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Comments
A lot of those shops are great at doing the "gravy" jobs and routine service but when a problem is hard to figure out, guess who comes back to us?
Whereas one local dealer replaced the transmission on my 2000 EX V6 and left the filler cap off of the remanufactured tranny. I didn't find out about it until the car was in an accident and the repair shop told me about it. By the way, that repair shop was an independent recommended by the dealership.
So I contend that it's stereotyping to assume that the dealer service department will always provide better quality work, and that an independent will always provide inferior work. It depends on the dealer and on the independent... there are good and "not so good" in both groups.
Just make the choice that feels best to you. There's no need to make disparaging remarks about the quality of either type of mechanic or shop. As I said, that's just stereotyping.
And your very qualified and knowledgeable independent repair shop doesn't have to charge the often highly padded prices necessary to offset the marginally profitable activities of the rest of the dealership.
As I said, do what seems best to you. Regardless of what you insist is the only way to go, there are always very reasonable alternatives.
I'd like to add though that dealer techs, as employees of a business, run the range of marginal to exceptional in terms of competence.
If a "marginal" tech attends to the car, one probably gets marginal quality as well. Case in point - when dealer changed the run channel to correct (unsuccesfully) our 03 Accord's window noise, the tech created a "pimple" (ding from the inside) while working on the driver's door.
2 points against dealer on that one.
Challenge with dealer service is that one doesn't get to know, or specify, the tech.
A private tech, on the other hand, is essentially an entrepreneur who's out to create a reputation and thus has strong motivation to do a good job. If he/she has an official Honda repair manual, and solid references, I'd probably prefer him/her over the dealer tech, especially for out-of-warranty work.
Many dealerships provide high quality service overall. Others do not. The same can be said of independents. If you want the best service for your car, you owe it to yourself to do the research and find the most qualified and knowledgeable mechanics, rather than assuming that dealerships have a monopoly on such mechanics. As you said, in many cases the best mechanics cut their teeth at a dealership and then use their skills and growing reputation to start their own businesses.
Well at my last oil change the "technician" that worked on my car did not tighten the oil plug. There was a big puddle of oil on my garage floor after I left it sit for a week.
My mechanic would have never been so absent minded. So as talon95 said - do whatever you feel most comfortable doing and what has worked best for you in the past. I will be going to my usual mechanic for my 20K service. I am confident he will do a better job for less money than the dealer.
It is ridiculous to say that dealers are in any way, shape or form better than private repair shops. Like everything else in life, it depends on who does the work. (BTW Greg - the same goes for doctors!)
If you haven't tried your dealer's service department, please give them a chance.
I have heard of people having terrible experiences with their dealership's service, and I scrutinize dealer services myself. However, I have had nothing but TOP NOTCH service from my dealership.
From the way they open the glass door and I drive right inside the building (great for inclement weather) to the way they are very communicative throughout the experience, my dealership (Scholfield of Wichita KS) is absolutely amazing. They treat me as though I purchased an $80K++ exclusive automobile, and have done incredible service work for me. They even went out of their way with diagnostic inspection after my car was stolen after only 6 mos of ownership. I can't say enough good things about them, and their prices are FAIR. As far as I can tell, they also go by established labor standards, and even charge for fewer hours if the condition exists.
I realize my experiences may differ from the norm, but I encourage others to give them a chance. I can't tell you how comfortable my service staff makes the whole experience. Including how they always give me a free rental car whenever I visit, and I'm always in and out in my new premium rental within 20 minutes.
So, to combat blanket statements, please give them a chance--if for nothing more than a quote/diagnostic.
I guess I feel fortunate that I have a solid business relationship with my independent that includes mutual respect and appreciation. They are dedicated professionals, so gifts are not required to ensure their best quality. We are perfectly capable of expressing appreciation to each other in non-monetary ways.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Being Honda product owners, it's probably fair to say we selected Honda because their products were made right to start with.
