8.8sec to 60mph was their best time. Usually you can add 0.5 to 1.0 sec to get the real time. So probably mid 9-sec range. I believe they said 0.8 sec faster than the H4. I dont believe that. My guess is that its 9.5sec for the VDC -vs- 11.5sec for the H4. I think this is the same mag that reported that you could get a mid 5sec 0-60 with the S2000....you could.....if you want a new clutch every other launch.
I am the proud owner of a 01 Wintergreen Outback. I just came back from a 1500 mile road trip to Las Vegas/Death Valley. My car performed flawlessly. Avg 25 mpg. My only concern is this car is a dog at any altitude over 3500 to 4000 feet. It hunts between 3rd, 4th going over any grade above 4000 feet. Left in 3rd it will hit 60 mph at 5000rpm. Thank god I live at sea level.
Unfortunatley it won't help you James, but another reason why the 5speed is so great. I've been to 11,000 ft and had no problem getting my 00 GT to purr right along.
I read one review where an H6 reached 60 in 8.3s and still managed an average of 26mpg (EPA is 20/27), which is an impressive combination.
I've also seen some LL Beans no-dicker priced at $28.3k, several actually, at www.fitzgeraldautomall.com.
Fair enough, the hood prop rod is a cost cutting measure, and the spare is a donut, but we could just as easily pick on Volvo.
(warning: rant ahead)
For example, the seats are awesome but the head rests are ridiculously large and blocked my view. How safe it that?
I also found the suspension floaty and anything but confidence-inspiring. The 215/65 tires may be at fault - pretty lame rubber. The auto tranny is so slow to react I had to tip it at 4000rpm to get a shift at redline, so I don't see the point of it, especially since the auto works fine by itself.
Plus, over $35 grand and leather and a moonroof are still not included? And 18/22 mpg is dreadful compared to the H6 Subarus.
You could argue Volvo is a luxury marque, but I could paraphrase a friend and say it's a Fjord. Plus it's based on the *very* unreliable S80, so the reliability will never touch what Subaru offers. If you disagree take some time to read what people in this Town Hall have said. They are quite vocal about their problems.
A friend of mine claims to have an offer on the table for $28 even for the LL Bean in the Orange County area of Southern CA but I dont know exactly where. He is thinking it over with a trip to Alaska of all places. If true and the Bean can be had at $28 or below, then the LL Bean mave have taken over the best deal title from the now defunct Brighton Wagon. Remember the Brighton? WOW that was a great deal. For either late 99 or early 2k it also had ABS. May have even had it before that but I remember seeing it then.
I have just rejected the ML because of too many reviews about poor snow performance, and now I read that the VDC mechanism (which brakes spinning wheels) may be a problem on snow as well. See review:
In addition, you can't defeat the VDC in the subie, like you can defeat the similar mechanism in the Mercedes ML. If the VDC detects spinning wheels in snow - will it slow the vehicle down? Anyone have one in snow yet?
We had nearly decided on an Outback Limited, but during a test drive today, discovered we cannot put our son's car seat in the center back due to the 'ridge' down the middle. I've always thought that the center back was recommended, so I called Subaru for more info. Was advised that they can't recommend what brands of child seats will fit as they haven't tested them. What's the scoop on child seats and the safest location for kids to ride? We plan to have just one child, and would like to have the sides available for adults when we have visitors... (Can't get the built-in child restraint on the Limited; only on the regular Outback.)
Andy: Subaru says the traction control system is less invasive than most, allowing the AWD to work first, and only then will it interfere.
Regardless, if you don't want the electronic babysitter, just get the cheaper H6 model and save $4000 canadian. Similarly, US customers can get the LL Bean and save a bundle.
Sarah: sounds like you didn't get a very knowledgeable sales person. At least one without young kids.
I believe the 2001s have the LATCH/ISOFIX anchors that mate with the new child seats out there. Tether anchors were available a few years earlier. You may want to purchase the new seats that are made for these anchors, or at least one with a tether kit.
The middle of the back seat is the safest place. The trick is to push the child seat down into the seat very firmly, even if that means putting your knee into it to get it tight. Get help if necessary. Tight is right.
Once you get the seat in firmly, the trick is to use one of those locking clips to hold the belt's length in place for future use (if you remove and have to reinstall the seat). In my case, I had to twist the belt base to make it shorter because it was at an awkward length for our seat.
Then attach the tether, which tightens easily (and prevents the seat from moving forward in an impact).
ISOFIX makes it all easier, but any seat should fit. You can even get help from a local fire department, or a Mercedes dealer, or even the store where you bought your seat.
Pardon the rant, child safety is sort of one of my pet peeves.
Could you guys check two things for me that I forgot to do during my test drive?
First: The 2k Outback Ltd. (and probably all the Legacy based models) has this annoying rattle when you close the door with the window down. Makes an otherwise great car sound cheap. If yours does it you know what I'm talking about. Does not rattle when you drive, just when you close the doors with the windows down. 1) Roll the window down all the way on the driver and/or passenger side 2) Open and close either door firmly with the window down 3) Listen for a rattle or any indication that the window is banging around in there. The hollow rattle should be pretty obvious if its still there.
Second: Some or all(?) 2k OB Ltd. (and perhaps other OB models but not(?) Legacy models) make this muted ticking sound when you turn on the defroster on cold days. The sound is like an expansion of the dash or something to that nature. Its our second winter and its still doing it. No better no worse. It makes the sound for about 5min and then goes away. You cannot hear it with the radio on and you really cant hear it if you put the defrost on high. 1) Wait for a cold day (in the 32degF/0decC range) 2) Turn on the defroster on low (1 or 2) after the car has warmed up a little. 3) Listen for a ticking sound from the dash. In some OBs its really quiet and others its pretty noticeable. Ours seems to be medium.
The first thing is far more annoying than the second. I want to know if they fixed the first one and if the second one is just restricted to the 2k model year. Small complaints really. Its a great car when you can complain about things like ticking noises and the subwoffer that dont affect driveability or ergonomics. The exact opposite of my now traded in Ford Contour.
I also rented an Outback wagon from Hertz (in Colorado). Then I rented a 2nd time and requested an Outback again and was very disappointed when I found a Mitsubishi Montero waiting for me. Hertz said they couldn't guarantee the exact car I asked for, but could only provide what's available in the city, on the day of rental, from the similar class of vehicle. So just be aware that you may request an Outback, but they may give you something different. :-(
All of the 2k+ Legacy based Subarus have frameless windows in the doors and make the rattle sound when closed with window down.
