Subaru Legacy/Outback

paisan · November 2001

I don't recomend using the OEM wiring harness for fogs. On the pre-02 RSs and possibly the 02s as well, the fog light harness doesn't include a relay and they power runs through the switch. This is not recommended for fog light operation.

-mike

c_hunter · November 2001

At least on my 00 Outback, you have to install the wiring harness for the subwoofer -- the harness is not built in. I believe it comes with the subwoofer kit.

I do recall hearing that the tweeter wires were preinstalled; maybe someone else can confirm. You should be able to use the tweeter wiring and all other speaker wiring with an aftermarket stereo. Probably not the best wire, but it should do.

Craig

ateixeira · November 2001

You may also want to use "3" for long down hills, where engine braking is desired. But I agree you should be in "D" most of the time.

-juice

mawittman · November 2001

Hey fellow Suby-ists! Just thought I'd share some of my stuff here, too.

http://www.jamawittman.org/matt.htm

Enjoy!

Matt

jschat · November 2001

Wow! Great info from this board. I had my new 02 VDC for about a week. Already went to dealer about this. The car pulls to the right slightly, they fixed it once but I'm still noticing it. It seems like the dealer does not have a whole lot of expertise on this subject. May be I should just bring it to tire dealers. I'm a bit disturb by it but the rest of the car is great.

On something off subject, we had our VDC (frost white)installed with factory spoiler (wagon) however the color doesn't match right (a little darker than the rest of the car). Does anyone who has this option noticing this or just me? Can dealer repaint this or they should order another one.

Chat

ateixeira · November 2001

Welcome to the 1/4 million mile club. You should have kept it, Matt!

Chat: did the dealer paint it in-house? Or was it painted at the factory? Lots of parts come primed black, and the shop paints them for you.

-juice

outback165 · November 2001

Well all, after spending six hours at Firestone, I am finally back in the office. I went for the lifetime alignment thing, I think it's a good deal. The car drives great- the 950s are much quieter than the Wilderness. It was tough coming to the office - I almost drove past the highway exit! I can't wait to see how the car handles in the rain, but that's not in the forecast for the next week...

One thing though: they had to align my car twice because the first time they had specs for an '01 Outback Sport. As I was getting ready to pay, I noticed on the print-out and called to the manager's attention that under model they had "Impreza/Outback Sport (AWD)". He tried explaining to me that "sport" was the same car, just without the sunroof and leather (like mine). I bit my toungue, and politely suggested that we look at the available options together. Sure enough, there was another selection for "Legacy/Outback". Then the manager told me that he thought he heard me say my car was all wheel drive, and so they went with the AWD option because they "have to do what's in the computer" and the other one is for the "front wheel drive" models. I took a deep breath, called over the store manager and the technician with us, and we had a pow-wow on Subarus. Interestingly enough, the tech who made the error was the only one interested in learning about the different models. This is probably attributable to the fact that there are only a handful of Subarus in South Florida, but it might be worth confirming models with non-Subaru tech when having work like this performed.

Anyhow, thanks again for everyone's advice on this issue.

Pete.

outback165 · November 2001

Matt,

Congrats on your new (to you) OB. Tell us about it. Miles, options, etc.

Pete.

ateixeira · November 2001

There are very few Subies in South Florida. And unless that shop had worked on the other one...

;-)

-juice

c_hunter · November 2001

Glad to hear you like the 950s, and it's good you caught the alignment mistake! Thanks for the update.

Craig

goosegog · November 2001

Jschat - the body colour spoiler actually comes primed in black as juice suggests and the dealer paints it. Mine matches perfectly (wintergreen). Watch for the two bolts that hold it in place...mine just touched the body of the car when the tailgate closed and rubbed the paint through to the metal. I had to take a file to the bolts and then paint them, as well as touching up the body.

