curbstoning junk while title jumping. I’ve come across several lately that I come to find out they were bought at insurance auction, yet have clean titles. It’s scary.

stickguy · February 23

I bought lots of cheaper used cars back in my younger days. I don't think I could possibly do it now, so good thing I shouldn't ever have need for one.

nyccarguy · February 23

@qbrozen said:
Hunting for cheap vehicles is tough. Either dealers are trying to score 200% profit or the Facebook fools curbstoning junk while title jumping. I’ve come across several lately that I come to find out they were bought at insurance auction, yet have clean titles. It’s scary.

Very. Everything under $10K is just bad news.

This 2007 Camry Hybrid with under 100K miles. Do you think the dealer paid $3K for this? Not to mention it’s going to need a new hybrid battery at this age regardless of the miles.

https://www.acuraofstamford.com/used/Toyota/2008-Toyota-Camry-Hybrid-55d834e7ac180948e54d98d2802ceb7e.htm

Here’s a 2013 Civic LX with 128K miles. What did they pay $3,500?

https://www.mahwahhonda.com/used/Honda/2013-Honda-Civic-90b3da4aac1851004e90893354cd199c.htm

stickguy · February 23

now that my daughter and SIL have moved to suburbia, they likely will need a 2nd car at some point. SIL is not a big car guy, and figures that since they have a nice new car, he would just buy a 10 YO civic or some such and run it into the ground. It just does not seem to make sense at that price for high miles. Plus I don't want to deal with issues! To me, something more in the 3 YO with 40K range on it would give better use for more years. and might not even cost more money over the term. Especially since it would be more on principal, not out of need.

corvette · February 23

I tend to recommend "used hooptie Prius" since it worked pretty well for me.

stickguy · February 23

One problem for me. I don’t want to drive a hooptie.

Michaell · February 23

Except that the favored brands - Honda and Toyota - a 3 year old version would cost not much less than a new car.

Do they need AWD? I'm sure they could find a decent Corolla or Civic in the low $20's.

ab348 · February 24

Thanks for the hints. That place you clued me into is not one I ever visited online, much less bought from, so my cluelessness is understandable.

On the subject of cheap used cars: I think I mentioned it here at the time, but a couple of years ago I got a cab ride in a older Camry like that 2007 hybrid. The driver told me that he had recently had to replace the hybrid battery after it turned something north of 300K kilometers, which cost him a couple of grand thanks to junkyard parts. The thing was worn but not awful and he said it made a fantastic car for that kind of duty.

stickguy · February 24

They don’t need AWD for a spare car.

stickguy · February 24

That cabbie may have saved $20/week on gas. So $1000 per year and $10k in 10 years. Ahead of the game

tjc78 · February 24

qbrozen said:
Hunting for cheap vehicles is tough. Either dealers are trying to score 200% profit or the Facebook fools curbstoning junk while title jumping. I’ve come across several lately that I come to find out they were bought at insurance auction, yet have clean titles. It’s scary.

I wanted something to knock around in, drive in the snow etc with a 4-5K budget. I eventually gave up. It is either neglected miled up junk or other junk that is given a cut/buff/vacuum and a code scan before asking the moon for.

au1994 · February 24

stickguy said:
now that my daughter and SIL have moved to suburbia, they likely will need a 2nd car at some point. SIL is not a big car guy, and figures that since they have a nice new car, he would just buy a 10 YO civic or some such and run it into the ground. It just does not seem to make sense at that price for high miles. Plus I don't want to deal with issues! To me, something more in the 3 YO with 40K range on it would give better use for more years. and might not even cost more money over the term. Especially since it would be more on principal, not out of need.

I bet I know where they could get a low mileage Acura.

stickguy · February 24

I would feel bad ripping them off though.

If my father ever has to give up driving there will be a low mile Sentra available though.

au1994 · February 24

The Sentra would actually be a perfect fit.

nyccarguy · February 24

@tjc78 said:
I wanted something to knock around in, drive in the snow etc with a 4-5K budget. I eventually gave up. It is either neglected miled up junk or other junk that is given a cut/buff/vacuum and a code scan before asking the moon for.