The ticking is also common. I don't use defrost much here in CA but in hot weather when I pull the window shades out of the front window I hear the same sound as the dash heats up.
If you have the time and don't mind the inconvenience you can wait for the car you requested to be returned. If you rent at an airport (I rent at SFO) the turnover is huge. I have several times waited to get what I wanted sometimes exchanging cars later in the day. Never been a problem other than one time when I wanted a V6 Camry and could only get a Taurus. Hertz customer service rep stepped in and gave me a brand new Volvo V70. That was for a month long road trip!
I know it sounds like I am being a pain in the butt... but I try and be nice with the counter person explaining I am willing to wait or come back when the car I want is available. They always seem more than willing to accommodate. In fact the give me a local number to call and check if the car I want is in.
I took an LLBean H6 for a short (1hour) test-drive here in Colorado and thought I'd post some thoughts from that experience for everyone.
As has been noted a lot of times, I was also very unimpressed with the *available* power in the H6 with the auto-tranny. Hey Subaru, what gives? The engine sounds like it has plenty of depth (power wise) but when you floor it, nothing happens. Okay, it does actually accelerate, but so slloooowwwly. It does this from a standing start (acceptable I guess, but makes merging with traffic a bit more difficult), but more importantly it does this at speed too (despite what the sales-guy promised).
At 65mph on the freeway, I tried to pull into the high-speed lane to overtake another vehicle, but when I put my foot down, I got almost no power at all. The auto-tranny wouldn't drop into 3rd by itself, so all that happened was that I slowly accelerated in 4th. (It does give some indication of the available power though, since this acceleration was up hill at 65-70mph at an altitide of 6000 feet). I didn't try dropping it into 3rd manually (equivalent of turning off the overdrive on other autos) though, since with the accelerator pressed against the firewall, this shouldn't be necessary (its supposed to be an auto-tranny after all). It especially concerns me from a safety point of view, since it means I can't rely on just the use of the accelerator to accelerate out of a danger situation.
So, its definitely not like any auto I've ever driven before (and I mean this in a negative way). Also not what I expected given Subaru's comments on the vehicle specifications which state "This transmission has an automatic power mode that engages with rapid use of the accelerator pedal" (from their web-site). If this feature really is present, I wonder exactly how rapidly I should have pressed the pedal to engage this? Maybe I should'a pumped it?
Given what it feels like the engine could deliver, I would have loved to have seen this engine in a 5 speed.
I also noted the strange behavior of the automatic climate control, since it kept switching between warm air (desired cabin temp of 70F) and cold air (probably direct from outside, which was 45F or so). It made for a very annoying experience, since for driving comfort I had to fiddle with the controls more than if I had a simple manual control. (I have automatic climate control on my jeep, and it works like it should, so this is definitely a fault in the Subaru design somewhere).
Apart from the available power issues, has anyone else compared the auto-tranny performance (shifting speeds, acceleration, etc.) between any of the H4 and H6 models? I'm hoping to do a comparison with an H4 (OB ltd) soon myself...
Hello originalbitman. Could you define "purr right along" at 11000 feet? The H-4 ( 5sd or auto ) probably makes 90hp or less at that altitude. Were you going down hill?
I test drove the new H6 and found that the new 212hp engine is pretty responsive. I was curious about the 0-60 times and sent an email to Subaru. It is faster than the A4 Quattro and the Passat 4Motion! The following is their response:
"Thanks for your reply. This morning, I received a message from our Product Public Relations Manager in response to your inquiry. He advised that third parties hadn't yet thoroughly tested the car, but had been giving their driving impressions. Although we generally don't give manufacturer testing information, this manager recalled that Fuji Heavy Industries' tests indicated 8.5 seconds for the 0-60 stats. This isn't as high as you seemed to think, and it could be that a third party would get a slightly different number, but I hope that this information is helpful.
Your favorable remarks about Subaru are appreciated. I hope that you will soon be a Subaru owner! Best wishes!"
Denise Schwartz Subaru of America, Inc. Customer/Dealer Services Department
It is exactly this sort of thing that makes people like me buy standards. More power, more responsiveness, always in the right gear (if you know how to drive), etc. Looks to me as if you subconciously want a standard. Go for the H4 with a 5 speed, and save big bucks too.
Monarch Pass on Hwy 50 in Colorado and it was going up hill. 2000 GT wagon with 5 speed, 2 adults, 1 dog and all our gear. Okay, maybe purr is an overstatement and yeah I was in 3rd gear. But It was by no means a stressful situation where I felt desperate to get over the top or out of the way. It might have something to do with the fact that my previous car was an 1983 Civic wagon with AT but I still feel the Soob was more than up to the task... especially with the stick.
I was given a brand new Ford Focus wagon to drive. It's not bad, but it's not my OB. I feel like I'm driving a squatty minivan in it, and it has a more "tinny" feel. The acceleration isn't too bad, it's a auto of course and I'm used to manual. It does have a CD player though, I'll have to move putting one in my baby up on the priority list!
Car and Driver does have a complete test of the VDC. Their best 0-60 was reported as 8.8 sec or 0.8 sec faster than the H4. Its the only one I have personally seen. That review was not so kind to the VDC. While I think the VDC is overpriced I would not quite go as far as they did. The 8.5 that Fuji reported or that 8.3 that juice found or the 8.8 in C&D may not translate to every day driving. Usually their times are under ideal conditions (which is fine) and they frequently use tricks like rev the engine in gear with the brake applied then release the brake quickly (which is sneaky). You can get 0.5 sec doing that in some autos. Perhaps even more for the ones with AWD. Better measure in my opnion are the flying start 5-60 or top gear 35-75. When I test drove the LL Bean and just smashed the gas from a full stop I was in the high 9s and low 10s. My unoffical numbers say its 1.5 sec faster than the H4 auto. The VDC is about 3800lbs and has 212 hp. The Acura TL is 3450lbs and has 225hp. The Acura gets to 60 in a little over 8sec (7.9-8.3sec). The VDC has more weight to carry, the burden of AWD traction, and less hp. I'll stick with my mid 9 sec claim for a resonable 0-60 in a well broken in H6. I think the VDC would need about 250hp to really get into the 8s. BUT keep in mind that 0-60 burns are not what the VDC is all about. I hope thats not the reason people are buying it....I think they would be disappointed. If you want fast 0-60 save a few more pennies and get the Volvo T5 Wagon with a 5 spd. That HPT is one heck of a good time. The VDC is really for people who want the latest in active AWD technology but dont want an SUV. Once its selling for $30k it will be a great deal.