Sten2 - The tweeter kit plugs straight in to the existing wiring which is tucked behind the little black triangle. It is a neat installation and the tweeters point right at your head which is how it should be; high frequency sounds are very directional. Personally I doubt that the quality of the wire makes much difference to a tweeter in a car. It is a low power device never far from the amplifier and anyway a car is hardly the perfect listening environment.

outback165 · November 2001

So I just hung up with a buddy of mine who said I had taken the first step towards an Outback GT... what's the next step, monotone paint??? Guess I won't be doing too much off roading with the 950s... I guess that's the only bad thing. Craig- how are the Wilderness? Car still driving as nicely? Looking forward to a drive after work! Hope there's no traffic!

FYI, still looking for a couple more South Floridian Subaru owners! Please email me at soflasubaru@hotmail.com so I can try to organize a drive. Someone at the Miami autoshow told one of the product specialists about a gathering every Friday??? For the two others in the Ft Lauderdale area: ever heard of this?

hondafriek · November 2001

I have a 2001 LegacyGT wagon, same body as the 2000 outback, I installed the factory spoiler myself and it came body colour right from subaru you actually have the option to get it in primer or painted.

Goose I do not know who installed your spoiler but it is installed wrong. no bolts should come through the second skin of the tailgate. all mounting bolts should be concealed between the double skins, this is why you had a bolt rubbing on the body it should not be there in the first place.

On the install after you remove some trim bits you use some existing holes for 2 of the mountings, you have to drill one hole right through both skins, you then enlarge the hole in the inside skin so that the bolt can pass through, there is a plug supplied with spoiler to cover this hole.

The other two holes are just drilled through the outside skin

Cheers Pat.

c_hunter · November 2001

The Wilderness tires are still doing OK, and I am enjoying my long commute to/from work. The car feels much smoother than before, and the steering is nice and accurate.

I wouldn't worry about off-roading with the 950s -- I don't think the OEM Wilderness tires are any more suited for off-road use than any other tire, and they've done OK in the limited off-roading I have done. The 950s would probably be fine, though you may want to take better care of them than the stock tires!

Speaking of the Outback GT, you should install beefier anti-sway bars -- that would really make a difference, and would help out those new tires quite a bit.

Craig

ateixeira · November 2001

Pete: YellowBikeDon is also in Florida. He hangs out in the Subaru Crew threads. You're not alone! ;-)

Outback GT? You mean Legacy GT, right?

-juice

viktoria_r · November 2001

Does anyone know whether low APR financing is still on for Legacies/Outbacks? Tx

outback165 · November 2001

Juice- my buddy mean that since the 950s are more performance based than the Wilderness, that I had taken the first step to an Outback GT! I think the next step is one of those rear spoilers! I wonder whether Santa would bring that??????

I have to try to hook up with YellowBikeDon.. I'll look for him.

Pete.

mrk610 · November 2001

Paisan don't mean to sound like I know everything but the my00-02 outback aet doesn't shift between 3-4 going up hills .IT stays in 3rd because of the new logic programing in the computer .They did it this way to cancel the trans from hunting gears . It works very well. As long as you keep steady pressure on the pedal it will stay in that gear untill the road flattens out and the rpms start to pick up . So you say its good to keep the trans in 4th even though the rpms are so low that the engines starts to lug and stumble . But its ok for manual trans cars to drive in any gear they want at any rpms they want . I've talked to my service tech and he recomends shifting into 3rd if you are going to stay below 30mph .Thats only if your going to stay at a steady speed and not stop and go driving . But you have to do what you feel is best .If you feel I'm giving attitude sorry I don't mean too .

mike k

ateixeira · November 2001

Gotcha, kind of like I have the rare and hard to find Project Forester 2.5RS.

By that I mean fatter sway bar, wider wheels and tires, custome intake, strut brace, sunroof, etc. So it's a Forester trying to be an RS! ;-)

-juice

paisan · November 2001

But I've read the manual, and the only time you are supposed to shift it out of D is if the tranny is hunting for gears. Like I said it will stay in 3rd on a hill *IF* you keep your foot on the pedal, but a lot of people will let off the gas completely on an uphill if they want to stop accelerating, which will in turn have the car upshift to 4th until you tap the gas again, then it will shift down to 3rd. From my research, the only time an AT should be put into 3rd gear selector is if it's hunting on an uphill, or hunting around the gears in the 40ish mph range. Hey if you want to go for a tranny earlier than necessary by all means do what works for you. Having a great deal of AT experience (probably 300K+ miles) I speak from experience.

