Wwalega, Jeep dealers received a one-time payment of $2,750 for all of the Grand Cherokee Laredos that they still had in stock as of August 1st. No additional cash other than this amount will be paid on this model.
JasV3, I am not aware of any incentives that Ford is currently offering on the Expedition other than the $350 - $700 Volume Bonus Program. It's tough to say exactly what percentage you can subtract from the MSRP of a vehicle in order to get a good deal. It is easier to figure out the dealer cost of the truck and then add in a fair profit. Look up the dealer invoice of the exact Expedition that you want including the invoice prices of any options, subtract the holdback and the volume bonus and add in the destination charge. Now that you have the dealer cost add in a fair profit.
I'm in the market for a '98 Honda Accord EX V6 w/ 4dr. I live in CO and they're in short supply so they're not going to come down too much on the sticker price. Do you think they'll come down in Oct-Nov when the '99's come in or am I going to have to suck it up. Does Honda normally offer any rebates or special deals that time of year?
Thanks for the response. Just cut a deal for '98 Ford Exp Eddie Bauer... MSRP was $39,500 after package disount. Sold it for $33,000 or approx $1,300 under invoice. Seems like a good deal. Guess it was time to clear out the '98's!!
Krisjonathan, I wouldn't count on getting any year end discounts on Accords from Honda. These cars sell so well on their own that they probably won't have to provide any support. You may find that dealers are a little more willing to lower their prices on 1998 models as the '99s hit showrooms, though.
Chevy has ad in USAToday re $2500 cash back on the Blazer. Will this also apply to a Lease? Also, will this also apply to a GMC Jimmy? I assume this is a new ad since I haven't noticed it before??? Thanks, Ronaries@aol.com Please e mail me direct also.
Which holdback number is correct ? The summary by manufacturer listed on the description of dealer holdback page or the number listed with the new car reviews.
For instance. Acura TL has one number stating 2% and another showing 3.5%
Ronaries, you are right GM recently increased its rebate on the Blazer to $2,500. This change should be reflected in the Edmund's Rebates and Incentives page. Yes, GMC has the same $2,500 on the Jimmy. Unfortunately, I don't believe that this cash may be used on leased units.
I have just decided to look for a 98 Pontiac Bonneville. From everything that I have learned while researching the prices, I understand that there is a good chance that there are some dealer incentives that I may be able to negotiate off the price of the car.
How do I find out if any dealer incentives exist? Would you know what they are at this time?
BigRob, I believe that Acura's actual holdback is 2%. However, Honda tacks an additional 1.5% advertising charge on to this figure so that it actually ends up being 3.5%.
i'm trying to negociate on a Camry XLE. The dealer is claiming that his cost is the dealer base invoice as published here PLUS 2%. I thought his true cost was base invoice LESS 2%. Can anyone clear this up for me as soon as possible? Thanks
I recently purchased a Nissan Quest (end of June)...I was happy with my deal...but almost the next day Nissan began offering $2000 rebates. Any recourse?
I'm ready to buy a new Chevy Venture. I've dealt with dealers before using "invoice" as a base price but was never aware of the 3% dealer holdback on GM cars. So, I want to negotiate this time with this knowledge.
Just to warm up (my plan was to use Edmunds AutoByTell-thingy to find a dealer, as I've done in the past) I went to the dealer around the corner. I immediately mentioned I wanted to deal off of invoice, and he seemed OK with that. I mentioned the dealer holdback, and he had a problem. His claim was that "can't be counted as profit" (yea, right) and that nobody sees this money for 3 months. Still, the dealer is in line to make $600+ on my car. How do I get this reduced? I've read that salemen don't make anything on this. Has anyone succeeded in using the knowledge of dealer holdbacks to lower the final price of their purchase? The topic is addressed as information on Edmund's pages, but it never is detailed as a bargaining tool.
Would like to buy a car next week (Monday?). Wouldn't mind buying from this dealer, as long as I can get my price. Thanks in advance,
Glagen, many dealers try to turn around their holdback and charge consumers an extra 2% on their deal. However, you are right. Toyota's 2% (of invoice)holdback should be subtracted from the cost of the vehicle, not added to it.
Pvanmaan, I doubt that there is anything that you can do to get that incentive. If your dealership sold you the Quest before that rebate began then your van is not entitled to receive the $2,000. Not to mention the fact that the $2,000 program began over a month ago. Nissan has had incentives on the Quest for quite some time now. There may not have been $2,000 on the Quest when you purchased it, but there definitely was some cash.
