My '02 OB is approaching 1K miles: the honeymoon is over and now it is time to begin 'accessorizing'. My list included the trailer hitch, hood deflector, security system, alloy wheel locks, oil filters (& plug gaskets). The parts counter list price for this stuff at my local dealer was about $530 (USD), plus tax.
Now I hate to pay full retail for anything. Why should I with so many e-retailers competing with brick-&-mortor outlets for my business? Nobody buys their car for full sticker at the front end of the dealership, yet we traditionally walk up to the parts counter at the back of the store and pay whatever the man asks. Time for that to change?
I printed a list of what I wanted (with part numbers, etc), and asked to see the parts manager away from other customers. I presented it as an opportunity. I was going to buy this stuff mail order from one of several Subaru dealers that shipped at a discount, and thought he might want to have a chance to earn my business and continued loyalty. Positive approach, polite, but firm.
He asked for a few minutes to 'research' my list, and came back with a proposal. All items were in stock. Would I take them now? Approximately 20% discount? Sold...... He even thanked me for giving him a chance to keep the money here, rather than sending it out of state. A smaller profit is better than no sale.
A very happy ending and a model for doing business in the future.
I tried that approach and it worked the first time for the Round Crossbar kit, but when I went in again for some other stuff, he balked (same guy). YMMV, Theo in Colorado
It is time to replace my RE92 (205/60/15 90H). They are rated at 40k and I've gotten 30k on them.
I've looked at the Bridgestone RE950 and Yokohama Avid Touring. The Avid is a 90S and I wondered if the lower speed rating could be a problem. Like to hear what other replacement tires folks have selected and the prices paid.
Vince- I have the Yokohama Aegis LS4's on a 91 minivan, have not noticed any additional noise, but it's not the quietest vehicle, so I'm not a good judge. They have performed well in the snow, so CU seems right on their review. (this might help wrobelc)
Still waiting for some advice whether to go snows (some Arctic Alpins) with 15" wheels or just get some LS4s to replace my 53k Wilderness tires. Help! (see original post 2947)
I think the question of going with snow's or mud and snow / all weathers depends on where you live and what percent of the time you will be driving in snow. It also depends on how aggressive you plan on driving, both on the snow and on dry pavement. I think most people can get by with all weathers, but if I was living somewhere that I spent more time on snow then dry roads I would get real snow tires. For snow tires my first choice would be Nokia’s (Finnish- very popular in VT and AK). For good all weathers look at Dunlop’s SP Sport A2 and SP Sport 5000. Remember the 4-wheel drive doesn’t help you stop any faster. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/dunlop/dunlop.htm
Hi - I spoke with Susan Hoff with SoA yesterday and asked if my car was eligible for the fix. She said they had only tried the fix on one car that she knew of and that was because they had documented that outback out of 'normal ranges' and that when my car was evaluated even though a ping was documented, all of the numbers were in 'normal limits'. Since my car isn't an extreme problem, they won't do anything. I told her the ping problems I had sounded identical to the ones that had received the fix and that the ping wasn't intermittent, it's consistent. Still no luck. I asked her if they were looking into a fix for all of the cars that do have the ping and she said no. So frustrating. Sharon
Part of an email that Susan Hopf sent to me on 8/16/01 follows: (Becker is the dealer and John Dale is Subaru's district service manager)
"After reviewing the technician notes at Becker Wagonmaster, Inc., John noted specific information recorded by their diagnostic tool while the engine ping was present. Mr. Dale forwarded this information to our Engineers. Following the replacement of your engine, the engineers advised us that it was operating properly".
My OB definitely has the revised program and according to Susan's email my car had been operating within specs. The out of spec car she referred to would not be mine.
My car no longer pings and it is a real pleasure to not hear the engine rattle. Eric Sample apparently has the same program fix and according to his previous post his car no longer pings either.
Maybe the confusion exists because the program is not yet available for general use. I was told 2 weeks ago when they installed the ecu with the revised program that it would take about 4 weeks for the software to become available.
While it certainly does not make any sense to upgrade the programs in the cars that are not pinging it makes no sense to not make the program available to those cars that are pinging. The fact that it corrected my car which was operating within spec is a pretty conclusive statement that the program needed to be revised.
Feel free to cut and paste my response and forward it to Susan. (SHopf@subaru.com)
As the title implies, I installed the OEM hitch kit on my '02 OB this weekend. While the instructions could have been more clear (as in where exactly to center the hole saw when drilling the 1.5" holes), the unit went together well. The pickup point for the wiring is under trim on the inside RR quarter panel and took some fiddling to find, untangle and route out thru a drain plug.
