Rebates, Incentives, APRs - Questions & Comments

qbrozen · June 2005

Because, obviously, you'd pay taxes on the rebate if it came off after calculating the tax, but not if the rebate came off beforehand.

By the way, dawg_fan, the tax is calculated BEFORE the down payment. And, yes, I'm pretty sure you pay tax on the rebate, as well. Works the same as a mail-in rebate on something you buy at the store. You pay tax on the whole purchase, THEN get the cash back.

ddelise · June 2005

Yes, sorry I was not clear. In most states, you pay the tax on the amount of the consumer rebate (as well as GM Card Money).

Let's say your rebate is $2000, tax rate is 6% - then you pay $120 tax on the rebate.

I leased a Maxx a few months ago. I had about $5500 in rebates and GM Card Money - so I paid about $400 in taxes on the rebates.

Damon

mldj98 · June 2005

Fredvh,

Most people who posts items in this forum are trying to be helpful for the most part.
You do sometimes get people who place a post on this site who are a little rude to say the least...and most of the time these types of people get ignored. So you can just take some of these posts with a grain of salt and move on. The most important thing in this forum is to gain knowledge in the car buying game so you can be prepared....trust me...the dealerships are ready to play...and their prize is going to be your money....the more knowledge you have...the less money they take from you!

As far as rebates go....you should always talk about the price of the car before all rebates, period. Most of the time the dealerships act like they are the ones giving the rebates when in fact it is the manufacturer that gives the reabates.
The biggest difference in discussing the price of the car before all rebates is because that is what you are going to get taxed on. Now you might say big deal, right? Well if you have rebates ranging from $1000 to $5000 at a tax rate of 6% to 8.75% (in some states) you are talking about hundreds of dollars!
That is why I get a little upset when dealerships advertise the price of the car to include rebates when in fact that is false advertisement. They are not actually selling the car for that amount, but are charging you a different amount once you sit down to do the deal.
Again, knowledge is power no matter what you are trying to accomplish...but in the car buying game it can say you big $$$$.
Just my thoughts though...good hunting!

dawg_fan · June 2005

I believe that your question was answered (fredvh) about the difference it makes. I don't want to pay anymore in taxes than i have to but you gotta pay it on the rebate amount. Also (gbrozen) is right in that taxes are calulated before down payment unless you are trading and at that point the trade is deducted then taxed. Hypothetically if your trade is $10K and your tax rate is 6%, you would essentially be getting 10.6K because of taxes saved (saved is used very loosely,not paid is more like it). I don't know if i cleared anything up or made it more confusing but ya get the drift

delrick · June 2005

It appears as though that is indeed what GM has opted to do. :mad:

Being a long time "captive" GM customer since I qualified for GMS pricing, I find this to be a liberating event.

Since I no longer have any price advantage as a result of employee status, I can survey the field to find the best deal out there, any manfacturer.

Since I need to replace my leased Envoy this month, what have you heard about incentivized lease programs on SUV's? Any particularly appealing deals?

GM has never been terribly supportive of their lease financing, and I think I want to drive something different.

Have been a regular reader of your lease site for years.

Glad to see that you are sharing your expertise in other areas as well.

Thanks... :shades:

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

So GM Card points can be used in conjunction with this program. Thanks for the info, aabr. I guess that it makes sense otherwise you would have a whole bunch of annoyed cardholders with worthless earnings, for this month at least, out there.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

Thanks for being such a loyal reader, delrick

. I see what you are saying. Have you thought about the Honda Pilot or the Acura MDX, both are very nice trucks that have pretty good lease programs available on them right now. The Toyota 4Runner is pretty nice as well. If you still want to stay with a domestic vehicle, Ford is practically giving Explorers and Expeditions away.

