Subaru Legacy/Outback

zman3 · October 2003

I was told previously on these boards that the 0% is for 24 months.

sebberry · October 2003

I saw some posts on this board about engine speeds and thought I'd join in...

I have an H6 3.0 (Beaner) and made these few notes: (in Mph for comparison)

-40 Mph (Normal in-town speed) is about 1200- 1300 RPM

- 60 Mph (Posted highway speeds here) 2100-2300 RPM

- 80Mph (Speeding) is just under 3000 RPM (I think)

I neglected to make note of the engine speed at 108 Mph, but we don't need to taklk about that anyway..

Just my two cents

paisan · October 2003

80mph - 2600RPM
123mph- 6500rpm (3rd gear shift to 4th)
143mph- 4600rpm (4th gear)

-mike

rob999 · October 2003

If the 2005 Legacy is going to be available with a turbo 4 cylinder engine in the 250hp range I hope Subaru reduces the final drive ratio to reduce highway RPMs and improve mileage. I just don't see the need for an engine to rev at 3500 RPM at 75 (MT trans). At 80 mph my Saab 9-5 lazes along at around 2200 RPM and consistently delivers 30+ MPG, with a high of 34. In my Outback I've never even reached the rated highway MPG of 27. That's about my only gripe - the OB is still a great car.

c_hunter · October 2003

I had to drop my wife's Forester off at the dealer for state inspection this morning, and saw an interesting 2004 Outback. It was monotone silver, with black side skirts and black lower accents on the front and rear bumpers. Just like the upcoming 2005 models we have seen pictures of (currently selling in Australia, etc...).

Very interesting that Subaru is setting up the future design "cues" in the outgoing model. By the way, it looked great. They should have been selling silver monotone with black skirts all along....

Craig

c_hunter · October 2003

ateixeira · October 2003

Keep the short final drive; add a very tall 6th gear for economic cruising! :-)

Looks sharp, Craig. I think they're preparing us for the transition to monotone Outbacks. I like it, thumbs up.

Heck, if I was going to buy a 2004 OB, that would be my exact color scheme!

-juice

rsholland · October 2003

The monotone with the black lower portion is only on the silver models. And, yes Subaru is "preparing" the audience for next year's model. The '04 Outback silver badging does the same thing too.

Bob

kmclean · October 2003

This discussion reminds me of the first car I ever bought - a [new] 1968 Fiat 124 Spyder. Very small engine (somewhere in the 1200-1500cc range - can't recall exactly), but ahead of its time technologically (DOHC, 4-wheel discs w/proportioning valve, gauges with imbedded idiot lights, interval wipers). But with only a 4-speed, that little sucker turned 4K at 60 mph in fourth gear (red line was 8K). As a result, it would consume a set of exhaust valves every 25K miles. Other than that, a blast to drive (a babe magnet, too!).

Cheers from (flood-recovering) Seattle,

Ken

firstov · October 2003

Will changing ATF to let's say synthetic Mobil 1 invalidate the car warranty?
What are the drawbacks? My AT shifts too rough
please help!
what type of fluid do you usually put in your AT.

ateixeira · October 2003

Firm shifts may not be bad - you have less slop and that tranny may actually be more durable that way.

-juice

fabienne · October 2003

Hi,
Does anyone have Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22 winter tires? I'm interested in knowing how they perform. How about Dunlop Winter Sport M?? I have a 2004 Subaru Legacy 35th Ed. Thanks,
Fabienne

cpp788x · October 2003

A simple solution for mileage and power is a K&N air filter - not a modified intake system - just a simple replacement filter. I haven't seen any body note this in their messages. They improve airflow thus resulting in smoother and more efficient engine performance. You take them out to clean and re-oil every 30 to 50 thousand miles.
In the long run they are actually less expensive than the factory paper filters.

I lease my forester so I didn't modify it. I have a K/N filter in my 97 Chrysler Minivan(3.3V6) and you can really feel the difference. My Highway mileage for drive vacations is in the mid to high 20's.