Of course, taking a knife to the new baby is a bit tramatic. Something akin to a ritual circumcision....
Bought a 2001 OB in March. Never been more thrilled with a car, even 11,500 miles later! (Despite the minor problems that the dealer still can't resolve!) Still love just taking the car for a drive around the corner! While I would have loved the VDC, even a Limited, the wallet steered me to one with the Winter Package (useful in South Florida!! Why it was even shipped here is beyond me!)
Anyhow, I was flipping through AutoWeek a couple of weeks ago and saw an ad for autoanything.com. I checked it out and decided to buy one of their leather steering wheel covers. I LOVE IT! Despite what the instructions say, it takes about 60 minutes to hand stitch it on the wheel, but it looks and feels great! Even my service advisor has commented on how it feels. It makes the steering wheel feel just a little thicker, but I like that!
They also have additional wood trim, but the pattern didn't match, oh well. The next set of goodies will include a doggie gate for the way-back! I'm going to try the approach that Steve took!
The accessories flier that comes in the mail makes a great Santa wish-list!! When does someone really need a rear differential protector??
My advice would be to keep after them to get the revised ECU program. I'm guessing they don't have much information, so they don't really have an definite answer yet. Or they can't publicly say they have a fix. I never saw any written documentation on my case, but since Ron Brady (dist. service manager) replaced my ECU with the newly programed one, my Subaru hasn't pinged. (The weather has been cooler here in the NW, so I'm not absolutely sure the pinging has gone away.) I don't think my car was operating out of "normal range" either. I'm sure if you keep after them, they will provide the fix.
I echo what sten2 has said about the Dunlops. I put SP Sport A2s on my daughter's Saturn and have them ordered for my LL Bean. The Yoko Aegis is significantly less expensive but, that aside, if the Dunlops come in the size you need give them serious consideration. Check the Tirerack.com site.
After doing a lot of research, I decided to purchase the RE950. It has some great specs for driving in both rain and snow. On top of that, Firestone has a buy 3 get one free sale till the end of the month. The total cost was $340 (not including tax) which I thought was a great deal compared with some of the other brands that I looked at.
Juice: I live in a rural area - Dutchess County, NY, and drove an F-150 for about 12 years. Parted with the beast when rust threatened to permanently detach the cab from the frame if I hit another bump. I needed the hauling capacity most when I was restoring an 1889 farmhouse. But now a simple utility trailer would do for moving some building materials, getting the lawn tractor in for service, etc. A 4x8 or 5x8 with detachable side rails, class-1 rig will do just fine. The OB seemed like the perfect tow vehicle. May also eventually get the hitch mounted Subaru bike carrier.
Brian: What I need to do is stop by the dealer and take a 'before' photo of the markings on the underside of the bumper. It requires two 1.5" diameter holes (hole saw) to gain access to pre-welded frame rail nuts, and two square blocks cut (utility knife) around the tailpipe for the hitch frame to clear and not transmit heat to the surrounding plastic.
Now that I have done it and see how it all goes together, the markings molded into the underside bumper plastic makes sense. Originally I was guessing whether the end of the mark represented the center pilot bit or the outside edge. I guessed wrong (it was the pilot) and put the first hole about 0.5" off the mark. No big deal..... I also chose to cut the squares a few mm undersize and keep the thick markings intact as ribbing for strength. Again, plenty of space for thermal and clearance issues.
Another neat feature - the wiring kit includes the buffer/interface required to convert 'foreign' car separate amber turn signal lights to typical 'american' convention 1157 combined brake/turn bulbs found on most trailers.
Now the real problem. I do not have a web site. Anyone want to host the photos if I take them???
I'll have to go take a look under our OB and see where those markings are.
Now I just need to order the dang thing. Where did you get the hitch from? I emailed subaruparts.com for a quote, but, like others here, haven't heard back from them. Guess I gotta call them.
I emailed Susan with the cut and pasted post from Vince. I hope she'll help. I'll paste her response for you guys when I get it. Thanks for keeping me clued about your fixes. Sharon
I've taken the plunge and put a deposit on an '02 OB 5-speed. Most folks on this board seem pretty happy with their OB's. Hope I will too. The main reason is that I'm tired of the punishing ride of my Isuzu Rodeo, and want something smoother riding. Did you know that both the Rodeo and OB are built in the same plant?