+1 and this isn’t even discounting the fact that @qbrozen is extremely mechanically. The mileage blockers scare me. The cars with the codes cleared and fully detailed scare me. The neglect of any other service other than an oil change or tire rotation scares me.

stickguy · February 24

It really needing another car takes the pressure off. I feel bad for you youngsters trying to find something for teens. Much easier to buy new or slightly used CPO. Only money and you can’t take it with you

sda · February 24

That is a primary reason I gave the 2018 Passat with then 56k to my daughter when we sold the TL. I knew getting a nice car for less than $15k would be a challenge and I knew the history of the Passat. That also enabled me to scratch CCBA itch and buy the Arteon

au1994 · February 24

And exactly why we passed on the X1. Much better than dipping into the used pool or ponying up to buy a new Civic/Corolla/Sentra.

oldfarmer50 · February 24

qbrozen said:
Hunting for cheap vehicles is tough. Either dealers are trying to score 200% profit or the Facebook fools curbstoning junk while title jumping. I’ve come across several lately that I come to find out they were bought at insurance auction, yet have clean titles. It’s scary.

I said it before that all the scammers and curbstoners fled Craigslist to Facebook as soon as CL started charging for ads. If you look a CL today it is mostly dealers.

With the complexity of today’s cars I don’t feel confident in my ability to judge the fitness of a cheap used car.

oldfarmer50 · February 24

nyccarguy said:

@qbrozen said:

Hunting for cheap vehicles is tough. Either dealers are trying to score 200% profit or the Facebook fools curbstoning junk while title jumping. I’ve come across several lately that I come to find out they were bought at insurance auction, yet have clean titles. It’s scary.

Very. Everything under $10K is just bad news.

This 2007 Camry Hybrid with under 100K miles. Do you think the dealer paid $3K for this? Not to mention it’s going to need a new hybrid battery at this age regardless of the miles.

https://www.acuraofstamford.com/used/Toyota/2008-Toyota-Camry-Hybrid-55d834e7ac180948e54d98d2802ceb7e.htm

Here’s a 2013 Civic LX with 128K miles. What did they pay $3,500?

https://www.mahwahhonda.com/used/Honda/2013-Honda-Civic-90b3da4aac1851004e90893354cd199c.htm

Isn’t there some way of testing the condition of a hybrid battery? I know I’ve seen videos about Tesla dealers turning down trade ins that had less than 80% of new capacity so they must have some method of testing. Maybe make any sale conditional on the battery testing out as good.

EDIT: I guess there is:

https://youtube.com/shorts/Dhs4iqMB8v0?si=-DVRA-VMHy3znYLR

The Honda looks good but CarFax says price is only “fair”. This might be a chance to use your CBBA negotiation skills.

greg128 · February 24

benjaminh said:

nyccarguy said:
...I can lease for that price for the next 3 years and have zero out of pocket maintenance expenses. That Outback is going to need something. In 3 years how much life is it going to have left in it?

Buying or leasing new makes sense to me because of things like this: A few days ago on an Outback FB page saw a $5k repair bill for the air conditioning for a c. 7 year old Outback. There are a very small number of 2025 Forester and 2025 Outbacks left that have low financing and low lease rates. Should be able to get at least $3k off of list + 0% or 0.9%. According to this site, by the time the average Outback is 11 years old the chance of a major repair is close to 40%. Stats are similar for other brands.

https://caredge.com/subaru/outback/maintenance

My niece has a 2016 Outback with around 80K miles and brought it to the dealer for a check engine light. It was addressed (not sure what they did) along with a full brake job which set her back $3500. I have heard Subaru maintenance cost are high.

greg128 · February 24

A $41,000 dent? I wouldn't want to pay pay the insurance on one of these.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/M90L9FAQOr0

oldfarmer50 · February 24

greg128 said:
A $41,000 dent? I wouldn't want to pay pay the insurance on one of these.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/M90L9FAQOr0

Somebody thought Rivian owner and sucker were synonymous.

xwesx · February 24

I'm not sure how I forgot about this.... My son bought a "new" car last weekend. 2011 Subaru Outback 3.6R. This is one of the last ones with the five-speed automatic. He's really enjoying it so far!

au1994 · February 24

greg128 said:

benjaminh said:

nyccarguy said:
...I can lease for that price for the next 3 years and have zero out of pocket maintenance expenses. That Outback is going to need something. In 3 years how much life is it going to have left in it?

