By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
I believe you can buy an extended warranty for most vehicles (including Subarus) while they are still in their 3/36 warranty period. You can buy Subarus -or- there are several other companies out there that will do the same.
As for the car choices, chances are you'll get a better deal by buying person-to-person. Used car dealers make a healthy profit margin on sales espeically if they can command a high price (ie. used BMW from a BMW dealer).
I would look into the 98 OB a little more. $18K is the seller's "wish" price that's probably based on ads they've seen from used car dealers. However, if the seller were to trade-in their vehicle, chances are they would get less than book value. Check a resource like Kelley Blue Book and find out what it goes for. Remember, buying person-to-person involves more paper and transaction costs towards you so make sure you negotiate the price accordingly.
Ken
I'm in the process of buying a new outback wagon, with automatic transmission and a CD player thrown in. The best price I could get from one dealer is $22,550. I don't think that's bad, considering the invoice price is around $21,500 including the options.
I'm not very experienced at haggling for cars, and I'm by nature skeptical of salespeople. Can you help? Let me know if I made a decent deal so far...also, I live in the Northeast...
Thanks.
artemis2
Check the Edmunds new-car pricing. Select all of the options that are on the car you are negotiating for, then click the "Submit Option Choices" button and the site will generate a pricing report for you.
Also check out www.fitzgeraldautomall.com for real prices on real cars. See if you can find a comparable car in their inventory. They may be considerably lower than TMV. For example, here's a Wintergreen OB equipped as you've described that is priced $300 below invoice. If you're close or below Fitz then you're getting a good deal. If you're way above, you could drive down there and get it or order one and have "courtesy delivery" for about $250 at a local dealer.
HTH, Theo
Also, it's one of the highest demand areas, so prices can tend to be higher.
-juice
Fitzgerald includes that in their internet prices. Beware, 'cause most advertised prices do not include it. Make sure you compared apples to apples.
-juice
Tara
Host
Station Wagons Message Board
Our car is about 9 months old and we have 17,000 miles on it. Great car. Only minor problem is with the seat belt on the driver side. It does not automatically retract with ease. Many times have to give it a tug or two in order for it to retract. Anyone else experience this.
Finally, we get a rather consistent 22mpg City and 27mpg HW which is as advertised. Very happy with this since prior the Lecacy we had a 99 Toyota Corolla which was purchased in Ca. so it had a lot of extra pollution controls. It was much lighter and had no power. In similar the Corolla only got 23 city and 28 HW.
-juice
Back to back, the Forester seems sportier to drive, but after a few weeks in the OB, you won't notice and will have loads of fun. This is especially true for the 5-spd model, which really gets the most out of that wonderful engine.
I rented a Forester a few weeks ago for a ski trip when I was out of town, and had fun with it. But, the experience quickly reaffirmed why I BOUGHT an OB instead.
Bottom Line: They are both wonderful cars, and both pick up loyal customers. Some go OB, some go Forester. I think it's good that we have such nice choices -- either way, you get a great car!
Craig
Thanks.
This is kinda funny and as far as I know they are actual facts (please correct me if I'm wrong):
*Original sales goal: 40-60,000 total units in the 2001 model year. The original goal was for the 2k year but there was some problem getting the Versatrak drivetran to production. I dont think they had any with AWD for 6 months or so after introduction.
*Revised sales goal: 25,000 units in the 2001 model year.
*Actual sales over the last year: Just over 11,000 units and at least one dealer claims they are going down.
*My prediction after my test drive and seeing the $29,000 price tag on the Aztek GT: 7 units (yup, seven) in 2k. I was way off. 11,000 people actually bought it.
What price would I buy one? I would buy a new FULLY loaded Aztek GT AWD for $20,000. Thats the most I would pay but they you would have to pay me $10,000 cash to be seen driving it so the actual number would be $10,000. AND this is from someone who happily and proudly drove around in a banana yellow, wood trimmed, wagon for 8 years. Too bad they dont offer that incentive and it costs $30,000. At what price does the Aztek become attractive to you?
"FAMILY UNFRIENDLY
Would you put your loved ones in this vehicle? Andrew English did and rather wishes he hadn't
IT might be the world's most popular 4x4, but Ford's Explorer is in serious trouble. The gargantuan American sport-utility vehicle (SUV) is at the centre of a massive series of legal claims in the US after a faulty batch of Firestone tyres started to peel off its treads, with tragic results.
