Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
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Bob
Now I hate to pay full retail for anything. Why should I with so many e-retailers competing with brick-&-mortor outlets for my business? Nobody buys their car for full sticker at the front end of the dealership, yet we traditionally walk up to the parts counter at the back of the store and pay whatever the man asks. Time for that to change?
I printed a list of what I wanted (with part numbers, etc), and asked to see the parts manager away from other customers. I presented it as an opportunity. I was going to buy this stuff mail order from one of several Subaru dealers that shipped at a discount, and thought he might want to have a chance to earn my business and continued loyalty. Positive approach, polite, but firm.
He asked for a few minutes to 'research' my list, and came back with a proposal. All items were in stock. Would I take them now? Approximately 20% discount? Sold...... He even thanked me for giving him a chance to keep the money here, rather than sending it out of state. A smaller profit is better than no sale.
A very happy ending and a model for doing business in the future.
Steve
I've looked at the Bridgestone RE950 and Yokohama Avid Touring. The Avid is a 90S and I wondered if the lower speed rating could be a problem. Like to hear what other replacement tires folks have selected and the prices paid.
Still waiting for some advice whether to go snows (some Arctic Alpins) with 15" wheels or just get some LS4s to replace my 53k Wilderness tires. Help! (see original post 2947)
I spoke with Susan Hoff with SoA yesterday and asked if my car was eligible for the fix. She said they had only tried the fix on one car that she knew of and that was because they had documented that outback out of 'normal ranges' and that when my car was evaluated even though a ping was documented, all of the numbers were in 'normal limits'. Since my car isn't an extreme problem, they won't do anything.
I told her the ping problems I had sounded identical to the ones that had received the fix and that the ping wasn't intermittent, it's consistent.
Still no luck. I asked her if they were looking into a fix for all of the cars that do have the ping and she said no.
So frustrating.
Sharon
Part of an email that Susan Hopf sent to me on 8/16/01 follows: (Becker is the dealer and John Dale is Subaru's district service manager)
"After reviewing the technician notes at Becker Wagonmaster, Inc., John noted specific information recorded by their diagnostic tool while the engine ping was present. Mr. Dale forwarded this information to our Engineers.
Following the replacement of your engine, the engineers advised us that it was operating properly".
My OB definitely has the revised program and according to Susan's email my car had been operating within specs. The out of spec car she referred to would not be mine.
My car no longer pings and it is a real pleasure to not hear the engine rattle. Eric Sample apparently has the same program fix and according to his previous post his car no longer pings either.
Maybe the confusion exists because the program is not yet available for general use. I was told 2 weeks ago when they installed the ecu with the revised program that it would take about 4 weeks for the software to become available.
While it certainly does not make any sense to upgrade the programs in the cars that are not pinging it makes no sense to not make the program available to those cars that are pinging. The fact that it corrected my car which was operating within spec is a pretty conclusive statement that the program needed to be revised.
Feel free to cut and paste my response and forward it to Susan. (SHopf@subaru.com)
Let me know what happens.
Vince
-juice
Of course, taking a knife to the new baby is a bit tramatic. Something akin to a ritual circumcision....
Total time - about 2 hrs.
Steve
What're you towing with it? I've carried bikes and a trailer full of wood chips.
-juice
-Brian
Anyhow, I was flipping through AutoWeek a couple of weeks ago and saw an ad for autoanything.com. I checked it out and decided to buy one of their leather steering wheel covers. I LOVE IT! Despite what the instructions say, it takes about 60 minutes to hand stitch it on the wheel, but it looks and feels great! Even my service advisor has commented on how it feels. It makes the steering wheel feel just a little thicker, but I like that!
They also have additional wood trim, but the pattern didn't match, oh well. The next set of goodies will include a doggie gate for the way-back! I'm going to try the approach that Steve took!
The accessories flier that comes in the mail makes a great Santa wish-list!! When does someone really need a rear differential protector??
My advice would be to keep after them to get the revised ECU program. I'm guessing they don't have much information, so they don't really have an definite answer yet. Or they can't publicly say they have a fix. I never saw any written documentation on my case, but since Ron Brady (dist. service manager) replaced my ECU with the newly programed one, my Subaru hasn't pinged. (The weather has been cooler here in the NW, so I'm not absolutely sure the pinging has gone away.) I don't think my car was operating out of "normal range" either. I'm sure if you keep after them, they will provide the fix.
-Eric
http://isuzu-suvs.com/events
-mike
May also eventually get the hitch mounted Subaru bike carrier.