Dear Car-man, HELP! Friday my husband and I visited the Isuzu dealer, armed with all the necessary Edmund's Info (I'd been gearing up for this for the last month and felt quite prepared). We are interested in a Rodeo LS, pretty loaded, with 4200 miles on it. I figured the invoice to be $27,239 plus $445 Dest. charge, plus $250 Advertising fee, MINUS $1,000 cash back and $500 dealer incentive as well as $940 holdback. Okay, with my figures, the dealer cost is $25,494. Figuring in a profit and subtracting for some miles and the fact that it is a demo (of course they always insist it's NOT a used car...though the driver of this demo told me how great the vehicle handled on his camping trips...go figure!) we began our offer at $26,000 and went up to $26,200 before the manager finally came out with the invoice.
Here's where I became a bit confused, and annoyed...first the salesperson told me that THEY have to pay the holdback out of their commission (that was after he tried telling me he didn't know what the holdback was). Then the manager showed me the invoice at $27,440 (close to my figures, a good sign) BUT after the advertising fee the holdback was listed as an additional charge ($963) and after that charge was a $321 charge for "floor plans" (i.e. insurance $ to keep the cars on the lot). He got very "hot under the collar" trying to explain to me that Isuzu doesn't PAY the holdback to the dealership and that it is added into the invoice for the customer to pay. Is there any truth to this or are they "double dipping" on the holdback? We basically got up and left in disgust (I told them I'd check out my resources and get back to them). We got 3 calls from them yesterday and I went up to $26,500 over the phone, so as not to waste anymore time at the dealership. The salesperson called back and said they would do $26,500 but that I must add the dest. charge to that to equal $26,945. He insisted that the manager wouldn't budge on the holdback (but is that really a double holdback?) and that they are basically making no profit at this price.
First he said I could have until today (being the last day of the month, they'd like to get it off the lot and not pay insurance for the month). Then he called back and said the manager insisted I make my decision within three hours (before they closed) that it was a one day offer and then they'd have to "post" it. Well, I won't buy under pressure and called him back to say so, but he wasn't around when I phoned so I just left a message (just that I called) and haven't heard back.
Being the last day of the month, I need to know Car-man...Is 26,945 a good deal (I figure they'd still sell it to us unless someone else bought it) or should I venture elsewhere for a brand new one and pay a little more. I really just want this holdback issue cleared up (and while we're on the subject, is Toyota the same way or are they like the American companies?). They were so insistent on telling me that the Isuzu manufacturer handles holdbacks differently than other companies.
Please help!!
My sincere thanks (and apologies for the length) Stacey
Car_Man...accoring to this Edmunds site..during the month of June there was no incentive on the Quest. The dealer was offering $5K off of MSRP though...which brought it well under invoice accoring to the $$ here at this site.
Car_Man...Got a question about dealer incentives. I went to negotiate on a 1998 Mazda 626 LX (invoice $15,909). Their MSRP matched what you had ($17,650), but they had added about $500 in options bringing the MSRP to around $18,100. Even if I add the entire $500 to the base invoice price, that brings invoice to around $16,400.
First of all, he came out with a piece of paper showing invoice to be around $17,300. When I told him my information showed $16,400, he said my information was incorrect.
Secondly, I came up with my offer price by taking $16,400 + $450 (destination) - $1,750 (rebate) - $1,435 (incentive) - $360 (2% holdback on MSRP) + $543 (3% profit on MSRP) + $800 (5.75% Tax) + $200 (Title). That totals $14,848 out the door before trade. I offered him $14,900.
He basically told me to blow it out my ear and there were a lot of errors in my thinking. The two biggest things were that I could not take dealer incentives off the invoice price, only the MSRP, because it is something they offer and they do not get back from the manufacturer. Secondly, he said the rebate had to be included in the taxable amount, but the incentives did not. So, the long and the short of it was that we were between $1,500 - $2,000 apart and he said "see ya later."
Car_Man, did I do my figures correctly? Is he correct that dealer incentives can only be taken off the MSRP and not the invoice?
I guess I am looking for someone to tell me I did the right thing by walking out. And if I had bought it, I would have been getting ripped off.
I think I may have a better understanding of this very odd Isuzu invoice...(A manager from a dealership thru Auto-vantage phoned me today and sounded legit...please let me know if this sounds fishy). He told me that most other manufacturers "pad" their invoice prices by 2 or 3% before sending them to the dealership (he used GM as an example explaining that there are actually 2 invoice prices...one side has the invoice, the other shows a 3% markup on the invoice...still doesn't sound right to me but I'm new at this). He then explained that Isuzu just puts one lump sum on the invoice (called holdback) instead of adding it directly to the individual options, and that this final invoice price is their price. Once they sell the vehicle, they get back their 3% only. He also said that Edmund's invoice numbers were incorrect as they did not figure this in. I've read a number of complaints on hiked up dealer invoices from many different dealerships. How are we to know what is legitimate?