That said, at least in my case, I expect to have minimal post-sale interaction with the dealer.
Creating and building relationships with dealers may be an acceptable tradeoff for buying a low-priced, marginally engineered car (or a high-maintenance aspiration car).
But a premium-priced mainstream car like an Accord ? I think not.
Hey, it's called free market. When the company doesn't allow competitive dealerships, then you have to go to one who will compete for the business.
The warranty work is paid by the company. The dealer is required to do that work. If they want to mistreat you as a customer, you certainly won't buy there the next time. And I will complain to Honda about the dealer's service.
In New Jersey there may be lots of competition among Honda dealers, but in some areas the monopoly system still is in place.
Free market.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My girlfriend took her 9 year old 140k mile Civic to a dealership for the first time ever since brand new with a check engine light and stalling after high speed. They stated good news mentioned $1500 (cat and two O2 sensors) but then stated all under an extended warranty. She picked the car up for $50 for various parts not covered by warranty and drove away smiling. She has returned for major services at 30k interval.
Here's a business policy that the truly exceptional dealership service department would subscribe to:
Treat all "warranty work" customers well, and keep your current sales customers AND win future sales customers.
I have an excellent example of why this works. 6 years ago, when I moved across town, I took my car (not a Honda) to a nearby dealership for warranty work. They treated me as well as the dealership from which I bought the car. And they were obviously interested in getting me as a sales customer, as I started getting lots of mailings from them for various sales. Believe me, had I decided to go with the same brand for my next car, that dealership would have been at the top of my list.
Sorry, Greg, you can say it over and over again, but I'm not buying it. Any service department that is run and managed by professionals would not discriminate against customers like that. Apparently, your impression is that if you don't have some kind of inroad with the service department (sales customer, a "known to tip and give gifts" customer), they'll treat you poorly, and somehow this is a sound and reasonable business practice??? What an sadly skewed view of how things should work!
The mechanics with whom I do business do their jobs because they have a good work ethic and pride in what they do. They don't separate people into categories of "deserves good, fast service" and "doesn't deserve good, fast service". They're professionals and don't require tips and gifts to establish a good working relationship with their customers. They're there to do a job and to build and maintain their good reputation, and this "have - have not" attitude that you seem to think is so fair and reasonable is exactly the wrong way to do this.
As I said, if the service department at your dealership truly displays this attitude, I wouldn't take my business there if they were the last Honda dealer on earth. Because if I don't deserve to be treated well as a customer, regardless of whether or not I bought my car there, their service department doesn't deserve my business, paid work, warranty work, ANY work. And I hope that such practices eventually go full circle and "reward" them with the reputation for poor customer service that such questionable business practices should earn them. If I were treated so poorly for these reasons, I'd tell everybody who would listen about it. And nothing damages a reputation more effectively than bad word of mouth.
And one final note... if dealership service departments really DO discriminate against customers as you suggest, that's the best argument yet to take your car to a qualified independent, who will treat everyone like a valued customer.
In the scenario that I described earlier (warranty work at a dealership that didn't sell me the car), I was not there as a "lowball buyer from another dealer", but they had no way of knowing that. Yet they treated me every bit as well as the selling dealer had. Wow, treating a customer promptly and courteously regardless of their previous business with you... what an amazing concept! Despite the fact that your dealership seems to be unwilling to do so, there are many, many dealers out there without such a "customer antagonistic" attitude.
So why your dealership's operation is "so stressed" that they're unable to treat all customers equitably is puzzling. After all, we're talking about Hondas, which have a great reputation for NOT requiring a lot of warranty work. I'm on my second Accord, and had to have warranty work done twice... both on the first one. My selling dealer's service department is very busy, but I never get the impression that they're "overly stressed".
So why is your dealership so "stressed"? Based on your reports on their business practices, I would guess a poor management philosophy and a sub-standard work ethic. The attitude of your service department towards customers is appalling.
