Subaru Legacy/Outback

ironsides1 · January 2003

We have two '92 Legacy wagons with deflectors and I was never sure how effective they were until I drove our '00 Outback for a year without one. Yes, a deflector reduces the amount of crud that accumulates on the rear window. We have an acrylic dust deflector on our '02 Legacy SE wagon. Looks good and works better that the rear wing.

Jon

bat1161 · January 2003

I have the rear deflector on my 00 OB and feel its worth it. It helps to keep most of the rain and dust off the rear; nothing seems to help that much in the snow.

Mark

goosegog · January 2003

We have the spoiler. It works, but not as well as the one I had on my 78 Dodge. I like the look, but then I like the old 50's style external sun visors too.

hurler4 · January 2003

Are there any differences between these two cars? I can get the 2003 (with a stick) for only $19,500, but a new 2002 (also with a stick) is $20,500. Doesn't seem to make sense...

rsholland · January 2003

The GT has different headlights (4-bulb vs 2-blub), and a sport suspension.

Bob

pschreck · January 2003

Can anybody tell me when the Outback wagons are due for redesign? Thanks in advance.

myuen · January 2003

I am looking to get the best price (Dealer Invoice +/-) for a new 2003 H6-VDC wagon. I was quoted what I think is a good price (i.e. below dealer cost).

What is a "competitive" price to you? (assume paying cash, no trade-in, etc.) Thanks.

rsholland · January 2003

should be all-new for MY05, here in the USA. The new redesign may(?) be introduced in Japan this spring, however.

Bob

red927 · January 2003

There are more differences between the L/SE and the GT. The GT has a power driver's seat, different seat fabric, variable speed wipers, limited slip differential and some additional fake wood on the dash.

Phil

hurler4 · January 2003

Does $20,500 seem reasonable for a 2002 GT Wagon with a stick? I had a chance to get one for $19,500 at another dealer, but someone bought it before I did.
My other choice is a new 2002 Mazda Protege 5 with a stick, and loaded with every option for $15,100. The MSRP is $19,100. It seems like $5400 is a big difference between the two cars, even with the extra size and AWD of the GT Wagon.

anibalb · January 2003

Hello all,

I haven't been in here in ages. That is because the Subie is reliable. I am considering selling our 01 Outback ltd (22K miles). What is a realistic price that I should get for it? I am in the Bay Area. There is nothing wrong with the car, I am contemplating buying a mercedes for the wife. It got its first flat tire. Took it to the dealer and they don't fix flats!!!! Oh man. But they gladly charge $40 bucks for an oil change.

I would love feedback on the value. Thanks all......

toboggan · January 2003

Been using them for years on vans and now my '98 OBW. Yes, there still is some crud that sticks to the rear window. Try using Rain-X. That seems to help the deflector during rain and splashing from driving.

Toboggan

revka · January 2003

Regarding Outback value - You should try plugging your vehicle into Edmunds' Used Vehicle Appraiser. This will give you an average price in your region. You may also want to check out this page at Edmunds.com, which will direct you to some online selling services.

Also, please be aware that advertising is not allowed in our Town Hall discussions; in support of this rule, messages that inadvertently advertise... may also be subject to deletion. Feel free to send me an email if you have any questions/comments. Good luck, and thanks for your participation at Town Hall. ;-)

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

hypov · January 2003

Anibal-
Just for your reference. I had a 1998 Outback Limited with 26,203 miles, and the insurance valued it @ a tat under $19,000.00.
Hope it is some help with where to start.

-Dave

anibalb · January 2003

Dave,

I used this website and it values my 01 OB at 19 tops. Wow that is a lot lower than I would think. Either that or your insurance is great. Oh well. I will look locally I guess and see what they are going for.

Thanks.

hypov · January 2003

Anibal-
Well, here's the value from Kelly Blue Book
for the '01 OB @ 22k miles in excellent condition:
Private Party = 21k
Trade-in = 18k

-Dave

p/s: I too thought either I have a good insurance company, or I really took care of the car... I like to think the later. ;-)

xccoachlou · January 2003

You can buy an '03 for about 21.2K with stick, 22K with auto.

So, at those prices, why buy a used one with 20K+ miles?

hypov · January 2003

Guess that's the bad part 'bout Subaru holding its value.

-Dave

dcab · January 2003

KBB values are asking price for private party and retail values. I suspect it would be pretty difficult getting "excellent" trade-in value unless the dealer was making it back on the new car's price.

KBB's retail value on an 02 Outback 5-speed with 15k miles is $22870, which is $1600 more than new 03's are being advertized in the paper here. Plus, the 03's come with the cold weather package and CD player standard.

sebberry · January 2003

Where I live, there are a lot of young male drivers (I happen to fall into this category) who drive 4 cylinder "sports" cars, you know, the ones with the fart cannon mufflers, super bright headlamps and the rest.