Anyway, I pick it up on Saturday (contingent on the private sale of my Rodeo on Friday), and of course they're calling for snow showers tomorrow here in Wisconsin.
Hope I won't have to deal with the ping issue - surprising because these cars have a knock sensor, but did anyone who has the ping get rid of it temporarily using premium fuel?
Nope, the ping that most of us have experienced doesn't change when brands or octanes are changed. It seems to be a computer program defect, although SoA won't officially admit that. Ping has been present consistently through hot and cold weather between 2000 and 2500 rpms, though recently I've noticed it pinging in a wider range 1800 and 2700 rpms - don't know what that's about. Good luck, since you're getting a 2002, hopefully you won't have the problem (most of us have 2001s that have it). Sharon
My 2000 OB hasn't had the ping issue. I believe in the other Subaru Crew forums is was mentioned that there *may* be a fix in the works for those affected (a revised program for the ECU). Not sure if the 2002's are the affected.
I'm up in Milwaukee. My dealer is Sommers up in Mequon. I'm getting the dark green. I like your '00 wine color (I looked at your profile).
Also, if your employer starts with a 'J', then you're one of our customers. We process your payroll! Anyway, I hope SOA fixes the ECU issue for those affected. I can't stand that pinging/rattling noise. I would imagine it also affects long term engine wear if left unattended.
My local dealer had one in stock and matched the mailorder price of $207. Their regular selling price is $264. Tax (local) verses S&H (mailorder) is close, and the money stays local.
SubaruParts.com has been quite slow in responding and shipping. At this point, I probably won't use them again. I queried Liberty Subaru (parts@libertysubaru.com. They were quite responsive, and their prices were slightly better than SubaruParts.com. Unfortunately, that was after I had already ordered from SubaruParts.com.
The diffy protector is used most if you are off-roading (or rough-roading) in rocky areas. Last weekend we went to a favorite rock climbing area on NFS land. 3 adults, child, dog, and climbing gear. Parking spot is off-road with pointy rocks sticking out in the middle of the tracks. Scraped the exhaust pipes in the front. Backed up, so never made contact with diffy protector, but it was nice to know that it was there. I wish they had hung the exhaust about 1/2" inch higher. It's definitely the low spot on our 2001 VDC. HTH, Theo in Colorado
Thanks for the info on the diffy protector. The furthest off road I took my OB was through a residential community under construction when a rain storm flooded the road I was on! (Everyone else had to hook a u-turn.) The OB made it through the mud and puddles without a second thought! Is it easy enough to install one on your own, or does a dealer have to? Congrats on your VDC- I'm jealous!
Up front, there is no skid plate but the front cross member is very sturdy and protects the engine compartment. In the rear, I have the diffy protector. That leaves the middle the only truly vulnerable spot, and it's lowest where the exhaust dips down aft of the cat.
Same here, Theo. Very slow order from subaruparts.com. I'll try Liberty next time.
I believe it's a rather simple job if you have any sort of lift. Could probably do it w/o a lift. We had it done at the port. Haven't look at the instructions lately. Subaru-Parts.com has instructions posted here that include the diffy prot.
I need some help from Subaru owners. I have an interest in purchasing a Subaru, but oddly enough have never knew anyone who has owned one or currently owns one. I would like several opinions on their vehicles. I have read through the chat room about pinging (which I have heard Subaru's do while driving) and wind noise from the windows at highway speed. (that noise drove me nuts when my wife had her Dodge Neon) What about additional maintenance costs associated with the all wheel drive system. Any positive or negative feedback would be appreciated.
I have yet installed the diff protector. I will try this weekend when I change the oil. I will take pictures and eventually share. I took pics of my OB and the hood deflector, just need to get them developed.
Of course (what else would you expect us to say). About the wind noise. I own 2 subarus and the only time I get any wind noise (aside from the usual highway speed wind blowing against car) is if I roll my window down, then up again. Since Subaru windows are frameless the seal between the door and the top of your car is the window glass itself. Sometimes I find that after the window is rolled down and up it is not as tight as if you open and close the door. Its still tight enough to keep water and cold air out, just a bit of noise. Rolling the window down and up again sometimes fixes it. Otherwise just open and shut the door and it goes away..
