Rebates, Incentives, APRs - Questions & Comments

jeffb · April 1999

I can't find any CURRENT and factual information on incentives for the Mercury Mountaineer. Has the 2.9% financing been extended past April 1, 1999? Each dealer seems to tell me something different. Help!!!!

Holliwood · April 1999

Has anyone heard of any incentives or rebate on Toyota Tacomas? I would prefer a Tacoma over most other trucks, but Ford's F-150 with incentives is looking more and more attractive. Though, I don't want a full size truck the F-150 may cost about $1200 more than a Tacoma 4X4 ext. cab. Man, Toyotas sure are high! It makes no sense that such a small truck is even close price-wise to a full-size truck. Heck, a loaded Tacoma limited is only a few dollars less than most full size trucks! Come on toyota give me a rebate I can't refuse or Ford will add another notch in their sales belt!

CarMan@Edmunds · April 1999

Jeffb, this information should be available on the Edmund's Site sometime this week. In the meantime I will look into the current Mercury Mountaineer incentives for you and let you know what I find out in this topic tomorrow. I believe that I read that this program was continued, but I will check it out just to be positive. Talk to you then.

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CarMan@Edmunds · April 1999

I'm back with the information that you are looking for as promised, Jeffb. You can presently finance a 1999 Mercury Mountaineer through Ford Motor Credit at .9% for up to 36 months, 3.9% for 37 to 48 months, and 5.9% for 49 to 60 months. There is also $500 Dealer Cash available on V8 Mountaineers. I hope that this answers your question.

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CarMan@Edmunds · April 1999

Holliwood, I believe that Toyota currently has a volume bonus program on the Tacoma that provides $1,000 on all models until dealerships sell a certain number and then the program provides $1,500 per unit.

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juls1 · April 1999

I ordered a Dodge Intrepid last month and I should have it in about two-four weeks. Dodge has a $1,000 rebate on the Intrepid that came out 4/8/99 on vehicles purchased by 7/31/99. I understand that I am entitled to that rebate since I will be purchasing the car prior to 7/31 even though I ordered it prior to the rebate being announced?

ladyblue · April 1999

juls:

Yup, you are actually purchasing the car the day you sign the final papers. If the rebate is in effect on that date, you're entitled to it.

CarMan@Edmunds · April 1999

Juls1, ladyblue is right. You you will be eligible for any incentives that are in effect the day that your vehicle is actually delivered.

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lee25 · May 1999

What is the current (May '99) dealer incentives for :
'99 Trooper Perf. Package; '99 Trooper S w/ automatic trans.?
The site lists the incentive through 4/30. Will this change?
Regards,
Lee

CarMan@Edmunds · May 1999

Lee, Isuzu's most recent incentives program just ended this weekend. Last month they had between $1,200 and $1,700 Dealer Cash on the Trooper and I suspect that their incentives will be very similar to this amount in May. I have not seen their new information yet, but if you check back with me later on this week I should have some new information for you. Thanks.

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hark · May 1999

Since tax is calculated before rebates, where does that extra tax money go. Is it really to the state? If so, it seems an inefficient way to provide the discount, since 10% (here in CA) of the rebate is lost to the government. Why wouldn't the sellers just discount prices by the rebate amount? Its not like a normal $3 rebate on batteries where the company counts on lots of people not bothering to send it in.

Hark

CarMan@Edmunds · May 1999

Hark, tax laws vary from state to state. So the way that your state calculates taxes can be different from the way another state does. Where I live, tax is charged on consumer cash, but not on dealer cash incentives. I often wonder myself why manufacturers don't just do a better job at pricing their vehicles instead of giving them a high price and providing incentives on them. I suppose that they are hopeful that they will not need any incentives, but for many manufacturers this is extremely unrealistic. Also, it is a lot easier for them to give their car or truck a high price and discount it later than it is for them to give it too low a price and then try to increase it, or worse from their prospective lose money.

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hark · May 1999

I think that is how it is here too. So why have consumer cash at all, why not just have dealer cash. It seems like the only real difference is that you pay taxes on one and not on the other. It's not a huge dollar amount in most cases (at most a few hundred), but I can't see any advantages to it at all. I can't believe the car makers are just throwing money away. They'd get some combination of higher profits and sales by removing this friction in the transaction.

Does the customer cash vs dealer cash thing affect the taxes paid by the dealer/maker in some other way behind the scenes(beyond what shows up on your sales form)?

