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Comments
Don't you think they will just keep adding more and more lease incentives if there starts to be a slowdown?
Jason
P.S. I don't know about a global slowdown, but this month has certainly been pretty molassic (word invention? lol).
Jason
I am not picking on the Taurus in particular, it just offers a larger sample size to look at.
available by fax...email me.
Im looking to lease a Passat very soon. I went in today to look at a VW Passat GLS sedan. This is the deal I came up with after some negotiating. I went with a 10k mile lease because thats all Im going to need. I would like to know if the following offer that I got is a "good" deal:
2001 VW Passat GLS
Leather package
Luxury package
Monsoon sound sytem
Automatic
1500$ down (includes first payment)
39 month lease
10K miles per year
299$ monthly payments (does not include tax)
Please let me know how good of a deal this is. I need to make a decision fairly quickly.
Thanks very much in advance,
David
one here that is going to have the pleasure of
driving your Passat...as well, there is no one here that is going to write the check that makes your
lease payment...The important thing is whether
YOU are happy and comfortable; not anyone here...
thanks for the response. The only reason i asked about this potential lease deal is to get some opinions from you guys if i was getting a fair/good deal compared to whats going around in other parts of the country.
david
First of all, I wouldn't feel rushed.
Second, have you shopped around for a better deal? Here's a mind-boggling stat--only 38% of those leasing talked to more than one dealership in search of the best terms.
Third, you say that you negotiated--what exactly did you negotiate? I can think of three things to watch for:
1) The Price--at this point in the model year, your "price" for the vehicle should be very near to invoice. Don't let the dealer convince you that leasing and buying are different in this respect. The street value of the car should provide the basis for the lease arrangement.
2) The Residual--in an attempt to slice you both ways, they may be utilizing an extremely low residual (precisely because the car is "older"), which means that you will be paying for a lot of depreciation (couple that with a lease based on MSRP and you're really screwed!).
3) The Fees--question all fees. If you shop around, you may find that certain dealers add in fees--now how could that be?
I am sure that other people can chime in with their current lease stats--but the best way for you to know if your numbers are good is to walk them to at least two other dealers. Good luck!
Thanks for ur response. I have shopped around other dealers for similarly priced cars than the Passat. I went to Nissan to look at the Maxima. The Maxima GLE and Passat I want have about the same MSRP.
Beleive me, when I was in VW, the salesperson kept asking me "what do u want ur monthly payments to be", I responded by saying "monthly payments are not my main concern, I could make the monthly payments 10$ if I wanted to, but I would have to put down 10,000$"
The basic details I got from VW is that the residual on the Passat would be around 57-59% for 39months lease. Compared to Maxima GLE that retails at around 26.5K$ like the Passat I want, Nissan wanted 1000$ (includes 1st payment , fees, tag, ect..) for 36months was 450$ a month. Now the Passat which is around the same retail price as the Maxima GLE, VW was asking 1500$ down (includes 1st payment, tag, ect..) 39months, 299$ a month. Neither of the monthly prices included taxes. I think I would be getting the Passat at around 1000$ under invoice according to my calculations.
From the looks of it, I think Im getting a decent deal with VW. Im going to go into the dealership today and try to work on the price a bit more, but if this deal stands, according to the facts mentioned above, is it a "good" deal?
david
For you to compare lease deals across models doesn't really help you to get a better deal on either one. If you have decided on the Passat, take that deal to two other VW dealers and ask them if they can do better.
And, in order to compare efficiently, you should have all of the elements of the lease written down. You say that you "think you'd be getting the Passat at around a $1000 under invoice according to your calculations"--sounds dangerous! If they haven't given you a sheet of paper with that amount as the price (BEFORE subtracting your cap reduction, etc.) than you'll want to confirm this. Make sure that the dealers you talk to are giving you all of the relevant information, Price, Residual, Money Factor (interest rate), Fees, etc. You'll want to double check everything on a printed up contract before you sign--makes sure that everything checks out!
Leasing is very complicated--the federal government has stepped in multiple times in the last few years to protect consumers against a variety of confusing practices that they considered scams. In general, leasing is an expensive way to "save" money. I trust that you've already decided against buying for some solid reasons--the key now is to make sure that you get the best lease possible...
Thanks for ur response. I have shopped around other dealers for similarly priced cars than the Passat. I went to Nissan to look at the Maxima. The Maxima GLE and Passat I want have about the same MSRP.
Beleive me, when I was in VW, the salesperson kept asking me "what do u want ur monthly payments to be", I responded by saying "monthly payments are not my main concern, I could make the monthly payments 10$ if I wanted to, but I would have to put down 10,000$"
The basic details I got from VW is that the residual on the Passat would be around 57-59% for 39months lease. Compared to Maxima GLE that retails at around 26.5K$ like the Passat I want, Nissan wanted 1000$ (includes 1st payment , fees, tag, ect..) for 36months was 450$ a month. Now the Passat which is around the same retail price as the Maxima GLE, VW was asking 1500$ down (includes 1st payment, tag, ect..) 39months, 299$ a month. Neither of the monthly prices included taxes. I think I would be getting the Passat at around 1000$ under invoice according to my calculations.