As far as maintence with the AWD system. The transmission is more reliable than most 2wd trannies. You do have to worry about changing the fluid in the front and rear differentials and you have to be a bit more careful about tires and towing but thats about it. When it does break it will be more expensive but by then you'll probably be looking to buy a new subaru. I once had a fellow who owned a old 80's vintage subaru and wanted to get a new car but is old one wouldn't die to give him the excuse to go and get it. The pinging issue seems to have only been on the 2000 model. Let me know if you have any questions
Speaking of engines and transmissions (were we?), the F&I person at my dealership told me that I'll love my new OB because it has "an aircraft engine and transmission". I just stared at her. How many planes have a 5-speed? Was she just completely full of it, or is there some truth somewhere to what she said?
Hi all, As I told you I would, I am pasting the email response from SoA's Susan Hopf. I'll hold my commentary for later! Ms. Agresta:
I appreciate your frustration with your vehicle and know you're eager to eliminate the pinging you're experiencing.
As I'm sure you understand, I'm unable to discuss individual cases with other consumers. Additionally, although there may be many similarities between the experience of one customer and other, there are often many variables and differences that aren't as apparent. It is also extremely difficult at best, to diagnose anything via description alone. For these reasons, we rely on the inspections performed by our dealerships and District Service Operations Managers, as well as evaluations by other technically trained personnel throughout our organization.
Your concerns regarding engine ping in your vehicle have been thoroughly investigated. We've reviewed freeze frame or snap shot data from your vehicle's diagnostic computer and learned all readings were well within specifications. Also, to gain more detailed information regarding component function while the pinging was actually occurring, the vehicle was driven with an external diagnostic device that recorded information. This information was reviewed by engineers who concurred that your vehicle was operating within normal specifications.
It is important to remember that some ping will occur under some circumstances, even on vehicles that are operating perfectly. Additionally, there are other variables, such as weather conditions, driving conditions and habits and fuel composition that vary widely from consumer to consumer and vehicle to vehicle. These factors, and others, can all affect the balance between performance and emissions and subsequently affect engine ping.
Our commitment to customer satisfaction is paramount. We continually consider ways we can reduce any operating characteristics that disappoint our customers, even in vehicles that are operating properly. Like all manufacturers, we must initially focus on those vehicles that are found to be operating outside of operating specifications. As I mentioned in our recent conversation, we have documented your concerns and will contact you with any updates that may resolve your concerns. I'll hold your email address in my file.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me.
Sincerely, Susan Hopf Sr. Representative, CDS Penn-Jersey & Southeast Regions
How 'bout suggesting the recent 'ping' fix be tested on Sharon's OB. I know, understand, that all data(s) said otherwise, but I think it is worth the shot. If it works, hey Sharon's a happy camper. On the other hand if it doesn't, SoA tried and still got a happy customer (well at least a valued customer). Oh, you know what I mean... SoA tried, that counts. :-)
I've got a tough decision to make. Either way, I win. I ordered a 2002 LL Bean about 4 weeks ago. Yesterday I found out that my local dealer got in a car that is identical to what I ordered. They are willing to sell that car to me now, at our agreed upon price.
Here's the problems, as I see them. I have not started toward selling my current car. I would be given a couple weeks notice before the ordered car comes in, to get the ball rolling selling the current car. Not a big $$$$ deal, but every bit helps. Secondly, I had in mind waiting to see if SofA offers 0% financing once the current 2.9% deal runs out at the end of the month. Their finance guy says they won't, but he's wanting to sell the car now. Third, they mounted a front license plate holder to the car. I specifically required no front plate mount in my purchase contract. The dealer does this on all his cars, and since this wasn't "my" car, they installed it during prep.
So, do I suck it up and live with the front plate, and possibly miss out on a cheap finance rate, or should I wait a few more weeks for "my" car? I know there's no real answer here, so I'm just rambling......
I really wanted an AWD vehicle. I was not willing to pay VW/Audi prices (not to mention other factors). I wanted a sedan (yes, I know I'm in the wagons forum). 8~) I didn't want a SUV type vehicle.
My Legacy (two years ownership tomorrow!) has been a fun, comfortable, and reliable car. My wife thinks the seats are too firm (I think Honda seats are too soft...)
Negative tradeoffs? More hardware and weight make for lower mpg vs 2WD. Parts may be harder to find because Subarus aren't as common.
It's rarely an easy decision. Hope this helps. Good luck. Jim
Actually the boxer 4 and 6 engines (or at least varients of them) have been used for aircraft engines (in fact they might have started out that way). Of course I imagine there are some differences between the engine you stick in the car and the one in the airplane. But there was some truth to the statement (on the engine anway).
