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Comments
The clutch chatter definitely happens in reverse. Our OB overnights in our driveway, nose-in to the garage door, and begins its day by backing up a fairly steep driveway. If I'm thinking about it, I can avoid the chatter, but as I don't drive the car a lot (it belongs to the boss), I often forget and get a chattering reminder of my inattentiveness. It can also have in first gear, as noted elsewhere.
Here's a follow-up to someone's earlier post about sloshing sounds in his OB. We had some pretty strange WX in seattle yesterday - thunder, hail, downpours, etc. - not the usual sort of thing out here. The boss mentioned that the car was sloshing on her drive from the Park 'n Ride to the house (the car had been out in all this wild WX). I patronizingly told her I'd check it out, and, by golly, she was absolutely correct. She had mentioned it as a "hill" phenomenon - I simulated it by abrupt braking. I was amazed! Reminded me of the beach! I parked it and looked underneath (it was NOT any of the doors - I checked those first). The water was dripping from just inboard and behind the front left wheel, and at another spot just aft - a few inches in from the rocker panel. I plan to check this out further (maybe do a few experiments), but will also call the dealer to see it this rings a bell - perhaps we're either missing a plug - or have a clogged drain plug somewhere. More on this later.
Ken in Seattle
1800hitchit.com
Almost not noticeable.
Piece o' cake to install.
No cutting of lower valance req'd.
Order the wiring adapter/plug connection too - plugs right in to the OEM wiring plug located behind the right rear cargo trim panel.
Sounds like you have plugged drain. The sunroof has several drains (one at each corner I believe) and the grille at the base of the windshield also has one at each side of the car. Generally, automakers have these routed to the rockers and then slit type drains in the rockers to the street. Check the places it's dripping and use a toothpick or other non-metallic (avoids scratching paint off drainhole edges) thin item to clear the drains.
You must routinely leave the car under a pine tree or other foilage, eh?
IdahoDoug
-Dave
Open the roof fully in a dark area and use a penlight to find the drains in the front two corners of the sunroof opening. You're looking for something blocking it.
In fairly rare cases, the drain tube becomes disconnected at the sunroof level. Very bad news as it's tough to get reconnected. While the sunroof is open you could use a tube, funnel and glass of water to place small amounts of water right at the drainhole to see if it will go down it without causing problems.
The blockages at the sunroof are sometimes a surplus screw or nut accidentally left somewhere up there during assembly.
oregon: the OE hitch will offer the best fit. You'll find better prices from Hidden Hitch or Draw Tite, but the OE hitch offers a perfect custom fit. Even the departure angle is unaffected - the exhaust tip protrudes farther. and you really only see the receiver.
-juice
But...I mentioned to the missus just a couple of days ago that I hadn't heard the noise for a week or two and she concurred. The weather has been a bit dryer of late (meaning heavy rain only every two or three days, this being Vancouver) and the car is left outside all the time. Our driveway slopes down steeply and the car is parked nose in most of the time. Also, as IdahoDoug suggests, it gets covered in pine needles in short order (no way to avoid this unless I park outside someone else's house) and although I do attempt to clean out the drains around the windshield and the tail lights it is impossible to do it properly without dismantling half the car.
The drains in the doors are clear but it is very hard to spot where water should drain out (or not - even harder!) under the car. So I still don't know why this noise appeared magically earlier this year after two years of ownership and now seems to have gone away again. If it isn't the fuel tank perhaps composted pine needles have found their way into the rocker panels and finally blocked the drains.
Next time I wash the car I'll drive it immediately after.
It's simple to check the drains in the cowl. Pour a half glass of water in the cowl on one side of the vehicle and look behind the front tire on that side for a stream coming out to the ground. If it all comes out rapidly on that side the drain's fine. If it takes a long time dribbling out then there's a partial blockage. Repeat on the other side.
-juice
Cheers!
Paul
-mike
I was a little disappointed with the drawbar that Subaru provides (it is not reverseable - can only be used in 'step-up', not 'step-down' mode), but $20 to Reese fixed that little glitch.
Steve
What is a good set of replacement tires for the Firestones? I'd prefer something that didn't squeal in the corners like the Firestones, but I have no idea what to get. FWIW - Tire Rack has the General XP 2000 H4 on sale for $49/tire, as well as the Kumho Ecsta HP4 716 at the same price. Both are HR speed rated. I don't want to spend a bunch, but I won't skimp on safety/grip/etc. either.
Michelin is the best at making perfectly round tires. Ask a tire shop guy who mounts tires all day which ones are always round on the spinner and which require the least weights consistently. I also used to look at industry survey data when I worked for the factories.
Anyhow, these are a bit spendy but they should provide 80,000 miles of service according to the warranty. They use an advanced silica rubber that simultaneously grips better (usually the province of soft tires rubber) and wear well (usually the province of less grippy harder rubbers).