With news of these Explorer deaths filtering through to the British conciousness, you can imagine the reaction when I brought one home for the Christmas holiday, especially from my family, who generally can't avoid being knowledgeable about automotive stories. They nearly hid in the loft when they realised it was on Firestone tyres.
Climbing behind the wheel, you have to remember that this Ford comes from a class of vehicle not known for its sophistication. American SUVs are based on a simple ladder-rail chassis, with a pressed steel body on top and a leaf-sprung, beam rear axle - and the Explorer is no exception. Under the bonnet is a single-cam-per-bank, four-litre V6 thumping out more than 200bhp to all four wheels via a five-speed automatic gearbox. This driveline is the best and probably most sophisticated part of the car. On the road the engine is powerful and smooth, while the transmission handles changes up and down the gearbox smoothly and quickly.
But that is where the good news comes to an end. Two tons of metal with this sort of accelerative capability means the best economy we came up with was 18.3mpg, the worst 10.8mpg. There's also a woeful lack of off-road ability. Its huge front and rear overhangs mean that, when the going gets rough and steep, you dig holes in the ground with the front and rear valances. Nor is the wheel travel particularly good, which means when you really need all four wheels to be turning, one of them is frequently in the air doing nothing useful.
According to Ford, its 4x4 has "a 'set and forget' permanent, interactive all-wheel-drive system". In normal conditions the Explorer is a rear-wheel drive vehicle, but in slippery conditions the system directs drive to the front wheels as well. What this means in practice is that the system needs the rear wheels to slip before it intervenes, and by the time it does the rears have dug themselves deep into the mud and you are well and truly stuck fast. On ice, the system allows the rear wheels to slide wide on a corner before the fronts start to pull the Explorer straight again. It's not terribly good.
The brakes are simply abysmal. Bearing in mind that a fully laden Explorer weighs nearly 2.5 tons, the power-assisted all-round discs are good for just three repeated full-power stops, after which they have effectively faded to nowt. We understand that the brakes have received serious attention on the new model.
The ride and handling also failed Telegraph Motoring scrutiny. It would be unfair to single out the Explorer for special attention in its on-road handling, as most SUVs are similarly unacceptable. A high centre of gravity means there is so much anti-roll dialled into the chassis that the ride is bouncy, unsettled and uncomfortable. On the road, the cornering power is limited, with very restricted grip from the huge tyres, which also tend to amplify steering or throttle corrections and set up a rhythmic wallowing sensation. Drive incredibly smoothly and huge off-roaders like these can be set up for the first high-speed corner. They'll even get round the second, but the third becomes a lottery, where the high centre of gravity and rapid weight transfer start to overcome the vehicle's already tenuous hold on the road.
It's this just-in-case factor (the car in front stops quickly, the front wheels slide, or you have to change lanes quickly) that means you need absolute and intense concentration to drive the Explorer at motorway speeds. I was very glad the test vehicle had gone back by the time I read the NHTSA's first rollover risk ratings in America. These new star ratings, which were mandated after the August 9 Firestone/Explorer tyre recall, take into account centre of gravity and width and are designed to give an indication of a vehicle's susceptibility to roll-over in a single-vehicle crash. The Explorer scored two out of a possible total of five stars, giving it a 30-40 per cent risk of a rollover. That was about average for the SUV class, although it was interesting that not one SUV earned more than three stars, while all conventional passenger cars earned at least four. Quod erat demonstrandum.
Given the SUVs' obvious susceptibility to roll-over and their very limited roadholding, one wonders why they need to be so powerful - does the Explorer really need to have a 100mph-plus capability?
When I asked Ford officials in America they mumbled things about consumer choice and said that the Explorer was by no means the fastest SUV Ford sold. It wasn't terribly convincing, especially when you consider that SUVs and trucks make up almost half of America's 18 million-strong vehicle market and that Ford and its American rivals make far more money selling these primitive but fast SUVs than they do proper cars.
Inside, the Explorer is like a reversed Tardis; it looks huge on the outside but it's a rabbit hutch inside. The floor is so high that you seem to sit with your legs outstretched as in a sports car. The rear-seat passengers have such pitiful amounts of legroom that I checked them for "economy-class thrombosis" after a long journey, while the boot is large but nowhere near as big as it looks from outside. There are no head restraints, presumably because the Explorer simply crushes all it comes into contact with, so whiplash is not an issue. The seats are also stupendously uncomfortable.
