thanks for the help. i will get someone to look at the car.
the saab dealer offered me 3700 for my car. the honda dealers have offered a little more, if i buy a honda. my choice for 30k and my car is a new accord or subaru or the one year old/rental saab.
I just had the luxury of purchasing a 9-3. Working for an automotive supplier, GM handed us a supplier discount. Coupled with $2000 TD Visa GM$ the after tax price was $36,341 CDN. (Base 9-3 with CD, leather and s.roof)
Had the car for 1 week, taken it camping. Talk about storage room.
Performance on single lane highways in Ontario is unbelievable. Passing cars was never a problem. Power to spare.
Wanted a BMW 323 at first, but cost about 10K more than the 9-3 with the same features. No way Bimmer is 10K better car. Plus rear wheel drive in winter is just awful in Ontario.
So far no regrets, but then again only 800 km and my other car is a Sunfire.
By th etime one options out a 3 series BMW to compare with the standard equipment on the 9-3, the cost differential between the models widens to almost 5K. Further, the markup over invoice on BMWs is usally much highe than for SAABs. I concur with your assessment that BMW is worthless in winter snow storms and not worth thousands more than a 9-3.
Edmunds Apex L8 host closed the SAAB Lovers Forum under sedans. The New SAAB Lovers Forum is located att he very end of the sedan foums list. Thanks for trying to wreck our SAABism cafe Edmunds.
rfellman, I took a look at Sedans to see what had happened to your Saab discussion. We must freeze topics with over 500 posts they can become unstable. Many hosts start looking for a good place to break once the number of posts reaches 500.
Unfortunately, every new discussion is placed in numeric order, based on the date the discussion was created, so new discussions are on the end of the list. When you logon, your posts are already in numeric order.
You can reorder your own list by clicking on Last Post which is at the top of the topic list. This displays the post in order of the date the last post was added. If the Saab discussion stays as active as you think it will, you'll probably find it on the first page once you re-order.
I have a grip on "tongue in cheek" references to Edmund's Menace. My objection to limiting the forum just to a particular model vs the whole brand including defunct models. My posts are seldom intended to be taken literally, but thank you for paying me such homeage.
OK, I guess I was expecting tons of advice to come pouring in from all of you Saab lovers out there.
What's a realistic price for the 9-3 or the 9-3SE in relation to the invoice price? Any thoughts on leasing vs. buying - based on your personal experience? How likely am I to get a good trade in value for my 95 Honda Civic from a Saab dealer? What the story with the tires -- are they good or not in snowy weather?
I'm based in Northern New Jersey (no jokes, please), so if you have any good or bad dealer stories, please share them.
Here is the start to all kinds of info good or bad to your question.
I leased a 9-3 for seven months before crashing it out in the CA desert near Death Valley. I flipped the car several times and crawled out of the wreck with no more than some abrasions to an arm and a lot of stitches above the eye.
Saab's are really good cars in some very specific areas. The engine is really fun do push through its paces. There are very few engines near the 9-3's price range that give its fun to drive factor. The turbo engines are well thought out and worked on over a number of years. The suspension is not.
Safety for a Saab definitely exceeds anything from Japan or the U.S. in its price range. Volvo is Saabs only contender but then they are usually several grand more.
There are a couple of areas that Saab's are not so good at and that is in the area of long term resale value. They are a great car to own and drive but they tend to be brutally punished in the resale market. If you plan to purchase one after your Honda you need to realize and accept the trade-off your accepting.
Saabs do not depreciate well and you need to make your decission accepting the added fun to drive factor and their uniqueness over a Honda. These are not cars for the masses, although Saab probably wishes they were. They have tremendous cargo capacity near almost any wagon you'd choose but with an engine that'll beat the pants off most any other stock sedan.
Generally speaking Saab dealerships are independents that wouldn't have much use for your used Honda. It really isn't their kind of market. I'd get there quote on your car but I'd bet you'd do better just to sell it yourself first. The Saab dealerships I've visited here on the West Coast really only sell used Swedish cars or Europeans.
While Saabs in Canada are sold exclusively through Saab Saturn Isuzu dealerships, AFIK they do not have the "contractural requirement to sell at list" with Saab as they do with Saturns. That said, Saab in the USA cut the dealer markup in half when they priced the 9-3 and 9-5, relative to the 900 and 9000. And when adjusted for currency and equipment (Saab in Canada have seat heaters standard), the list price in Canada is very close to invoice in the USA. Even so, a saleperson at SSI of Thornhill told me that they discount the list price of the Saabs (although it is still a fixed price, no haggle policy.)