Steve
I'll be towing it across the country. Also, there's some way to disable the AWD system and make the car go to FWD only mentioned in the manual. If this is a physical disconnect of the rear shaft and such, I'd be curious if it will enter into my decisionmaking. Anyone know about this? There's a thing under the hood labeled "FWD" which I believe is for mechanics to use for a dynomometer.
Other tips would be appreciated.
IdahoDoug
-mike
back to subject, jack points.
I asked the dealer service manager, all he would tell me is the notches on the side of the car indicate the jack points, this is the politically correct answer, fear of law suits if someone damages their car jacking it up wrong, they will try to blame the service manager who told them 'where to place the jack'.
Anyway, I snuck into the service bay when a tech had one on the lift and he showed me where he puts the lift, then the service manager chased me away and gave the tech hell, but I found out what I needed to know.
In front, there are two frame looking members branching out diagonally from the front of the car to about halfway back, you can put the jack under either side, unfortunately, there is not a single jack point for the entire front or rear,
if you want to jack up one end you need two jacks, which I have.
In the back, there is a flat spot right inside where the notch is, you can put the jack there.
I am really curious what the shop manual is going to say, eventually HAYNES should come out with one, today, it only goes up to 1996.
For the sides I place the jack on the pseudo-frame rails and lift the whole side of the car.
-mike
Thanks for the input - got any more thoughts about the following?
My original plan (plan A) was to remove the rear drive shaft at the rear diff. This would mean only the rear diff is spinning and there's nothing turning from there forward. I have not looked, but assume I'll find the normal drive shaft with 4 bolts holding flanges when I get under there. If this is done, I cannot imagine that any harm would come to anything for a tow across country.
Plan B came along when I noted there was some way to put the car in FWD, but from what you say it would still not be a good idea. No big deal so back to plan A which in my mind is a guarantee nothing untoward will happen to the tranny.
Do you know if the vehicle can be driven short distances (just to take it off the tow dolly and put it on the dolly) with the rear driveshaft disconnected and the temporary FWD thing engaged? Any idea how to engage the FWD thing (technical term - heh)? You mentioned a fuse in the FWD slot under the hood..? Thanks in advance,
IdahoDoug
I'm new to Subarus as of 3 weeks ago, but I must say this is my 4th experience working on something where I've nodded my head and thought "Wow, THAT was clearly designed to be worked on easily - nice job Subaru." They designed the back of the unit to open up and provide enough room to carefully reach down in there and pull the bulbs out. The unit is simply hanging out of the dash with all connections still in place. Good thing as I was dreading removing the air control cable. Anyhow, I'm liking the Subaru world so far..
Curiously, each bulb was not simply painted green for night lighting but actually covered with a green rubber sock that looks like a condom for a grain of rice. I was able to easily pull one off to confirm the bulb is burnt out, then put it back on (no comments, please). I'll be curious if the new bulbs come with or without these little buggers.
IdahoDoug
-mike
I believe you insert a fuse to make it FWD, but I'm not sure which or how many amps.
I wouldn't drive it like that, though. Take a bicycle with you for quick errands and such. Driving it up the ramp? Maybe, but listen for any strange drive train noises.
Nice job on the dash lights. And I'm glad to hear Subaru practices safe sex. ;-)
Sam: sneaky but effective. I've used those cross members to jack the front up, too.
One of the RV magazines publishes an annual list of "towable" cars, and the Subaru MT's (sans the WRX) have been on that list for years.
Cheers!
Paul
-juice
-mike
I took it in this morning to have it done and they have changed the policy. They now have a large card that displays on one side the owners manual recommendations and associated cafeteria pricing; the other side shows their packaging pricing. Their 15k package was now $139, but the cafeteria approach allowed much cheaper prices for the basics. I liked it: it left the decision making to me and gave them the opportunity to honestly sell their additions. I don't know whether this is a new Subaru policy or the dealer approach.
Mike
Greg
Greg
When I tried the right hand side of the car water appeared almost immediately at the rear of the wheel well. It seems most of the water from the windshield area goes down the wiper holes in the middle and left side, and not much through the small ones on the right. The slots in the middle also appear to drain to the left side.
Assuming that the drains are partially blocked how to find where to unblock? I can see that the black plastic piece below the windshield would probably come off easily and the top area could be cleaned but what about much lower down? The dripping water seemed to exit from behind the front and rear of the plastic wheel well insert, which is probably not easily removed.
Apart from sloshing noises a bigger concern might be water retention in these areas causing rust problems within a few years.
-juice
Paison - Just got back from the dealer. The lights do come with those little green rubber condoms - $6.50 for all three bulbs and they've upgraded them so they'll last "forever" now. Also, confirmed that I can just disconnect the rear drive shaft and put a 10amp fuse under the hood in the thing marked "FWD" and drive it around to my heart's content that way. So, the rears will be on the ground whirling away a diff full of fresh Mobil 1 synthetic gear oil for 2100 miles, and we can still drive it around if needed enroute.