Car & Driver also tested a 4Motion and it took 9.4 seconds (if I remember correctly, it may have been longer) in 0-60 tests.
So compared a similar AWD wagon, it's not bad. I think the XC is as quick, but it's also much more expensive and lacks the stability control of the VDC.
Thanks for the info on attaching child car seats, Juice. I also have an e-mail from Subaru (which does not mention the LATCH/ISOFIX anchors), but will do some more checking. What do people think about the comparative safety of the Outback vs. Honda CRV? We assume that the Outback would be much less likely to roll, and like the availablity of side air bags on the Outback as well.
I'm sure on of the major car rags is going to do a comparison test between the VDC, 4-Motion, and Volvo XC. This is such a natural comparison, it's really a no-brainer. Then... the truth will be known!
I do have to concur with everyone (well, most everyone) who feels the H-6 doesn't deliver what's been promised. I feel very strongly about this when it comes to every-day-stop-'n-go-driving -- the kind of driving the vehicle will spend 95% of its time doing. Yeah, if you floor it, it moves out smartly. It just doesn't feel like it does that most of the time.
I'm sure there will be plenty of tests, and I'm sure the VDC may win some and lose others. It'll be hard to see editors drop their bias against a car that is "inexpensive and built to stay that way".
The CR-V was "Marginal" in IIHS crash tests, but did well in NHTSA tests. It doesn't have rear disc brakes, rear LSD, side air bags, center shoulder belt, seat belt pre-tensioners or force limiters, so it really doesn't measure up to the Outback for safety features.
before we got the Outback. Having to open the back window before the door was trouble.(the dog goes everywhere with me). The Oct 2000 Consumer Reports issue stated that on their crash test on the CRV that it rolled on its side. Thats all I needed to hear to rule this out. Hope this helps.
...and built to stay that way" will be tough for Subaru to overcome. It's a strong slogan/image that has worked well for Subaru.
My guess is that after all the testing is done, the VDC will end up mid-pack somewhere. As expensive as it is, it is still a excellent value when compared to the euro AWDs.
Now, if it just had some of their techi-features such as 5-speed auto, tiptronic, and, of course... a 5-speed manual, it would probably clean up the awards. :-,
RB Equip,- Base OB RL Equip,- Base OB w/ integrated Child seat GB Equip,- Base OB w/ All Weather Package (AWP) GL Equip.- Base OB w/ Integrated child seat & AWP
"I don't give an RA about how long it takes to get me there."
Which is why we have the H4 and did not wait for the H6 once the rumors of it cracking $30k started. Tell you the truth if the OB was available with the 2.2L with all the stuff in the Ltd. AND it would get better MPG I would have looked into it. As long as its under 12-14sec to 60mph its fine with me.
Predicted finish order: (reliability aside) 1) XC: Its a bigger, safer, more comfortable wagon for more money. A lot more money.
Tie 2) 4-Mo and VDC: I have driven the LL Bean but not the VDC (yet). I guess on paper size, price, and the cool stuff factor is about equal between the VDC and the 4-Mo. I really like the 4-Mo and how it drives and feels. To me it felt more stable at high speeds than the LL Bean and had less wind noise. The VDC would have the state of the art active AWD system + everything in the Bean version I drove + a fancy stereo. If pushed I would take the 4-Mo over the LL Bean today and all government holidays but on Friday, Monday, Sunday, and alternate Thursdays I'll take the VDC.
Allroad (sp?) would probably be right up there with the Volvo XC, both in performance and price. Actually... my gut feeling is that it would be a better performer than the Volvo, and be more expensive too.
It will be interesting as to how they get ranked. It certainly will be worth more than a few posts on these boards!
Hi, Can anyone explain me what is the precise purpose of battery warmer and engine block heater available for subarus. I know it's easier something in cold weather, but don't know exactly what this all about.
Good morning. After reading about others ripping the H6 up one side and down the other I have to throw this in. We must all be test driving different versions of the H6. A couple of weeks ago I drove an Outback Ltd. at 4 different dealerships in southern PA. - 2 sticks and 2 auto's. They both felt pretty much the same to me - a little doggy like my 4 yr. old Pathfinder, which has a stick (because of the dogginess of their auto). As soon as you gave the Ltd. auto gas it would downshift and rev loudly. Last week I drove the Bean-mobile. (If they just would have left that *** logo off, instead of copying Ford's Eddie Bauer). I noticed the difference in responsiveness of the Bean immediately - right away when pulling out of the dealership AND getting on the freeway and passing - no downshifting and revving even when pressed.
After driving and being pitched around by the hulking Pathfinder daily (still the smoothest riding TRUCK I've driven)the H6 was like a breath of fresh air. I guess variety is the spice of life. Has anyone read about anyone taking delivery of a VDC yet? Tom S.
From the impressions I hear, it sounds like the H6 is fine, but the tranny some times gets in the way, not choosing the right gear and making the best use of available power.
Maybe they used the same settings as for the H4, and need to reprogram it? A 5 speed would be nice, given VW and Volvo have them.
Tiptronic only if it really works. Both VW and Volvo systems are pitifully slow to shift.
The VW needs more power, and it's getting it along with a face lift. That'll make the competition tough. I found the seats hard and the interior is a bit cold for a near luxury car.
The Volvo is just all wrong, at least for my tastes. I test drove one and was utterly unimpressed. Very slow tiptronic, gawdy plastics inside and out, terrible handling without even a good ride. It almost forces you to buy a regular V70, but those have no AWD.
I think the VW, with the power boost, may win most comparos. Thing is, in the real world you have to take price and reliability into account, and the LL Bean wins hands down there. No question.
That is actually the problem for me - its like the auto-tranny won't down-shift _at all_ ;-). Yes, it's nice and smooth, and the power is definitely there (which is why it doesn't need to down-shift to be able to still accelerate), but for me, I'd feel more comfortable if I could also push the accelerator further when I wanted to, and have the auto-tranny respond by down-shifting. (This is how it is supposed to work, IMHO).
BTW, I did some test-driving in the 2001 model pathfinder, with the new engine (240hp) and it is a BIG improvement over the older models (although it is still a truck). It doesn't need to down-shift either most of the time, but it will if you floor it...
Most likely you had a defective car. My L.L.Bean down-shifts at about 4000RRM while it's cruising at around 3000RPM at 80MPH. It's not Porsche but it's still well enough for AWD wagon with 20/27 MPG estimated.
at lunch today, and took a new VDC for a good ride - windy, hilly roads, interstate, etc.