Hmmmmm, from the information Kapila provided, I think we can calculate a rough Canadian Invoice price.
He paid $36,341 after taxes for an 9-3 with CD, Leather and Sunroof. This price is also after a $2,000 rebate with a GM Visa Card.
So... (Pre-Tax Price - $2,000 Rebate) * 1.15 Canadian Taxes = $36,341 After Tax
Solving for Pre-Tax Price before tax and the rebate gives us: $33,600. I am assuming this is close to invoice (i.e. that GM offers its suppliers invoice price), although invoice could be a little lower if GM is trying to squeeze some contribution out of these sales. Alternatively, GM could be selling this below invoice, but still above their cost.
This car lists for $37,320 in Canada (Car, sun, CD, Leather, delivery, air tax). This implies that dealers receive $3,720 above invoice (before any additional rebates) - about 10% of MSRP.
Re: #378 that said; "He paid $36,341 after taxes for an 9-3 with CD, Leather and Sunroof. This price is also after a $2,000 rebate with a GM Visa Card."
This seemed interesting so I checked out GM's web site and did see a GM Visa Card, but did see a GM MasterCard. However the MasterCard application says that the rebate is not applicable on Saturn and Saab purchases/leases. The Visa does however? One bummer I saw even if the rebate could be used on Saab purchases as well is that you can only earn up to $500/year (for up to 7 years before the credits start expiring) so the most I could save since I plan to purchase this year is $500 (and only if I put $10,000 on it prior to purchase of the car).
Hi there ladies and gentlemen, I'm a new SAAB owner though I've been dreaming of one for years.
I leased a 9-3 convertible a couple of months ago for an incredible deal ($0 down, $440/month). When I say 0 down I mean 0, not even tag fees, walked in there picked it up, took off. Not bad for a $40,000 car. The trick: I had a savvy businessman negotiating for me and a smart salesman at the dealership who didn't want to loose the deal.
Anyway, I'm aware of almost all the published shortcomings of SAABs but I'm still simply in love with this car. The overall experience of getting in this baby every morning, taking the roof down and feeling the G's it produces is nothing short of spectacular.
After almost 3 months and 3,000 miles the car is getting even faster and the good brakes saved my butt more than once in near fender-benders.
The only issue: steering-since the first week of driving I noticed that I had to keep the steering wheel slightly to the left to keep the car going straight. Depending on the speed and road I was on, the phenomenon was sometimes less and sometimes more obvious. I took the car to the dealer twice. They put it on the computer and it read dead-center (twice). The SAAB specialist claimed this was a torque-steer issue which SAABs are notorious for. Incidentally as I was pulling out of the dealership another brand new 9-3 conv. just like mine pulled in with the exact same issue.
Can someone enlighten me on this please? I thought torque-steer effects are seen only during acceleration. Is this the norm for 9-3s or is there something wrong with these cars?
I am not expert but here is my two cents. I do think that the torque steer is more pronounced on convertibles due to the structure being less rigid . I have a little bit of torque steer as well but it appears that the auto journalists notice them more in the convertibles. My steering wheel needs to be turned right slightly to go strait but I attributed it to the road. If you checked it out twice and nothing was found to be wrong, I wouldn't worry about it. I've had similar problems with other makes and they didn't turn out to be any problems when they were checked out to be fine. The tire wear was normal after 20K miles and I was satisfied with that.
Spent part of the holiday weekend in downtown Milwaukee, and with temperatures in the 90's, had the ac on all the time. Does anyone else find the ac compressor to be especially noisy (whiny), especially when in 1st through 3rd gears and backing off of the gas pedal? Found the ac's drag on performance when in 1st and 2nd to be irritating. After the turbo kicks in OK, but until it does, the car just seems weak. Under these conditions, also seemed necessary to wind each gear out a little more to make for smooth shifting.
Or maybe I'm just looking for any reason to criticize. There was a time when I thought I just had to have a 9-3. I researched, read, listened, analyzed and finally convinced my wife. Needless to say, I'm no longer quite so smitten.