He said he'd offer me the truck (Rodeo LS, leather, etc.) at $99 over invoice minus incentives and said there was a $1000 cash back as well as $1000 dealer incentive. I only read about a $500 dealer incentive. Did he make a mistake or is that new for September? In essence he's offering the truck for near $27,000 which is what the other dealership wanted for the demo. Of course, he wouldn't fax me the offer and said I should come in. I guess we'll see what pans out.
Scotarnold, let me begin by saying that the current Mazda incentives expired yesterday. So, even though there was $1,750 Consumer cash on the 626 last month, it doesn't mean that this amount is exactly the same right now. We will probably post the new incentives up on our site later on this week. The pricing information provided here at Edmunds is extremely accurate. The dealer invoice price that we have listed for this model is almost definitely correct. The dealer may be trying to trick you into thinking that his price for this vehicle is higher than it actually is. I'm not sure what the $1,435 "incentive" that you listed is. This may be some sort of rebate that the dealership is offering customers. If so, then then don't necessarily have to give it to you. One thing that you overlooked is that there is currently a dealer volume bonus program on this car that can provide up to an additional $1,500 dealer cash. I don't think that your offer was outrageous as the dealer made it out to be. You will probably end up paying a little more for this car, but shop around you never know.
at a mazda dealer last night (1st. one) i finally got the sales manager to agree that the invoice and incentives amounted to a price of 14300. but his reply was that he had no profit. then a stalemate. he kept trying to sell one with 1500 miles. i got up and walked. i will be going to #2 as soon as i take a shower. same car 98 626 lx.
i probobly would be paying thousands more if not for this edmunds site. thanks edmunds and carman!!
And the story goes on.....I got a call back yesterday from a different sales rep. at the same dealership I was two days before (1998 Mazda 626 LX). She said she talked to the owner and they would still honor the $1,750 rebate and $1,435 dealer incentive. When I told her I could afford $15,000 out the door after trade in (1990 Tempo), she said she thought those figures were do-able. I took off from work an hour early to make there on time.
We started going through the paperwork and everything seemed find. In fact, as we were doing it, she said she heard the rebate just went up to $2,500. I'm thinking - Great!
She went to talk to the Sales Manager, and when she came back she said the best they could do was $100 lower than the offer they gave me on Monday ($16,500). She said the Manager said they would only offer the $1,750 rebate - not the $1,435 dealer incentive. Plus, he said the sales rep. was wrong that the rebate had gone up.
I asked to talk to the Manager. When he came out I told him that was upset that I came here only because they said my offer of $15,000 out the door after trade in was do-able. But after I got there, the whole story changed and they were still basically at the same offer as Monday. The Sales Manager proceeded to say (and I quote), "You know what you're problem is, is that you made a dumb move when you turned down our offer on Monday."
Needless to say we got into a little bit of a shouting match and I walked out. I also will not be going back there even if they call me again to try and reconsider. Aren't there any laws against "baiting" a customer like that?
Marcv9604, you are right. Nissan extended its current $2,000 Customer Cash program through the Labor Day weekend. This program was enhanced to $2,500 per model in some regions of the country. If the invoice price of the vehicle that you want to purchase is $17,500 and that's what you pay then the dealer is making $2,500 on the deal. In this situation you will probably be able to purchase a new Nissan for less than the dealer invoice.
Car-man and group, Well I just bought my Mazda 626 LX (on August 30th, under the old rebate program). The information I received here was a great help in determining timing and a good price. Thanks Car-man. For what it's worth, here is what I paid on a straight cash purchase in the Atlanta area:
Mazda 626 LX, new (17 miles on vehicle) Auto transmission Leather Package LX3 Luxury Package (sunroof, allow wheels, power drivers seat, remote keyless ignition, upgraded tires) Ashtray (geez $28 for an ashtray? Too bad my wife smokes. She has vowed not to use it.)
Retail (MSRP with no dealer junk) $21,588 Invoice $19,326 Rebate (including local Mazda cash) -2,250 Final Price I paid 17,076
Plus 6% tax and $360 for tags etc.
There may be better deals out there, but I was very pleased with the outcome and I don't feel like I lost my shirt. By the way, I didn't haggle price at all, the dealer advertised this price and delivered. Anyway, hope this may help by comparison. Maybe Scotarnold can print this off and bring it to his "friendly" neighborhood dealer. Good luck to all. See you in about 3 to 4 years.