My next Subaru will be an Outback wagon. H4 or H6?
Can't wait for the 0'5s. I wonder if the K/N filter will improve the H4's performance noticeably. I've read so many reports wishing the Limited or GT had more power. I'm just about ready to buy a filter to put in a test drive car.

Has anyone out there used a K/N in an H4?
Cpp788x

ttamatruda · October 2003

craig, thanks for response about the clutch on a 2000 outback.
Does cold weather shorten the life of a clutch on the Outback? Do we think that clutch judder or shudder will lead to premature wear? Its hard to find data on clutch failure, but there seem to be more posts about the clutch problem than anything else on this board. Was the burning smell and clutch shudder problem seen only with 200-2002 outback and forester?
I am bummed that this clutch has died at 40,000 miles, esp after it was burning up and smelling in the first few weeks I had.
That isnt the way it should be with a quality car.
Tom

ateixeira · October 2003

In my opinion, no, cold weather does not shorten the clutch's life. And no, I do not feel that it leads to premature wear.

When it is cold (and damp) the effects of the chatter are greater, i.e. you notice more. Actually that's the only time I notice at all.

But...my clutch is the original, with 57k miles now, driven hard, off road, towing, heavy loads, etc. I'm happy with the life expectancy of my clutch given the abuse it's been through, and mind you it's still going strong...

-juice

pathtomax · October 2003

Hello,

Does anyone else use the portal XM Radio kit in their car? I used to shut my car door on the external antenna cord but don't know with the Subie having no door frames if it will warp the glass if I keep closing it on the cord?

Anyone else using the Delphi kit?

c_hunter · October 2003

Where do you route the wire? If it goes over the rain gutter, I doubt the glass would even seal. I shut straps (from my roof rack) in the glass sometimes, but they are pretty thin.

You could probably route the wire through the back hatch and not even worry about it.

Craig

cptplt · October 2003

I had them last season on my WRX, they are very nice. They are not in the same league for ice traction as the original Blizzak WS15/50 with the muticell compound but as good as Michelin Arctic Alpins and Nokian NRWs on snow/ice. As a H rated tire they are great on dry roads, unlike the Blizzaks. Never tried Dunlop M2s but most people like them too.
I got the LM22s as Tireracks own test showed they were a little better, however they are also more than a little more expensive than the Dunlops!

Almost got the M2s instead of the Nokians for my Legacy but they gave me a better deal on the Nokians, or at least the idea of a larger % discount seemed very appealing at the time! I don;t think you could go wrong with any of these 3 and you can if you like run the Nokians all summer.

fibber2 · October 2003

On Consumer Reports strong recommendation, I bought 8 of them last October in size 225/60-16 (H speed rating) for my '02 OBW & '02 Honda Odyssey, premounted on rims for easy seasonal change.

I see from your profile that you are also here in NY, so I don't have to remind you of how bad last winter was! The tires were great - every bit as good as I could have hoped for. They maybe give up a little bit on snow in trade for exceptional all-around performance on ice, wet & dry conditions.

Steve

fabienne · October 2003

Thanks,
I'm also looking at Dumlop M3's, which many people seem to like. I haven't really heard anything negative about Dunlop M2, M3 and even their all season tires. Thanks for you ideas.
Mamie

nygreg · October 2003

I have installed them on my 01 H4 OB and 00 Sienna. Still trying to figure out it they made a big difference - I guess that means no. Gas mileage didn't change much. Ideally, I should now put the OEM filters back in and see if there is a difference.

Greg

nygreg · October 2003

A few weeks ago, after a rain, I noticed some sloshing in the driver's side front q panel. When washing my car on Sunday I flushed out both front panels through the front doors. There was a lot of sand in there partially clogging the drain holes. All is clean now and no sloshing after our recent (large) rainfall. Recommendation to all - when washing your car, take the few extra minutes and flush out the q panels. I have also noticed the rear bumpers hold a lot (and I mean a lot) of sand, salt, etc behind the rear wheels especially after the winter.