I was browsing thru the Consumer Report magazine at the store and I was surprised to see them trashing the 9-3. It seems that they all got used to the word "quirky" which I don't even know how it applies to the 9-3!!!
It seems that the car "experts" are running out of things to say and they make things up. At best they are very subjective "experts". I am an "expert" myself since I drive a lot. What counts the most is the feeling I get from the car. I don't drive at 100 mph so I don't care how it handles at 100 mph. I don't take stiff turns at bullet-speed because I don't want to die so I don't give a rats [non-permissible content removed] about the benchmarks.
I live in a very affluent city where Boxsters are the norm and I can tell you that the 9-3 with the top down is the best looking 4-seat convertible in the market. the looks I get justify that (and they're not looking at me-I'm an ugly troll!)
Anyway, for what is worth, I am one super happy 9-3 conv owner and I can't wait until the Viggen comes out in conv. in a couple of years.
I too live in town full of Boxsters, but a Saab here is only slightly more unusual than a Honda.
Personaly I hate the word "quirky" that the automotive press always seems to pull out to describe any Saab. Other than the stupid difference of a key mounted between the seats what are they talking about?
I read two major automotive mags from cover to cover every month and to be honest they say exactly the same sort of things about every car they review. (Now isn't that amazing!?..Huh) These writers are totally myopic and without real-life long term daily ownership experiences of the cars they so glibly review. I wonder how many years it's been since any of them have regularly driven and owned a car that was not less than two years old?
If you really want to know what the word "quirky means in automotive design you should take a closer look at some of the current French designs. Older Saabs seem to have gotten this tag word attched to them and it still sticks but for the life of me I don't really understand why.
You guys may have read a few of "THORN's" postingings on the Swedish wagons reviewed in C&D's "Luxo-Wagons Compared" article in the June issue. Needless to say, this totally inane article chose to compare equally the BMW 528i, MB's 320, Audi A6 Avant Quatro against both the Saab 9-5 and Volvo V70R AWD. Of the three german wagons only the Audi was nearly the same price as the Sweeds. The BMW and MB were nearly $10k more than any of the others.
Now what kind of comparison is it when you ask the real consumer "Would you spend $10K more for this car" if in fact they only have a set amount of dollars to spend for their car. People shop for the best car they can afford given the dollars they have to spend not becasue a review lists a $10K more expensive car as the "best."
Give me the extra $10K and I'll throw it into one of the Sweeds on after market goodies that'd guarantee to blow the doors off any of the German showroom Luxo-wagon.
I believe SAAB is an acquired taste. I really like the fact that my car looks nothing like the others on the road. I am leasing mine but intend to buy the car at the end of 3yr lease. I leased due to lack of confidence on Saab reliability but am beginning to think that they've got it straigt now.
I just got back from the local Saab dealer...35,000 mile service on my '97 900 SE (no problems to date except for a front right dash speaker that rattles when the engine is cold).
They had a new Viggen on the floor...SWEEEEEET! Despite the electric blue paint, I don't know how long I can resist?!? Has anyone purchased one yet? I'm afraid to take a test drive for fear that I may have to take it home.
Buy your Saab in three year, tell us all about it and I'll follow in your footsteps if you don't drop out of sight.
Keep posting and don't lie about your ownership experiences. Saab is a great car but its long term reliability is not yet decided. If it is a DOG you'll let us know soon enough.
The test for steering alignment is on a straight and level interstate (or other divided highway). Saabs and most other cars will "follow the crown" in the road. If the car drifts right from the right lane, but drifts left from the left lane, then all is in order. If the car drifts to the same direction from both lanes, then the next step is to swap the wheels and tires left-to-right. If the drift switches direction, then one or more tires is defective.
Presumably the inflation pressures have been equalized.
I had the good fortune to have a Viggen over a weekend to prepare an evaluation for the Saab Club Magazine. For anyone who can get past the price (initial cost, requirement for premium fuel, and $1000 a pop for a set of tires every-so-very-often), and the need to pick and choose ones parking locations (That low front air dam WILL clear a universal standard parking stop or 4X4 timber, but not much else), this car is TERRIFIC! Note that the Model Year 2000 (and beyond) Viggens will be available in 5-door and convertible versions, and in silver, black, and "Monte-Carlo" yellow as well as "electric blue". Seat accent colors are blue, charcoal, and "ochra" (orange) depending on the exterior color.