Does anyone know if the stuff entered as "fees paid to government officials" must be exactly correct? (you'd think so, but ...)

Thanks,
Hark

joecaro · May 1999

When I bought my 4runner over a weekend the dealer determined the DMV fees (in California they are pretty high) and of course added to the contract. Just to double check their numbers I called DMV on Monday and they gave me a figure almost exactly the same. About two weeks later I got a check for $68 back from the dealer, said they had overcharged on the DMV. Gotta give them points for integrity.

picante · May 1999

With Infiniti pushing the 2000 I30, is there any new word on incentives for the 1999 I30? I believe current Edmund's info shows an incentive for the East, but I wondered if the amount was changed or if the entire country was now included (I'm in Oregon).

Any other advice or comments on 1999 I30's are welcome, too.

-- Raoul

CarMan@Edmunds · May 1999

Hark, the reason why manufacturers use both types of cash incentives is because they use Consumer Cash when they want the public to know about their incentive and the Dealer Cash when they want to keep the discount a secret. Some manufacturers, such as General Motors or Nissan, frequently use Consumer Cash because they feel as though they need consumers to know about their discounts in order to help sell vehicles. In turn they issue Consumer Cash incentives and advertise them on television and in newspapers. On the other end of the spectrum are luxury dealers, like BMW and Lexus. They occasionally need cash incentives to help them move vehicles in the volumes that they desire, but do not want the public to know about the cash for various reasons. One major reason is that they fear that public knowledge of cash incentives will damage the brand equity that they have worked so hard to build.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 1999

Joecaro, that is impressive. It goes to show that despite the widespread distrust of dealerships, there are still some good apples out there.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 1999

Raoul:

Just because the incentives that we post here at Edmund's indicate a specific region it does not mean that there are not incentives on that particular vehicle in other parts of the country. It would be next to impossible for us to track and update the incentives for every area of the country in a timely manner, so we often list one region's incentives as a representative sample. Chances are that the Infiniti East incentives are very similar to the ones available where you live.

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hark · May 1999

Car Man:
Thanks for your answers. I'm sorry to keep on this topic, but it still isn't clear to me. I can certainly understand the use of publicized and non-publicized incentives. What isn't clear to me is why they couldn't just have publicized and non-publicized dealer cash, deciding which to use depending on their needs for the current incentive. What is the advantage of customer cash over a publicized dealer cash, i.e. what justifies the extra loss in taxes.

Hypothesis question. Does the manufacturer get to deduct the rebate on its taxes? It seems plausible, but does anyone here know for sure?

CarMan@Edmunds · May 1999

Hark, I see your point. Some manufacturers, like Cadillac, do advertise their dealer cash from time to time. Unfortunately, most manufacturers do not operate this way and I don't expect there to be any major changes to the current incentives system any time in the near future.

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rpaige · May 1999

From my recent experience, I have concluded that individual dealerships have the power to advertise otherwise unadvertised dealer incentives.

Specifically in the case of current DaimlerChrysler customer rebates of $1,000 and dealer incentives of $700, a few Washington, DC-area dealers are advertising the total as rebates available to the customer. Toss that in the current mixed salad.

Now, add in the current trend of auto manufacturers--particularly domestic manufacturers--becoming more involved in the dealership operations, which has the effect (or so some dealers complain) of setting a less flexible price structure, straight from the manufacturer. (This seems good for consumers overall.)

Finally, combine the growing trend of one-price, no haggle auto sales, as pioneered by Saturn and adopted by CarMax, as well as by several independent dealerships, and you are looking at the potential for a very different future of car sales techniques.

degruen · May 1999

Are there recent manufacturer incentives to the Olds dealers. Local dealer is offering $99 below invoice on all 99 GM automobiles. Consumer rebates are on top of this offer. Sounds like a good starting point to me. What might be behind this offer and is there further room to negotiate?

CarMan@Edmunds · May 1999

Degruen:

Other than the $1,000 consumer cash incentive that you are already aware of, the only additional incentive on the Oldsmobile Silhouette is a dealership volume bonus program that can provide up to $700 per vehicle if the dealership reaches certain sales goals. Perhaps the dealership hopes to attain the top level of this stair-step program by selling vehicles at very low prices.

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farbuck · June 1999

Is anyone aware whether Edmunds is correct regarding a 2% MSRP holdback on Audi A4? If so, any suggestions on how I can effectively use this information?

