Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
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Your Co-Host
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Your Co-Host
I assume this is a new ad since I haven't noticed it before???
Thanks,
Ronaries@aol.com
Please e mail me direct also.
Which holdback number is correct ? The summary by manufacturer listed on the description of dealer holdback page or the number listed with the new car reviews.
For instance. Acura TL has one number stating 2% and another showing 3.5%
Thanks,
BigRob.
Your Host
How do I find out if any dealer incentives exist?
Would you know what they are at this time?
Your Co-Host
Thanks for the response. I think I may be over my head, but I can dream. :')
Kris
Edmunds shows the Ford 0.9% financing rate ending Sept 2, Have you heard will it be extended or better yet combined with incentives on Rangers?
BigRob.
Suffering from (hopefully)temporary brain death. I now see that Ford's incentive runs until Oct 2, not Sept 2. My mistake.
Just to warm up (my plan was to use Edmunds AutoByTell-thingy to find a dealer, as I've done in the past) I went to the dealer around the corner. I immediately mentioned I wanted to deal off of invoice, and he seemed OK with that. I mentioned the dealer holdback, and he had a problem. His claim was that "can't be counted as profit" (yea, right) and that nobody sees this money for 3 months. Still, the dealer is in line to make $600+ on my car. How do I get this reduced? I've read that salemen don't make anything on this. Has anyone succeeded in using the knowledge of dealer holdbacks to lower the final price of their purchase? The topic is addressed as information on Edmund's pages, but it never is detailed as a bargaining tool.
Would like to buy a car next week (Monday?). Wouldn't mind buying from this dealer, as long as I can get my price. Thanks in advance,
Nick
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HELP!
Friday my husband and I visited the Isuzu dealer, armed with all the necessary Edmund's Info (I'd been gearing up for this for the last month and felt quite prepared). We are interested in a Rodeo LS, pretty loaded, with 4200 miles on it. I figured the invoice to be $27,239 plus $445 Dest. charge, plus $250 Advertising fee, MINUS $1,000 cash back and $500 dealer incentive as well as $940 holdback. Okay, with my figures, the dealer cost is $25,494. Figuring in a profit and subtracting for some miles and the fact that it is a demo (of course they always insist it's NOT a used car...though the driver of this demo told me how great the vehicle handled on his camping trips...go figure!) we began our offer at $26,000 and went up to $26,200 before the manager finally came out with the invoice.
Here's where I became a bit confused, and annoyed...first the salesperson told me that THEY have to pay the holdback out of their commission (that was after he tried telling me he didn't know what the holdback was). Then the manager showed me the invoice at $27,440 (close to my figures, a good sign) BUT after the advertising fee the holdback was listed as an additional charge ($963) and after that charge was a $321 charge for "floor plans" (i.e. insurance $ to keep the cars on the lot). He got very "hot under the collar" trying to explain to me that Isuzu doesn't PAY the holdback to the dealership and that it is added into the invoice for the customer to pay. Is there any truth to this or are they "double dipping" on the holdback? We basically got up and left in disgust (I told them I'd check out my resources and get back to them). We got 3 calls from them yesterday and I went up to $26,500 over the phone, so as not to waste anymore time at the dealership. The salesperson called back and said they would do $26,500 but that I must add the dest. charge to that to equal $26,945. He insisted that the manager wouldn't budge on the holdback (but is that really a double holdback?) and that they are basically making no profit at this price.
First he said I could have until today (being the last day of the month, they'd like to get it off the lot and not pay insurance for the month). Then he called back and said the manager insisted I make my decision within three hours (before they closed) that it was a one day offer and then they'd have to "post" it. Well, I won't buy under pressure and called him back to say so, but he wasn't around when I phoned so I just left a message (just that I called) and haven't heard back.
Being the last day of the month, I need to know Car-man...Is 26,945 a good deal (I figure they'd still sell it to us unless someone else bought it) or should I venture elsewhere for a brand new one and pay a little more. I really just want this holdback issue cleared up (and while we're on the subject, is Toyota the same way or are they like the American companies?). They were so insistent on telling me that the Isuzu manufacturer handles holdbacks differently than other companies.
Please help!!
My sincere thanks (and apologies for the length)
Stacey
First of all, he came out with a piece of paper showing invoice to be around $17,300. When I told him my information showed $16,400, he said my information was incorrect.
Secondly, I came up with my offer price by taking $16,400 + $450 (destination) - $1,750 (rebate) - $1,435 (incentive) - $360 (2% holdback on MSRP) + $543 (3% profit on MSRP) + $800 (5.75% Tax) + $200 (Title). That totals $14,848 out the door before trade. I offered him $14,900.