O.K., I'll keep you updated. At this point I've got almost 17,000 miles and I've had if for 14 months, so two more years left on the lease. Just an oil change at 10K service so far (I do wonder why the oil change interval is so long) and a flat tire. Oh, and I use 89 octane gas because I don't think I need the "maximum" performance out of 93 octane.
I recently drove the Viggen at a invited test drive program that Saab put together. I showed up, more excited to find that they had a 9-5 wagon there initially (I current drive a '95 Volvo 850 Turbo wagon, which I adore), but came away, madly in love with the Viggen. As I was returning to drop it off, I was so hooked that I had to take it out for another 20 minutes! It was that good!
Great seats, fantastic handling, minimal turbo lag, and unlike an M3, you can actually take it on ski trips thanks to front wheel drive! I think a carbon fiber dash panel would look particularly good in it too. My only gripe was that the footwell is a little narrow, but trust me, I can get used to it!
In fact, I've placed an order for a blue 5 door (expected in Nov. or Dec.), and I can't wait!
The Viggen is the best Saab in years! I reciently drove it in Sweden on a closed course It handles great! I went at 145mph and I was not nervious. I had complete control. Boy have Saabs changed!!!
I don't think I have the cash for a 9-3 Viggen. Darn. Well I think I am going to by a regular 9-3. Anybody know of any good lease deals? Is the SE model worth the extra cash? Anyways, Saabs Rule!!!
I had my heart set on a Saab 900 SE Turbo coupe, but they are no longer available. If I want a 2-door model, then my only option is the base 9-3 coupe. Here's my dilema and question: Given Saab's relatively high depreciation rate, I could pick up a used (97 or 98) 900 se coupe for a good deal. Are the 1000 improvements on the new 9-3 really that substantial that I should forget the 900 and go for the 9-3? It won't be as loaded as the 900 se, and will cost more money.
I picked up my Viggen last week and have put 250 miles on it. This is my 5th new Saab my last was a 94 Aero. I hated to see the Aero go (103,000 very happy miles) but I have to say the Viggen is faster, firmer and much better looking. I also drive a 98 E 420 Benz so comfort and space was not an issue for my new purchase. The Viggen however has lots of storage in a huge trunk and decent passenger space in the rear seats. The body style, brakes, wheels, tires, interior and turbo are excellent. Overall handling very good. Ride comfort average. The Viggen has a little torque steer but absolutely no turbo lag. Overall I would rate this car an 8.5, the M3 may be a tad faster here and there, but the Viggen still rockets from about 25-85 (real world driving)with a top speed of 155.
I'm in the final stages of getting a 9-3 Convertible this week. I'm completely intrigued that you got yours with $0 down. To get my $443/mo. lease I'm paying close to $4k down. How did you get them to pay sales tax, bank lease fee ($595), not to mention car registrations fees!!
Please share your secrets and congrats on a great deal.
The Saab national lease deal has the base convertible at $399/month plus $3393 up front payment for 36 months. That doesn't include taxes. Make sure you are getting a good deal. Check out SaabUSA.com for details. Good luck.
The 9-3 coupe base has the turbo engine your looking for. The SE 9-3 is a trim level but all 9-3's have turbo engines. The are a few goodies that you get with the SE like automatic dual climate control and always leather as well as a couple of other dodads. They say that there were a lot of other upgrades to the 9-3 over the 900 but I'm not sure I could really tell you what it means to the average driver.
I just leased a new 9-3 last Wednesday. It was the easiest car transaction I have ever had. I drove from the San Francisco Bay Area to Lake Tahoe Thursday and the car performed great! I did have a problem with the roof lock sticking when trying to lock it a few times but otherwise the car was more than expected. Even at 7000 feet the car had lots of power.
Anyone have an Automatic trans. Turbo? How is it compared to the manual? Is it any slower at the stop lights? Also, how is the sound system on the BASE 9-3? It only has 4 speakers and 80 watts. If I get a 9-3, i dont want to pay the extra cash for a SE, and I will lease the car. Therefore, I will not be able to upgrade the sound system. Does it need to be upgraded?
In my leased 9-3, I upgraded the dash speakers. They are the weak link in the base stereo, and you can replace them easily. If you turn the car in at the end of your lease you can pop the original speakers back in. For less than $100, you can make a significant improvement in sound quality.
