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I bought my '00 VW GTI 1.8T brand new a couple of years ago from Flow Motors here in Winston-Salem, NC. Despite meticulous care and conscientious maintenance, the vehicle was nothing but trouble from the start.
Here's a brief rundown:
I had the car in the shop SIX times to have window problems fixed. (The passenger door glass was replaced twice due to deep scratches caused by the power window mechanism, and the easily broken "retainer clip" which connects the window glass to the door motor had to be replaced several times as well). Try driving 40 miles down the interstate back to the dealership with the driver's window stuck in the "down" position, and you you may appreciate my mood at the time. I had to use vacation time to take the car in for service immediately, as any precipitation would have ruined the interior, and my belongings inside the vehicle were unprotected from the elements, not to mention theft.
Virtually every exterior bulb -- headlamps, turn signals, and brake lamps -- burned out on this supposedly well-built "German" vehicle within two years of purchase. One headlamp burned out TWICE, despite having been replaced with a genuine VW bulb from the dealer.
The cheap plastic hinge on the glove compartment door broke twice. The whole door has to be replaced when this happens. (Hey VW, why not use a METAL hinge if you're going to spring-load the glove box for that pleasant "dampened" feel?)
The clutch went out after only 40,000 miles (a very costly repair). Bear in mind that I did not abuse this vehicle -- most of the miles were accumulated in fifth gear on the interstate.
The air conditioner started malfunctioning last summer, leaving me drenched in sweat more than once, but luckily started working again. Don't ask why. I hate to think what a new condenser would have cost.
The turbo blew an intake valve, causing a loud "fluttering" noise during acceleration. The "check engine" light came on as well. The turbo valve cost around $200 to replace, and the part was not covered by VW's touted 100,000 mile powertrain warranty (even though the VW salesman specifically told me that the turbo WAS fully covered by the extended warranty when I purchased the vehicle).
The six-disc, trunk-mounted CD player was problematic, constantly jamming and generating a bogus "disc error" message. (I had the same problem with numerous newly-purchased CDs, so it wasn't the software.) I had to pull over, pop the hatch, remove the cartridge and "spin" all the discs to listen to any of the CDs. A nuisance to say the least, particularly while commuting or driving in bad weather.
Disgusted with the constant breakdowns, I threw up my hands and traded in my GTI on an '03 Subaru WRX after the last repair epdisode, during which I was bluntly advised by VW maintenance personnel that my inoperative driver's side window could not be repaired because no replacement parts were available anywhere in the country. (No replacement parts nationally for a '00 model! GET REAL!) It took calls to the general manager and regional service director to finally get the parts by special order, and I drove a rental for a couple of days while they replaced the assembly.
Now, after absorbing a loss on my trade to avoid more unforseen repairs, I get a letter from VW stating that they're generously extending the manufacturer's warranty to cover certain window problems. (The dealer advised me that VW has known about the problem for years, but refused to issue a timely recall, and will now have to spend a cool $100 million to replace thousands of defective power window assemblies in ALL models.)
Please, learn from my mistake and CONSIDER ALL YOUR OPTIONS CAREFULLY BEFORE CHOOSING ANY VOLKSWAGEN PRODUCT. There are just too many other choices, folks, to be stuck with a sub-standard product that makes for a great test drive but provides poor reliability and dealer service down the road. If you find yourself sipping cold coffee and sitting for hours in the waiting area of your local VW repair shop while the same old defective part in your "German-engineered" vehicle is replaced yet again, you have only yourself to blame. This is a true story, and I have the service records to prove it. (I'm not alone: a friend of mine had a '00 New Beetle that needed a full brake job after only 15,000 miles and started belching black smoke soon thereafter -- another hurried trade-in.)
Look, I'm not a mechanic or race fanatic who spends a lot of time arguing about which brand is better than another. I'm just an ordinary consumer who expects a $21,000 brand new vehicle to have things like a reliable engine, working windows, a functional CD player and a useable glove box.
Don't let VW do the same thing to you -- do yourself (and your wallet) a favor and stay away from this "German-engineered" (and Argentinian built) brand until they make quality control and customer service a priority.
Now that you've traded in your GTI, hopefully can put this all behind you... and enjoy your new vehicle. Good luck.
Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
Glove box hinges were a common thing to break, taht's why they replaced them out of warranty (did for me).
As for the brakes, the rear brakes are a soft compound and usually wear out by 20,000 miles.
As with the window regulators, yes a 7 year warranty and a new metal clip design has been made. It happens to a lot of people, not just you.
As for a clutch to go out at 40k miles, some 1.8T clutchs have gone out sooner than that - they aren't extremely strong.
And it seems that VW powertrain should have picked up a blown intake valve.....
Are you modified or chipped in any way?
My GTI was built in Germany -- I confirmed this prior to purchase. It made little difference in quality, as my previous post relays. Sorry about the Brazil/Argentina mix-up. Either way, you're getting a South American car.
I'm glad you confirmed my suspicion about the weak clutch in some of the GTIs -- I know this is a wear item, but most clutches last longer under average driving conditions.
I was advised that the VW powertrain warranty did not cover the turbo intake valve because it was not an "internally lubricated" part. So much for what the salesman told me...
While the brakes in my GTI held up well, my friend, who drove a New Beetle, had to have them all replaced at 15,000 miles. The dealer told her that the cold weather (road salt?) in Ohio caused the brakes to wear out quicker. This seems a little ridiculous for a car designed in Germany. I didn't know about the "soft" brake compound. Why would VW design brakes to last only 20,000 miles?
I think the problem with the glove box hinge is a combination of brittle plastic and the spring loaded "dampening" design that exerts added stress on the door each time it's closed (and maybe while it IS closed).
I know the window regulators (or the "retainer clips" as they call them) have been a major problem. I had to have the same clip replaced three times in my GTI -- twice the window got stuck in the "down" position, necessitating an immediate trip to the dealer.
All this explains why Consumer Reports has awarded the Golf and Jetta a "well below average" overall reliability rating in their 2003 New Car Buyer's Guide. The New Beetle did only slightly better, and none of the cars is recommended. My experience is consistent with this assessment.
As for the rear brakes, they were getting complaints about brake noise, thus why they made them a softer compound - but they were prone to premature wear. They issued a TSB on this to replace the pads if this happened....
Judging by how few negative posts there are here on the GTI - it appears I'm the norm, not someone complaining about burned out light bulbs.
The impression I get is that the vast majority of GTI problems involve the window regulators and the ignition coils. It also appears the VW has acknowledged these are problem areas, but will replace only after failure and not preventively. Is that correct?
Regarding brake wear -- I assume you are refering to brake pads and not the rotors or other more expensive mechanical parts.
As I consider this used GTI, is there anything specific I should look for? The service records indicate 3 oil changes since purchased, but nothing else. I have not been able to get the previous owners name. I have driven the car twice and everything seem to work great except the auto up/down feature seems to work only on the driver side. I had the impression that feature was on the passenger side also. Should it work on both?
The brakes on my '00 GTI held up OK, but others have had problems (see prior posts). Brake pads are considered a wear item (warrantied to 12,000 miles, I think), so the bumper-to-bumper warranty won't cover the costs of labor/parts.
I don't remember if the passenger window has auto up/down. I recommend consulting the owner's manual. I had no ignition coil problems.
So far as window regulator replacement goes, I seem to remember being told by the VW service department that the upgraded regulators will be installed free of charge upon customer request even if there's been no failure, but I can't say for sure. Too bad they didn't just build them to last in the first place...
Meca, I urge you to consider all your options carefully before purchasing a late model GTI. My '00 GTI was prone to constant problems (see prior posts), and I don't recommend this car to anyone. Bear in mind that Consumer Reports (2003 New Car Buyer's Guide) gives the the Golf/GTI a "well below average" predicted reliability rating, and does not recommend the Golf, Jetta or New Beetle.
Good luck with your purchase.
They are covered for 7 years against breaking on all 02 and previous model cars.
Otherwise, the car has been an absolute joy to drive and to own. We'll see how reliable it is in the long run, but in my mind the package can't be compared to anything else on the market for my needs. It is more than quick enough to be fun, the styling is understated compared to the competition (SVT Focus, Vibe,etc.), and the cargo area is extremely useful (a critical need for my use). The suspension tuning gave me a bit of concern, but after driving it for a month I think the balance between ride and handling is perfect. I initially considered suspension upgrades for less roll, sharper turn-in. However, I do have to drive regularly on some unpaved farm roads and the stock setup makes this bearable so I won't change it.