He basically told me to blow it out my ear and there were a lot of errors in my thinking. The two biggest things were that I could not take dealer incentives off the invoice price, only the MSRP, because it is something they offer and they do not get back from the manufacturer. Secondly, he said the rebate had to be included in the taxable amount, but the incentives did not. So, the long and the short of it was that we were between $1,500 - $2,000 apart and he said "see ya later."
Car_Man, did I do my figures correctly? Is he correct that dealer incentives can only be taken off the MSRP and not the invoice?
I guess I am looking for someone to tell me I did the right thing by walking out. And if I had bought it, I would have been getting ripped off.
I think I may have a better understanding of this very odd Isuzu invoice...(A manager from a dealership thru Auto-vantage phoned me today and sounded legit...please let me know if this sounds fishy). He told me that most other manufacturers "pad" their invoice prices by 2 or 3% before sending them to the dealership (he used GM as an example explaining that there are actually 2 invoice prices...one side has the invoice, the other shows a 3% markup on the invoice...still doesn't sound right to me but I'm new at this). He then explained that Isuzu just puts one lump sum on the invoice (called holdback) instead of adding it directly to the individual options, and that this final invoice price is their price. Once they sell the vehicle, they get back their 3% only. He also said that Edmund's invoice numbers were incorrect as they did not figure this in. I've read a number of complaints on hiked up dealer invoices from many different dealerships. How are we to know what is legitimate?
He said he'd offer me the truck (Rodeo LS, leather, etc.) at $99 over invoice minus incentives and said there was a $1000 cash back as well as $1000 dealer incentive. I only read about a $500 dealer incentive. Did he make a mistake or is that new for September? In essence he's offering the truck for near $27,000 which is what the other dealership wanted for the demo. Of course, he wouldn't fax me the offer and said I should come in. I guess we'll see what pans out.
Thanks for your help,
Stacey
Your Co-Host
i probobly would be paying thousands more if not for this edmunds site. thanks edmunds and carman!!
isnt the internet great bart
We started going through the paperwork and everything seemed find. In fact, as we were doing it, she said she heard the rebate just went up to $2,500. I'm thinking - Great!
She went to talk to the Sales Manager, and when she came back she said the best they could do was $100 lower than the offer they gave me on Monday ($16,500). She said the Manager said they would only offer the $1,750 rebate - not the $1,435 dealer incentive. Plus, he said the sales rep. was wrong that the rebate had gone up.
I asked to talk to the Manager. When he came out I told him that was upset that I came here only because they said my offer of $15,000 out the door after trade in was do-able. But after I got there, the whole story changed and they were still basically at the same offer as Monday. The Sales Manager proceeded to say (and I quote), "You know what you're problem is, is that you made a dumb move when you turned down our offer on Monday."
Needless to say we got into a little bit of a shouting match and I walked out. I also will not be going back there even if they call me again to try and reconsider. Aren't there any laws against "baiting" a customer like that?
Your Co-Host
Well I just bought my Mazda 626 LX (on August 30th, under the old rebate program). The information I received here was a great help in determining timing and a good price. Thanks Car-man.
For what it's worth, here is what I paid on a straight cash purchase in the Atlanta area:
Mazda 626 LX, new (17 miles on vehicle)
Auto transmission
Leather Package
LX3 Luxury Package (sunroof, allow wheels, power drivers seat, remote keyless ignition, upgraded tires)
Ashtray (geez $28 for an ashtray? Too bad my wife smokes. She has vowed not to use it.)
Retail (MSRP with no dealer junk) $21,588
Invoice $19,326
Rebate (including local Mazda cash) -2,250
Final Price I paid 17,076
Plus 6% tax and $360 for tags etc.
There may be better deals out there, but I was very pleased with the outcome and I don't feel like I lost my shirt. By the way, I didn't haggle price at all, the dealer advertised this price and delivered.
Anyway, hope this may help by comparison. Maybe Scotarnold can print this off and bring it to his "friendly" neighborhood dealer.
Good luck to all. See you in about 3 to 4 years.
Ed
I am about to purchase a Toyota Avalon XLS and I want to know if I am getting a good price:
the options (with dealer invoice prices) are diamond white pearl paint (179), premium radio/cassette/CD player w/ 7 spkers (135), split bench seat, leather pkg w/ driver seat memory and heated front seats (1244), mud guards (48), traction control (240), power moonroof (784), Ca. emissions (54--NYS mandated). Total invoice incl. gas (6) and dest. (420), dealer holdback (475) and cash reserve (237) is $28,024. I got the dealer to go to invoice minus cash reserve, but I couldn't get him to budge on the holdback: to $27,787, minus my $100 internet coupon to $27,687. Is this a good price?