Buying or leasing new makes sense to me because of things like this: A few days ago on an Outback FB page saw a $5k repair bill for the air conditioning for a c. 7 year old Outback. There are a very small number of 2025 Forester and 2025 Outbacks left that have low financing and low lease rates. Should be able to get at least $3k off of list + 0% or 0.9%. According to this site, by the time the average Outback is 11 years old the chance of a major repair is close to 40%. Stats are similar for other brands.

https://caredge.com/subaru/outback/maintenance
My niece has a 2016 Outback with around 80K miles and brought it to the dealer for a check engine light. It was addressed (not sure what they did) along with a full brake job which set her back $3500. I have heard Subaru maintenance cost are high.

Need to know what it took to fix the CEL before calling Subaru maintenance costs high. In my experience, dealer brake jobs are notoriously expensive.

qbrozen · February 24

If the weather ever cooperates, I may go check this out for him.
https://www.autoheadquartersinc.com/Inventory/Details/79534a6a-d48f-4c4d-bc33-20d61df05a59

Michaell · February 24

The Outback, at 81,000 miles, has developed a leak between the engine and transmission, enough that all of the seals need to be replaced. $2800 is the estimate, and the transmission has to be dropped to complete the work.

Grrr.

(and yes, I've been shopping, as well. My problem is that I don't really want anything I can afford, and I can't afford anything I really want)

stickguy · February 24

Cars be expensive these days.

At least if I finally buy something special it may be the last one!

suydam · February 24

Wrong forum for that idea!

sda · February 25

@Michaell said:
The Outback, at 81,000 miles, has developed a leak between the engine and transmission, enough that all of the seals need to be replaced. $2800 is the estimate, and the transmission has to be dropped to complete the work.

Grrr.

(and yes, I've been shopping, as well. My problem is that I don't really want anything I can afford, and I can't afford anything I really want)

Is it the rear main seal? Are you finding oil drops on the driveway? Our TL leaked a little for years but not enough to require adding oil between changes. I kept a close eye on it. I put oil absorbent similar to kitty litter on the driveway to catch the drips and not soil the driveway.

stickguy · February 25

Dealers often want to make it perfect (at huge expense) when it is quite possible you can live with a leak for years. So is that really a gotta do it right now or your likely to lose the engine situation?

ab348 · February 25

Michaell said:
The Outback, at 81,000 miles, has developed a leak between the engine and transmission, enough that all of the seals need to be replaced. $2800 is the estimate, and the transmission has to be dropped to complete the work.

Grrr.

(and yes, I've been shopping, as well. My problem is that I don't really want anything I can afford, and I can't afford anything I really want)

I'm much the same. There is little out there I'm aware of that I would want and thankfully I don't need to do anything at the moment. I suppose someday when the ATS finally goes away I will end up in a CUV of some sort though I don't know what. I just watched some intro videos of the new Mazda CX-5 and while those are the typical gentle, fawning pieces you get from those first-drive sessions, it amazes me how many things seem to miss the mark on a new design. Many of the Mazda faithful are quite upset.

My condolences on the Subaru issues. I know very little about Subarus since I never really felt much attraction towards them, but they are very popular here and my two neighbors across the street both have one. A former boss of mine also had one a couple of decades ago and it was troublesome as it got some miles on it - leaks, engine ticks, I think even the dreaded piston slap. I presume they are a split block design? That never seems to end well.

In the interim, here's something that may help with the leaks. I learned of this stuff from becoming a fan of a YT channel called Bus Grease Monkey from a guy in Tennessee who repairs/restores old Detroit Diesel-powered vehicles, mostly old buses and coach conversions. Detroits are notorious for leaks and he uses this stuff a lot to keep his shop and grounds relatively clean.

https://www.newpig.com/view-all-pig-mat-products/c/5183?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22264402694&gclid=CjwKCAiA2PrMBhA4EiwAwpHyC4Y8hrXc63qj2f4X7glKTTDKQiWBBQFxkJO7O2tf7SOV_4RYhEGzExoCGuMQAvD_BwE

tjc78 · February 25

Michaell said:
The Outback, at 81,000 miles, has developed a leak between the engine and transmission, enough that all of the seals need to be replaced. $2800 is the estimate, and the transmission has to be dropped to complete the work.

Grrr.

(and yes, I've been shopping, as well. My problem is that I don't really want anything I can afford, and I can't afford anything I really want)

tjc78 · February 25

It's 11 years old - unless it is an obscene leak, I'd leave it alone.