Carman: I am about to purchase a Toyota Avalon XLS and I want to know if I am getting a good price: the options (with dealer invoice prices) are diamond white pearl paint (179), premium radio/cassette/CD player w/ 7 spkers (135), split bench seat, leather pkg w/ driver seat memory and heated front seats (1244), mud guards (48), traction control (240), power moonroof (784), Ca. emissions (54--NYS mandated). Total invoice incl. gas (6) and dest. (420), dealer holdback (475) and cash reserve (237) is $28,024. I got the dealer to go to invoice minus cash reserve, but I couldn't get him to budge on the holdback: to $27,787, minus my $100 internet coupon to $27,687. Is this a good price?
I am about to get financing at 7% (or %6.99 if I use dealer), with about $5,000 down for 48 mos. The 7% is my credit union. My husband wants to go with the credit union, despite the dealer savings of .01%, because he feels it's member-driven and not profit-driven. What do you think?
Is it possible to answer asap? I will be talking to dealer again on Sat.
I read that there is a $500 cash back on Avalons in the Avalon disc. group and in Denver newspapers; is that only local? I haven't yet signed purchase agreement, only put $100 deposit on the car to hold it. I have to finalize tomorrow or Tues. 9/8. Will a $500 cash back offer apply to me?
SHMerritt, sorry that it took me so long to respond to your question. I went away for a couple of days. You are definitely getting a good deal if you can get the dealer to sell you an Avalon at invoice. Don't worry about not cutting into their holdback, most dealerships won't let you touch it. They have to make some profit, right? There aren't any national incentives on the Toyota Avalon that I'm aware of. The $500 may be some sort of regional program that's available in your area. As far as your financing is concerned, I personally would go with the lowest rate that I could find. I don't think that there's much difference between financing through the Toyota Motor Credit and a Credit Union. Although in this case the difference between the two rates is so small that it hardly matters. Good Luck purchasing your new Avalon!
Does anybody know what the new deal is for Maxima or Sentra? Edmund does not have the new numbers yet. They had upto $2500 cash back til Labor's Day, but there is no up to date info. The dealer also told me that their incentive program is over as of September 8. What is the status in NE region?
Does anyone have an accurate up-to-date source for rebates and incentives? While shopping my 1998 Transport, All but one dealer had the correct current rebate. Edmunds posts $1,500 and that is what most dealers are saying (I guess in order to pocket another $500...). However, one dealer told me that as of 9/1 the rebate increased to $2,000 and showed the GM paperwork to support it. This is annoying!
Sahinta, I believe that Nissan still has $2,000 on all models in the NE region of the United States. There was a program that provided an additional $500 per unit over the holiday weekend, but that has since expired. The new information should be published up here on the Edmunds site early next week.
Aeckman, I can assure you that Edmunds is the most complete and accurate source of incentives information that is available to the public. It takes time to monitor, collect, and process all of the new incentives that auto companies come out with each month. Manufacturers often enhance their incentives programs without warning, even though they are not scheduled to expire. Our site has already been updated with the revised General Motors incentives since you posted your message. Several GM models received an extra $500 through September 14th.
I'm looking to buy an Infiniti G20-t. The dealers plug in a wood grain interior. Does anyone know what this is worth? Also is anyone aware of the current dealer holdbacks on 1999 models?
Bill38, I believe that Infiniti's holdback is still 1% of the vehicle's MSRP. Although the holdback amount is a good figure to know when trying to get a picture of how much money the dealer is making on your purchase, keep in mind that you will almost never be able to dip into this amount to make a deal. This is especially true on a vehicle that is as new as the G20.
I have been shopping for new cars with the data that I receive from Edmund. A couple of weeks ago, I looked for a 98 Mitsu Galant, where there was .9% APR AND $2750 incentive. The dealer said it is either this or that, but not together. I have been to 3 dealers, heard the same thing and also criticism about Internet.
I got the new incentive and rebate numbers today, and went to an Acura dealer. There is $1000 incentive and 3.9% financing option. I heard the same old story, and they showed me a fax from America Honda, where it says it is either one, but not together. Sales person was pissed off about the Internet thing, he does not like using it, he asked for the print out so that he can write back. He said there are people coming with those numbers asking for the world, the companies are not that stupid to give away everything.
Now, I certainly appreciate Edmund's effort to keep us informed. It was a real eye opener for me about how the industry works and I really love the faint look on the dealer's eyes when I explain there profit margins one by one. I would like to see the data maybe a little bit more up to date nowadays, where there is a deal popping up every day. But more important is the accuracy of the data. I drove an hour for each time going to those dealers and coming back with nothing. Not to mention the feeling of embarrassment or listening to those guys trashing Internet auto sites.