Now, for some reason, these poor unsuspecting souls like to intimidate us wagoneers by pulling right up behind with the full array of 10 fog lamps, super white headlamps and neon-backlit grilles, especially when approaching a steep hill. In the rain.

My favorite trick, at night, usually when there are fewer drivers on the road is to touch the brake pedal to activate my brake lights, really get 'em riled up, then to smoothly take off up the rain slicked hill full control, while they are dealing with an assortment of torque steer, wheel spin and a sluggish 4 banger.

I guess they didn't notice the H6 logo on the back of my "little slug of a wagon"

In an un-related scene, that poor Eagle Talon didn't know what was comming up behind him on the highway...

Oh yes, those looking at the Outback Limited, you might not find too much more city power from the H6, but it really shines on the highway when loaded down with luggage for the mountain camping trip.

Bye for now

paisan · January 2003

I get the same thing with the SVX on the highway. Of course once I unleash the h6 power they are nothing but a spec in the rearview.

-mike

simon_tx · January 2003

I'm not a wagon owner, but I've been following this forum recently and was looking for some thoughts on wagons.

I currently drive a 2000 Maxima GLE. It is a nice car, pretty much loaded. It is very comfortable, powerful, stylish and all that jazz.

Recently I have found that I want my car to have more functionality.

What are people's impressions of the Subaru's or comparable wagons.

I'm most interested in how people view the differences in power between the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder cars. I have almost unlimited power now, but I'm not sure I really need it. What I seem to need power for is to pass people as I drive like a maniac on the highway trying to get places. I rarely do rapid acceleration from a stop, but I do a pretty fair amount of urban-highway driving (I live in Dallas).

Also - any thoughts about what is better - manual or automatic. I seem to prefer automatics now that I do more city driving, but prior I owned only manuals.

I would like the ride to be comfortable, at least for 4 adults (total). I recall the Subaru's seats being quite a bit more narrow than any sedans I test drove. Can three people sit comfortably in the back seat? What is rear leg room like - especially behind driver (I'm only 5'10", but I tend to drive a little further back than most people).

Any ideas are appreciated.

As a side note: I've been looking closely at the Outback Limited vs. the LL Bean

It seems to me the Limited has virtually everything the Bean has except the H6 and half an inch ground clearance.
Limited looks like quite a bargain considering it is nearly $3K less than Bean.
Any owners have comparison thoughts?

bravadajon · January 2003

I drive a 03 LL Bean Wagon (auto and H6).

I am 6'4" tall.

I doubt if you could have three adults being comforrtable in the rear seat...two okay.

I have had two reliable Subarus in the past. The H6 is a much better engine for the wagon...more power. I use the third gear for zippy city driving. Drive is fine for highway action.

The H6 calls for premium gas, although you can get away with lower octane. I still use the premium.

The wagon is extremely functional...and that AWD is the best....but be advised it 'taint no sports car.

I have heard rumors about a turbo charged engine coming out in some of the models.....that would make it like a Porsche.

Good luck

ladywclass · January 2003

I have a 2001 Subaru Ouback wagon and it's a four-cylinder. I love this wagon for the snow, but I have also driven it in Texas on visits to family. I have lived in the Houston and Dallas areas both. The only time I miss the "power" with my 4 cylinder is when I'm getting onto a highway that quickly moves to an overpass. You do have to be aware that it will take a little longer to go from 0 to the 80 that they drive on a lot of those highways at off-rush hour times. If I were moving on and off those freeways regularly, I would want at least the 6 cylinder. I also can't believe you even consider the manual doing the highway driving in city!
The boyfriend and I have put our kids in the back together for SHORT trips only. As they are as big as adults at this point, they are not terribly comfortable with 3 in the backseat. Two is fine, and legroom is fine with two. (They are 20, 14, and 12.)
My 2 cents...

irish24 · January 2003

YOU should sit in the backseat and have the salesperson drive. I've done that. The salespeople think you're nuts but that is only bkz sometimes that
can break (or make) a sale. Make sure he goes around a few corners too.

nygreg · January 2003

Overall, it has acceptable acceleration for me. I do feel it lacks when you try to accelerate from, say 15mph. The tranny doesn't tend to downshift. However, if you use the gated shifter it is usually fine. As far as "practicality" goes, this wagon is great. It is also a lot of fun to drive, hugs the roads, smooth, absorbs bumps really well and feels solid. I would like to drive a GT which has even better handling. Sounds like you would prefer the H6 though. As for rear seat, consider it a 2 adult size. Can't wait for the B4.