Ford's switchgear and instruments are mostly clear and easy to use and the rack and pinion steering allows you to feel every tiny nuance of a wobble on the road. There's a reasonable stereo radio/cassette, electric mirrors, windows and air-conditioning with very confusing controls.
Sorry if the criticisms keep coming, but you need to know how ghastly this class of vehicle is for family use before you sell your MPV or estate. In this respect the Explorer is simply representative of a whole class of second-rate vehicles from a land where stability, cornering and stopping ability apparently count for little. When I offered the test Explorer to my colleagues on the motoring desk they both chose a convoluted bus and train journey home instead and I have to say I wasn't sorry to see it go back; my family cheered.
I asked a senior Ford engineer if he was happy with the dynamics of the Explorer and he answered: "No". He
The cutback seem to fit our needs better with a soother ride, more leg room.
I agree that both are great vehicles.
Thanks
It's been a while since I have been here. My '01 ob ltd is 2 mos old. I am thoroughly enjoying the car, however I have noticed that the 1st time I tap the breaks in the morning -- I hear a high pitch squeak.
It seems that it just happens once- every morning.
Any thoughts?
-Glick
I had noise problems with brakes on first starting in the morning, usually generating a clunk on the first application. Turned out that the rear pads move slightly in the calipers and the action of backing out of my driveway resulted in them being moved to the rear of their short travel. At first corner, I would touch the brakes and the would clunk or squeal back into normal place. Drove me nuts for a few weeks until the garage confirmed what was happening. Now I m not sure if they are still doing it as I don't hear it at all. Maybe, having accepted that it is normal, my mind filters it out.
Other possibility is light rusting, particularly if your roads are salted and wet.
Try turning the car in the drive and moving forwaard fractionally at night to ensure pads are seated forward. Then see if they squeal in the morning.
Go back over the previous posts in this and the Subaru Owner's Club for a more detailed comment about three weeks ago.
Cheers
Graham
Looked at the new vehicles at some local dealerships and went with a base, 5sp, Wintergreen outback for 21,395.
My logic was that for $4,395 dollars I get 3 years and 45,000 miles of car.
Plus the cupholders work better ;-)
Quality? All Soobs score pretty well, but the Forester has a slight edge according to CR's scores. The Imprezza is built in Japan and its scores match the Legacy, so I don't think where it's built is key.
I prefer the Forester's lighter weight, more nimble feel (with the short wheelbase), and quicker acceleration. Gas mileage also tends to be higher, according to what owners report.
The Outback is roomier and seems more modern and upscale. My dad owns one and I can easily understand the appeal.
Don: tisk, tisk. It's an H6, not V6.
What price for me to buy an Aztec? They pay me a million dollars. Why? I'd be so embarassed I'd have to move and buy a new home, plus I couldn't actually work if I had to drive that in public. I'd even need to have the groceries delivered, and just walk everywhere!
After Survivor, Rosie O'Donnell bought an Aztec for all the non-winners, and gave the winner (who already got a million and an Aztec) a bag of rice. Guess that bag is useful - you can put it over your head so noone sees you!
Don't bother with Euro reviews of large SUVs. They don't even understand them.
Ryan: Alaska? I'm thinking heated seats, so Outback with the AWP, Outback Limited, or Forester S or S Premium.
Does the WRX get heated seats?
-juice
Don't get me wrong - I think that you got a good deal on your new car, but I think you might be overestimating what you will get for it in three years. Anyone else have any insights on the prices and trends on late model Outbacks? I'm trying to time the sale of my 99 so that it only costs me around $1200 per year in depreciation. That would mean I would need to get about $18000 for it now, which doesn't sound likely given the ads in the paper and my experience a few months ago.
Look at real-world prices instead. Check out Fitzgerald:
http://www.fitzmall.com/
They have automatic AWP Outbacks for $22,201, which retail for $24,790. If they start at $24,790, they have padded their asking price by $2,589, and could then inflate the residuals by $2,000 and still make a bigger profit.
I'd negotiate the sales price first, then residuals.
-juice
-juice
Your posts along with the other regulars have been extremely valuable.