Can somebody inform us about those deals? Is it true that it is either one or the other? Wouldn't that be a rebate vs. low financing? Why is it called incentive?
Sahinta, dealers naturally hate the internet. They remember the good old days when consumers had no idea what vehicles cost them and what incentives were running. Now that consumers have access to the wealth of information that the internet provides they are much more well informed and are able to negotiate better deals. This cuts into the dealership's profits and creates a great deal of animosity aimed at sites such as Edmunds. I can assure you that the information that we provide here at Edmunds is extremely accurate and is as timely as possible. Dealerships often attack the accuracy of information found on the internet in order to create doubt in consumers minds. I'm not saying that there isn't occasionally mistakes in the information posted on the net. Everyone makes mistakes once in a great while, especially when dealing with such a large volume of constantly changing information. However, the information found here is as close to perfect as you are going to find publically. I am familiar with both of the programs that you mentioned. The information in that we listed about both was correct. The dealers were right, you can not combine the cash incentives with the special financing programs. This is almost always the case in the automotive industry. It would be prohibitively expensive for manufacturers to provide consumers with both in most instances. Our incentives pages do not say that these programs may be combined.
Thanks for the response. The incentive page does not say that programs may be combined, but not the opposite either. I think I have misled myself with not finding that piece of information. Also, seeing several deals in Mazda and Nissan of cash rebates and incentives, I thought it would work out.
It is not a mistake on Edmund's site,just a source of misunderstanding for consumers, as I heard that I am not the first person. Could you put a comment besides those deals that they cannot be combined? That might clarify the confusion. Again, thanks for the help.
I was trying to get some info on the Mazda Miata Rebate. I think it is 1500. on the 1999 model but offered only in the Western region. Do you know if Kansas City MO is in the Western Region. Also, would this rebate apply to a lease.
Car man, 1. I am currently negotiating for a "99" Chrysler Sebring Convertible. The dealers have had them on the lots for almost a month, but Edmunds has NO INFORMATION WHATSOEVER on the 99 either pricing or rebate info. Re their any current rebates or incentives?
2. Also the dealer has told me that In Florida their are two additional fees added to every Chrysler Invoice. One for Advertising and another Florida fee. These fees are $210 and $240 adding $450.00 to the "INVOICE COST". Are these fees legitimate or not?
Sahinta, I just sent a note to Edmund's Management requesting that this matter be better explained in our incentives section. Thank you for the helpful suggestion and I am sorry for any confusion that this may have caused you. Thanks.
Oeste, I doubt that Kansas City is in Mazda's Western region. However, I believe that there is cash on the 1999 Miata in your area. I don't know exactly how much there is, but I bet that it is very similar to the $1,500 that is available in other areas. I don't think that this cash can be used in combination with leases, Mazda provides lease rate support on the majority of its models instead of lease cash.
Gwarren, I don't think that there is currently any cash support on the 1999 Chrysler Sebring Convertible. However, there is $1,000 Consumer Cash on the 1999 Sebring Coupe and there is $1,000 Dealer Cash on the 1998 Sebring Convertible. I expect there to be another update to our Chrysler incentives sometime this week, but I don't know if the new information will include anything on the '99 Conv. I have a feeling that it probably won't.
Chrysler dealers frequently add advertising fees to their deals, but I am not aware of any "special" fees for cars that are sold in Florida. This may be some sort of regional ad group charge, or something else. Don't worry about all of the little fees that are associated with your deal. Try to concentrate on the big picture, that is the total amount of money that you are going to pay to drive off into the sunset in your shiny new convertible. Shop around and go with the dealership that offers you the lowest possible drive off cost. That is as long as you feel comfortable with them. Good Luck.
This is my first buy/lease in a while. I'm looking at a '98 Mountaineer.
Calculating with Edmunds I figure that the total Invoice is $28,872. The car has a $1000 dealer incentive and a 3% hold back.
Am I correct in going into the dealer figuring that the dealer's true cost is roughly $26,924? Is this the number that I should negotiate up from (considering that the dealers have plenty of stock and only six weeks until '99 cars arrive)?
I found that the sales people that dispute the accuracy of the prices on the internet, often admit they have never even seen these sites. Also, if these prices are so off, why do they match all the other web-sites and independent printed material/magazines you can buy in a book store? Not to mention, why is just the INVOICE price is off, but not the MSRP??? Furthermore, wouldn't some kind of law suite arise out of all these printed in accuracies?