-mike

nygreg · November 2001

is shifting out of D into 3 bad for your tranny?

Greg

ateixeira · November 2001

Usually, it isn't. If you stay in 3, though, you'll use more gas and have more engine wear (eventually).

-juice

theob · November 2001

We also got the White Frost VDC last February (ordered in Jan.) with a Spoiler as a PIO. In certain light the Spoiler does appear to have more of a yellow/gold highlight to it. On closer inspection, I noticed that plastic around the roof rack mounting points have the same tone to them. It seems to be endemic to that color on plastic. It's more noticeable on the spoiler because it's a larger surface area.
Patti, can you clarify? IIRC, there was a "hold" on delivering White Frost spoilers last winter. Was there a problem matching the paint? I've noticed that while there are quite a few white H6 OBs, very few have spoilers. Is that why?
Thanks, Theo in Colo.

goosegog · November 2001

Hmm, thanks hondafriek. There's nothing I can do about it now of course. The spoiler was installed by the dealer...all they sell is Sube and Volvo, they have a good reputation, are the biggest around here and should know what they are doing. But it makes me feel somehow cheated that it might have been done wrong. Maybe I should go back and check out the cars on the lot. Some are late model used and perhaps will have the spoiler.

Do you or maybe someone else have installation intructions available to put on-line?

paisan · November 2001

This will put extra wear and tear on your torque converter. Also by running the engine at a higher RPM than is necessary, the tranny and TC build up more heat and ATs are very sensitive to heat build up.

-mike

hpulley4 · November 2001

I thought low gear was more often recommended for going DOWNhill, rather than uphill. Downhill it will help with engine braking and shouldn't cause as much heat buildup because the higher RPMs are not actually generated under load. You won't need to ride your brakes as much so they won't overheat or fade either.

ateixeira · November 2001

Or boil the brake fluid...

-juice

nygreg · November 2001

the TC transfers the engine power to the tranny via the fluid coupling. If there is excessive slippage between the two, I can see heat buildup. But, if not, I don't see a big problem. As for heating up the tranny by using a higher engine RPM, I am really talking about leaving it in 3rd for around town where I drive on many twisty, hilly roads. Isn't it better to keep it in 3rd than have the tranny constantly shifting between 4th and 3rd?

The reason I am asking this is that the tranny is my weak point on knowledge, so maybe I can learn something here.

Greg

paisan · November 2001

Greg, in your situation where there are many twisty hills and lower speeds, it's best to keep it in 3. Basically the rule of thumb is that if it shifts more than a few times back and forth with constant throttle, you should just put it in 3rd and leave it there til the terrain changes. If it is roads that you travel often, test out a run in both D and 3, see which shifts less, and which feels better. Smoother is always better for ATs.

As for downhill slopes, I belive that the 4eat tranny in the 00>02 subies has "grade logic" which will downshift to 3rd if it notices that you are gaining speed w/o having your foot on the gas pedal, basically signaling to the computer that you are going down a hill, and have your foot off the gas, this applies engine braking.

-mike

lovable90 · November 2001

When I purchased my old '92 Legacy L Wagon (FWD)back in February 1996, the salesman showed me how to get myself out of trouble in snow and ice -- switch from D to 3! That Legacy automatic had a manual button that I pressed to engage the limited slip differential, then shifted from D to 3rd to be able to move from a stop light on ice, get better traction on a slippery highway or go over a pile of snow to get into my garage. Got me out of lots stuff. Probably would have had to use it less if I had better tires, but unfortunately, I was rather ignorant of such things. Only shifted to 3 maybe six, seven times per winter (I'm in Minnesota), but it sure was effective for the times I used it. Never had any problems with the transmission. Sold the car last June after I got my Forester.