Now or later Don't hold your breath on the 0% financing. 2.9 has been around a while, i don't think its going away. Only good for 24 months or something like that though. If you want the car now go for it, a liscence plate is not such a bad thing. But if its important than hold out. I'd sell my car ASAP, the economy is not getting better. If you do hold out then make sure you find out that day the car is comming in and go talk to the person doing the prep work. Don't count on a salesman. Sticking on a dealer plate is something the prep people do automatically without thinking.
As for selling my current car, it's a 1989 Nissan 240SX. I've owned it since new, and think I've gotten my moneys worth. For $2k or so, I think it will sell fairly quickly to a student needing a first car with all maintenance records, etc.
Anyone else see 0% coming in November? If not, I'll probably pull the trigger and just live with the front plate.
The 2.9% expires at the end of the month. I wasn't planning on opting for it anyway, I was planning to use a home equity line at 5% instead. But, if 0% rolls around, I'd do it for sure.
Its been ending at the end of the month now the better part of the year (kind of like this place in Austin that has been quiting business for so long their sign rotted and fell off). They might switch to a rebate or something but given the state of the economy I'd say low rates will stay a while longer.
Don't hold your breath on the 0%... I don't think SOA is going to offer that.
Taking the car on his lot means you make a few concessions:
1) don't get the cash for selling your 240SX prior to delivery of your new car 2) carry two cars on your insurance 3) front plate issue
If the dealer feels that is worth a couple of hundred bucks to him, then take the car on his lot. Otherwise, wait for "yours". Remember, the dealer WANTS to sell the one on his lot because he would rather have the money than the metal. You would be doing him a favor to take the car off his lot. Keep that in mind and see if you can get a further discount!! Good Luck!
Either way, you can't loose! Congrats on your new car!
-OB165
PS. If you get the car with the front plate, don't let the dealer put one of his advertising tags on it... get something Subaru-ish, or an American flag! Use the space well!
Sharon, I have much to say about Susan's response but for now I won't.
The statement of "Our commitment to customer satisfaction is paramount" is obviously wide open for interpretation.
I think the internet has changed the way SoA, and other companies, need to respond and deal with highly informed customers who are now exchanging information worldwide instantaneously.
Keep after them to apply the fix to your car and keep posting the updates. Vince
I understand Subaru's stance here. However, if the software upgrade on the OB is released there is no down side to trying it on Sharon's car. It shows Sharon that Subaru is willing to try and address her concern and, hey, it is a software fix so the monetary impact is small. If it is released there would be no negative impact to the car other than losing saved data in the ECU which has been collected anyway. From an engineering standpoint this test should be run, the data collected afterwards, and a comparison made. Empirical data doesn't always match theory!
FYI - In all fairness, I cannot respond to individual cases. That being said - I did review the case and Susan's response before it was sent. It was the appropriate response based on a total case review. The only thing that I can say is that you all know, if we can do something, we do it. Sometimes, there are other factors that are not represented and it would be unfair for me to get into a discussion about an individual on these boards. Your comments are noted and appreciated. If I could find a way to do something to provide a "final resolution" to this situation, I would. But based on the information I have, I cannot.
I appreciate all of the supportive comments. I don't understand what harm trying the fix on my car would do either. Patti's post on the other hand does raise issues with me. She wrote: "The only thing that I can say is that you all know, if we can do something, we do it. Sometimes, there are other factors that are not represented and it would be unfair for me to get into a discussion about an individual on these boards" - the message implied is that the reason they don't want to help me is because of some secret information about me and my car in their records. Perhaps it's because I'm difficult? I'm not happy with a car that pings consistently. Or perhaps they still contend that it's all in my head even though the dealership has documented the ping ever present in their invoices. The other thing is that they've just written me off because I've looked into legal action and made no secret of it. I had opted to wait to see if a fix would come through and it appears it has and now they say they won't give it to me for some 'secret' reason hid behind the statement that my car isn't out of normal performance specs so isn't eligible. I guess they really want me to file the complaint and pursue the lemon law. Again, I would rather not, but the more SoA indicates that they're not willing to even try, the more that becomes the only option. I agree with most of you, what harm would it do to try a software patch? And as I pointed out to Susan, if it works then SoA won't have to deal with me bugging them anymore. Again thanks for all of the posts. Sharon
Comments
Bob
Now I hate to pay full retail for anything. Why should I with so many e-retailers competing with brick-&-mortor outlets for my business? Nobody buys their car for full sticker at the front end of the dealership, yet we traditionally walk up to the parts counter at the back of the store and pay whatever the man asks. Time for that to change?