Of course when you mention that THEIR dealership was spoaken of so highly on a post in Edmunds - the double speak begins to blather out.
It's also amazing how quickley they are willing to show you that their invoice pirce matches your figures (during clearence) - yet 2 months before they swear their invoice price was much higher.
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I assume this is a new ad since I haven't noticed it before???
Thanks,
Ronaries@aol.com
Please e mail me direct also.
Which holdback number is correct ? The summary by manufacturer listed on the description of dealer holdback page or the number listed with the new car reviews.
For instance. Acura TL has one number stating 2% and another showing 3.5%
Thanks,
BigRob.
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How do I find out if any dealer incentives exist?
Would you know what they are at this time?
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Thanks for the response. I think I may be over my head, but I can dream. :')
Kris
Edmunds shows the Ford 0.9% financing rate ending Sept 2, Have you heard will it be extended or better yet combined with incentives on Rangers?
BigRob.
Suffering from (hopefully)temporary brain death. I now see that Ford's incentive runs until Oct 2, not Sept 2. My mistake.
Just to warm up (my plan was to use Edmunds AutoByTell-thingy to find a dealer, as I've done in the past) I went to the dealer around the corner. I immediately mentioned I wanted to deal off of invoice, and he seemed OK with that. I mentioned the dealer holdback, and he had a problem. His claim was that "can't be counted as profit" (yea, right) and that nobody sees this money for 3 months. Still, the dealer is in line to make $600+ on my car. How do I get this reduced? I've read that salemen don't make anything on this. Has anyone succeeded in using the knowledge of dealer holdbacks to lower the final price of their purchase? The topic is addressed as information on Edmund's pages, but it never is detailed as a bargaining tool.
Would like to buy a car next week (Monday?). Wouldn't mind buying from this dealer, as long as I can get my price. Thanks in advance,
Nick
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HELP!
Friday my husband and I visited the Isuzu dealer, armed with all the necessary Edmund's Info (I'd been gearing up for this for the last month and felt quite prepared). We are interested in a Rodeo LS, pretty loaded, with 4200 miles on it. I figured the invoice to be $27,239 plus $445 Dest. charge, plus $250 Advertising fee, MINUS $1,000 cash back and $500 dealer incentive as well as $940 holdback. Okay, with my figures, the dealer cost is $25,494. Figuring in a profit and subtracting for some miles and the fact that it is a demo (of course they always insist it's NOT a used car...though the driver of this demo told me how great the vehicle handled on his camping trips...go figure!) we began our offer at $26,000 and went up to $26,200 before the manager finally came out with the invoice.
Here's where I became a bit confused, and annoyed...first the salesperson told me that THEY have to pay the holdback out of their commission (that was after he tried telling me he didn't know what the holdback was). Then the manager showed me the invoice at $27,440 (close to my figures, a good sign) BUT after the advertising fee the holdback was listed as an additional charge ($963) and after that charge was a $321 charge for "floor plans" (i.e. insurance $ to keep the cars on the lot). He got very "hot under the collar" trying to explain to me that Isuzu doesn't PAY the holdback to the dealership and that it is added into the invoice for the customer to pay. Is there any truth to this or are they "double dipping" on the holdback? We basically got up and left in disgust (I told them I'd check out my resources and get back to them). We got 3 calls from them yesterday and I went up to $26,500 over the phone, so as not to waste anymore time at the dealership. The salesperson called back and said they would do $26,500 but that I must add the dest. charge to that to equal $26,945. He insisted that the manager wouldn't budge on the holdback (but is that really a double holdback?) and that they are basically making no profit at this price.
First he said I could have until today (being the last day of the month, they'd like to get it off the lot and not pay insurance for the month). Then he called back and said the manager insisted I make my decision within three hours (before they closed) that it was a one day offer and then they'd have to "post" it. Well, I won't buy under pressure and called him back to say so, but he wasn't around when I phoned so I just left a message (just that I called) and haven't heard back.
Being the last day of the month, I need to know Car-man...Is 26,945 a good deal (I figure they'd still sell it to us unless someone else bought it) or should I venture elsewhere for a brand new one and pay a little more. I really just want this holdback issue cleared up (and while we're on the subject, is Toyota the same way or are they like the American companies?). They were so insistent on telling me that the Isuzu manufacturer handles holdbacks differently than other companies.
Please help!!
My sincere thanks (and apologies for the length)
Stacey
First of all, he came out with a piece of paper showing invoice to be around $17,300. When I told him my information showed $16,400, he said my information was incorrect.