So, 204meca -- if you are still considering your used 02 GTI feel free to respond with any questions. I made the leap and have no regrets. For what its worth, we also have a 2000 Passat (German built) that has been trouble free.
I am still in the hunt. Have fully optioned Silver 02 GTI (1.8T) picked out with 10,400 miles, but hope to land it for a grand less than the dealers asking price of $17,300. Actually he was asking $21,000 a month ago, so he may not budge much more. But I am going to hold out till the end of the month. I found an 01 VR6 for the same price, but prefer the smaller engine for balance and economy.
The 02 civic Si still beckons also, but in the balance I prefer the GTI even though I may have to pay another $1-2K more. Currently I am trying to sell my 97 Del Sol Si, since the dealer offer has been low. The Honda dealer offer $2k more to just purchase the DS than the Chrysler dealer (where the GTI is) offered in trade!
In any event, $17,300 sounds like an excellent price for the 1.8t, especially if it is loaded and in good shape. I bought the VR6 precisely for those reasons, even though the VR6 would probably not have been my first engine choice if I was to buy a new car. I like the engine, but probably would like the 200hp 4 valve model even more. Fuel economy is really the only downside to the "old" 2 valve VR6s like mine -- I've been getting about 21mpg in mixed driving, no more than 26 on the highway.
So, good luck with your choice. Sounds like a good price to me and had I found the same car (1.8t loaded)at the same price I would have bought it! My brother-in-law is a Honda guy, and is considering the Civic Si and I think thats a great car too. It is cheaper, but from my understanding is not available with the luxury options that make the GTI even that much more classy. For that matter, I'm not sure the "technology package" was available in the 1.8t GTIs in 2002. I initially thought that the electronic climate control, rain sensing wipers, and auto dimming rear view mirror were mere gimmicks. . . but, believe it or not they all work great and add a very upscale feel to what is still a small and relatively inexpensive car.
Mobil1 is the best, and it is resonably priced.
great.
thanks- stan
Oh, by the way, I also looked at a new 2003 Jetta with the VR6 motor. Black with gray leather interior. YUMMY!!!!!!!
I had a long and very frustrating experience with the Jetta and multiple chack engine lights. Although the car was great and never ran poorly with the MIL on, there were numerous valves in the air/intercooler/turbo system replaced and an ECM. Long story short - VWoA rules the engine was inhabited by the "check engine demon" and gave me a generous buy-back to apply toward a new VW. I got the GTI for $4000 UNDER invoice, and I'm very pleased to give VW another chance.
As for the issue on grade of gas. I was told by the lead VW mechanic that VW has a new position on grade of gas in the 1.8T. My old '00 manual said "premium only." The '03 manual says "premium recommended." The reason is that while the 1.8T is a complicated engine, it's plenty sturdy to handle regular 87 octane fuel. Many VW engineers believe that the extra additives and chemicals in premium gas can acctually contribute to the occurance of MIL lights. 87 burns a little hotter and should not affect performance/mileage that much. I plan to run through several tanks of both after my engine breaks in and see what works best for me. I also plan to use Mobile 1 synthetic 5W-30.
If anyone has questions about my 1.8 experience in the Jetta, just ask. Have to say I'm impressed with how VW backed me up by paying for out-of-warranty repairs and ultimately giving me an out.
I always use premium gas in my GTI - I spend the extra couple dollars a tank for premium plus it gets better gas mileage on premium so the $$ difference is neglegable. The VW turbo will run on any grade of fuel, if it detects cheap gas the knock sensors retard the timing so you get less performance and gas mileage on cheap fuel. I like Chevron premium with Techron, my GTI runs great on it and I get 25mpg in combined driving with a heavy foot.
Has anyone used plastic film on the front end to protect it from chips and pitting? I'm into preserving my cars' finishes, but hate the maintenance of a front end mask.
I've spoken with VW America and VW AG, but parts in general seem to be scarce. Even worse VW does not seem to have a systematic way to track availability. My current wait for a brake cable is at weeks and counting and no one at VW is sure when I will get the replacement parts.