Brian: What I need to do is stop by the dealer and take a 'before' photo of the markings on the underside of the bumper. It requires two 1.5" diameter holes (hole saw) to gain access to pre-welded frame rail nuts, and two square blocks cut (utility knife) around the tailpipe for the hitch frame to clear and not transmit heat to the surrounding plastic.
Now that I have done it and see how it all goes together, the markings molded into the underside bumper plastic makes sense. Originally I was guessing whether the end of the mark represented the center pilot bit or the outside edge. I guessed wrong (it was the pilot) and put the first hole about 0.5" off the mark. No big deal..... I also chose to cut the squares a few mm undersize and keep the thick markings intact as ribbing for strength. Again, plenty of space for thermal and clearance issues.
Another neat feature - the wiring kit includes the buffer/interface required to convert 'foreign' car separate amber turn signal lights to typical 'american' convention 1157 combined brake/turn bulbs found on most trailers.
Now the real problem. I do not have a web site. Anyone want to host the photos if I take them???
Steve
Now I just need to order the dang thing. Where did you get the hitch from? I emailed subaruparts.com for a quote, but, like others here, haven't heard back from them. Guess I gotta call them.
-Brian
Thanks for keeping me clued about your fixes.
Sharon
I've taken the plunge and put a deposit on an '02 OB 5-speed. Most folks on this board seem pretty happy with their OB's. Hope I will too. The main reason is that I'm tired of the punishing ride of my Isuzu Rodeo, and want something smoother riding. Did you know that both the Rodeo and OB are built in the same plant?
Anyway, I pick it up on Saturday (contingent on the private sale of my Rodeo on Friday), and of course they're calling for snow showers tomorrow here in Wisconsin.
Hope I won't have to deal with the ping issue - surprising because these cars have a knock sensor, but did anyone who has the ping get rid of it temporarily using premium fuel?
Thanks,
David
Good luck, since you're getting a 2002, hopefully you won't have the problem (most of us have 2001s that have it).
Sharon
My 2000 OB hasn't had the ping issue. I believe in the other Subaru Crew forums is was mentioned that there *may* be a fix in the works for those affected (a revised program for the ECU). Not sure if the 2002's are the affected.
-Brian
I'm up in Milwaukee. My dealer is Sommers up in Mequon. I'm getting the dark green. I like your '00 wine color (I looked at your profile).
Also, if your employer starts with a 'J', then you're one of our customers. We process your payroll! Anyway, I hope SOA fixes the ECU issue for those affected. I can't stand that pinging/rattling noise. I would imagine it also affects long term engine wear if left unattended.
David
I definitely like the darker green (timberline I think it is?) over the lighter green (wintergreen).
Keep us updated on the purchase. There's even a chat on Thursdays (see the top of this page) where you can just stop in and listen or ask questions.
-Brian
My local dealer had one in stock and matched the mailorder price of $207. Their regular selling price is $264. Tax (local) verses S&H (mailorder) is close, and the money stays local.
Steve
The diffy protector is used most if you are off-roading (or rough-roading) in rocky areas. Last weekend we went to a favorite rock climbing area on NFS land. 3 adults, child, dog, and climbing gear. Parking spot is off-road with pointy rocks sticking out in the middle of the tracks. Scraped the exhaust pipes in the front. Backed up, so never made contact with diffy protector, but it was nice to know that it was there. I wish they had hung the exhaust about 1/2" inch higher. It's definitely the low spot on our 2001 VDC.
HTH, Theo in Colorado
Same here, Theo. Very slow order from subaruparts.com. I'll try Liberty next time.
-juice
HTH, Theo in Colorado
BTW, VDC has almost 13kmi, 9 months.
Greg
About the wind noise. I own 2 subarus and the only time I get any wind noise (aside from the usual highway speed wind blowing against car) is if I roll my window down, then up again. Since Subaru windows are frameless the seal between the door and the top of your car is the window glass itself. Sometimes I find that after the window is rolled down and up it is not as tight as if you open and close the door. Its still tight enough to keep water and cold air out, just a bit of noise. Rolling the window down and up again sometimes fixes it. Otherwise just open and shut the door and it goes away..
As far as maintence with the AWD system. The transmission is more reliable than most 2wd trannies. You do have to worry about changing the fluid in the front and rear differentials and you have to be a bit more careful about tires and towing but thats about it. When it does break it will be more expensive but by then you'll probably be looking to buy a new subaru. I once had a fellow who owned a old 80's vintage subaru and wanted to get a new car but is old one wouldn't die to give him the excuse to go and get it. The pinging issue seems to have only been on the 2000 model. Let me know if you have any questions
David
As I told you I would, I am pasting the email response from SoA's Susan Hopf.
I'll hold my commentary for later!