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jamesam · June 2005

HOST: I'm negotiating on a Caddy SRX. Apparently Caddy is offering no rebates. I am being quoted GM employee price (MFRs invoice minus 3% holdback plus document fee--and in this case the doc fee is $175).
(a) What about instant rebate coupons? In addition to negotiating the doc fee -- should I be able to get some of those $250 instant rebate coupons that folks were talking about on this site last Spring?
(b) Last Spring the GM credit card allowance was doubled on certain GM trucks/SUVs. But that info only came by mail and wasn't on their web site. How can I find out if there is some offer like that going on now?

towit · June 2005

I guess I still don't get it.
At the Pontiac dealership, I was given a GMS price on a Vibe and a final price after the rebate is applied.
At the Chevy dealership, I was told the GMS on a Malibu includes the rebate. Which contradicts what you say.
So one of these salespeople is wrong, but which one?

Thanks,
Towit

norrie1 · June 2005

I am interested in a 2005 Saab 9-5 Linear or Arc wagon. Because of the GM discount program, does it mean that all the dealers will charge the same price for the same model, or can it still be negotiated? Does anyone know of any other incentive associated with the models, or is the discount program the best deal for the models?

qbrozen · June 2005

you get GMS, THEN subtract rebates.

norrie1 · June 2005

Do you know any rebate on Saab 9-5 wagon?

volvobuyer1 · June 2005

Could you Would you please let me know any Volvo s60 incentives this month...I want to purchase

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

Hi jamesam. The Instant Value Certificate program that General Motors was running on Cadillacs in April and May was scheduled to expire on May 31st. I do not believe that it was renewed. As a result, you can not use them to your advantage during negotiations this month. The only incentive that I have seen on the 2005 Cadillac SRX, and that it definitely using the term incentive loosely, is 6.25% financing through GMAC for up to 5 years. You probably will be able to beat this rate by financing through an independent bank.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

Norrie1, as you already are aware, Saabs are eligible for GM's employee purchase program this month. In addition to being able to purchase the 2005 Saab 9-5 that you are interested in at invoice minus holdback, the $2,500 dealer cash that GM is providing on this model should be subtracted from its selling price. The prices of vehicles that are purchased through this program are not negotiable, so you should just be able to go into any participating dealer and get the 9-5 that you want for the lowest possible price.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

Greetings to the appropriately named volvobuyer1. You are in luck, Volvo just increased its dealer cash on the S60 this month. In June, it is providing $5,500 dealer cash on 2005 S60 2.4 models, $3,500 on well equipped S60 2.5T models, and $4,500 on T5 and R versions.

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merckx · June 2005

Currently,the Saab site suggests a base 9-5 with no options can be purchased for the "employee" price of $30,800...do you mean an additional $2,500 can be taken off yhat price?

badger2 · June 2005

I ordered a Jeep Liberty on 04/22/05. I'm now told it has been built and shipped, and should be at my dealer shortly after 06/18/05. At the time of order, the dealer said rebates in effect could not be guaranteed when the Jeep arrives. Sure enough, one of the rebates expired 05/31/05 and does not appear to have been renewed.

I called DaimlerChrysler CS and was told my ordered qualified for "Customer Sold Order Protection" and that rebates in effect at time of order would be honored. I called the dealer back. Sales mgr there told me he hates it when the manufacturer gives customers bad info and makes them expect something they can't have. He said he never heard of "Customer Sold Order Protection" for rebates. He claims that only applies to manufacturer price increases.

I called DaimlerChrysler CS again, spoke to a different rep, and was told the same thing again...Rebates in effect at time of order apply. He suggested I contact the DC District Mgr if the dealer keeps telling me I can't get the rebates.