So you are saying that the sound system sucks. At the dealer they car up grade the system to that of an SE. This will add 2 more speakers, a sub, and an amp. It costs $400, but when put into the lease, it will come out cheaper than buying speakers, and it will sound better.
I just added new front speakers to my car yesterday. (PPI35.1 3.5" coax at 109.99 CAD$) They sound a hell of a lot better than the paper speakers SAAB uses with their make shift tweaters and all. I went to the dealership and they said it would cost $272 CAD for the 5 1/2" door subs, plus another $800 CAD for the amp. I said @!>? you. I found out that the systems doesn't add much to the car. You can add door speakers to the existing system without the amp with almost the same result in sound, plus better speakers than SAAB offers.
Well, I went in to lease a VW and walked out with a SAAB. Go Figure! Anyway, I got the 9-3 SE 5-door but it doesn't have a CD player. How difficult will it be to put one in?
Maven, I've seen the new national leases and you are right I got a steal walking away with $0 down. Basically what I did is I had my boss negotiate the deal between 2 dealers (literally real time with 2 phones-auction style). It's amazing how a dealer will act when he knows you aren't bluffing. The $0 down was non-negotiable and it was a condition for s to even talk to a dealer. It turns out that SAAB raised the price the dealer pays in Nov. 98. If you assume 1 month of lag time between order and delivery (for the dealer), any SAAB 9-3 conv. the dealer got on the lot in 99 carried about $2000 extra base price.
My 9-3 conv. came in the dealership Oct. 98 and basically my dealer used that fact to lower the price. I can tell you he had to go and check with his manager more than twice and I also was limited to inventory (I was going for a red SE and ended up with black 9-3 which turns out to be better looking anyway). The key is to purchase from an area with at least 3 SAAB dealerships. SAAB 9-3 conv. is not a high-volume car and a smart dealer will never turn down a deal if they sense the competition. Once you locate such a situation it helps to reverse the rules. What we did was refuse to even show up to the dealership unless the dealer talked numbers. They both had to call back and verify we were for real-we called from a reputable company and my boss is the CEO so he had credibility. Out of 3 dealers one tried to play the "come down and we'll talk" game so he was put aside. You'd think that a dealer selling a $40K car would use different techniques than your corner Mitsubishi shop but he was in the heart of the metropolitan area so he wasn't desperate. Another tip is to opt for a SAAB-only dealership meaning they *need* to move inventory. The dealer who lost the deal was a Buick-VW-something-something-SAAB dealer so SAAB was not his priority.
Bottom line, the trick is in reversing the rules and hunt down the dealer as opposed to becoming dealer-bait. Again read these numbers: Brand new SAAB 9-3 conv. $0 down and $443/month. People hesitate to believe me but it's the truth. And what a sweet deal it is for a great car.
Here's my 2 cents on the base 9-3 conv. sound system. It doesn't suck but it could be much better. The bass tolerance is weak and the system suffers when driving with the top down. Of course it depends on the kind of music you play. If you like loud music and lots of bass-kick the sound system leaves a lot to be desired. However at lower volumes I find it rather crisp and pleasant. My friend has a new Porsche Boxster and I can tell you the base SAAB sound system is much superior. The SE model has the 2 door-mounted extra speakers which definitely help a lot but I don't think it justifies the price hike.
Someone please tell me that this isn't going to be a trend... Have a 99 9-3 SE 5 speed with 12,500 miles. At 1200 miles I walked into my garage and was treated to a small pool of oily fluid -- clutch fluid, I find out from my dealer, that resulted from a secondary plug not being properly installed at the factory. Fixed under warranty, and I wasn't too put out given the great dealer service.
8000 miles later, I have another pool on my garage floor. Still oily, now a different color. Turns out this time a seal on the power steering pump went blooey. Again, good dealer service, and fixed under warranty. But I'm getting less happy.
Now, the auto climate control display is starting to go out. It works fine, but from time to time the numbers just disappear and the display simply lights up random LEDs.
Don't get me wrong, I love the car. I would just love it more if it had the reliability of my old Integra GS-R or my wife's Maxima. I have now been to the dealer three times for repairs to this car in one year -- three times more than the Max and Integra in a total of five years of ownership.
The deal descibed by tiger2 in post 414 looks pretty good to me -- it is very close to the GM employee price, according to the ads run in GM's internal newspaper. One question -- is that the SE with the 4 cyl., or with the 6?