I am about to get financing at 7% (or %6.99 if I use dealer), with about $5,000 down for 48 mos.
The 7% is my credit union. My husband wants to go with the credit union, despite the dealer savings of .01%, because he feels it's member-driven and not profit-driven. What do you think?
Is it possible to answer asap? I will be talking to dealer again on Sat.
I read that there is a $500 cash back on Avalons in the Avalon disc. group and in Denver newspapers; is that only local? I haven't yet signed purchase agreement, only put $100 deposit on the car to hold it. I have to finalize tomorrow or Tues. 9/8. Will a $500 cash back offer apply to me?
Thank you for your help.
Your Co-Host
Your Co-Host
Your Co-Host
Could you please post new info on Isuzu incentives and rebates?
Andrey
Your Co-Host
I got the new incentive and rebate numbers today, and went to an Acura dealer. There is $1000 incentive and 3.9% financing option. I heard the same old story, and they showed me a fax from America Honda, where it says it is either one, but not together. Sales person was pissed off about the Internet thing, he does not like using it, he asked for the print out so that he can write back. He said there are people coming with those numbers asking for the world, the companies are not that stupid to give away everything.
Now, I certainly appreciate Edmund's effort to keep us informed. It was a real eye opener for me about how the industry works and I really love the faint look on the dealer's eyes when I explain there profit margins one by one. I would like to see the data maybe a little bit more up to date nowadays, where there is a deal popping up every day. But more important is the accuracy of the data. I drove an hour for each time going to those dealers and coming back with nothing. Not to mention the feeling of embarrassment or listening to those guys trashing Internet auto sites.
Can somebody inform us about those deals? Is it true that it is either one or the other? Wouldn't that be a rebate vs. low financing? Why is it called incentive?
Thanks for the help.
Your Co-Host
Thanks for the response. The incentive page does not say that programs may be combined, but not the opposite either. I think I have misled myself with not finding that piece of information. Also, seeing several deals in Mazda and Nissan of cash rebates and incentives, I thought it would work out.
It is not a mistake on Edmund's site,just a source of misunderstanding for consumers, as I heard that I am not the first person. Could you put a comment besides those deals that they cannot be combined? That might clarify the confusion.
Again, thanks for the help.
1. I am currently negotiating for a "99" Chrysler Sebring Convertible. The dealers have had them on the lots for almost a month, but Edmunds has NO INFORMATION WHATSOEVER on the 99 either pricing or rebate info. Re their any current rebates or incentives?
2. Also the dealer has told me that In Florida their are two additional fees added to every Chrysler Invoice. One for Advertising and another Florida fee. These fees are $210 and $240 adding $450.00 to the "INVOICE COST". Are these fees legitimate or not?
Your Co-Host
Your Co-Host
Chrysler dealers frequently add advertising fees to their deals, but I am not aware of any "special" fees for cars that are sold in Florida. This may be some sort of regional ad group charge, or something else. Don't worry about all of the little fees that are associated with your deal. Try to concentrate on the big picture, that is the total amount of money that you are going to pay to drive off into the sunset in your shiny new convertible. Shop around and go with the dealership that offers you the lowest possible drive off cost. That is as long as you feel comfortable with them. Good Luck.
Your Co-Host
Calculating with Edmunds I figure that the total Invoice is $28,872. The car has a $1000 dealer incentive and a 3% hold back.
Am I correct in going into the dealer figuring that the dealer's true cost is roughly $26,924? Is this the number that I should negotiate up from (considering that the dealers have plenty of stock and only six weeks until '99 cars arrive)?
Thanks for any help,
Charlie...
I found that the sales people that dispute the accuracy of the prices on the internet, often admit they have never even seen these sites. Also, if these prices are so off, why do they match all the other web-sites and independent printed material/magazines you can buy in a book store?
Not to mention, why is just the INVOICE price is off, but not the MSRP??? Furthermore, wouldn't some kind of law suite arise out of all these printed in accuracies?
Of course when you mention that THEIR dealership was spoaken of so highly on a post in Edmunds - the double speak begins to blather out.
It's also amazing how quickley they are willing to show you that their invoice pirce matches your figures (during clearence) - yet 2 months before they swear their invoice price was much higher.