I know this is off the radar of this club, but I gotta ask!!!
Back home, do you know this guy "The Crocodile Hunter - Steve Irwin"? My 5 yr old boy and I think this guy is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Glad to help on the brake noise. I checked today and the brakes still make a small clunk when going from braking reversed to forward. Seems a lot quieter though.
Entirely off topic, I have only seen the same Crocodile Hunter programmes as you guys have. It might however be more scary for Australians who are rather more aware of the hazards of what this guy does. No offence, but our salt water crocodiles make Alligators look like lap dogs. There was a rather famous one, "Sweetie" in the Northern Territory that had something of a downer on outboard motors and took to chewing them up together with the back of the boat. Confronted by more than 20 feet of saurian (as Sweetie was), I bet you could walk on water. Ultimately he was trapped as he was just too dangerous to everything including himself. I am not sure what chewing a running outboard does to your teeth but your dentist could probably tell you.
Australians respect crocodiles. Unfortunately some foreigners are not so careful. In fact there was a run of incidents and subsequent jokes in the 1980's and 1990's about American women (why was it always women) who went swimming in unsafe spots and were eaten.
In Australia, if faced with the choice of swimming at the top or bottom of a waterfall, go for the top every time. If you go over the falls, you have a chance of surviving. If you swim at the bottom, the probability of finding a croc are a whole lot greater. they also travel substantial distances overland looking for water.
The smaller Johnson's Freshwater Crocodile rarely bites although trailing hands over the sides of the boat is not a good idea. Happily, I gather that the Survivor cast are in an area only frequented by "Freshies".
The Steve Irwin programme which made me edgier was the one on snakes. Basically if you see a snake in Australia, you assume that it is poisonous as something like 541 of 562 species are. I think we score fourteen of the top fifteen most deadly. Steve Irwin went chasing the world's deadliest snakes, the most lethal of which is found in extremely harsh desert country.
Australian snakes do not announce their presence with a rattle; they bite. Some of them, particularly the Small Scaled or Fierce Snake and King Island Black Snakes are extremely aggresive being the primary natural predators in their domains.
Australians learn to walk with their eyes on the ground very early. Australia is highly urbanized, much of the country being too inhospitable to inhabit, but snakes occur even in urban areas because we have a lot of parklands. Snakes are also protected and hence confrontations and problems do occur. Where I come from in the country about 100 miles from Melbourne, we would typically see about one snake each week within 100 metres of the house. We have had them on the front door step and the laundry. One of our dogs liked to kill them and was bitten about four times. He was lucky that we got antivenom into him each time. If you ever want to try silliness, try holding a paralysed dog up so he can take a leak whilst your mother checks his urine for red blood cells by torchlight at four in the morning (The venom damages the nervous system and the red blood cells). The things you do for animals!
People that handle snakes are either very brave or very strange. When I was growing up I knew two children with what can only be described as snake-charming powers. One of them could "talk" a snake into a jar or bag and the other, aged about four years, would pick snakes up, carry them into the house and play with them. Neither were ever bitten but you should have seen the reaction of their mums.
Normal Australians have a very healthy respect for all reptiles. They are part of our eco-system. I respect them where they are but don't want them any closer than absolutely necessary.
Mind you, it does make a trip into the outback just a wee bit more risky. Thrillseekers are invited to come visiting.
Cheers
Graham
Interestingly, coyotes and wolves seem to be making a bit of a comeback. Makes the suburbanites none to happy, but I'd dearly love to see a resurgence of *some* animal (besides us)that would work down the burgeoning deer population. They eat everything in sight.
A bit less wild,
-wdb
Tara
Host
Station Wagons Message Board
My studio is in the basement, and I remember one night, a few summers ago, I heard a noise overhead, only to discover a large black rat snake slither across the clear plastic cover of the fluorescent overhead lighting fixture of our dropped ceiling. This was about a foot "directly" over my head. Needless to say I was a bit uneasy after that. I had times when I've found the that same plastic light cover on the floor the next morning because something too heavy went across it during the night. Another time I had to get the "animal control" over here to remove a very angry snake that got stuck near my paper files.
It's always funny when we have a plumber, or an electriction working in the basement only to discover a discarded snake skin that was left behind by some former resident. I remember one contractor as being completely "freaked out" upon discovering one snake skin. He refused to work he was so scared.