This is the second H-6 I've driven, and I still stand by my earlier comments. It's a great engine in need of an equally great transmission. It needs 5 speeds in both automatic and manual versions.
I also wish it was a 3.5 H-6, not a 3.0 H-6. As we all know, it's a heavy vehicle. The extra displacement would help a whole lot.
For people looking for a comfortable, luxurious AWD in the $30K range, it's clearly the pick of the litter. The VW 4-Motion is its closest competition, and those are rare cars to find. Even though the VW may out do it in some areas, I feel the Subaru's reputation for relability is worth whatever edge the VW may have.
I just wish it were sportier. That includes front seats with larger side bolsters (like the Forester/Impreza RS), to keep you in place during hard cornering. I tried to push it a bit in the corners to test the VDC. The car did better than I did. I kept slipping on the front seat, because it wouldn't hold me in place.
Oh, BTW, I've learned to live with the auto climate control vs temp gauge (oh no, not this topic again!). It's really not so bad, as I originally mentioned.
The dealer I went to sells, besides Subaru, VW, Porsche, Audi and Mercedes. There was also a new Audi Allroad there. It stickered for $47K 8-]
First off, I'm not sure Consumer Reports would put the VDC ahead of the Passat. They already did a comparison between the OB Ltd. and the Passat and the Passat won hands down. I think that can be found in the March 2000 issue.
As far as the battery warmer and engine block heater go - I always thought they seemed kinda dumb. But my wife, who's from Canada, says they are absolutely necessary where she's from (Edmonton). There, night-time temps dip down to -40C. Battery warmer keeps the water in the battery from freezing; the engine block heater keeps both the battery and the engine warm. BTW - I'm about to experience my first Canadian winter so pray for me! :P
I have owned both a Volvo (rwd wagon) and, presently, an Audi A6 Avant (1999). Both were, and are, nice cars with their own share of idiosyncrasies.
At a recent auto show, I had the pleasure of seeing my first H6 Outback. Even though I have never owned a Subaru I must admit, I was intrigued. The electronic dynamic control is an especially impressive piece of technology. However, before I ask for some input from the Subaru faithful, allow me to proffer a few observations:
With the possible exception of my neighbor's Toyota, virtually every vehicle that I have experienced, or owned, has had its share of flaws. Our Volvo 745 tested my patience for eighteen months with various annoying, albeit minor, problems. Subsequently, we enjoyed about 160,000 reliable miles. Next came the Audi. Beautifully made, exquisite interior finish, and electrical problems that would be humorous if they were not so frustrating. All corrected, at last.
What I would like to know, from the most candid Subaruite, is what are the pitfalls of this make. Please do not tell me there are none.
As to the comments of adequacy of power of the H6: I agree that a five speed would be clearly preferable. The Audi has a five speed automatic with a surprisingly competent tiptronic. However, there is just so much that 200 horsepower can do (with about the same torque) with a vehicle that weighs about 3,800 pounds and has parasitic losses as a result of 4wd. That is the price you pay for extra security. While it is true that Subaru could increase engine size or add a blower, there would be a dramatic decrease in fuel economy.
In any event, I would enjoy hearing your experiences and observations.
1. If you don't close the fuel cap tight, the Check Engine Light comes on. 2. Subarus are abnormally sensitive to tyre pressure variations. Over or underinflate and you know all about it. 3. If your name is not Mike, you have to change it that. 4. You are going to be cursed with the knowledge that you are a seriously analytical type as you have to be an accountant or IT type to buy one. 5. No more snow days. 6. Windows rattle inside door if you close the doors with the windows down. 7. Manual is more fun than auto as the car is fairly heavy and really needs the manual to push along hard. H6 may change this equation. 8. Brake feel can take some getting used to but they really do work. Some perceive it as too spongy. 9. Service experience is rather different to my previous cars. They actually sort any problems immediately, not on the fourth visit. 10. You will have to get used to people constantly approaching you in the street to ask what you think of the Subaru. This is disconcerting, particularly when they choose to do so as you are about to move out into traffic. 11. Abandon expectations of buying another brand. When I stopped owners in the street to ask what they thought of their Subaru, the normal opening line was "Well, of course this is our third Subaru in 16 years. We only traded the last one because it had 300,000km on the clock and we got such a good trade in offer that it seemed..." 12. Plan for a tax problem on the residual when you trade out of the lease. I have been trying to explain to my boss why I intend to keep this one for five to seven years when the company policy is four years. Why should I quit a car which will run to 300,000km easily when it will have only done 100,000km
Bob Good points about the need for improvement in the new vehicles. Who makes cars with good 5 speed auto-trannies? Whoever they are I guess they're expensive. I hope Subaru listens to your suggestions. Before I had my back surgery I used to write Subaru every other month asking them to make the stick available in the Outback Ltd. I guess I wasn't alone. Mr. Bargle Your right. There are those times when you have to drive aggressively, especially in the DC area, and you want the car to respond. I used to drive an old 5 speed Mazda Rx3 rotary wagon that flew and backfired like crazy. I loved it (except the backfire) so I want to try another wagon. I haven't driven an automatic daily since the 70's. So if I can get into an H6 the auto will be new to me. Thanks for the comments all. Tom S.
I like candid talk, so here's what bothers me about my OB (2000 5-spd):
1. As Graham mentioned, the car is very sensitive to tire pressure. I have to watch it like a hawk as the weather changes.
2. Steering is too light on center, and feels a little sloppy. Steering wheel twitches over certain bumps. This all happens to be highly dependent on tire pressure, BTW.
3. Sun visors bang into the overhead console when you try to swing them over to the side window. You actually have to bend the visor down a little to clear the console. Somebody wasn't paying attention to design.
4. Steering wheel rim blocks the turn signal and high-beam lamps when it's in a comfortable position to me (and not unreasonably low). Subaru needs taller people on the engineering staff!
5. Annoying minor service issues in the first 1000 miles: front wheel out of balance, and front rotors were warped. Otherwise the car has been fine.
6. Front end rattles over low speed bumps. Also related to tire pressure, but still does it even at the recommended inflation. They seem to have fixed this on the 2001 models.
7. Egress/ingress is a little cramped for me, and actually worse than the sports car I used to own!
Once you get past all that minor griping, the car is great, and I love driving it. The H4 is perfect with a 5-spd -- I can drive around all day at part throttle and marvel at the torquey feel and the wonderful rumble the boxer engine makes. You just don't get that with an auto.
The VW Passat offers an excellent 5-speed automatic with a tiptronic manual shift mode. It's essentially the same unit used in Audis. The And... the Passat 4-Motion is Subaru's most direct competition.