Ms. Agresta:
I appreciate your frustration with your vehicle and know you're eager to
eliminate the pinging you're experiencing.
As I'm sure you understand, I'm unable to discuss individual cases with
other consumers. Additionally, although there may be many similarities
between the experience of one customer and other, there are often many
variables and differences that aren't as apparent. It is also extremely
difficult at best, to diagnose anything via description alone. For these
reasons, we rely on the inspections performed by our dealerships and
District Service Operations Managers, as well as evaluations by other
technically trained personnel throughout our organization.
Your concerns regarding engine ping in your vehicle have been thoroughly
investigated. We've reviewed freeze frame or snap shot data from your
vehicle's diagnostic computer and learned all readings were well within
specifications. Also, to gain more detailed information regarding component
function while the pinging was actually occurring, the vehicle was driven
with an external diagnostic device that recorded information. This
information was reviewed by engineers who concurred that your vehicle was
operating within normal specifications.
It is important to remember that some ping will occur under some
circumstances, even on vehicles that are operating perfectly. Additionally,
there are other variables, such as weather conditions, driving conditions
and habits and fuel composition that vary widely from consumer to consumer
and vehicle to vehicle. These factors, and others, can all affect the
balance between performance and emissions and subsequently affect engine
ping.
Our commitment to customer satisfaction is paramount. We continually
consider ways we can reduce any operating characteristics that disappoint
our customers, even in vehicles that are operating properly. Like all
manufacturers, we must initially focus on those vehicles that are found to
be operating outside of operating specifications. As I mentioned in our
recent conversation, we have documented your concerns and will contact you
with any updates that may resolve your concerns. I'll hold your email
address in my file.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me.
Sincerely,
Susan Hopf
Sr. Representative, CDS
Penn-Jersey & Southeast Regions
-Dave
Here's the problems, as I see them. I have not started toward selling my current car. I would be given a couple weeks notice before the ordered car comes in, to get the ball rolling selling the current car. Not a big $$$$ deal, but every bit helps. Secondly, I had in mind waiting to see if SofA offers 0% financing once the current 2.9% deal runs out at the end of the month. Their finance guy says they won't, but he's wanting to sell the car now. Third, they mounted a front license plate holder to the car. I specifically required no front plate mount in my purchase contract. The dealer does this on all his cars, and since this wasn't "my" car, they installed it during prep.
So, do I suck it up and live with the front plate, and possibly miss out on a cheap finance rate, or should I wait a few more weeks for "my" car? I know there's no real answer here, so I'm just rambling......
My Legacy (two years ownership tomorrow!) has been a fun, comfortable, and reliable car. My wife thinks the seats are too firm (I think Honda seats are too soft...)
Negative tradeoffs? More hardware and weight make for lower mpg vs 2WD.
Parts may be harder to find because Subarus aren't as common.
It's rarely an easy decision. Hope this helps.
Good luck.
Jim
Now or later
Don't hold your breath on the 0% financing. 2.9 has been around a while, i don't think its going away. Only good for 24 months or something like that though. If you want the car now go for it, a liscence plate is not such a bad thing. But if its important than hold out. I'd sell my car ASAP, the economy is not getting better. If you do hold out then make sure you find out that day the car is comming in and go talk to the person doing the prep work. Don't count on a salesman. Sticking on a dealer plate is something the prep people do automatically without thinking.
Anyone else see 0% coming in November? If not, I'll probably pull the trigger and just live with the front plate.
-mike
Taking the car on his lot means you make a few concessions:
1) don't get the cash for selling your 240SX prior to delivery of your new car
2) carry two cars on your insurance
3) front plate issue
If the dealer feels that is worth a couple of hundred bucks to him, then take the car on his lot. Otherwise, wait for "yours". Remember, the dealer WANTS to sell the one on his lot because he would rather have the money than the metal. You would be doing him a favor to take the car off his lot. Keep that in mind and see if you can get a further discount!! Good Luck!
Either way, you can't loose! Congrats on your new car!
-OB165
PS. If you get the car with the front plate, don't let the dealer put one of his advertising tags on it... get something Subaru-ish, or an American flag! Use the space well!
I have much to say about Susan's response but for now I won't.
The statement of "Our commitment to customer satisfaction is paramount" is obviously wide open for interpretation.
I think the internet has changed the way SoA, and other companies, need to respond and deal with highly informed customers who are now exchanging information worldwide instantaneously.
Keep after them to apply the fix to your car and keep posting the updates.
Vince
Greg
Sorry to let Sharon and everyone else down.
Patti
Sharon - patience and trust that SoA will pull through for you.
-Dave
Again thanks for all of the posts.
Sharon