Secondly, I came up with my offer price by taking $16,400 + $450 (destination) - $1,750 (rebate) - $1,435 (incentive) - $360 (2% holdback on MSRP) + $543 (3% profit on MSRP) + $800 (5.75% Tax) + $200 (Title). That totals $14,848 out the door before trade. I offered him $14,900.
He basically told me to blow it out my ear and there were a lot of errors in my thinking. The two biggest things were that I could not take dealer incentives off the invoice price, only the MSRP, because it is something they offer and they do not get back from the manufacturer. Secondly, he said the rebate had to be included in the taxable amount, but the incentives did not. So, the long and the short of it was that we were between $1,500 - $2,000 apart and he said "see ya later."
Car_Man, did I do my figures correctly? Is he correct that dealer incentives can only be taken off the MSRP and not the invoice?
I guess I am looking for someone to tell me I did the right thing by walking out. And if I had bought it, I would have been getting ripped off.
I think I may have a better understanding of this very odd Isuzu invoice...(A manager from a dealership thru Auto-vantage phoned me today and sounded legit...please let me know if this sounds fishy). He told me that most other manufacturers "pad" their invoice prices by 2 or 3% before sending them to the dealership (he used GM as an example explaining that there are actually 2 invoice prices...one side has the invoice, the other shows a 3% markup on the invoice...still doesn't sound right to me but I'm new at this). He then explained that Isuzu just puts one lump sum on the invoice (called holdback) instead of adding it directly to the individual options, and that this final invoice price is their price. Once they sell the vehicle, they get back their 3% only. He also said that Edmund's invoice numbers were incorrect as they did not figure this in. I've read a number of complaints on hiked up dealer invoices from many different dealerships. How are we to know what is legitimate?
He said he'd offer me the truck (Rodeo LS, leather, etc.) at $99 over invoice minus incentives and said there was a $1000 cash back as well as $1000 dealer incentive. I only read about a $500 dealer incentive. Did he make a mistake or is that new for September? In essence he's offering the truck for near $27,000 which is what the other dealership wanted for the demo. Of course, he wouldn't fax me the offer and said I should come in. I guess we'll see what pans out.
Thanks for your help,
Stacey
Your Co-Host
i probobly would be paying thousands more if not for this edmunds site. thanks edmunds and carman!!
isnt the internet great bart
We started going through the paperwork and everything seemed find. In fact, as we were doing it, she said she heard the rebate just went up to $2,500. I'm thinking - Great!
She went to talk to the Sales Manager, and when she came back she said the best they could do was $100 lower than the offer they gave me on Monday ($16,500). She said the Manager said they would only offer the $1,750 rebate - not the $1,435 dealer incentive. Plus, he said the sales rep. was wrong that the rebate had gone up.
I asked to talk to the Manager. When he came out I told him that was upset that I came here only because they said my offer of $15,000 out the door after trade in was do-able. But after I got there, the whole story changed and they were still basically at the same offer as Monday. The Sales Manager proceeded to say (and I quote), "You know what you're problem is, is that you made a dumb move when you turned down our offer on Monday."
Needless to say we got into a little bit of a shouting match and I walked out. I also will not be going back there even if they call me again to try and reconsider. Aren't there any laws against "baiting" a customer like that?
Your Co-Host
Well I just bought my Mazda 626 LX (on August 30th, under the old rebate program). The information I received here was a great help in determining timing and a good price. Thanks Car-man.
For what it's worth, here is what I paid on a straight cash purchase in the Atlanta area:
Mazda 626 LX, new (17 miles on vehicle)
Auto transmission
Leather Package
LX3 Luxury Package (sunroof, allow wheels, power drivers seat, remote keyless ignition, upgraded tires)
Ashtray (geez $28 for an ashtray? Too bad my wife smokes. She has vowed not to use it.)
Retail (MSRP with no dealer junk) $21,588
Invoice $19,326
Rebate (including local Mazda cash) -2,250
Final Price I paid 17,076
Plus 6% tax and $360 for tags etc.
There may be better deals out there, but I was very pleased with the outcome and I don't feel like I lost my shirt. By the way, I didn't haggle price at all, the dealer advertised this price and delivered.
Anyway, hope this may help by comparison. Maybe Scotarnold can print this off and bring it to his "friendly" neighborhood dealer.
Good luck to all. See you in about 3 to 4 years.