Sandman6472 · February 25

The Kona still has a small oil leak though they addressed it once already. Did quit for awhile but, it's back now. Just reminded the Mrs. and she's going to make an appointment to have it looked at. Hate when this happens but luckily it's still under warranty. No issues with mine and loving it. Only thing it needs is a bath but will take care of that sooner then later.

Gotta question though. Is this ceramic coating worth the price? Had it done on the last 2 vehicles but it was early on and pretty cheap. Now, they want crazy prices for it. But, want to protect the finish. Hopefully someone can help me here.

Sandman6472 · February 25

Going to a postal lunch at noon today in Boca Raton. A bunch of retirees are getting together so since I'm n/s today, why not go and see some old friends. I've been gone almost 16 years as of now, a long time. So glad I left but not in the way I was treated. And no word on our lawsuit that we eventually won. Nonsense why things should take so long to resolve. Don't expect much at all but deserve at least something for the hell they put us through. Luckily, I ended up in a new career but I need to be taken care of for the disruption of our life and how it affected me mentally as I went into a deep depression for months due to what they did. And the worst part is I did nothing wrong!

stickguy · February 25

You can DIY ceramic coating. It’s very easy. Leas effort than waxing.

tjc78 · February 25

Thoughts on Edmunds "Top Rated"?

Michaell · February 25

Unlike many of you, I don't have a spare car to use, so I feel it's important to keep the Subaru is as good a condition as I can. Could I let it go for now? I'm sure I could. Do I want to risk a catastrophic failure? I do not.

Yeah, $2800 could be a nice down payment on the next car, but as I noted above, I just can't find anything I like that's in my budget.

Maybe a Camry SE AWD like @nyccarguy has, but even that is around $35K. Ideally, I'd like be around $30K - and, she who must be obeyed (and doesn't much care what I do), has nixed the idea of something used.

explorerx4 · February 25

@michaell,
I'd get a 2nd opinion. There seen to be several Subaru indy repair shops in the Denver area.
I think that's where you are.
Here's a quick video about why it might cost so much.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/UpOuf6qpD4w

nyccarguy · February 25

Michaell said:
The Outback, at 81,000 miles, has developed a leak between the engine and transmission, enough that all of the seals need to be replaced. $2800 is the estimate, and the transmission has to be dropped to complete the work.

Grrr.

(and yes, I've been shopping, as well. My problem is that I don't really want anything I can afford, and I can't afford anything I really want)

That stinks. Dealer or an Independent shop? Can anything else be replaced preventatively while the transmission is out? I'd say get it taken care of and put the outback on notice.

stickguy · February 25

Classic decision point here. Either cut and run, or invest and keep. So if you are spending that kind of money do all the extra “easy while you are in there” items.

oldfarmer50 · February 25

qbrozen said:
If the weather ever cooperates, I may go check this out for him.
https://www.autoheadquartersinc.com/Inventory/Details/79534a6a-d48f-4c4d-bc33-20d61df05a59

You could do worse.

oldfarmer50 · February 25

Michaell said:
The Outback, at 81,000 miles, has developed a leak between the engine and transmission, enough that all of the seals need to be replaced. $2800 is the estimate, and the transmission has to be dropped to complete the work.

Grrr.

(and yes, I've been shopping, as well. My problem is that I don't really want anything I can afford, and I can't afford anything I really want)

That doesn’t sound too bad by today’s standards for a job that involved.

stickguy · February 25

I like the fit. Just needs to be a manual!

tjc78 · February 25

@stickguy said:
I like the fit. Just needs to be a manual!

My Aunt had a manual Fit. She loved it.

jmonroe1 · February 25

@Michaell said:
Unlike many of you, I don't have a spare car to use, so I feel it's important to keep the Subaru is as good a condition as I can. Could I let it go for now? I'm sure I could. Do I want to risk a catastrophic failure? I do not.

Yeah, $2800 could be a nice down payment on the next car, but as I noted above, I just can't find anything I like that's in my budget.

Maybe a Camry SE AWD like @nyccarguy has, but even that is around $35K. Ideally, I'd like be around $30K - and, she who must be obeyed (and doesn't much care what I do), has nixed the idea of something used.

——————————————————
I’m usually pretty conservative when it comes to maintenance but I’d have to see a LOT of drips before I’d spend $2800 to get it drip free. Watch for more drops and check the oil level every few days. If your engine is like most engines, you can go quite a few miles before having to drop that kind of money on a fix.

Remember, your car is 11 years old and if you made the fix how much longer do you want to keep it?

jmonroe

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

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