You're right however, besides the Passat, all the 5-speed automatics are in the expensive brands: Audi (all), Volvo (all except 40 series models), Acura (TL/CL), Mercedes (all), BMW (all). Also... Mercedes and BMW will shortly be offering 6-speed automatics on some of their cars.
Besides the fact the H-6 needing 5-speeds (with closer gear splits), Subaru has publicly stated they are entering the "near luxury" market with the H-6 models, where all the other contenders do offer 5-speed automatics.
As for a larger 3.5 engine, that could go in the Legacy GT, and perhaps make the current 3.0 a 3.2, or 3.3?
Re my magazine post: Just so y'all know, "tongue in cheek" means "humourous".
New Subie gripe list (2000 Legacy GT sedan): 1. Mine came from the factory with abysmal front and rear alignment. I've heard this from other people too, and highly recommend that you insist on the dealer checking alignment prior to you taking delivery.
1a. Legacies are highly sensitive to alignment. The driving experience changes from ? to ! with proper alignment. However the factory settings are dead-ahead or very nearly so which, coupled with AWD, makes the car sensitive to road surface and tire pressure. You get used to this, indeed you may come to appreciate it. I have.
1b. The factory tires on the GT are marginal performers.
2. Generally speaking the interior appointments are not as ergonomically and humanistically thought out as, say, an or Audi or Bimmer or Volvo. (I personally find the interior appointments adequate, especially whilst lovingly patting the $8,000US I didn't spend on those other cars).
3. A lot of folks find that there is not enough juice in the H4 to drive an automatic. Being a normally aspirated engine, this impression can increase with altitude. The manual transmission seems to satisfy almost everyone who gets it.
4. The leather-clad seats have too little bolstering for spirited driving. This is the sole reason I chose cloth seats - they have much better side bolsters.
5. Clunk in front end when going over bumps at slow speeds with the wheel turned. This appears to be a design, umm, feature, no harm no foul, but it annoys people.
6. Squishy brake pedal feel. The brakes are excellent and you get used to it quickly, but still.
6. Invisibility to the label-conscious. When you go to a party and park next to an A4 1.8T Quattro, nobody asks you for the keys, nobody asks how much you paid. When you subsequently whup the A4 during a little trip around the local twisties, everyone assumes it is because you are a better driver; after all, it's a Subaru.
7. Legacies get compared to 3-Series Bimmers instead of 5-Series which they are much closer to in size.
8. You have to change your name to Dave. (I personally think there are already enough of us and wish this were not so.)
9. You have to figure out what to do with all the money you don't spend on the initial purchase.
9a. You have to figure out what to do with all the money you don't spend on repairs over the life of the vehicle.
10. You have to join the Whinging for More Power Club. I suggest also joining the Whinging for the B4 RSK Club while you're doing the paperwork.
Comments
bit
I've also seen some LL Beans no-dicker priced at $28.3k, several actually, at www.fitzgeraldautomall.com.
Fair enough, the hood prop rod is a cost cutting measure, and the spare is a donut, but we could just as easily pick on Volvo.
(warning: rant ahead)
For example, the seats are awesome but the head rests are ridiculously large and blocked my view. How safe it that?
I also found the suspension floaty and anything but confidence-inspiring. The 215/65 tires may be at fault - pretty lame rubber. The auto tranny is so slow to react I had to tip it at 4000rpm to get a shift at redline, so I don't see the point of it, especially since the auto works fine by itself.
Plus, over $35 grand and leather and a moonroof are still not included? And 18/22 mpg is dreadful compared to the H6 Subarus.
You could argue Volvo is a luxury marque, but I could paraphrase a friend and say it's a Fjord. Plus it's based on the *very* unreliable S80, so the reliability will never touch what Subaru offers. If you disagree take some time to read what people in this Town Hall have said. They are quite vocal about their problems.
-juice
See review:
htttp://www.automotive-review.com/outback.htm
In addition, you can't defeat the VDC in the subie, like you can defeat the similar mechanism in the Mercedes ML. If the VDC detects spinning wheels in snow - will it slow the vehicle down? Anyone have one in snow yet?
Thanks
Andy
Regardless, if you don't want the electronic babysitter, just get the cheaper H6 model and save $4000 canadian. Similarly, US customers can get the LL Bean and save a bundle.
Sarah: sounds like you didn't get a very knowledgeable sales person. At least one without young kids.
I believe the 2001s have the LATCH/ISOFIX anchors that mate with the new child seats out there. Tether anchors were available a few years earlier. You may want to purchase the new seats that are made for these anchors, or at least one with a tether kit.
The middle of the back seat is the safest place. The trick is to push the child seat down into the seat very firmly, even if that means putting your knee into it to get it tight. Get help if necessary. Tight is right.
Once you get the seat in firmly, the trick is to use one of those locking clips to hold the belt's length in place for future use (if you remove and have to reinstall the seat). In my case, I had to twist the belt base to make it shorter because it was at an awkward length for our seat.
Then attach the tether, which tightens easily (and prevents the seat from moving forward in an impact).
ISOFIX makes it all easier, but any seat should fit. You can even get help from a local fire department, or a Mercedes dealer, or even the store where you bought your seat.
Pardon the rant, child safety is sort of one of my pet peeves.
-juice
RB Equip,
RL Equip,
GB Equip,
GL Equip.
Thanks.
First: The 2k Outback Ltd. (and probably all the Legacy based models) has this annoying rattle when you close the door with the window down. Makes an otherwise great car sound cheap. If yours does it you know what I'm talking about. Does not rattle when you drive, just when you close the doors with the windows down.
1) Roll the window down all the way on the driver and/or passenger side
2) Open and close either door firmly with the window down
3) Listen for a rattle or any indication that the window is banging around in there. The hollow rattle should be pretty obvious if its still there.
Second: Some or all(?) 2k OB Ltd. (and perhaps other OB models but not(?) Legacy models) make this muted ticking sound when you turn on the defroster on cold days. The sound is like an expansion of the dash or something to that nature. Its our second winter and its still doing it. No better no worse. It makes the sound for about 5min and then goes away. You cannot hear it with the radio on and you really cant hear it if you put the defrost on high.
1) Wait for a cold day (in the 32degF/0decC range)
2) Turn on the defroster on low (1 or 2) after the car has warmed up a little.
3) Listen for a ticking sound from the dash. In some OBs its really quiet and others its pretty noticeable. Ours seems to be medium.