I've ordered a four door Viggen (2000 model, scheduled to arrive in November), and thanks to a connection via a friend, the salesman said he'd give me $500 off the MSRP. Does anyone think there is any way to get more of a discount on this car? I'm assuming that like an M3, or CLK430, the relative rarity of the car will make any further bargaining impossible. Since I live in New England, where Saabs sell well, this will make it even more difficult. Any advice?? Also, how much does Saab charge for a steel wheel/snow tire package? (I'm guessing about $900) These will be critical in the winter, since those 17 inch tires will be useless in the snow.
Comments
the saab dealer offered me 3700 for my car. the honda dealers have offered a little more, if i buy a honda. my choice for 30k and my car is a new accord or subaru or the one year old/rental saab.
Had the car for 1 week, taken it camping. Talk about storage room.
Performance on single lane highways in Ontario is unbelievable. Passing cars was never a problem. Power to spare.
Wanted a BMW 323 at first, but cost about 10K more than the 9-3 with the same features. No way Bimmer is 10K better car. Plus rear wheel drive in winter is just awful in Ontario.
So far no regrets, but then again only 800 km and my other car is a Sunfire.
Unfortunately, every new discussion is placed in numeric order, based on the date the discussion was created, so new discussions are on the end of the list. When you logon, your posts are already in numeric order.
You can reorder your own list by clicking on Last Post which is at the top of the topic list. This displays the post in order of the date the last post was added. If the Saab discussion stays as active as you think it will, you'll probably find it on the first page once you re-order.
I hope this is helpful.
carlady/host
Thanks for the explanation and the tip.
rfellman,
re: "Edmunds Menance Strikes.. blah, blah, blah."
get a grip.
What's a realistic price for the 9-3 or the 9-3SE in relation to the invoice price? Any thoughts on leasing vs. buying - based on your personal experience? How likely am I to get a good trade in value for my 95 Honda Civic from a Saab dealer? What the story with the tires -- are they good or not in snowy weather?
I'm based in Northern New Jersey (no jokes, please), so if you have any good or bad dealer stories, please share them.
I leased a 9-3 for seven months before crashing it out in the CA desert near Death Valley. I flipped the car several times and crawled out of the wreck with no more than some abrasions to an arm and a lot of stitches above the eye.
Saab's are really good cars in some very specific areas. The engine is really fun do push through its paces. There are very few engines near the 9-3's price range that give its fun to drive factor. The turbo engines are well thought out and worked on over a number of years. The suspension is not.
Safety for a Saab definitely exceeds anything from Japan or the U.S. in its price range. Volvo is Saabs only contender but then they are usually several grand more.
There are a couple of areas that Saab's are not so good at and that is in the area of long term resale value. They are a great car to own and drive but they tend to be brutally punished in the resale market. If you plan to purchase one after your Honda you need to realize and accept the trade-off your accepting.
Saabs do not depreciate well and you need to make your decission accepting the added fun to drive factor and their uniqueness over a Honda. These are not cars for the masses, although Saab probably wishes they were. They have tremendous cargo capacity near almost any wagon you'd choose but with an engine that'll beat the pants off most any other stock sedan.
Generally speaking Saab dealerships are independents that wouldn't have much use for your used Honda. It really isn't their kind of market. I'd get there quote on your car but I'd bet you'd do better just to sell it yourself first. The Saab dealerships I've visited here on the West Coast really only sell used Swedish cars or Europeans.
Best Wishes on Your Trek!
Saab is a great car for you.
Bummer about the 15% PST/GST, though.
He paid $36,341 after taxes for an 9-3 with CD, Leather and Sunroof. This price is also after a $2,000 rebate with a GM Visa Card.
So... (Pre-Tax Price - $2,000 Rebate) * 1.15 Canadian Taxes = $36,341 After Tax
Solving for Pre-Tax Price before tax and the rebate gives us: $33,600. I am assuming this is close to invoice (i.e. that GM offers its suppliers invoice price), although invoice could be a little lower if GM is trying to squeeze some contribution out of these sales. Alternatively, GM could be selling this below invoice, but still above their cost.
This car lists for $37,320 in Canada (Car, sun, CD, Leather, delivery, air tax). This implies that dealers receive $3,720 above invoice (before any additional rebates) - about 10% of MSRP.
Interesting.