Ed
I am about to purchase a Toyota Avalon XLS and I want to know if I am getting a good price:
the options (with dealer invoice prices) are diamond white pearl paint (179), premium radio/cassette/CD player w/ 7 spkers (135), split bench seat, leather pkg w/ driver seat memory and heated front seats (1244), mud guards (48), traction control (240), power moonroof (784), Ca. emissions (54--NYS mandated). Total invoice incl. gas (6) and dest. (420), dealer holdback (475) and cash reserve (237) is $28,024. I got the dealer to go to invoice minus cash reserve, but I couldn't get him to budge on the holdback: to $27,787, minus my $100 internet coupon to $27,687. Is this a good price?
I am about to get financing at 7% (or %6.99 if I use dealer), with about $5,000 down for 48 mos.
The 7% is my credit union. My husband wants to go with the credit union, despite the dealer savings of .01%, because he feels it's member-driven and not profit-driven. What do you think?
Is it possible to answer asap? I will be talking to dealer again on Sat.
I read that there is a $500 cash back on Avalons in the Avalon disc. group and in Denver newspapers; is that only local? I haven't yet signed purchase agreement, only put $100 deposit on the car to hold it. I have to finalize tomorrow or Tues. 9/8. Will a $500 cash back offer apply to me?
Thank you for your help.
Your Co-Host
Your Co-Host
Your Co-Host
Could you please post new info on Isuzu incentives and rebates?
Andrey
Your Co-Host
I got the new incentive and rebate numbers today, and went to an Acura dealer. There is $1000 incentive and 3.9% financing option. I heard the same old story, and they showed me a fax from America Honda, where it says it is either one, but not together. Sales person was pissed off about the Internet thing, he does not like using it, he asked for the print out so that he can write back. He said there are people coming with those numbers asking for the world, the companies are not that stupid to give away everything.
Now, I certainly appreciate Edmund's effort to keep us informed. It was a real eye opener for me about how the industry works and I really love the faint look on the dealer's eyes when I explain there profit margins one by one. I would like to see the data maybe a little bit more up to date nowadays, where there is a deal popping up every day. But more important is the accuracy of the data. I drove an hour for each time going to those dealers and coming back with nothing. Not to mention the feeling of embarrassment or listening to those guys trashing Internet auto sites.
Can somebody inform us about those deals? Is it true that it is either one or the other? Wouldn't that be a rebate vs. low financing? Why is it called incentive?
Thanks for the help.
Your Co-Host
Thanks for the response. The incentive page does not say that programs may be combined, but not the opposite either. I think I have misled myself with not finding that piece of information. Also, seeing several deals in Mazda and Nissan of cash rebates and incentives, I thought it would work out.
It is not a mistake on Edmund's site,just a source of misunderstanding for consumers, as I heard that I am not the first person. Could you put a comment besides those deals that they cannot be combined? That might clarify the confusion.
Again, thanks for the help.
1. I am currently negotiating for a "99" Chrysler Sebring Convertible. The dealers have had them on the lots for almost a month, but Edmunds has NO INFORMATION WHATSOEVER on the 99 either pricing or rebate info. Re their any current rebates or incentives?
2. Also the dealer has told me that In Florida their are two additional fees added to every Chrysler Invoice. One for Advertising and another Florida fee. These fees are $210 and $240 adding $450.00 to the "INVOICE COST". Are these fees legitimate or not?
Your Co-Host
Your Co-Host
Chrysler dealers frequently add advertising fees to their deals, but I am not aware of any "special" fees for cars that are sold in Florida. This may be some sort of regional ad group charge, or something else. Don't worry about all of the little fees that are associated with your deal. Try to concentrate on the big picture, that is the total amount of money that you are going to pay to drive off into the sunset in your shiny new convertible. Shop around and go with the dealership that offers you the lowest possible drive off cost. That is as long as you feel comfortable with them. Good Luck.
Your Co-Host
Calculating with Edmunds I figure that the total Invoice is $28,872. The car has a $1000 dealer incentive and a 3% hold back.
Am I correct in going into the dealer figuring that the dealer's true cost is roughly $26,924? Is this the number that I should negotiate up from (considering that the dealers have plenty of stock and only six weeks until '99 cars arrive)?
Thanks for any help,
Charlie...
I found that the sales people that dispute the accuracy of the prices on the internet, often admit they have never even seen these sites. Also, if these prices are so off, why do they match all the other web-sites and independent printed material/magazines you can buy in a book store?
Not to mention, why is just the INVOICE price is off, but not the MSRP??? Furthermore, wouldn't some kind of law suite arise out of all these printed in accuracies?
Of course when you mention that THEIR dealership was spoaken of so highly on a post in Edmunds - the double speak begins to blather out.
It's also amazing how quickley they are willing to show you that their invoice pirce matches your figures (during clearence) - yet 2 months before they swear their invoice price was much higher.