The first thing is far more annoying than the second. I want to know if they fixed the first one and if the second one is just restricted to the 2k model year. Small complaints really. Its a great car when you can complain about things like ticking noises and the subwoffer that dont affect driveability or ergonomics. The exact opposite of my now traded in Ford Contour.
Please post your results.
Thanks for your time
mtnshopper
The ticking is also common. I don't use defrost much here in CA but in hot weather when I pull the window shades out of the front window I hear the same sound as the dash heats up.
bit
Looks like they fell for the marketing hype...
-juice
I know it sounds like I am being a pain in the butt... but I try and be nice with the counter person explaining I am willing to wait or come back when the car I want is available. They always seem more than willing to accommodate. In fact the give me a local number to call and check if the car I want is in.
bit
As has been noted a lot of times, I was also very unimpressed with the *available* power in the H6 with the auto-tranny. Hey Subaru, what gives? The engine sounds like it has plenty of depth (power wise) but when you floor it, nothing happens. Okay, it does actually accelerate, but so slloooowwwly. It does this from a standing start (acceptable I guess, but makes merging with traffic a bit more difficult), but more importantly it does this at speed too (despite what the sales-guy promised).
At 65mph on the freeway, I tried to pull into the high-speed lane to overtake another vehicle, but when I put my foot down, I got almost no power at all. The auto-tranny wouldn't drop into 3rd by itself, so all that happened was that I slowly accelerated in 4th. (It does give some indication of the available power though, since this acceleration was up hill at 65-70mph at an altitide of 6000 feet). I didn't try dropping it into 3rd manually (equivalent of turning off the overdrive on other autos) though, since with the accelerator pressed against the firewall, this shouldn't be necessary (its supposed to be an auto-tranny after all). It especially concerns me from a safety point of view, since it means I can't rely on just the use of the accelerator to accelerate out of a danger situation.
So, its definitely not like any auto I've ever driven before (and I mean this in a negative way). Also not what I expected given Subaru's comments on the vehicle specifications which state "This transmission has an automatic power mode that engages with rapid use of the accelerator pedal" (from their web-site). If this feature really is present, I wonder exactly how rapidly I should have pressed the pedal to engage this? Maybe I should'a pumped it?
Given what it feels like the engine could deliver, I would have loved to have seen this engine in a 5 speed.
I also noted the strange behavior of the automatic climate control, since it kept switching between warm air (desired cabin temp of 70F) and cold air (probably direct from outside, which was 45F or so). It made for a very annoying experience, since for driving comfort I had to fiddle with the controls more than if I had a simple manual control. (I have automatic climate control on my jeep, and it works like it should, so this is definitely a fault in the Subaru design somewhere).
Apart from the available power issues, has anyone else compared the auto-tranny performance (shifting speeds, acceleration, etc.) between any of the H4 and H6 models? I'm hoping to do a comparison with an H4 (OB ltd) soon myself...
Bargle
"Thanks for your reply. This morning, I received a message from our Product Public Relations Manager in response to your inquiry. He advised that third parties hadn't yet thoroughly tested the car, but had been giving their driving impressions. Although we generally don't give manufacturer testing information, this manager recalled that Fuji Heavy Industries' tests
indicated 8.5 seconds for the 0-60 stats. This isn't as high as you seemed to think, and it could be that a third party would get a slightly different number, but I hope that this information is helpful.
Your favorable remarks about Subaru are appreciated. I hope that you will soon be a Subaru owner! Best wishes!"
Denise Schwartz
Subaru of America, Inc.
Customer/Dealer Services Department
It is exactly this sort of thing that makes people like me buy standards. More power, more responsiveness, always in the right gear (if you know how to drive), etc. Looks to me as if you subconciously want a standard. Go for the H4 with a 5 speed, and save big bucks too.
bit
That certainly sounds adequate, if not heart-pumping. EPA estimates of 20/27 are the remarkable part.
Gimme a manual any day, though. I'm sure that would put it in the mid/high 7's and make it a more serious threat.
-juice
Jeannette
The 8.5 that Fuji reported or that 8.3 that juice found or the 8.8 in C&D may not translate to every day driving. Usually their times are under ideal conditions (which is fine) and they frequently use tricks like rev the engine in gear with the brake applied then release the brake quickly (which is sneaky). You can get 0.5 sec doing that in some autos. Perhaps even more for the ones with AWD. Better measure in my opnion are the flying start 5-60 or top gear 35-75.
When I test drove the LL Bean and just smashed the gas from a full stop I was in the high 9s and low 10s. My unoffical numbers say its 1.5 sec faster than the H4 auto.
The VDC is about 3800lbs and has 212 hp. The Acura TL is 3450lbs and has 225hp. The Acura gets to 60 in a little over 8sec (7.9-8.3sec). The VDC has more weight to carry, the burden of AWD traction, and less hp. I'll stick with my mid 9 sec claim for a resonable 0-60 in a well broken in H6. I think the VDC would need about 250hp to really get into the 8s.
BUT keep in mind that 0-60 burns are not what the VDC is all about. I hope thats not the reason people are buying it....I think they would be disappointed. If you want fast 0-60 save a few more pennies and get the Volvo T5 Wagon with a 5 spd. That HPT is one heck of a good time.
The VDC is really for people who want the latest in active AWD technology but dont want an SUV. Once its selling for $30k it will be a great deal.
Car & Driver also tested a 4Motion and it took 9.4 seconds (if I remember correctly, it may have been longer) in 0-60 tests.
So compared a similar AWD wagon, it's not bad. I think the XC is as quick, but it's also much more expensive and lacks the stability control of the VDC.
-juice
gus
I do have to concur with everyone (well, most everyone) who feels the H-6 doesn't deliver what's been promised. I feel very strongly about this when it comes to every-day-stop-'n-go-driving -- the kind of driving the vehicle will spend 95% of its time doing. Yeah, if you floor it, it moves out smartly. It just doesn't feel like it does that most of the time.
Bob
Bob
The CR-V was "Marginal" in IIHS crash tests, but did well in NHTSA tests. It doesn't have rear disc brakes, rear LSD, side air bags, center shoulder belt, seat belt pre-tensioners or force limiters, so it really doesn't measure up to the Outback for safety features.
-juice
The Oct 2000 Consumer Reports issue stated that on their crash test on the CRV that it rolled on its side. Thats all I needed to hear to rule this out.
Hope this helps.
Eric
My guess is that after all the testing is done, the VDC will end up mid-pack somewhere. As expensive as it is, it is still a excellent value when compared to the euro AWDs.