I printed a list of what I wanted (with part numbers, etc), and asked to see the parts manager away from other customers. I presented it as an opportunity. I was going to buy this stuff mail order from one of several Subaru dealers that shipped at a discount, and thought he might want to have a chance to earn my business and continued loyalty. Positive approach, polite, but firm.
He asked for a few minutes to 'research' my list, and came back with a proposal. All items were in stock. Would I take them now? Approximately 20% discount? Sold...... He even thanked me for giving him a chance to keep the money here, rather than sending it out of state. A smaller profit is better than no sale.
A very happy ending and a model for doing business in the future.
Steve
I've looked at the Bridgestone RE950 and Yokohama Avid Touring. The Avid is a 90S and I wondered if the lower speed rating could be a problem. Like to hear what other replacement tires folks have selected and the prices paid.
Still waiting for some advice whether to go snows (some Arctic Alpins) with 15" wheels or just get some LS4s to replace my 53k Wilderness tires. Help! (see original post 2947)
I spoke with Susan Hoff with SoA yesterday and asked if my car was eligible for the fix. She said they had only tried the fix on one car that she knew of and that was because they had documented that outback out of 'normal ranges' and that when my car was evaluated even though a ping was documented, all of the numbers were in 'normal limits'. Since my car isn't an extreme problem, they won't do anything.
I told her the ping problems I had sounded identical to the ones that had received the fix and that the ping wasn't intermittent, it's consistent.
Still no luck. I asked her if they were looking into a fix for all of the cars that do have the ping and she said no.
So frustrating.
Sharon
Part of an email that Susan Hopf sent to me on 8/16/01 follows: (Becker is the dealer and John Dale is Subaru's district service manager)
"After reviewing the technician notes at Becker Wagonmaster, Inc., John noted specific information recorded by their diagnostic tool while the engine ping was present. Mr. Dale forwarded this information to our Engineers.
Following the replacement of your engine, the engineers advised us that it was operating properly".
My OB definitely has the revised program and according to Susan's email my car had been operating within specs. The out of spec car she referred to would not be mine.
My car no longer pings and it is a real pleasure to not hear the engine rattle. Eric Sample apparently has the same program fix and according to his previous post his car no longer pings either.
Maybe the confusion exists because the program is not yet available for general use. I was told 2 weeks ago when they installed the ecu with the revised program that it would take about 4 weeks for the software to become available.
While it certainly does not make any sense to upgrade the programs in the cars that are not pinging it makes no sense to not make the program available to those cars that are pinging. The fact that it corrected my car which was operating within spec is a pretty conclusive statement that the program needed to be revised.
Feel free to cut and paste my response and forward it to Susan. (SHopf@subaru.com)
Let me know what happens.
Vince
-juice
Of course, taking a knife to the new baby is a bit tramatic. Something akin to a ritual circumcision....
Total time - about 2 hrs.
Steve
What're you towing with it? I've carried bikes and a trailer full of wood chips.
-juice
-Brian
Anyhow, I was flipping through AutoWeek a couple of weeks ago and saw an ad for autoanything.com. I checked it out and decided to buy one of their leather steering wheel covers. I LOVE IT! Despite what the instructions say, it takes about 60 minutes to hand stitch it on the wheel, but it looks and feels great! Even my service advisor has commented on how it feels. It makes the steering wheel feel just a little thicker, but I like that!
They also have additional wood trim, but the pattern didn't match, oh well. The next set of goodies will include a doggie gate for the way-back! I'm going to try the approach that Steve took!
The accessories flier that comes in the mail makes a great Santa wish-list!! When does someone really need a rear differential protector??
My advice would be to keep after them to get the revised ECU program. I'm guessing they don't have much information, so they don't really have an definite answer yet. Or they can't publicly say they have a fix. I never saw any written documentation on my case, but since Ron Brady (dist. service manager) replaced my ECU with the newly programed one, my Subaru hasn't pinged. (The weather has been cooler here in the NW, so I'm not absolutely sure the pinging has gone away.) I don't think my car was operating out of "normal range" either. I'm sure if you keep after them, they will provide the fix.
-Eric
http://isuzu-suvs.com/events
-mike
May also eventually get the hitch mounted Subaru bike carrier.
Brian: What I need to do is stop by the dealer and take a 'before' photo of the markings on the underside of the bumper. It requires two 1.5" diameter holes (hole saw) to gain access to pre-welded frame rail nuts, and two square blocks cut (utility knife) around the tailpipe for the hitch frame to clear and not transmit heat to the surrounding plastic.