Cheers
This seemed interesting so I checked out GM's web site and did see a GM Visa Card, but did see a GM MasterCard. However the MasterCard application says that the rebate is not applicable on Saturn and Saab purchases/leases. The Visa does however? One bummer I saw even if the rebate could be used on Saab purchases as well is that you can only earn up to $500/year (for up to 7 years before the credits start expiring) so the most I could save since I plan to purchase this year is $500 (and only if I put $10,000 on it prior to purchase of the car).
Jeff
I leased a 9-3 convertible a couple of months ago for an incredible deal ($0 down, $440/month). When I say 0 down I mean 0, not even tag fees, walked in there picked it up, took off. Not bad for a $40,000 car. The trick: I had a savvy businessman negotiating for me and a smart salesman at the dealership who didn't want to loose the deal.
Anyway, I'm aware of almost all the published shortcomings of SAABs but I'm still simply in love with this car. The overall experience of getting in this baby every morning, taking the roof down and feeling the G's it produces is nothing short of spectacular.
After almost 3 months and 3,000 miles the car is getting even faster and the good brakes saved my butt more than once in near fender-benders.
The only issue: steering-since the first week of driving I noticed that I had to keep the steering wheel slightly to the left to keep the car going straight. Depending on the speed and road I was on, the phenomenon was sometimes less and sometimes more obvious. I took the car to the dealer twice. They put it on the computer and it read dead-center (twice). The SAAB specialist claimed this was a torque-steer issue which SAABs are notorious for. Incidentally as I was pulling out of the dealership another brand new 9-3 conv. just like mine pulled in with the exact same issue.
Can someone enlighten me on this please? I thought torque-steer effects are seen only during acceleration. Is this the norm for 9-3s or is there something wrong with these cars?
Thanks for your responses.
Cheers,
Vike
Or maybe I'm just looking for any reason to criticize. There was a time when I thought I just had to have a 9-3. I researched, read, listened, analyzed and finally convinced my wife. Needless to say, I'm no longer quite so smitten.
I was browsing thru the Consumer Report magazine at the store and I was surprised to see them trashing the 9-3. It seems that they all got used to the word "quirky" which I don't even know how it applies to the 9-3!!!
It seems that the car "experts" are running out of things to say and they make things up. At best they are very subjective "experts". I am an "expert" myself since I drive a lot. What counts the most is the feeling I get from the car. I don't drive at 100 mph so I don't care how it handles at 100 mph. I don't take stiff turns at bullet-speed because I don't want to die so I don't give a rats [non-permissible content removed] about the benchmarks.
I live in a very affluent city where Boxsters are the norm and I can tell you that the 9-3 with the top down is the best looking 4-seat convertible in the market. the looks I get justify that (and they're not looking at me-I'm an ugly troll!)
Anyway, for what is worth, I am one super happy 9-3 conv owner and I can't wait until the Viggen comes out in conv. in a couple of years.
Cheers
Personaly I hate the word "quirky" that the automotive press always seems to pull out to describe any Saab. Other than the stupid difference of a key mounted between the seats what are they talking about?
I read two major automotive mags from cover to cover every month and to be honest they say exactly the same sort of things about every car they review. (Now isn't that amazing!?..Huh) These writers are totally myopic and without real-life long term daily ownership experiences of the cars they so glibly review. I wonder how many years it's been since any of them have regularly driven and owned a car that was not less than two years old?
If you really want to know what the word "quirky means in automotive design you should take a closer look at some of the current French designs. Older Saabs seem to have gotten this tag word attched to them and it still sticks but for the life of me I don't really understand why.
You guys may have read a few of "THORN's" postingings on the Swedish wagons reviewed in C&D's "Luxo-Wagons Compared" article in the June issue. Needless to say, this totally inane article chose to compare equally the BMW 528i, MB's 320, Audi A6 Avant Quatro against both the Saab 9-5 and Volvo V70R AWD. Of the three german wagons only the Audi was nearly the same price as the Sweeds. The BMW and MB were nearly $10k more than any of the others.
Now what kind of comparison is it when you ask the real consumer "Would you spend $10K more for this car" if in fact they only have a set amount of dollars to spend for their car. People shop for the best car they can afford given the dollars they have to spend not becasue a review lists a $10K more expensive car as the "best."
Give me the extra $10K and I'll throw it into one of the Sweeds on after market goodies that'd guarantee to blow the doors off any of the German showroom Luxo-wagon.