Greg

ateixeira · October 2003

Real bad problem in Miatas. I do the same.

On my Forester, I guess the mud flaps tend to keep the area clear.

-juice

cpp788x · October 2003

Greg, Perhaps you don't see a difference because the Japanese motors have a higher level of precision. You take yours out, and I'll put one in. Lets compare notes.
Thanks for the response.
cpp788x

subah6 · October 2003

I thought I'd let you know that I saw the new Outback H6 at the Sydney (Australia) motor show last week. It has been released here as of our motor show. I was so impressed that I went to my dealer for a test drive.

I have a current version Outback H6 and it's only drawback is its 4 speed auto. Whilst smooth and quiet it does stifle the H6 a little. Well, you can put those problems to rest with the new H6 with 180kw (240hp) and the new 5 speed sportshift auto! Man this thing goes. No dithering when putting your foot down on the gas, it just lifts up its skirt and pow. Even better in the manumatic mode. Flick the lever down a gear or two and off you go.

Steering has a better feel especially on the straight ahead and it handles beautifully with the new 17" wheels and tyres. Although, I must admit I had put 17" 235/50 tyres on my Outback H6 and that makes a dramatic difference to how the car handles and turns into a corner. Much better, and quieter too!

The new H6 motor is also available in the Legacy (in Japan only at the moment) and the journos over there are comparing the motor and the car itself favourably to the BMW 330. They believe the new H6 is a gem and I'd have to agree with them. It is quiet, refined and super responsive.

Some of the features we get on the new Outback here are:
180kw (240hp) H6 motor
Trip computer
Fly by wire throttle
5 speed sporshift
Momo leather steering wheel
Audio controls on the steering wheel
Full size alloy spare

I think the US is getting the new Outback in 2004 is that right?

rsholland · October 2003

Yeah, we should have it next spring, or thereabouts. Thanks for the heads up. We're all very much looking forward to it here.

Bob

otis123 · October 2003

Does it look as good without the airbrushing?? Any chance they threw in a driver memory system?

Ralph

P.S. You ditched the stock alloys and got 17" alloys??

ateixeira · October 2003

That's very, very encouraging to hear. Can't wait to try the H6/5 speed Sportshift combo.

-juice

lark6 · October 2003

I second juice, Graham. I still prefer the Forester's size and tossable nature over the longer-wheelbase Legacy/Outback, and really want Sportshift and VTD in the XT. If I could convince myself I don't need that additional ground clearance for 5% of my driving, I could talk myself into a next-gen Legacy wagon. I'm not an early adopter by nature, so I would wait until mid-calendar 2005 and the discovery of early production bugs before I'd consider buying one, though.

pathtomax · October 2003

Thank you for all of the information, Lance!

I second the request for the memory seating! Are they also included?

goosegog · October 2003

I was under the impression the reason the current OB had a temp spare and the Legacy a full size one was because the wheel well is too small for the OB's 16" wheel/tire, whereas the Legacy has 15" wheels. So unless they enlarged it to get a 17" wheel in there the tire's lower profile is all that is needed. In which case the tire/wheel combo must be approximately the same as on the current model. Is a 50 series tire a good idea for off-road?

grahampeters · October 2003

G'day

Took the 2005 Outback H6 for a test drive the other day. Very tempting. 5 Speed Auto is dramatically better than the 4 speed in the 2.5i.

I will write up a more detailed review on Sylvia "Town Hall Test Drive Team" Oct 30, 2003 7:00am

We have a very long weekend here in Melbourne. It is Melbourne Cup day here on Tuesday, an almost religious holiday in this city. Most folk take a day's leave on Monday, pull the kids out of school and have an early break. It's the traditional time to plant out tomatos as the last possibility offrost has passed.