Now that I have done it and see how it all goes together, the markings molded into the underside bumper plastic makes sense. Originally I was guessing whether the end of the mark represented the center pilot bit or the outside edge. I guessed wrong (it was the pilot) and put the first hole about 0.5" off the mark. No big deal..... I also chose to cut the squares a few mm undersize and keep the thick markings intact as ribbing for strength. Again, plenty of space for thermal and clearance issues.
Another neat feature - the wiring kit includes the buffer/interface required to convert 'foreign' car separate amber turn signal lights to typical 'american' convention 1157 combined brake/turn bulbs found on most trailers.
Now the real problem. I do not have a web site. Anyone want to host the photos if I take them???
Steve
Now I just need to order the dang thing. Where did you get the hitch from? I emailed subaruparts.com for a quote, but, like others here, haven't heard back from them. Guess I gotta call them.
-Brian
Thanks for keeping me clued about your fixes.
Sharon
I've taken the plunge and put a deposit on an '02 OB 5-speed. Most folks on this board seem pretty happy with their OB's. Hope I will too. The main reason is that I'm tired of the punishing ride of my Isuzu Rodeo, and want something smoother riding. Did you know that both the Rodeo and OB are built in the same plant?
Anyway, I pick it up on Saturday (contingent on the private sale of my Rodeo on Friday), and of course they're calling for snow showers tomorrow here in Wisconsin.
Hope I won't have to deal with the ping issue - surprising because these cars have a knock sensor, but did anyone who has the ping get rid of it temporarily using premium fuel?
Thanks,
David
Good luck, since you're getting a 2002, hopefully you won't have the problem (most of us have 2001s that have it).
Sharon
My 2000 OB hasn't had the ping issue. I believe in the other Subaru Crew forums is was mentioned that there *may* be a fix in the works for those affected (a revised program for the ECU). Not sure if the 2002's are the affected.
-Brian
I'm up in Milwaukee. My dealer is Sommers up in Mequon. I'm getting the dark green. I like your '00 wine color (I looked at your profile).
Also, if your employer starts with a 'J', then you're one of our customers. We process your payroll! Anyway, I hope SOA fixes the ECU issue for those affected. I can't stand that pinging/rattling noise. I would imagine it also affects long term engine wear if left unattended.
David
I definitely like the darker green (timberline I think it is?) over the lighter green (wintergreen).
Keep us updated on the purchase. There's even a chat on Thursdays (see the top of this page) where you can just stop in and listen or ask questions.
-Brian
My local dealer had one in stock and matched the mailorder price of $207. Their regular selling price is $264. Tax (local) verses S&H (mailorder) is close, and the money stays local.
Steve
The diffy protector is used most if you are off-roading (or rough-roading) in rocky areas. Last weekend we went to a favorite rock climbing area on NFS land. 3 adults, child, dog, and climbing gear. Parking spot is off-road with pointy rocks sticking out in the middle of the tracks. Scraped the exhaust pipes in the front. Backed up, so never made contact with diffy protector, but it was nice to know that it was there. I wish they had hung the exhaust about 1/2" inch higher. It's definitely the low spot on our 2001 VDC.
HTH, Theo in Colorado
Same here, Theo. Very slow order from subaruparts.com. I'll try Liberty next time.
-juice
HTH, Theo in Colorado
BTW, VDC has almost 13kmi, 9 months.
Greg
About the wind noise. I own 2 subarus and the only time I get any wind noise (aside from the usual highway speed wind blowing against car) is if I roll my window down, then up again. Since Subaru windows are frameless the seal between the door and the top of your car is the window glass itself. Sometimes I find that after the window is rolled down and up it is not as tight as if you open and close the door. Its still tight enough to keep water and cold air out, just a bit of noise. Rolling the window down and up again sometimes fixes it. Otherwise just open and shut the door and it goes away..
As far as maintence with the AWD system. The transmission is more reliable than most 2wd trannies. You do have to worry about changing the fluid in the front and rear differentials and you have to be a bit more careful about tires and towing but thats about it. When it does break it will be more expensive but by then you'll probably be looking to buy a new subaru. I once had a fellow who owned a old 80's vintage subaru and wanted to get a new car but is old one wouldn't die to give him the excuse to go and get it. The pinging issue seems to have only been on the 2000 model. Let me know if you have any questions
David
As I told you I would, I am pasting the email response from SoA's Susan Hopf.
I'll hold my commentary for later!
Ms. Agresta:
I appreciate your frustration with your vehicle and know you're eager to
eliminate the pinging you're experiencing.