Greg

hashman · January 2003

New tires (Kumho Ecsta H4 716) and fresh snow...perfect situation for an OB...sticks well to the road. Also see mpg improvements. I have the H4 EAT. Pretty peppy 4 banger. I think it has plenty of power. Acceleration from an overpass onto a freeway is OK...there were moments trying to squeak for speed to pass or catch up so you can "slide" into traffic. I did test drive the H6...WOW! It does move. But the H4 is plenty and moves enough for me.
At 5'11" the back seats is ample especially the leg and head room. I thru my nephews (6' and 6'2") and myself in the back while my brother took it for a test drive...it was tight shoulder wise but lengthwise it was fine...a size 13 shoe stuck under the front seat...he's ok. Also the back, center head rest is a nice feature for three but better for the grandkid seat.
It sounds the rear deflector works. Will look into getting one. Like the Rain X idea.

ncvol · January 2003

Recognizing that any station wagon is not a sports car, how is the body roll on an Outback Wagon? I have a Ford Explorer right now, and I'd love to reduce that aspect of the driving experience so I'm very much looking at wagons. Is there a noticeable difference?

paisan · January 2003

I dunno, I'd never auto-x an exploder, but I've raced several stock outbacks w/o issue

-mike

kmclean · January 2003

Howdy! Does your username suggest you live in Texas? I'll include that assumption in my note.

I own both a 1997 Maxima SE (5-speed) and 2000 OB Ltd wagon (H4, 5-spd), so a compare and contrast is easy. Bottom line - they're very different, and I love them both.

The Max is a rocket compared to the OB (I suspect that would be true even of the H6), and it has vastly more room in the back seat (especially leg/hip room). On the other hand, the cargo bay and the AWD of the OB are its big functional advantages (from my viewpoint), hence our use (in the Seattle area) of the OB for most long trips and all ski trips. If you're in Texas (I lived in San Antonio for 5 years - which is where I bought the Max), I'm not certain the AWD would be much of an advantage.

I've found the amenities and gadgets of the two cars to be roughly comparable, but I'd say the fit and finish of the Max is at least one notch above the OB. Also, the Max regularly gets better mileage (3-4 mpg) than the OB, although it does use premium fuel.

Reliability-wise, I'd say they're roughly the same, but would give the edge to the Max (realizing this is a sample of one each).

If I were in Texas, had to regularly carry four adults, didn't head "off-road" much, and didn't need the cargo bay to haul my stuff, I'd recommend the Max (have you seen the new '04 about to go on sale in March?!). In Seattle, if I had to keep only one car, I'd keep the OB (that's why this place is crawling with them).

If you're set on an automatic, I'd definitely recommend the H6 over the H4, even in the Lone Star state. Personally, I've found the H4 with a 5-speed more than adequate - even in mountainous areas and carrying a full load.

BTW, just under 24K on the Max, and just over 29K on the OB.

Glad to answer any other questions.

Cheers from Seattle!

Ken M.

bat1161 · January 2003

I drive a 00 5spd OBW and love it. The only time I notice any difference is when getting onto a highway. You have to give yourself a little bit of time to get up to cruising speed (65-75). However, once you are at that speed there is no problems keeping up, or passing. I drive a 5spd in NYC, and while it may get frustrating at times, I would not trade it for the world. I feel the 5spd gives it a more sporty ride, and will not go to an automatic unless forced to.

Mark

paisan · January 2003

That Bat1161's H4 Outback does quite well, even at speeds >90mph through the mountains of PA he easily kept up with the WRXs and SVXs on our 48hr 1500 mile trip

-mike

tidester · January 2003

If you have driven through PA then you KNOW what the penalties are for driving that far over the posted speed limits - and you know they are among the steepest in the country!

tidester, host

bravadajon · January 2003

Very little to none in my LL Bean 03 Outback Wagon...stable and sticky in the curves. I bet the VDC Wagon would be even better for your desires...more bucks though. I have previously owned a Bravada SUV and F-150 SuperCrew Pickup so I know body roll.

paisan · January 2003

Yeah but the points don't go back to NY

and we were driving in a nice pack so the chances of getting tagged were slim to none

Safe Motoring

If you only knew what we topped out at you'd have a heart attack right in front of your PC

-mike

tidester · January 2003

If you only knew what we topped out at you'd have a heart attack right in front of your PC

LoL! I won't ask if you won't ask! :-)

tidester, host

sebberry · January 2003

Hey there,

On the '03 Outbacks, they have added internal rebound springs in the front suspension. This works to greatly reduce body roll, nosedive on hard braking, and front lift on accelleration. Combined with the boxer engine which sits lower in the engine bay, it all ads up to less body roll, I believe, than some cheap sedans I have driven.

It's good in corners, grips well in the wet, and driving inputs through steering, braking and acceleration are transmitted to the road smoothly.

Keep in mind that the Outback employs 4 wheel indepdent long travel suspension that helps even more for stability.

Some new sedans, such as the Corolla don't use a fully independent rear suspension.