Has anyone else had similar problems with parts availability?
What wheels do you have? The Monte Carlos? 5 spoke with gunmetal inserts? That's really weird it would take so long for a wheel though.
I hit a piece of wood on the highway at 2 AM that kicked up and ripped the e-brake cable right off the rear dirver side. They do hang pretty low on both sides.
The wheel - I have the standard 5 spoke 17 inch gunmetal Monte Carlo wheels - the replacement took four weeks to get. I assumed its unavailability was an anomaly, but the issue with the break cable is really making me worry.
Regardless - it seems that there should be a few parts (no matter what they are) in the US for a model car that has been on sale for over a year.
The TT shifter reduces the throws by 20% and improves shift feel dramatically - it took about a half hour to install. You replace the part above the transmission - you don't touch the actual shifter inside the car. The Audi part number for an 02 GTI 1.8t is 8NO711051A. I'll post a link to install instructions.
VW America is basicly saying that they have no systematic way to track parts availability or order status. I've spoken several times with them. If you need a part on backorder (like I do) you're SOL.
You don't replace the part under the shift boot inside the car that the dieselgeek shifter does. The Audi TT shifter shortens the throw 20% but not side to side. The Dieselgeek part that goes under the shift boot shortens the side to side. A friend of mine did the Dieselgeek to his Jetta in my garage last weekend - I honestly like the TT shifter better and for $36 you can't beat it. The Dieselgeek is almost too short and notchy for me.
Another mod I did to my GTI last weekend was replacing the motor mount bushings with poly bushings from suspension.com. Another friend did this mod to his GTI and really liked it. This is another half hour simple mod. Shifting is more direct, better traction, just more connected feeling for $16 in parts. The only minor downside is you feel a little vibration at idle. You get 3 bushings in the kit but you don't use the round one unless you race your car - I didn't use it. Amazing difference - these bushings don't allow the engine to rock under hard acceleration like the soft rubber factory ones do - the motormount in a GTI is also known as the dog bone from it's shape. Suspension.com sells 2 types of bushings $16 black and $18 red - get the black ones, they are softer.
I also vented the fender liner behind the intercooler so the hot intercooler air has a place to go like in the Audi S4 - another simple mod that cost me $7 and about an hour total time - had to remove and reinstall the right front fender liner plus vent it. Let me know if you are interested in this and I'll tell you how I did it.
I did not want to mod the tranny cause the 02J tranny (5 speed) is really really picky, and mine was already replaced once on my GTI. Of course if you do notice some problems, you can always put back in the stock shifter and take it to the dealer.
I installed a Neuspeed 25mm rear sway bar yesterday - absolutely amazing what this did to the handling. It's adjustable with 3 settings - I have it on the lightest setting - understeer is gone, I swear I'm driving a rear wheel drive car. No sway whatsoever, also an easy 1 hour install - it bolts on to the rear suspension, the GTI really doesn't have a rear sway bar. You want to use a 25mm rear bar if you don't change the front bar, no need to touch the front bar with this rear sway bar - unreal difference in handling. Where it used to plow and squeal the tires in a tight turn it just turns right in with no tire squeal - unbelievable change.
My next mod is getting the Koni sport shocks installed, I have to adjust them and have them installed. The fronts are adjustable on the car, the rears have to be adjusted off the car. I've done a ton of research on the best adjustment on the web - it appears one click firmer on the front and no extra firmness on the rear is the way to go - I'll see.
My dealer in Austin told me to switch to a lower octane gas from 93. I now use the mid grade(89 or 90) and haven't had a MIL light since.
As a follow up, I found out that the ignition coil packs were taken off a new vehicle on their lot and put on my car just so they could get the problem solved. Funny if its just an octane issue.
What a difference, especially with Bilstein sport shocks, H&R race springs, and a neuspeed strut bar, that car handled like it was on rails. Add the Bridgestone S03 Pole Positions on some 17" forged wheels and I was set.
The last few things I want to do to is the Neuspeed lower front tie bar for $90 and a rear upper stress bar (goes between the towers behind the back seat) both of these mods are supposed to make big improvements in body rigidity. There are a lot of designs of the rear stress bar - anywhere from $90 to $200 for a removable one. A stock or slightly modified GTI doesn't need stress bars but when you start modifying the suspension a lot past stock it is a good idea.