Thanks,

bizzrian · June 1999

Carman, is the $9000 dealer incentive on a 99 Mazda Millenia S for real? How about in DE? If so can I truly use this as a bargaining tool? Combined with the $3000 factory rebate this is $12,000 total! If I throw in the holdback savings, the target price you suggest I bid is around $17,000 I think. You know the saying, if it's too good to be true...I
Also, I know that negotiating deals for popular cars is harder, but your site suggests hardballing for cars that are being "pushed" because they are obviously not that popular. The Millenia S fits that description. Please help me!

Thanks

CarMan@Edmunds · June 1999

Farbuck, technically Audi does not have any dealer holdback on their vehicles. I think that this is somewhat in response to the posting of holdbacks on the internet. They do have other dealer reserves that dealerships may earn that essentially serve the same purpose. On a vehicle like the A4, this reserve probably amounts to around $1,000 or so. Although this adds profit to the deal, it is not considered a true dealer holdback.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 1999

Bizzrian, I answered your question in the other topic that you started. Please click here to see my answer: Smart Shoppers Topic #1404.

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warlock · June 1999

I have a question based on information listed in
Edmunds Subsidized Lease listing. The listing
shows GM subsidizing 1999 Bonneville SE's through
30 June 1999. I have been all over all of the GM
web sites and can't verify the validity of this
program. What is the best way to confirm the
existence of this program? I would like to have
confirmation prior to calling a dealer.

scott159 · June 1999

The program exists -- I am trying to get a lease under it right now. It's not heavily advertised and appears to be limited to the "Northeast," whatever that means. However, the print ads show that the $284 a month is for a 48 month lease, not the 36 shown in Edmunds. Telling the dealer about the program worked fine for me. The problem is that my dealer is trying to charge a $450 acquisition fee plus a processing fee. Nothing is listed in the print ad. If you moved forward with a lease, did you (or anyone else) run into this?

CarMan@Edmunds · June 1999

Scott, I believe that General Motors Acceptance Corp. has a $400 acquisition fee on all of its leases. If the dealership is running your lease through them then he is overcharging you for it. The processing fee is probably some sort of charge that is levied by the dealership and not by the bank that you are leasing through.

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willit · July 1999

I am looking for info on whether the Nissan rebates scheduled to end 6/30 per this site are likely to be extended and if so, when the info might be available. I'd like to buy a car - maybe a Maxima - this week-end. Thanks.

jhaspel · July 1999

Over in the Vans conference, someone from Arkansas said he had seen a Ford Windstar commercial that began running on 6/2/99 for .9% financing AND $1000 rebate. He says he did indeed receive both when he bought his Windstar. Another poster says he's had three dealers say that the deal is EITHER/OR. I'm in Louisiana, which I think is the same region, and I would swear I saw the same commercial. I've spoken to two dealers. One confirmed and asked how I knew about it. The other insisted it was EITHER/OR. Now I'm doubting my own memory. Was the commercial just wishful thinking? Did the first dealer misunderstand me? Can anyone help clear this up?

CarMan@Edmunds · July 1999

Willit, many manufacturers' have extended their current incentives programs through the holiday weekend. I have a feeling that this is probably what Nissan is going to do with theirs.

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CarMan@Edmunds · July 1999

Ford is running a program in certain areas of the country that allows consumers to combine low rate financing and cash incentives on certain models. This may be the case with the Windstar that was purchased in Arkansas. I suggest that you pay a visit to the dealer who told you that you could do so if you are interested in purchasing one.

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2baneon · July 1999

Carman, The current Incentices for the 1999 Dodge Neon expire this date. My wife and I are looking to buy this weekend, any word on any new incentives for the 1999 or 2000 models??? Thanks...

CarMan@Edmunds · July 1999

2baneon, Chrysler is not expected to release their new incentives program until sometime tomorrow. If you check back with me later on in the week I will let you know what is going on with the Neon.

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russ113 · July 1999

Car_man:

I noticed on the Holdback page here on Edmunds that Mitsubishi has a 2% holdback from MSRP. However, it also states that Mitsu allows the dealer to charge the customer for the holdback. How does that work? Here is how I calculated cost on the vehicle:

Invoice $17,991
Holdback -$400
Shipping +$435

Cost $18,026 before any rebates/incentive)

Should I be calculating this differently? Also, does Mitsubishi hit customers for an advertising fee?

Thanks for your help!