Cheers

Graham

toboggan · October 2003

Installed one about 3 years ago in my '98 OBW Ltd 5-spd. As I remember it seemed to go better at higher rpms (regularily shift at 6000-6500 rpm in the lower gears). Didn't do anything for the gas mileage (~23mpg at 75+ with a "clean" roof rack).

toboggan · October 2003

Will be starting the 6th winter season with Blizzak WS-15's mounted on base OB alloy wheels. They are slightly noiser than the newer Blizzaks. They've pulled the OBW (5-spd) through 16+" of fresh snow and the plowed up snow at the end of the driveway. Since snow skiing is my winter-time thing these tires have carried us out to Montana safely several times. Of course, they are only Q rated, but then who goes that fast in the winter time.

The Blizzaks are mounted some time in Nov and taken off in March or April.

MNSteve - '98 OBW Ltd 30year edition w/5 speed

cptplt · October 2003

you couldn't possibly be on the same tires??? after 3 seasons in chicago I have no more multicell compound tread left! and it was no better when I was in MN!

ateixeira · October 2003

Most 50 series tires are not good off road, that's too low profile, and actually pretty sporty.

But...Subaru might do what they do now, give the GT a lower profile tire than the Outback.

-juice

vince14 · November 2003

Just put a set of Nokian WR all-weather plus on my 2000 OB, (now up to 108,000 miles!)
They're the only tires I've ever seen that are all-season with the snowflake on the sidewall, identifying them as winter tires! I'll let you know how they actually perform, but I thought I'd let you you all know, last winter was bad in NY, and I toyed with getting snows since I was due to change tires again, but these seemed like a great compromise.
Car still runs great, very few problems after so many miles, and still feels nice and tight. (Of course, it's almost all highway on fairly decent roads, but still, an impressive run so far!) Vince

mrk610 · November 2003

I just got my oil analysis back for my car . I have a 02 outback base wagon with 32 k miles on it . I have had the car diagnosed with piston slap at 6k miles . I use mobil 1 5w40 in the winter and 10w40 in the summer I change the oil at 5 k intervals . My oil came back normal for my engine . No abnormal wear due to the slap problem . So I guess SOA is right that it does no damage to the engine . I sent the oil to Blackstone labs . It cost 20 bucks and they supply the shipping container .
Well I felt so good about my car that I gave it a good detailing to day at work .
I now feel alot better and I'll just have to learn to live with the noise .

Mike

cptplt · November 2003

You will love them, have the NRW, the WRs predecessor, on my Legacy. Very nice tires,ice traction not quite up to a blizzak WS15/50 but as good as Artic Alpins or the H rated Blizzak LM22. Just put WRs on a minivan.I just checked the tread depth on my NRW (one season on them) and the new WR, there is almost no difference! Fed up with changing tires in winter, blizzaks only last 3 seasons! If you had nice H rated all seasons before you may notice the WR isn't quite as good in dry warm weather but small price to pay for all year versatility.

subah6 · November 2003

Ralph & Pathtomax,

No driver memory for the seats etc as far as I could tell and it does look as good in the flesh, actually better I think.

I kept the original rims in case whoever I sell the car to wants originals back on. I'm seriously considering going for the new Outback H6 standard spec as I don't need the leather, VDC or sunroof.

Goosegog?,

Interesting name. (I'd be interested in everyones names they us on these sites and how they come up with them). Anyway, The 17" rim/tyre combo is the same overall diameter and width as the previous Outback 16" set up. Having said that, the vehicle is a complete redesign so they coud make the tyre well to fit. The new Outback tyres are 215/55 aspect not 50 aspect. The ones I put on my current Outback H6 are 235/50 aspect so the side wall height is the same as the 215/55. Probably not too good for offraod but the worst I encounter is just dirt roads, no serious stuff.

I actually bought the H6 for two reasons:
1) self levelling rear suspension, as I sometimes carry weight for my business, and this is a good feature for this.
2) the only way to get the H6 was in the Outback.