Now, if it just had some of their techi-features such as 5-speed auto, tiptronic, and, of course... a 5-speed manual, it would probably clean up the awards. :-,
Bob
RB Equip,- Base OB
RL Equip,- Base OB w/ integrated Child seat
GB Equip,- Base OB w/ All Weather Package (AWP)
GL Equip.- Base OB w/ Integrated child seat & AWP
Which is why we have the H4 and did not wait for the H6 once the rumors of it cracking $30k started. Tell you the truth if the OB was available with the 2.2L with all the stuff in the Ltd. AND it would get better MPG I would have looked into it. As long as its under 12-14sec to 60mph its fine with me.
1) XC: Its a bigger, safer, more comfortable wagon for more money. A lot more money.
Tie 2) 4-Mo and VDC: I have driven the LL Bean but not the VDC (yet). I guess on paper size, price, and the cool stuff factor is about equal between the VDC and the 4-Mo. I really like the 4-Mo and how it drives and feels. To me it felt more stable at high speeds than the LL Bean and had less wind noise. The VDC would have the state of the art active AWD system + everything in the Bean version I drove + a fancy stereo.
If pushed I would take the 4-Mo over the LL Bean today and all government holidays but on Friday, Monday, Sunday, and alternate Thursdays I'll take the VDC.
It will be interesting as to how they get ranked. It certainly will be worth more than a few posts on these boards!
Bob
C&D, R&T, MT: Audi, VW, VDC, Volvo
CR: Volvo, VDC, Audi, VW
European rags:
UK: VDC, Volvo, Audi/VW tie
Other European countries:
whatever car is made nearest to them, duh
Canadian, Australian, NZ rags:
VDC, ... umm, there were other cars in the test?
Tongue firmly in cheek,
-wdb
Can anyone explain me what is the precise purpose of battery warmer and engine block heater available for subarus. I know it's easier something in cold weather, but don't know exactly what this all about.
Thanks in advance,
Nikita.
Cheers,
-wdb
After reading about others ripping the H6 up one side and down the other I have to throw this in.
We must all be test driving different versions of the H6. A couple of weeks ago I drove an Outback Ltd. at 4 different dealerships in southern PA. - 2 sticks and 2 auto's. They both felt pretty much the same to me - a little doggy like my 4 yr. old Pathfinder, which has a stick (because of the dogginess of their auto). As soon as you gave the Ltd. auto gas it would downshift and rev loudly.
Last week I drove the Bean-mobile. (If they just would have left that *** logo off, instead of copying Ford's Eddie Bauer). I noticed the difference in responsiveness of the Bean immediately - right away when pulling out of the dealership AND getting on the freeway and passing - no downshifting and revving even when pressed.
After driving and being pitched around by the hulking Pathfinder daily (still the smoothest riding TRUCK I've driven)the H6 was like a breath of fresh air. I guess variety is the spice of life.
Has anyone read about anyone taking delivery of a VDC yet?
Tom S.
The Pathfinder makes the exact same rattle when closing the door with the window down - even MORE so - and it has a frame the whole way around.
Maybe they used the same settings as for the H4, and need to reprogram it? A 5 speed would be nice, given VW and Volvo have them.
Tiptronic only if it really works. Both VW and Volvo systems are pitifully slow to shift.
The VW needs more power, and it's getting it along with a face lift. That'll make the competition tough. I found the seats hard and the interior is a bit cold for a near luxury car.
The Volvo is just all wrong, at least for my tastes. I test drove one and was utterly unimpressed. Very slow tiptronic, gawdy plastics inside and out, terrible handling without even a good ride. It almost forces you to buy a regular V70, but those have no AWD.
I think the VW, with the power boost, may win most comparos. Thing is, in the real world you have to take price and reliability into account, and the LL Bean wins hands down there. No question.
-juice
That is actually the problem for me - its like the auto-tranny won't down-shift _at all_ ;-). Yes, it's nice and smooth, and the power is definitely there (which is why it doesn't need to down-shift to be able to still accelerate), but for me, I'd feel more comfortable if I could also push the accelerator further when I wanted to, and have the auto-tranny respond by down-shifting. (This is how it is supposed to work, IMHO).
BTW, I did some test-driving in the 2001 model pathfinder, with the new engine (240hp) and it is a BIG improvement over the older models (although it is still a truck). It doesn't need to down-shift either most of the time, but it will if you floor it...
Bargle
Nikita.
This is the second H-6 I've driven, and I still stand by my earlier comments. It's a great engine in need of an equally great transmission. It needs 5 speeds in both automatic and manual versions.
I also wish it was a 3.5 H-6, not a 3.0 H-6. As we all know, it's a heavy vehicle. The extra displacement would help a whole lot.
For people looking for a comfortable, luxurious AWD in the $30K range, it's clearly the pick of the litter. The VW 4-Motion is its closest competition, and those are rare cars to find. Even though the VW may out do it in some areas, I feel the Subaru's reputation for relability is worth whatever edge the VW may have.
I just wish it were sportier. That includes front seats with larger side bolsters (like the Forester/Impreza RS), to keep you in place during hard cornering. I tried to push it a bit in the corners to test the VDC. The car did better than I did. I kept slipping on the front seat, because it wouldn't hold me in place.
Oh, BTW, I've learned to live with the auto climate control vs temp gauge (oh no, not this topic again!). It's really not so bad, as I originally mentioned.
The dealer I went to sells, besides Subaru, VW, Porsche, Audi and Mercedes. There was also a new Audi Allroad there. It stickered for $47K 8-]
Bob
As far as the battery warmer and engine block heater go - I always thought they seemed kinda dumb. But my wife, who's from Canada, says they are absolutely necessary where she's from (Edmonton). There, night-time temps dip down to -40C. Battery warmer keeps the water in the battery from freezing; the engine block heater keeps both the battery and the engine warm. BTW - I'm about to experience my first Canadian winter so pray for me! :P
Both were, and are, nice cars with their own share of idiosyncrasies.
At a recent auto show, I had the pleasure of seeing my first H6 Outback. Even
though I have never owned a Subaru I must admit, I was intrigued. The electronic
dynamic control is an especially impressive piece of technology. However,
before I ask for some input from the Subaru faithful, allow me to proffer a few
observations:
With the possible exception of my neighbor's Toyota, virtually every vehicle that
I have experienced, or owned, has had its share of flaws. Our Volvo 745 tested
my patience for eighteen months with various annoying, albeit minor, problems.
Subsequently, we enjoyed about 160,000 reliable miles. Next came the Audi.
Beautifully made, exquisite interior finish, and electrical problems that would be
humorous if they were not so frustrating. All corrected, at last.