They had a new Viggen on the floor...SWEEEEEET! Despite the electric blue paint, I don't know how long I can resist?!? Has anyone purchased one yet? I'm afraid to take a test drive for fear that I may have to take it home.
Buy your Saab in three year, tell us all about it and I'll follow in your footsteps if you don't drop out of sight.
Keep posting and don't lie about your ownership experiences. Saab is a great car but its long term reliability is not yet decided. If it is a DOG you'll let us know soon enough.
Presumably the inflation pressures have been equalized.
Great seats, fantastic handling, minimal turbo lag, and unlike an M3, you can actually take it on ski trips thanks to front wheel drive! I think a carbon fiber dash panel would look particularly good in it too. My only gripe was that the footwell is a little narrow, but trust me, I can get used to it!
In fact, I've placed an order for a blue 5 door (expected in Nov. or Dec.), and I can't wait!
Regarding the Viggen, the price sticker is $38K isn't it? That's even less than the 9-3 conv. though I can see the tire cost mounting up.
Does anyone know how many of the 1000 USA Viggens have already being sold?
9-3. Anybody know of any good lease deals? Is the SE model worth the extra cash? Anyways, Saabs Rule!!!
Here's my dilema and question:
Given Saab's relatively high depreciation rate, I could pick up a used (97 or 98) 900 se coupe for a good deal. Are the 1000 improvements on the new 9-3 really that substantial that I should forget the 900 and go for the 9-3? It won't be as loaded as the 900 se, and will cost more money.
I'm in the final stages of getting a 9-3 Convertible this week. I'm completely intrigued that you got yours with $0 down. To get my $443/mo. lease I'm paying close to $4k down. How did you get them to pay sales tax, bank lease fee ($595), not to mention car registrations fees!!
Please share your secrets and congrats on a great deal.
The 9-3 coupe base has the turbo engine your looking for. The SE 9-3 is a trim level but all 9-3's have turbo engines. The are a few goodies that you get with the SE like automatic dual climate control and always leather as well as a couple of other dodads. They say that there were a lot of other upgrades to the 9-3 over the 900 but I'm not sure I could really tell you what it means to the average driver.
For less than $100, you can make a significant improvement in sound quality.
My 9-3 conv. came in the dealership Oct. 98 and basically my dealer used that fact to lower the price. I can tell you he had to go and check with his manager more than twice and I also was limited to inventory (I was going for a red SE and ended up with black 9-3 which turns out to be better looking anyway). The key is to purchase from an area with at least 3 SAAB dealerships. SAAB 9-3 conv. is not a high-volume car and a smart dealer will never turn down a deal if they sense the competition. Once you locate such a situation it helps to reverse the rules. What we did was refuse to even show up to the dealership unless the dealer talked numbers. They both had to call back and verify we were for real-we called from a reputable company and my boss is the CEO so he had credibility. Out of 3 dealers one tried to play the "come down and we'll talk" game so he was put aside. You'd think that a dealer selling a $40K car would use different techniques than your corner Mitsubishi shop but he was in the heart of the metropolitan area so he wasn't desperate. Another tip is to opt for a SAAB-only dealership meaning they *need* to move inventory. The dealer who lost the deal was a Buick-VW-something-something-SAAB dealer so SAAB was not his priority.
Bottom line, the trick is in reversing the rules and hunt down the dealer as opposed to becoming dealer-bait. Again read these numbers: Brand new SAAB 9-3 conv. $0 down and $443/month. People hesitate to believe me but it's the truth. And what a sweet deal it is for a great car.
said they could lease me a 99 SAAB 9-5 SE.
$408 12 miles a year.
$427 15 miles a year.
No money down and tax included.
What do you think?
8000 miles later, I have another pool on my garage floor. Still oily, now a different color. Turns out this time a seal on the power steering pump went blooey. Again, good dealer service, and fixed under warranty. But I'm getting less happy.
Now, the auto climate control display is starting to go out. It works fine, but from time to time the numbers just disappear and the display simply lights up random LEDs.
Don't get me wrong, I love the car. I would just love it more if it had the reliability of my old Integra GS-R or my wife's Maxima. I have now been to the dealer three times for repairs to this car in one year -- three times more than the Max and Integra in a total of five years of ownership.
So, can I expect this trend to continue?