And for the record, your "logic" is indeed scary.
Needless to say, 60 miles is way too far to drive for oil changes and other service. Luckily, a third dealer in Virginia is only a mile from my home and they are the ones who do all the service work on my car. Although I tried to work a deal with this dealer on the initial purchase, their price was too high so I didn't buy from them.
Anyway, whenever I show up for service, they treat me like a king (in and out quickly, never have to wait more than a day or two for an appointment). In fact, I don't even think that the service guys know (or even care for that matter) that I turned down the high priced offer from their sales department and bought the car from the other dealer 60 miles away. If they do know, they sure don't seem to care too much.
The good thing about where I live (Wash, DC Metro area) is that there are tons of Honda dealers and independent shops all competing for your business. If I were in a small town, maybe it would be a problem if I bought from one dealer and then went to a different dealer for service. But everything I'm hearing about dealer profits says that they're making most of their money from the service department and not the sales department. Most consumers are very savvy these days when it comes to auto buying, and as a result the sales depts don't make the kinds of profits they made years ago.
So, in my opinion, it really is in the best interest of the dealership's service department to welcome as many customers as they can without regard to where they purchased their cars in the first place.
"My tokens of appreciation have nothing to do with my standing on the service list. I simply appreciate their courtesy, concern, quality of service, and professionalism. They treat me "VERY WELL", and I return that professional treatment by purchasing all my vehicles from the dealership. Yes, there is the possibility that I could purchase a Honda cheaper at another dealer, but I could never duplicate the service from my dealer. They are simply "OUTSTANDING"!-----"
"... my standing on the service list... the service from my dealer... " Hmmm... lots of information and claims about your dealership.
This is as much as about your dealership and your relationship with them as anything else. So spare me the accusations of "jumping to conclusions".
You have a nice day too.
taking them for a 'ride' at the same time.
In Tires, Tires, Tires,
this fluffing story has been posted:
driftracer "Tires, tires, tires" Mar 12, 2004 1:44pm
Makes one wonder when a business person of any kind is really
supernice to customers, just how nice are they being...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Years ago, car dealerships HATED warranty work. It didn't pay nearly as well as regular "customer pay" work and the customers were usually more demanding. The domestics fared the worst, trying to fix rattles etc. As I understand it, things have improved a bit in recent years.
I once heard the owner of a small town Buick dealership tell a customer..." If that mega-Buick dealership was good enough to sell you the car, they ought to be good enough to do your %#@$ warranty work!"
" Well...they sold me the car for less. They are 30 miles away and it's not convenient for me to drive there"
" You should have thought about that before you cut my throat for 100.00...goodbye"
I would like to think these days have ended.
As Bd21 points out, dealers today are surveyed by their customers who have had warranty work done and are held strictly accountable. I'm sure this came as a result of mistreatment in the past.
Only a short sighted dealer would treat a warranty customer who bought elsewhere in a second rate fashion.
Still, I'll go to bat for any of my customers who have bought a car from me in cases of special requests, help on out of warranty repairs etc.
I think that's worth something too.
It's now a Mexican restaurant.
There's a topic over in M&R just for this debate.
Dealer vs Independent Shop?
Please take your comments concerning this topic there.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But now I found another defect, my trunk latch inside the car doesn't work. key lock mechanism seems to be stuck in the lock position even thought i put in the key and move it from lock to the unlock position.
I am getting this rattling noises when I push on the acceelarator on the freeway.
Lastly, when I reverse out of the driveway and then put it in drive and drive away. I get this grinding feel like the brake is rubbing against something or a mud guard. The only thing is that i don't have mud guards. Any takes???
As soon as I turn the key to start the car, there is sometimes a teeth gnashing sound, like a chkkkk, and then the car starts fine. This happens infrequently, so I am hesistating going to the dealer, since I may not be able to reproduce the sound there.
As you aware of any issues with the 2003 starters? Is there any TSB or recall? If so, please let me know.