I'm investigating replacing various suspension bushings with poly bushings as well - I think I'll replace the front A arm bushings first. Replaceing the bushings seems to be a lot of bang for the buck. This car will be my first foray into bushing replacements. Whats nice about poly bushings is that if I don't like them putting the stock one's back in isn't a big deal. Last but not least are the tires - I'm doing my best to wear the original 17" Michelins Pilots out - can't stand these tires - I'm either getting Falken Azenis or Kumho MX on the stock 17" alloys. I plan to get some used 16" alloy wheels with some type of track tire for AutoX too.
I have a "test course" in my neighborhood where I take the GTI when I change something on the suspension. It has a series of extremely tight S turns going out to a high school in the back of the neighborhood - all one way with great visibility and totally abandoned on the weekends. I enjoy seeing the tangable, measurable improvements these suspension mods have made to the GTI - I've been practicing my 4 wheel drifts lately (not something I'd recommend with the stock suspension) - this is really, really addicting. My Michelins have left a perfect black line through my test track :-)
Where a stock GTI has a soft almost floaty touring suspension with a good dose of oversteer. My GTI has been transformed into a nice tight but not punishing suspension that understeers like a rear drive car - no lean or sway, perfectly controlled, handles like it's on rails and this is on the stock all season tires.
VWMS makes a lot of stiffer rubber bushings instead of poly bushings if you were interested....
Just wait till you get some super sticky tires on there, you'll be amazed even more.
The stock Monte Carlos are a good wheel, they are 23 lbs (about average for a 17" cast wheel), and they are made by speedline. The Michelin tires are awful, I know what you mean. If you want to spend the extra money, I highly suggest S03 Pole Positions, they are about $150 for 225/45/17 last time I checked - not bad at all.
As for the front tie bar, I have heard mixed reviews about just how beneficial this is. The rear strut bar however I was planning to do to my GTI, but then I sold it. The Alpha1 looks like a nice unit, and I like that it can be removed.
- Anthony
That Turn-2 bar is nice, I have links to a few rear stress bars at home, quite a range in prices.
I had put the GTI on my list but only as an alternative (mainly because a friend has had one for 14 months with some bad experiences) and am now considering its merits. If there are any posters out there like me (see below) I would appreciate information on your experience insuring the GTI.
I'm 27, single, male and live in central NJ. I've had continuous insurance coverage under my own name since July 1998 (was on father's policy between 1993-1998). I have no accidents/claims on my record at all. In May 2001 I was ticketed for careless driving (while aiming for a highway exit ramp I moved off the road 100 feet too soon and was nailed for "driving on the shoulder to avoid traffic," a total line of crap but that's beside the point).
I'm currently with AllState, have been since July 2000, and have paid ~100/month pretty consistently. Last January, when looking at buying the WRX, I got quotes for its insurance and was shocked to get nothing better than $2000/year. In the past few weeks I played the quote game again (thinking "probably not much change, but I can afford it now") and nearly had a heart attack at hearing the aforementioned premiums. The $2900/yr was from AllState, and agents of two other companies said flat-out "we're not going to beat them, and I doubt anybody else will."
The USAA woman was really sweet, and took the trouble to determine that the reason those quotes are so high is due to the WRX qualifying as a "high-perf vehicle," based mainly on is hp:weight. Deleting my 2 points from the quote dropped it 10%, but changing back to a regular-old Impreza dropped it almost 50%.
So, for all those GTI owners out there whose lives look a bit similar to mine, have you been seeing these kinds of premiums?
DjB
1.8t is a good choice because it is easily and cheaply modded and is a good way to get around hp/weight ratios that these companies use.
Check out Geico as they were the lowest rate for me when I got my Saturn back in '95 as well as the lowest for my current VW.
My other piece of advice is to take a defensive driving course if you haven't already. This course, in Texas at least, cost $35 and will take up 6 hours of your time. In return you get 10% off your insurance for a period of three years. At $3000/year you would save $900 for a $35 investment.
Also you may want to compare rates on: Mazdaspeed Protege, Mini, Focus SVT, Mazda 6, etc. and see what they come up with.
Good Luck!