Noelle

rsholland · November 2001

I think it's possible the Subaru/GM platform, due out around '05, could yield a mini-van. Perhaps that could be the next-generation Traviq?

Bob

ffsteve · November 2001

I've not noticed any contribution from my 01 Bean transmission, holding or changing to a lower gear when going downhill (grade logic). My normal practise is to drop a gear whenever I find myself continually tapping the brakes to stay off the rear bumper of the car in front or otherwise slow down for safety.

Likewise, there are times when I hold the car (any car) in 3rd to hear the engine growl and enjoy the quicker response when threading through traffic on the freeway. Sometimes I will drop it to 2nd on the slower roads.

But getting back to the original question, I've never dropped down just to prevent the engine from lugging. I don't believe modern engines are susceptible to damage from lugging as were some 50's or 60's sports cars with, I think, roller bearings on the valve tappets. (Wasn't this discussed a few months ago?) My Bean has a charming little grumbly exhaust noise at around 1500 RPM in top gear that goes away if I let off the gas, and the transmission shifts down promptly if I give it a little more so I have no concerns that everything is working as it should.

I agree with Paisan that the mechanism will generate more heat by this practise, but am not sure of the extent, or how close this puts me to the design maximum of the box. Basically dropping to a lower gear will result in the input shaft, and perhaps intermediate gear clusters, rotating at a higher RPM. Higher speed = more friction = more heat. Also increased wear, decrease in life, etc.

But hey, most vehicles are designed with an operating margin above the norm, and probably includes a good bit of spirited driving too! The trick is choosing your vehicle and manufacturer carefully, and I believe in Subaru in this respect.

Happy Driving in Any Gear,
Steve

jschat · November 2001

Theo,

The way you described about the spoiler and that plastic pieces is exactly what we have. It's kind of bother me a bit, enough that I plan to mention it to the dealer when I bring in the car next week to have them check out the alignment
(for second time).
Thanks for your input,
Chat

outback165 · November 2001

Looks like the "conversation" has moved past tires (which is perhaps a good thing) but I HAVE to share with the board that the RE950s are AWESOME! I want it to rain so I can try them on wet roads, but on a dry highway, at ridiculous speeds, the car is QUIET and smooth. They really should consider more performance type tires as OE.

hondafriek · November 2001

I did have the instuctions that came with spoiler, I looked for them but cannot find them anywhere, actually they were worse than useless, I had to figure out most of the install on my own.

This is probably how your bolt is wrongly installed, you can still correct it by drilling or filing the hole on the inside skin until the head of the bolt passes through then shorten the bolt and put two rubber plugs in the holes.

You are not supposed to see any bolts when the spoiler is installed Cheers Pat.

mortpeaberry · November 2001

did someone say they had a strut brace that allows ride hight changes? (other than xt6) Or am I On a Allroad/legacyGT pipe dream??
maybe that rally bread was "special rally bread"
-steve-v
ps kant zpel toooday

c_hunter · November 2001

These are the current rates:

2.9% for 24 months
3.9% for 36 months
4.9% for 48 and 60 months

These rates are good until the end of December 2001, for all model lines except the Impreza.

Craig

ffsteve · November 2001

I've noticed the roof rail bits on my white frost Bean are also slightly off - I think a little bit darker than the body paint. But not enough to bother about...

paisan · November 2001

Your salesman gave you a long line of BS. Quite funny actually.

The "Manual" button on older subarus allowed you to start the car off in 2nd or 3rd gear so that you wouldn't spin the rear wheels on ice or snow. The Limited slip differential works completly on it's own, w/o any buttons or levers. It senses slippage and moves power left or right. Kinda funny to hear a salesman put forth such fallacies.

-mike

paisan · November 2001

Yes, it shouldn't harm the AT if you occassionaly manually shift it, but it shouldn't be done as a regular practice. Also running in 4th at 1500rpms is fine so long as it isn't hunting for gears. When I auto-x I put my XT6 in "2" and this I can run up to about 50-60mph w/o a problem.