Ateixeira,
The GT has 215/45 17", so yes, a sportier tyre setup. The new Outback is 215/55 on the H6 only. The 2.5i gets the standard 215/60 16" as they are now.

caviller · November 2003

Just got around to some maintenance on our 2000 Outback Wagon w/ Cold Weather Package (rear LSD):

1) Replaced OEM Firestones with Bridgestone Turanza LS-H. These tires got very good ratings from TireRack (review and survey results) and Consumer Reports. They are rated 400 wear, AA traction, A temperature, 98H load rating. CR claims the new UNI-T AQII compound does work and performs better for wet and snow traction than other tires as they wear. So far, the ride and noise are at least as good as the Firestones. They do seem to be a bit grippier in turns. Wet performace is good, but not enough miles on them to really compare. It's all subjective anyway without a side by side test. Main downside is the possibility of higher wear with the 400 rating and 50,000 mile warranty that is quite a bit less than many top quality T rated tires. See:

http://www.consumerreports.org/main/content/display_report.jsp?FO- - LDER%3C%3Efolder_id=340821 (Subscription)
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&- - tireModel=Turanza+LS-H
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/gtas.jsp
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testResultsModel.jsp?tireMode- - l=Turanza+LS-H&tireMake=Bridgestone

2) New battery- Exide Nascar Select 35-84N. Was a top rated model by CR. Had a nice 18 months guarantee which was good enough for me. Installed easily, as expected.

3) New wiper blades all around. Used Bosch Micro Edge Excel from rockauto.com. I've used these on our other vehicles, and they're the best I've found for quiet, clean wiping and long life. Fairly pricey, though.

4) Oil & Filter change. Not too exciting, as always it's nice to be able to change these without ramps. Had a few extra Subaru filters around and have begun changing oil again since the free maintenance plan we got through IMBA expired at 3/36k.

5) ATF & Filter. It's great to have a spin-on ATF filter. Sucks that it is $40 from the local Subaru dealer. Anyone found an aftermarket replacement or ultra cheap online retailer for this part next time? Used Mobil1 Dexron III ATF. Took 6 full quarts with the filter change; I measured what came out exactly.

6) Front differential fluid change. Replaced with 75W90 Mobil 1 GL-5 Gear Oil. Took 1.25 quarts, again I measured what came out and double checked with the dipstick. Requires a 21mm socket. I reused the OEM washer- it didn't appear to be a crush type.

7) Rear differential fluid change. Replaced with 75W90 Mobil 1 GL-5 Gear Oil. Took 0.75 quards. Requires a 1/2" socket driver.

8) Air filter. Easy enough, but I lost the bolt that holds the filter section of the housing to the round bracket:-( It's somewhere in the engine compartment, or has fallen off on the road since. Have to wait a week for a replacement...

Overall, not a bad morning's work, except for the tires which I had done at the local Firestone dealer who beat the TireRack's price by 5%. Next is brake fluid and spark plugs, though I may let the dealer tackle those unless someone has some good tips as I've never done those before on this vehicle- and never changed brake fluid at all...

Incidentally, pretty good reliability so far after over 4 years and 45k miles. It did need a new radiator last summer, but fortunately that was covered under the 3/36 basic warranty. We also had a loose rear window motor and a driver side vanity mirror (light failed) replaced under warranty.

pathtomax · November 2003

I should fee less than adequate to ask this after Tim's detailed overview of his do-it-yourself list above...

Does anyone out there 'winterize' their car? I have to bring mine in for a routing oil change and wondered if I should have them get it ready for NH winters- and what that may entail.

lfdal · November 2003

I thought the spin on filter was a no maintenance item - good for the lifetime of the car (FWIW I plan on changing the one in our OBW at 50k anyway).

But, isn't there a regular screen type filter that needs to have the pan dropped as well?

Just asking.