So, what's the deal? Is DC customer service wrong, or is the dealer uninformed or worse (trying to screw me out of my rebates)?

norrie1 · June 2005

Car_man, I'd love to hear about your reply to message #3007 from merckx. I have the same question. Thanks.

no1b4me1 · June 2005

Car man, I was interested in what site shows the dealer cash of $2500 that GM is providing on the 2005 Saab 9-5. I didn't see this listed on edmunds, if you have the link can you post? Thanks.

teflon80 · June 2005

looking VW 2005 passat gls fwd auto sedan. i'm getting 22,377. that's well below invoice. the 1500 incentive is probably already included right? I heard that the wagons have a 3,500 rebate. any confirmation?

i heard volvo is having crazy rebates as well

what are the incentives for the s40 2.4i vs s40 T5 or v50 2.4i vs v50 T5

kerley1 · June 2005

I am looking to buy a 2005 Chevy Trailblazer. I have already secured financing through my credit union at 4.99%. Today at a dealership, the salesman said that if I do a GMAC Smartbuy that I can get an additional $2500 off of my purchase price. He said that since I really want finance through a regular loan that I could turn around after I make my first Smartbuy payment and refinance through my credit union. I told him that I would have to check with my credit union on Monday.

Has anyone had any dealings with the smartbuy program? Taking the additional $2500 off would really help me a lot but I'm nervous about this because I haven't done this type of a purchase before. Any advice would be greatly appreciated?

mexigrl · June 2005

Please help - I'm in car dealer limbo. My dealer says that I can not use the current GM employee pricing AND the Conquest rebate. Another dealer has an ad in todays paper showing a Pontiac Vibe including Conquest and GM employee pricing. No one seems to be able to agree. I can't find anything on the GM website. Is there some way to settle this?

Thanks!

Mexigrl

cornellpinoy · June 2005

Can someone tell me how to look up what the GM employee price is for a particular vehicle by entering a VIN? I've been on gm.com and gmbuypower.com and can't find this even though its mentioned in all the press releases.

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

jamesam · June 2005

Don't rebates AUTOMATICALLLY belong to the customer---with the manufacturer's check being payable to the cutaomer's name---UNLESS YOU SIGN IT OVER TO THE DEALER???? In order for the dealer to cheat you out of the rebate, he would have to make you sign over the rebate to him, right? ABSOLUTLELY REFUSE to do this, and if he is playing a game--you should soon find out. Send copies of your contract order to the district manager and cc the dealer--then tell the dealer in writing you arent closing the deal until you get a firm written answer on the final price--and then sit tight until you get a wrtten confirm either one way or the other from GM. If the dealer balks tell him he can always urge GM to provide a quicker answer. When you sign the final papers, you should hand write on any document you execute with the dealer that any reabte due from GM belongs to you and must be paid directly to you and not to the dealer. If the deaIer balks at that he is playing games with you--if he's right and there is no reabte then your "annnotation" causes him no harm. Alternatively he can adjust the price of your purchase by deducting the rebate. You need to play hardball herew, and stand firm.

rroyce10 · June 2005

.. **Send copies of your contract order to the district manager and cc the dealer**...

.. and that accomplishes what ....?

Terry.

kevin16 · June 2005

Question for those more experienced than I:

I've got a employee pricing certificate from a family member and am looking at the Pontiac Vibe. I know that the GMS price is calculated, then incentives are subtracted. Base MSRP is $17,690.00, and with the Discount for Everyone it is priced at 15,137.65 after incentives. I assume that the current $1000 cash allowance incentive is factored into that price? If so, that is roughly $2500 off the MSRP.

My question is: should I buy this month, or wait until next month? Am I correct in reasoning that next month there will again be comperable dollar value incentives (about $2500), and I could use my employee price certificate AND then take off the incentives for a price around $13,000?

danf1 · June 2005

It is hard to say what incentives will be next month. Gm did lower most of its rebates to offer the employee pricing to everyone. What that has done is made people who qualify for GMS pricing the same as the rest of the world. I bought my CTS last month with GMS. On a leaase there was $3500 in rebates. This month it is $1000. I'm glad I did it last month. Nobody can tell what will happen next month, but if you do qualify for GMS, it is unlikely that you will get hurt by waiting.