Well the way we look at it, if we have snakes in the house, at least we don't have any mice—and vice-verse.
By the way, our golden retriever and two cats are useless when comes to keeping the house free of critters!
Bob
The problem is about 50% of the time the second press unlocks all the doors except the front passenger one. I can hear the mechanism clunking but it often requires 2, 3 or more presses to unlock, and sometimes I have to give up and use the switch on the driver's door. This always works. Maybe the thing is just a bit sticky, but that doesn't really explain why the door switch always works unless using that supplies a slightly higher voltage to the lock. I don't really want to have the door panel off, as the plastic sheets never seem to go back properly.
Other topics:
rob999...I think Pacers are cool, but then I have a 70's disco orange phone.
jdlangan...I think they recently reviewed the Expedition too, but that was on its own soil.
Juice...It isn't only Europeans that don't understand large SUVs; I don't either, especially as most are driven in urban areas. Once you get away from big cities here in western Canada everyone seems to have a pickup. Last summer at a sports day for a local high school near Vancouver I could not help noticing the very large quantity of SUVs in the 70 or so parking stalls. About half the lot in fact. There were about 30 Explorers, Durangos, Pathfinders and such, along with a giant black Cadillac thing (forget the model), two hulking black Navigators, five(!) Mercedes, all silver, and a sprinkling of Lexii, also all silver. The show was just ending and I could not help noticing that the drivers of almost of these things were women, many slightly built. I wonder if they feel safer in these things?
Ross
After 6 months of searching with a very tight budget and many check engine' lights and 'lemon buster' fees later I just purchased a '95 Subaru Legacy AWD wagon.
Many thanks to Juice and all others who have answered my questions and provided advice here in the past months.
The car runs well but will need a little work. It's got over 100k miles and has a few leaks and squeaks but to get into a Subaru awd wagon on my budget that's what I had to settle for.
Now my question for today...
Does anyone know of a good fair reliable Subaru mechanic in Northern New Jersey? I'd rather not pay dealer prices and after all the scams I've encountered looking at used Subaru at the dealers I unfortunately really can't trust them.
I'd like to take the car to someone who really knows subarus - not just your basic 'we do foreign cars' mechanic. I've looked through the local yellow pages but haven't seen anyone that claims to 'specialize' in subarus.
Am I being too fussy? I just want to know that the car will be fixed and fixed right.
I've been burned too many times in the past with other cars by mechanics who didn't know/care what they were doing.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
-Piglet
It might not be the same problem, but I was having trouble with my keyless remote on my Forester. The remotes only seemed to work intermittently -- even if I stood right next to my vehicle.
It turned out that the head unit was faulty and wasn't receiving the signals properly. The dealer installed a new head unit under warranty and the problem was fixed.
Ken
Cheers,
-wdb
As to your comment about the front right passenger door - the other day, during a bit of a cold snap - I noticed that when I was in the car and hit the unlock button on the driver's door, the passenger door mechanism produced a "whining, moaning" sound (no - there wasn't anyone else with me in the car!) as it unlocked. I cycled it several times with the same result - it did unlock - but noisily. Hasn't happened since. I've filed that episode away as something to keep an eye (ear) on for the future. I've had other automatic locks get noisy - but on much older cars (like my '89 Caravan).
The only other comment about the key fob is that it is quite short-range in its operation (even with a fresh battery), and is directionally variable. I can lock or unlock my '97 Maxima from literally several blocks away - and that's with the original battery. Of course, I can also use that transmitter to warm up leftover pizza!
Ken M.
I have also noticed that the range of the remote seemed to increase in a rural area over an urban one. Could this have anything to do with all of the other radio frequencies in an urban area or am I just imagining it?
Tom
By the way, to answer someones question about squeeking brakes. Yes in my 2000 sedan I noticed squeeking on the first few brakes, but not all the time. Don't have an answer, but it did it on that one only, so far.
I love the way Subaru's AWD system handles the road. I was driving in white out conditions during the last snow storm and was doing 35-45 mph, easy with very little sliding or pulling. I feel very safe in the Wagon more than the sedan. Probably because it feels bigger. In the rain I forget about hydroplanning because this car car handle it. I love to drive fast and push the limits. I give the Outback series my vote for the best bang for your buck.
regards,
subaruman
Thanks
Please advise!