Tires - I put Michelin X1s on my '97 Legacy Wagon Monday and am extremely pleased. According to the Michelin website, these have the best all season traction of all their all season tires, and also beat the rest of their offerings on several other factors. They were a bit over $100 each by the time they were mounted and balanced and the tax was paid. I looked at them on TireRack, but by the time I paid shipping and then paid a shop to mount them the difference was around $10 a tire. I felt it was worth it to have my usual local shop sell and install them as this means I get lifetime free rotations and balancing, free road hazard. These have been notably more quiet than the original factory tires I removed, softer riding, and more stable at speed. Can't yet speak for rain and snow, but they use a special silica compound specifically designed to excel under these conditions (anti-hydroplane design as well).
I'm a tire freak (OK, several other car related item freak also) and can unequivocally say these are seriously good tires. To give you an idea what a tire nut I am, nearly every car I've ever bought has gone straight from the dealership to the tire store for my choice of rubber.
-mike
The FWD feature is designed for use on a dyno, or for other diagnostics. It can be driven this way indefinitely. You just have a front wheel drive Subaru with zero power diverted to the rear shaft. He also said it can be used if you have a flat on the rear and need to drive it that way for an emergency, which would prevent the different wheel diameter issue.
Having said that, I agree with being skeptical of dealers. I'll be testing things here at the house before towing in a couple weeks. One of my biggest questions is does "zero power to the rear" mean literally zippo or is there some residual spinning of the driveshaft from the clutch pack? If the drive shaft simply hangs there limply when I run it around the driveway, I'm good. If it wants to spin the shaft a bit then I'm toast and obviously holding the disconnected driveshaft up with wire will be a bad thing as it may pop itself loose. If so, we're limited to putting the Subaru up and down on and off the dolly and cannot drive it around unless I completely remove the entire rear shaft. So, I'll let you know how this test goes.
Is there anything else you can think of that might be an issue? Thanks.
IdahoDoug
-mike
If anyone contemplates doing this, let me know and I'll do a post with details.
Cptplt - did you by chance drive the X1s on any ice? How many miles on them when you used them for this partial winter? What conditions did they fall down in? I'm hoping to get away with them for this coming winter, though we have a lot of ice here and it is obviously unforgiving to nonwinter tires.
IdahoDoug
-juice
Why not rent a full vehicle trailer instead of a dolly? It just seems safer, less problematic. Unless you own the dolly.
-Brett
Doug: Thanks for the confidence-builder post on those lights. May have to take the plunge.
Cheers!
Paul
Paul - do the lights. The new ones you'll get from the dealer have replaced the ones you have in there and they shouldn't burn out for the life of the car. Plus you get to see those cool little green rubber socks on the bulbs, and clean dust out of the center vents. Let me know and I'll lead you through it, or come out to CDA and we'll do it together.
Brett,
Yes, a full size trailer would be a good call. I have a large enough flatbed trailer (carried my '71 Pontiac LeMans Convertible with it), but the way the Subaru is getting to Michigan is a bit circuitous. It's for my mother in Michigan, but I found it locally here in Idaho. My sister and her family are doing a Western loop in their motorhome a couple weeks from now, and hitting Yellowstone just before heading back to Michigan. So I'm renting a UHaul dolly one way from here. Then I'm towing the Subaru to Yellowstone with my LandCruiser to meet them for about 12 hours (the National Lampoon Summer Vacation equivalent to the Grand Canyon "OK Honey, let's go" tour). Then I get up and hustle back to Idaho and they pull the Subaru home to Michigan.
The reason it needed to be able to move itself enroute is that they are not the best with backing the trailer and prefer to pull it off the dolly if things get dicey at a campground. Yes, I'm going to be chewing my fingernails until they get home on that one. The Subaru is a creampuff and I spent a methodical 3 months looking for it.
That's why the tow dolly - the 1 way factor. I would have to go get my trailer back from Michigan if I use mine. And there are few more miserable tows than pulling an empty tandem trailer - jiggles the tow vehicle like mad with no weight on it.
-mike
I'm in the Valley, about 2.5 miles south of the mall... soon as things settle down a bit, I might take you up on that offer! I'll zip in to Appleway for the bulbs soon - at least I'll have that part done!
Cheers!
Paul
If Appleway doesn't have them, the CDA dealer has a box full - perhaps 30 of each bulb.
IdahoDoug
The salesman also suggested the Forester. He said it had more passenger room than the Legacy, and the cargo room was about the same.
I didn't have a tape measure with me, but to my eyes the Forester's cargo space looked TALLER than the Legacy's, but certainly not deeper. They look about the same width (wheel well to wheel well).
So...is the salesman right about this? I'm trying to plan ahead for two small kids, a stroller, portable crib, etc.
I took the Forester (2003 model) for a test drive as well. I'm not too sure about the interior materials. The "golf ball" dash and upper door material looks like a dust/dirt magnet to me, and the center consol plastic looks like it was borrowed from a Nissan Xterra/Altima.
Still, the Forester has more standard features than the Legacy (2002), and better ground clearance (I live in NE Ohio, so occasionally we get a little snow ;-) ).
Decisions, decisions...