Larry

K9Leader · November 2003

This is a follow up to postings a couple of weeks ago about the dog guard/gate. I did order one from Subaru-Parts.com (Lithia Subaru in Oregon). I had to return the first one as I ordered the wrong one -- I knew that there was a difference between the one for the moonroof-equipped car and standard but must have hit the wrong button or something when I placed the online order. Lithia Subaru was very good about it and got the new one to me very quickly.

It fits fairly well, but did require about a half-hour of fussing and fiddling and repositioning before it seemed right. After three weeks of driving around with it, including a 650-mile roundtrip this weekend (without the dogs, though), it is still tight and rattle-free. I have some lock-tite ready if it becomes necessary.

It fits best about 5 inches from the seatback, which, if the retractable cargo cover is not installed, leaves enough of a gap that my Brittany thinks she can squeeze through. Even if she can't, it is likely that she will get stuck and probably rip up the seats/tear the leather with her claws. Consequently, I have put the cargo cover back in to block the gap -- I never used it so had taken it out and left it in the garage.

I would prefer the guard fit closer to the seatback so I could dispense with the cargo cover.

At this point, I would recommend it, but it is pricey and the pressure-mounting system is still a question mark in my mind. However, it appears to be better than anything else I've seen on the market.

--K9Leader
2000 OBW Ltd, 41,746 miles

lfdal · November 2003

One of those personal, OCD, religious issues for some. I like to change my battery every four years. I also do a cooling system flush (not drain and fill but an actual flush) every three years. A transmission flush (or drain and fill) depending upon the fluid condition every 40-50K, and a brake fluid flush once every two years.

Check the belts, a top to bottom inspection of brakes, boots, linkages, etc. At this time of year, I buy a set of winter blades. Also a good time to look at tread left on the tires.

Most garages/dealers have some kind of "Check-it-for-winter" specials. Just read the offer carefully and see what it includes (or omits).

I admit to being OCD about maintenance.

HTH

Larry

lfdal · November 2003

Talk about different fits in different cars - I had to mount mine between the seat back and the cargo cover holders. Further back closer to the hatch didn't go at all well.

Larry

ateixeira · November 2003

Lance: sounds great. Is the spare a donut? Of course even if it isn't, that doesn't mean the US won't get a donut.

Good going, Tim! You've been busy. I'm approaching 60k on the Forester, so pretty soon I will, too.

Check the fluid level in your batteries, first and foremost! I used almost half a gallon of distilled water in our fleet.

-juice

ozman62 · November 2003

I replaced my tires on my '98 Forester with Nokian WRs in mid August. As Vince noted, one of the few (only?) all-season tires with the severe weather rating. I chose them because of the nature of Calgary's winters. We can have horrible winter weather one week,the next, a chinook blows in, and the roads are dry ( and gravelly). It seems that their dual nature should be ideal for this range of conditions. I plan to use them as a fall/winter/ spring solution, and run a more performance oriented tire for the summer.
My impressions so far after approximately 10k kms; In dry conditions- nice riding, maybe slightly noisier than the touring tires they replaced (duh!), a little squirmy at the cornering limit, but still decent lateral traction. Minimal tramlining. Wet traction and cornering seems good, aquaplaning resistance should be excellent as well, due to the large grooves, but I haven't actually tested them in those conditions. Now for the fun part, winter weather. Calgary has been blessed with a fairly good start to winter, cold temps and lots of snow that, of course has turned into about 3" of ice. The Nokians have been excellent. Great snow traction, adequate ice grip, and overall very confidence inspiring. The maker brags that their focus is on lateral grip in snowy conditions, and I would say they've done well. I would recommend these tires, maybe a little more $$$, but worth it.
Regards,
Owen

goosegog · November 2003

Lance, your climate is probably wrong for it, but if you know any Brits ask them. The Americans have an excuse...the thing is almost unknown there. Canadians? Well, those of British origin might know but most won't.

subah6 · November 2003

Ateixeira,

Yes, full size ALLOY spare. for the Outback

Subaru Legacy/Outback

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