As I'm sure you understand, I'm unable to discuss individual cases with
other consumers. Additionally, although there may be many similarities
between the experience of one customer and other, there are often many
variables and differences that aren't as apparent. It is also extremely
difficult at best, to diagnose anything via description alone. For these
reasons, we rely on the inspections performed by our dealerships and
District Service Operations Managers, as well as evaluations by other
technically trained personnel throughout our organization.
Your concerns regarding engine ping in your vehicle have been thoroughly
investigated. We've reviewed freeze frame or snap shot data from your
vehicle's diagnostic computer and learned all readings were well within
specifications. Also, to gain more detailed information regarding component
function while the pinging was actually occurring, the vehicle was driven
with an external diagnostic device that recorded information. This
information was reviewed by engineers who concurred that your vehicle was
operating within normal specifications.
It is important to remember that some ping will occur under some
circumstances, even on vehicles that are operating perfectly. Additionally,
there are other variables, such as weather conditions, driving conditions
and habits and fuel composition that vary widely from consumer to consumer
and vehicle to vehicle. These factors, and others, can all affect the
balance between performance and emissions and subsequently affect engine
ping.
Our commitment to customer satisfaction is paramount. We continually
consider ways we can reduce any operating characteristics that disappoint
our customers, even in vehicles that are operating properly. Like all
manufacturers, we must initially focus on those vehicles that are found to
be operating outside of operating specifications. As I mentioned in our
recent conversation, we have documented your concerns and will contact you
with any updates that may resolve your concerns. I'll hold your email
address in my file.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me.
Sincerely,
Susan Hopf
Sr. Representative, CDS
Penn-Jersey & Southeast Regions
-Dave
Here's the problems, as I see them. I have not started toward selling my current car. I would be given a couple weeks notice before the ordered car comes in, to get the ball rolling selling the current car. Not a big $$$$ deal, but every bit helps. Secondly, I had in mind waiting to see if SofA offers 0% financing once the current 2.9% deal runs out at the end of the month. Their finance guy says they won't, but he's wanting to sell the car now. Third, they mounted a front license plate holder to the car. I specifically required no front plate mount in my purchase contract. The dealer does this on all his cars, and since this wasn't "my" car, they installed it during prep.
So, do I suck it up and live with the front plate, and possibly miss out on a cheap finance rate, or should I wait a few more weeks for "my" car? I know there's no real answer here, so I'm just rambling......
My Legacy (two years ownership tomorrow!) has been a fun, comfortable, and reliable car. My wife thinks the seats are too firm (I think Honda seats are too soft...)
Negative tradeoffs? More hardware and weight make for lower mpg vs 2WD.
Parts may be harder to find because Subarus aren't as common.
It's rarely an easy decision. Hope this helps.
Good luck.
Jim
Now or later
Don't hold your breath on the 0% financing. 2.9 has been around a while, i don't think its going away. Only good for 24 months or something like that though. If you want the car now go for it, a liscence plate is not such a bad thing. But if its important than hold out. I'd sell my car ASAP, the economy is not getting better. If you do hold out then make sure you find out that day the car is comming in and go talk to the person doing the prep work. Don't count on a salesman. Sticking on a dealer plate is something the prep people do automatically without thinking.
Anyone else see 0% coming in November? If not, I'll probably pull the trigger and just live with the front plate.
-mike
Taking the car on his lot means you make a few concessions:
1) don't get the cash for selling your 240SX prior to delivery of your new car
2) carry two cars on your insurance
3) front plate issue
If the dealer feels that is worth a couple of hundred bucks to him, then take the car on his lot. Otherwise, wait for "yours". Remember, the dealer WANTS to sell the one on his lot because he would rather have the money than the metal. You would be doing him a favor to take the car off his lot. Keep that in mind and see if you can get a further discount!! Good Luck!
Either way, you can't loose! Congrats on your new car!
-OB165
PS. If you get the car with the front plate, don't let the dealer put one of his advertising tags on it... get something Subaru-ish, or an American flag! Use the space well!
I have much to say about Susan's response but for now I won't.
The statement of "Our commitment to customer satisfaction is paramount" is obviously wide open for interpretation.
I think the internet has changed the way SoA, and other companies, need to respond and deal with highly informed customers who are now exchanging information worldwide instantaneously.
Keep after them to apply the fix to your car and keep posting the updates.
Vince
Greg
Sorry to let Sharon and everyone else down.
Patti
Sharon - patience and trust that SoA will pull through for you.
-Dave
Again thanks for all of the posts.
Sharon