What I would like to know, from the most candid Subaruite, is what are the
pitfalls of this make. Please do not tell me there are none.
As to the comments of adequacy of power of the H6: I agree that a five speed
would be clearly preferable. The Audi has a five speed automatic with a
surprisingly competent tiptronic. However, there is just so much that 200
horsepower can do (with about the same torque) with a vehicle that weighs
about 3,800 pounds and has parasitic losses as a result of 4wd. That is the
price you pay for extra security. While it is true that Subaru could increase
engine size or add a blower, there would be a dramatic decrease in fuel economy.
In any event, I would enjoy hearing your experiences and observations.
2. Subarus are abnormally sensitive to tyre pressure variations. Over or underinflate and you know all about it.
3. If your name is not Mike, you have to change it that.
4. You are going to be cursed with the knowledge that you are a seriously analytical type as you have to be an accountant or IT type to buy one.
5. No more snow days.
6. Windows rattle inside door if you close the doors with the windows down.
7. Manual is more fun than auto as the car is fairly heavy and really needs the manual to push along hard. H6 may change this equation.
8. Brake feel can take some getting used to but they really do work. Some perceive it as too spongy.
9. Service experience is rather different to my previous cars. They actually sort any problems immediately, not on the fourth visit.
10. You will have to get used to people constantly approaching you in the street to ask what you think of the Subaru. This is disconcerting, particularly when they choose to do so as you are about to move out into traffic.
11. Abandon expectations of buying another brand. When I stopped owners in the street to ask what they thought of their Subaru, the normal opening line was "Well, of course this is our third Subaru in 16 years. We only traded the last one because it had 300,000km on the clock and we got such a good trade in offer that it seemed..."
12. Plan for a tax problem on the residual when you trade out of the lease. I have been trying to explain to my boss why I intend to keep this one for five to seven years when the company policy is four years. Why should I quit a car which will run to 300,000km easily when it will have only done 100,000km
Cheers
Graham
Good points about the need for improvement in the new vehicles.
Who makes cars with good 5 speed auto-trannies? Whoever they are I guess they're expensive.
I hope Subaru listens to your suggestions. Before I had my back surgery I used to write Subaru every other month asking them to make the stick available in the Outback Ltd. I guess I wasn't alone.
Mr. Bargle
Your right. There are those times when you have to drive aggressively, especially in the DC area, and you want the car to respond. I used to drive an old 5 speed Mazda Rx3 rotary wagon that flew and backfired like crazy. I loved it (except the backfire) so I want to try another wagon. I haven't driven an automatic daily since the 70's. So if I can get into an H6 the auto will be new to me. Thanks for the comments all.
Tom S.
1. As Graham mentioned, the car is very sensitive to tire pressure. I have to watch it like a hawk as the weather changes.
2. Steering is too light on center, and feels a little sloppy. Steering wheel twitches over certain bumps. This all happens to be highly dependent on tire pressure, BTW.
3. Sun visors bang into the overhead console when you try to swing them over to the side window. You actually have to bend the visor down a little to clear the console. Somebody wasn't paying attention to design.
4. Steering wheel rim blocks the turn signal and high-beam lamps when it's in a comfortable position to me (and not unreasonably low). Subaru needs taller people on the engineering staff!
5. Annoying minor service issues in the first 1000 miles: front wheel out of balance, and front rotors were warped. Otherwise the car has been fine.
6. Front end rattles over low speed bumps. Also related to tire pressure, but still does it even at the recommended inflation. They seem to have fixed this on the 2001 models.
7. Egress/ingress is a little cramped for me, and actually worse than the sports car I used to own!
Once you get past all that minor griping, the car is great, and I love driving it. The H4 is perfect with a 5-spd -- I can drive around all day at part throttle and marvel at the torquey feel and the wonderful rumble the boxer engine makes. You just don't get that with an auto.
Craig
You're right however, besides the Passat, all the 5-speed automatics are in the expensive brands: Audi (all), Volvo (all except 40 series models), Acura (TL/CL), Mercedes (all), BMW (all). Also... Mercedes and BMW will shortly be offering 6-speed automatics on some of their cars.
Besides the fact the H-6 needing 5-speeds (with closer gear splits), Subaru has publicly stated they are entering the "near luxury" market with the H-6 models, where all the other contenders do offer 5-speed automatics.
As for a larger 3.5 engine, that could go in the Legacy GT, and perhaps make the current 3.0 a 3.2, or 3.3?
Bob
New Subie gripe list (2000 Legacy GT sedan):
1. Mine came from the factory with abysmal front and rear alignment. I've heard this from other people too, and highly recommend that you insist on the dealer checking alignment prior to you taking delivery.
1a. Legacies are highly sensitive to alignment. The driving experience changes from ? to ! with proper alignment. However the factory settings are dead-ahead or very nearly so which, coupled with AWD, makes the car sensitive to road surface and tire pressure. You get used to this, indeed you may come to appreciate it. I have.
1b. The factory tires on the GT are marginal performers.
2. Generally speaking the interior appointments are not as ergonomically and humanistically thought out as, say, an or Audi or Bimmer or Volvo. (I personally find the interior appointments adequate, especially whilst lovingly patting the $8,000US I didn't spend on those other cars).
3. A lot of folks find that there is not enough juice in the H4 to drive an automatic. Being a normally aspirated engine, this impression can increase with altitude. The manual transmission seems to satisfy almost everyone who gets it.
4. The leather-clad seats have too little bolstering for spirited driving. This is the sole reason I chose cloth seats - they have much better side bolsters.
5. Clunk in front end when going over bumps at slow speeds with the wheel turned. This appears to be a design, umm, feature, no harm no foul, but it annoys people.
6. Squishy brake pedal feel. The brakes are excellent and you get used to it quickly, but still.
6. Invisibility to the label-conscious. When you go to a party and park next to an A4 1.8T Quattro, nobody asks you for the keys, nobody asks how much you paid. When you subsequently whup the A4 during a little trip around the local twisties, everyone assumes it is because you are a better driver; after all, it's a Subaru.
7. Legacies get compared to 3-Series Bimmers instead of 5-Series which they are much closer to in size.
8. You have to change your name to Dave. (I personally think there are already enough of us and wish this were not so.)
9. You have to figure out what to do with all the money you don't spend on the initial purchase.
9a. You have to figure out what to do with all the money you don't spend on repairs over the life of the vehicle.
10. You have to join the Whinging for More Power Club. I suggest also joining the Whinging for the B4 RSK Club while you're doing the paperwork.
Cheers,
-wdb