-mike

ateixeira · November 2001

Glad to hear you like those new tires, Pete.

Steve: a strut brace does not affect ride height. Steering, yes, handling, a little. They attach above the strut towers - you would have to get below those to change the ride height.

To affect that you can get lift kits, taller springs, shorter springs, or adjustable coilovers.

-juice

hondafriek · November 2001

For some reason in alot of instances plastic and resin parts, (ala, bumpers and covers such as those on the front of the roof rails)will be a slightly different colour than the rest of the car.

The explanation I got for this difference is that the paint lays differently on plastic and resin parts, to prove this if you look at the painted bumpers on most cars at cetain angles you will see a difference in colour.

Cheers Pat.

otis123 · November 2001

I recently saw a used 2001 H6 with wood (plastic) trim around the seat heater switches/buttons in a Subaru lot. Besides the cosmetics, it appears to stop the problem of accidently turning the seat heaters on in August. I asked the Subaru parts employee to look it up, but no such Subaru part...

Anyone know where I can surf to for such a part?

Thanks!

Ralph

PS
Are the RE950s Firestones?

BTW, Subaru dropped the automatic transmission downhill downshift in 2000+ models due to customer feedback. I actually like it on my Honda...

ateixeira · November 2001

Bridgestone, but same parent company.

-juice

nygreg · November 2001

I thought Patti said they altered the logic for the downshift due to complaints, but, didn't eliminate it.

Greg

hondafriek · November 2001

If you go to WWW.subaru-parts.com/installation you will find the install instructions for every accessory that subaru makes including the rear spoiler.

Cheers Pat.

goosegog · November 2001

Good link hondafriek, thanks. But now I'm more concerned. The instructions warn that a drill stop must be used to avoid damaging wiring. If they drilled all through both skins from the same side they couldn't have used a stop. Let's hope they did it from both sides.

Second, what is to stop water getting in around the spoiler bolts and studs? There is no mention of a gasket.

By the way, if anyone is interested the 00 Legacy wagon bumper cover fits the 00 Outback wagon (there isn't one specifically for the Outback). It extends further back, protecting the top corner of the bumper that is not covered by the thin black coating that is already there. It doesn't look perfect because the coating shows at the ends. Another drawback is that it says "Legacy" on it. About a week after I stuck it on I saw a 98 or 99 Legacy Wagon with the apparently identical part stuck on its bumper...but this one said "Outback" on it. Looks like I should have got the pre-00 model year accessory instead. Duh!

ateixeira · November 2001

Pat: I tried to cut/paste that link, but actually had to go to the homepage first, then click on the link to the instructions. Found them, though.

Goose: I would use some silicone sealant or something around the bolt to water proof it.

-juice

mrk610 · November 2001

Paisan Im not saying that I always drive my car in 3rd ,but when im driving around town below 30 mph I shift into 3rd to keep the rpms up so the engine doesn't lug . The rpms are only about 1500-1800 so I cant see how Im doing premature wear on the trans and heating it up . When I pick up speed I shift back up to drive . Im not questioning your expertise on the subject.maybe you did read the manual but we all know what little info we really get out of them . Thats why we have forums and chats like this one . YOu also said that you put your XT in 2nd when you auto-x so isn't that the same as putting it in 3rd once and a while . We all drive differently and treat our cars differently ,but to say ill have to get a new trany because of my practice im sorry I don't believe it . You may have 300k+ miles of experience but not on these types of trannys.
mike k

paisan · November 2001

isn't a problem. Also I have had lots of miles on subies (my family has had 4EAT tranny's in subies since '88).

As I said once in a while isn't a problem and it's not necessarily the driving it in 3rd thats a problem, it's the manually shifting an AT does a # on the bands and the TC.

Also when I auto-x I know ahead of time that I may be doing damage to my AT, I accept that, my car owes me nothing if it dies tomorrow. I'm just looking out for you guys, I know we all want to have a manumatic

I'd say my family overall has well over 300K+ miles driven on subie 4eat trannies.

-mike

Subaru Legacy/Outback

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