The result, the Outback is smooth and well controlled.

Take one for a drive. If you can't afford the H6, don't drive it, because you will want it.

Hope that helps.

hypov · January 2003

Steep.
I would think so. On top of it all, how do you fight a ticket that cites you for "driving at safe speed"?

"Your Honor, I plea not guilty to the charge that I was driving at safe speed".

-Dave

ffsteve · January 2003

Simon, I also went from a sedan to the Outback wagon (Bean) to gain the added functionality of the wagon body style. The previous Toyota Cressida was a wonderful car, but the Bean fully replaces it in the creature comforts, passenger room, driving experience, and reliability departments. The Bean exceeds the Cressida for cargo hauling, gas mileage, and non-paved road capability.

As Sebbery said above, don't drive the H6 if you think a 4 would suffice - one test drive made the decision for me!

At 22k miles, I haven't had a single problem with the car. I get 20-22 mpg in mixed city driving, 24-25 in two lane roads over the mountains, and 26-27 mpg during 70-80mph highway driving.

sebberry · January 2003

I was at the coffee shop this evening, and walking back to my Outback I spotted a friend behind it (he didn't know that I have it) and a few of his friends who I don't know.

I told him that I got the car, and someone had the audacity to call it a "family of five mobile"

The friend I was with at the time and I got into the car and he had me drive out to a road he thought was fun to drive on (Tight turns, narrow, hilly, and on this night, wet.). He knows someone with an Acura RSX who frequently takes the road at 70Km/h, but no more.

While laughing at my "family of 5 mobile", I managed to break 90Km/h on the road, with no problems. I did the road 3 times.

He was actually puching me to consider an RSX over the wagon thinkng I would have more fun...

Even he commented how it felt like it was running on tracks.

And let me tell you, it gripped.

Outback H6-3.0 Wagon. (CDN version of the USA Beaner)

lucien2 · January 2003

the stealth aspect of these cars is one of their best attributes! And it is a far more stylish and engaging choice than minivans or SUVs IMHO, and safer too (from a rollover perspective).

matty3 · January 2003

Hi. I have a 1997 GT wagon which has been showing decreased gas mileage of late (about 25% lower than it gets in the summer months). The car is in Boston and has about 67,000 miles on it. I have noticed that the temperature gauge is below center even after being driven on the highway for upwards of an hour. Could the thermostat be that much of an issue in overall mileage? Does anyone have any other ideas as to what the problem may be? Further, if it is the thermostat, does anyone have a ballpark as to what it might cost to replace? Thanks for any help you can offer.

ncvol · January 2003

Thanks a lot for all the great responses, re: body roll. The more I research it, the more this looks like my next vehicle.

paisan · January 2003

I doubt that the t-stat is the problem, in the winter I always drop 2-3mpg or more on my cars. Where does your temp guage usually run @ highway speeds? On the highway your car will run cooler than in the city due to more efficient cooling of the radiator, especially in the winter.

As for the T-stat, replacing it is pretty cheap and easy to do, it's about a $10 part and ~1-2hrs of time if you never did it before.

-mike

nygreg · January 2003

My mpg drops in the winter months, both on my OB and Sienna.

Greg

matty3 · January 2003

The t-stat is a bit lower than dead center at all times once the car has heated up. I know the mileage will drop in cold weather, it just seemed like a larger drop than one would expect. Perhaps I just need to back off the pedal a bit too. My mileage has dropped about 5-6 mpg. That said, my pick-up seems to be lagging as well. I fear I am opening a whole new can of worms with that comment, however. I am going to have the car serviced in about 500 miles, is there anything I should have checked to specifically address mileage decrease? Thanks again for the responses.

paisan · January 2003

That might be a sign of a clogged cat, lower MPG + Lower power, although not necessarily.

As for the temp running below center, both my SVX and my Dad's Legacy Runs less than Center for the temp @ operating temp. (except when I run the SVX @ Limerock Race Course @ 5500rpms for 20 min

)

-mike

lark6 · January 2003

Does the Boston area use reformulated gasolines during the winter months? If so that could have an effect on your decreased gas mileage as well. Having the thermostat and catalytic converter checked at your next service, if not sooner, is a good idea.

Good luck,
Ed

hashman · January 2003

I've asked my uncle who works at AAA and says yes: many North eastern and Mountain states will have gas additives to help against fuel freeze ups...particularly using ethanol to lower the freezing points on some gas grades as well as being used as "fillers". This does have effect to the efficiency on engines. I guess it's better than having fuel line freeze ups. I would say this is normal...but it wouldn't hurt to have the thermostat and cat checked out. Is the "check engine" light on?

matty3 · January 2003

There is no check engine light and I believe additives are used in the fuel up here. I will have the cat checked as well. Thanks for all the suggestions and help.

Subaru Legacy/Outback

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