dobygirl301 · June 2005

You cant do it by looking up the VIN (at least as far as I can tell) but what you can do is go to gmbuypower and search by dealer inventory...if you know the dealer you want has the car you want you should be able to find the vehicle. From the GMbuypower homepage, click on "locate dealer" at the top of the page. Enter in the GM make you are interested in along with your zip code and then a list of dealers in your area will populate. You can then click on the dealer of your choice - it will then take you to the dealers page where you will want to click "shop by model", select the model of car you want, then select "search dealer inventory" then select the "style" and click "go to dealer inventory". This will list available vehicles at your dealership with retail prices and the VIN number. Under the retail price is the button for the GM employee discount. This populates another window which will give you the price and is available to print out with the VIN number on it. I hope this helps - it sounds more complicated than it really is.

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

Hi everyone. As many of you have been able to tell, I have been away for a few days. I'm back in the loop now and would be more than happy to answer any specific questions that you have for me.

Car_man
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wdaveo1 · June 2005

Just wanted to add that we have a local dealer who is offering "30% off the dealer's profit" in addition to the GMS price.

For example, we were looking at a Malibu Maxx. This dealers shows us the GMS price (approx. $24K), then shows us the dealer profit at that price (approx. $1200), then reduces the cost by 30% of that $1200 (approx. $360).

So, the dealers are still making money at the GMS price AND if you go to Piconning MI you can get an extra $300-500 below GMS.

Too bad we didn't really care for the MAXX, a bit too small for us.

no1b4me1 · June 2005

Car_man, can you answer question #3010, thanks.

cornellpinoy · June 2005

Thanks for the info. For whatever reason, GM lists the price for all brands except Saab. And just my luck, Saab 9-3s are what I'm trying to reseach.

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

No1b4me1, I am not sure why the $2,500 dealer cash that Saab is currently providing on the 2005 9-5 Sedan is not listed in the incentive section of this site, but it definitely exists. If I am not mistaken, any cash incentives, be they customer or dealer cash, should automatically be deducted from the selling prices of vehicles that are retailed through GM's employee purchase program.

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wandererx · June 2005

Does GM's new discount only come off of the MSRP? What is it exactly? A specific percent or a set dollar figure?

I have been talking with a dealer that insists on charging the MSRP, minus the rebate and "employee discount" and won't even talk anywhere near Edmunds TMV.

mahoneyja · June 2005

I'm considering the Saab 9 2-X and am looking on the GM website for listed employee price. The MSRP is listed at $23,685.00 - $27,645.00, and the employee price is quoted at $16,821.00 which is an incredibly high discount compared to other employee discounts I've seen such as the Vibe at ~ $2000 less than MSRP.

Two other 9 2-X offers are listed on the GM website, the first is 0% financing and the second is $5,000 to $6,000 cash back with GMAC Financing. Would it be fair to assume the $16,821.00 includes the cash back? I will probably pay cash for which ever car I purchase, so does that mean the cash back does not apply to me and my price will be $16,821 + $5000 - holdback?

Thanks

kyfdx · June 2005

The $16,821 is the Employee price minus the $5000 cash back.... That is for the base 9-2X Linear.. Your cost will be $16,821..

norrie1 · June 2005

I am offering a local dealer $28000 for 2005 Volvo V70 (premium and climate packages)(the advertised price is ~$30-$31k). Instead they offered to sell me a same packaged 2005 Volvo V70 demo with 1000 miles on it for $28,500. Is this a good buy if I can get it for $28,000? Many thanks.

qbrozen · June 2005

2.4? 2.5T? or T5?
stick or auto?

assuming a 2.4 and auto, carsdirect in my area tells me i could get this for $29,397. (which probably means a good negotiator could do slightly better ...) Anyway, for an extra $1K, I'd take the non-demo model, personally.