CarMan@Edmunds · July 1999

To be honest with you, russ113. I really am not very impressed with the holdback page here at Edmund's. I have found that the information that it contains is off the mark in many instances. According to everything that I have heard Mitsubishi has a dealer holdback of 2% of the vehicle's MSRP without options. Don't ever let dealerships tack on a holdback charge to the price of your new car or truck. The holdback should already be included in the price of your vehicle. Thus if you are charged for it by the dealership you are essentially paying it twice. Mitsubishi dealerships do usually have to pay a regional advertising fee on their vehicles. I believe that this fee is based upon a percentage of the vehicle's price, but I don't know the exact formula. I've been told that this fee usually amounts to somewhere in the neighborhood of $450 per unit. If you subtract the holdback and any relevant incentives from a vehicle's invoice price (including destination) you should arrive at an approximate dealer cost for it. So, it looks as though you are on the right track.

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russ113 · July 1999

Thanks for the info on Mitsubishi. The $450 advertising fee sounds steep. Can you or anyone else confirm this? I assume that I have to pay the advertising fee, right?

Also, I posted to you on another board about the rebate/incentive on the 99 Galant ES V6 but can't find it now (so excuse the repeat). I was told that the Galant had a $2500 rebate in Arizona. Can you confirm this or know where I can find out? One dealer tells me it is now $2000, another $1250 and Mitsubishi (the 800 #) says the rebate expired last month. This info is pretty critical to my negotiating. Any info would be great!

Thanks!

CarMan@Edmunds · July 1999

Russ113:

Like I have said in the past, try not to concern yourself with all of the little fees that dealerships charge you. Instead concentrate on the big picture, which is the total amount of money that it is going to cost you to drive off in the Mitsubishi that you want. I suggest that you shop around at a couple of dealerships and go with the one that gives you the lowest out-the-door price, that is assuming that you feel comfortable with them.

It is true that Mitsubishi's incentive program expired last month. However, the incentives on their vehicles didn't just disappear. For the most part, all of the models that had cash on them last month should have some sort of cash on them now. We should have the new Mitsubishi incentives available on the Edmund's site sometime next week. I suggest that you check back then to find out the exact incentives on the vehicle that you are interested in.

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Walnorm · July 1999

Do you know what improvements Ford is making on its 2000 model Ford F-150 XLT Supercab 4WD pickups? or know where I can find them? Thank you for your help.

CarMan@Edmunds · July 1999

Walnorm, I suggest that you pay a visit to the Town Hall Pickups Conference. I have a feeling that you will be much more likely to get an answer to your question there. Please click here to go there: Edmund's Pickups Conference.

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kmidas · August 1999

An Isuzu dealer in Chicago has been advertising an Oasis (7-passenger) for months now at $20,774. The List for this car is $23,680 and invoice is $21,548.

I've seen a $1000 rebate or incentive listed for the Isuzu Oasis but I don't see it on Edmund's list. Are there other unpublished rebates for this car? How is the dealer able to advertise such a low price? (there's no stock number)

bnormann · August 1999

Back when they were relatively new topics, they each had a different focus. I guess after a while they have converged.

I'll check it out.

Thanks, Bruce.

your co-host

CarMan@Edmunds · August 1999

You must have read my mind, Merg. I was just thinking about consolidating all of the various incentives topics into one. You have given me the little push necessary to do so. Hold on to your hat, I am off to do some freezing and linking.

Car_man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Host

CarMan@Edmunds · August 1999

I have begun to consolidate the various incentives topics. Please check out frozen topic #111 for past posts on this subject. Click here to go there: Topic #111 "Dealer Incentives".

Car_man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Host

CarMan@Edmunds · August 1999

Here is another related topic that I have frozen: Topic # 621 "Edmund's Incentives and Rebates Data".

Car_man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Host

jhughes · August 1999

I will soon travel to Texas to assist my mother in purchasing a car. She likes Buick LeSabre and Ford Crown Victoria. Is the factory offering any incentives directly to the dealer? Is there a web site where factory to dealer incentives are posted? I Chev offering any customer loyalty discounts?

CarMan@Edmunds · August 1999

Jhughes, you can find out all of the factory to dealer incentives right here at Edmund's. Please click here to visit out incentives page: Edmund's Currant Incentives Page.

Car_man
Smart Shoppers / FWI Host

jhughes · August 1999

I reviewed the Edmund's incentive page. I understood this page provided the factory to purchaser incentives. I did not see any factory to dealer incentives. I also did not see any specific customer loyalty incentives. Is this information available, or am I blind?

Rebates, Incentives, APRs - Questions & Comments

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