If a 2.5T, i get a price of $30,917... in which case, I'd take the demo to save $3K.

paul138 · June 2005

carman,
is there a section here @ Edmunds.com that lists dealer holdback amounts for different vehicles?
Also do these holdback amounts stay the same throughout the year?
thanks,
Paul

paul138 · June 2005

car man,

to go along with my post above.Would this be an accurate way
to find the actual dealer "cost" ?
Invoice+destination-incentives/rebates-holdbacks?

and then add .04 of this total to the amount for profit
and would that be a fair price to purchase the car?
I am sure its not this simple, but does this method get you close
to coming up with a fair price??
thanks,
Paul

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

Hi wandererx. General Motors' employee purchase program provides specific selling prices for new vehicles, it is not a type of cash incentive that is deducted from a vehicle's MSRP. Dealers who elect to participate in this program must charge consumers at most dealer invoice minus holdback minus any available cash incentives plus $75 for new GM vehicles. If you are being charged any more than this then something isn't right and you should shop around with a different dealer. This should not be a problem given the large number of GM dealers out there.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

Hello mahoneyja. See my previous post for a description of how GM's employee purchase prices for vehicles are calculated. It sounds as though the $5,000 to $6,000 customer cash that GM is providing on the 2005 Saab 9-2X is being deducted from the price that you saw. If you pay cash for a 2005 Saab 9-2X Linear you would be able to get it for invoice minus holdback minus $5,000 customer cash. If you opt to finance it at 0% for 5 years through GMAC your price would be just invoice minus holdback. $75 must be added to this vehicle's price regardless of how you pay for it.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

Hello norrie1. I am not personally all that familiar with what the market is like for the 2005 Volvo V70 in your area right now, but you should be able to get a good idea of what you should pay for this vehicle by visiting the following discussion: "Volvo XC70/V70: Prices Paid & Buying Experience".

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

Hello Paul. You can find the information that you are looking for in the following section of this site: Edmunds.com - Dealer Holdback. A word of warning though, while it is good to know about mentioning dealer holdback during negotiations is not a good idea. How much over invoice that you have to pay depends upon the supply of and the demand for the vehicle that you are interested in. Some vehicles that are in ample supply, like the Honda Accord or the Ford Focus for instance will sell for very close to invoice. Other vehicles, such as the new Lexus RX400h will sell for much closer to full MSRP. If you let us know which model or models you are interested in we can give you an idea of how much you should pay, or at least point you in the right direction.

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jaserb · June 2005

Just FYI, my brother looked at 2 9-2X models yesterday, and at least this particular dealer had them equipped only two ways. One package was a 5-speed Linear with moonroof and cold weather packages and the bottom line with employee pricing was 18,4XX. The other package was Aero with cold weather and automatic and was going for $21,1XX. There are NO Aero 5 speeds left in the entire country - probably a good thing for my marriage.

-Jason

moparbad · June 2005

There is an Aero 5 speed with cold weather pkg at dealership 5 miles from me. It is silver in color. There ARE Aero 5 speeds available.

paul138 · June 2005

car man:

thanks,...the car I was looking at was the Maxima SE,no additonal options.
The price I was quoted was$ 24,654 which includes destination
and the 1250.00 cash incentive.The only other charge besides tax
and title is a 120.00 document fee.
I thought it seemed like a pretty fair price,what are your thoughts?
thanks...Paul

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

Thanks for the info Jason. I know what you mean about your inability to get the performance version of this car with a manual transmission being good for your marriage

.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

You're welcome Paul. I believe that the dealer invoice price for a 2005 Nissan Maxima SE with an automatic transmission, but no other options is currently $25,726. When we subtract the $1,250 customer cash that Nissan is currently providing on this model from this price we arrive at $24,476. You were quoted a selling price of $24,654, which looks to be around $200 over invoice after the customer cash is deducted. Given the fact that most Nissan dealers will qualify for an additional $250 dealer cash on this car, your price is really around $450 over invoice, but this is a reasonable price for this car.

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Rebates, Incentives, APRs - Questions & Comments

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