From the looks of it, I think Im getting a decent deal with VW. Im going to go into the dealership today and try to work on the price a bit more, but if this deal stands, according to the facts mentioned above, is it a "good" deal?
david
I went to shop around my Passat lease offer to a couple other VW dealers. Both dealers said they couldnt even come close to the lease deal the first dealership offered me. One of the salesman actually told me "to be honest with you, if i was you and u can get that lease deal for the Passat from this other VW dealership, i wouldnt even think twice about it". He actually said he didnt understand how they could give me such a deal and still make money.
Ive also done a lot of research using the Lease Wizard program. This sounds like a great deal, Im probably going to go into the VW dealer to sign the papers.
Ill keep u guys updated.
David
to research and compare this deal until you don't
need a car, but a walker...
Once again...you are the one that this deal has to please...not anyone here...if you are comfortable with the numbers and the people ...get
the car and go home, and don't look over your shoulder.
I have posted here, several times, that this whole
process can really be over done. If you like the car, and it is within your budget; that is all that
matters...I am not saying that anyone should pay
more than they believe to be a fair price, but if
YOU feel that it is; be done with it.
The fact that the other VW dealers said they couldnt match that deal or do better reinforces that belief.
299 a month lease for 3 years with 1500 down on a 25K car is amazingly low.
My bet is that when you post next after having gone to that dealer is that they gave you a low ball number so you would have to come back and then they will tell you how they "forgot" something.
Thanks for your input,
david
I also decided to add the Monsoon system to the Passat along with some other accessories.
Here is the official offer that I signed today and will finalize on monday:
2001 Passat GLS
Leather
Luxury Package
Automatic
Monsoon Stereo
MSRP: 26,475$
Cash Down: $1500 (includes 1st payment)
Trade-in: $2000
Total Cap reduction: $3500
38months/ 259$ per month
Im pretty happy with this deal, and I cant wait to pick up the car next week.
David
The Invoice price on the car you are leasing is about $24,000. Based on posts on this and other forums, 2001 Passats are regularly being sold for a few hundred $ over this invoice price. But in your case, your dealer sold you a Passat for full MSRP, for $2500 over invoice. As a result, your lease payments will reflect another $2000 + interest of "artificial depreciation." Any lease based on MSRP, especially at this time of the year--and at this time in the Passat model year--is a bad deal. Your trade-in added another layer of icing to their cake.
I assume you came to this forum asking for good advice. If you only came here for blind emotional support--that's another matter, and another forum, altogether. Of course, you can still enjoy your new car, and, hopefully, in another 38 months you will negotiate a better deal...
[Translation: "Don't worry about whether or not your deal is financially sound--if it FEELS right to you, than that is all that matters..."]
After the poster has made a bad deal, afk_x sez: "Congrats on a nice car and an amazingly low lease payment."
[Translation: "$249/month for a Passat? Sounds fantastic! Don't bother me with any of the other deal points because that low monthly payment sounds so good I don't want to hear anything else..."]
Any deal can be made to sound good if you don't examine it too closely. Here are two different ways to get great monthly lease payments on a Passat:
1)Put $10,000 down and lease for 60 months. OR
2)negotiate a financially sound deal.
Which would you prefer?
Leasing is confusing as hell--and it's a poor financial move for most people. But don't take my word for it, read most any half-way decent consumer advice source. Unless you can write-off the cost of a lease as a business expense, leasing amounts to a "grand financial illusion."
I was not sold the car at MSRP, I was just quoting the MSRP to let you guys know how much the car was worth. I use "LeaseWizard" to help me out, and according to that program there is no way I could have gotten the deal I got if they were selling me the car at MSRP. Anyhow, I asked them to give me the "negotiated price" that they are selling me the Passat for and the money factor, before I sign the official lease deal. I wont sign anything official until I have those 2 numbers. Using "LeaseWizard", I figured that they have to be selling me the car at around invoice, or else the numbers wouldnt add up to 259 per month with 3500 down. I will know on Monday.
Thanks guys,
david
Hopefully you're getting a good deal
Thanks
david
With a payment of 249 including tax on a 39 month lease with 3500 down the car is obviously being sold close to invoice with a low money factor and high residual. Why did you think I didn't consider these kind of details? Do you think you have a monopoly on thinking?
My concern would only be who the lease is through and their provisions for wear and tear.
Every checklist you see on "Is Leasing Right For You?" begins with two telltale questions:
1) "Do you like to have a new car every few years?"
2) "Do you like the benefits of an expensive car without the expensive monthly payments?"
If you answer "yes" to both of these questions, you are entertaining a devil's bargain. Leasing is a temptation straight from the pit of hell.
And, anyone who disagrees with me is speaking for SATAN himself
I apologize for any unintended overstatements...
david
ps: still havent got the numbers on the lease from the VW dealer (negotiated price, residual and money factor), I will post when I get them.
Would you believe that sometimes it is actually LESS money to lease and then buy at the end than it is to conventionally finance from the beginning?
Sound to good to be true? It isn't. When you lease you pay for the first half. (assuming a 50% residual) Then you can buy the rest at the end. If you have a low bank fee in a lease with an extremely low lease factor this can be the case. ESPECIALLY when you take into account the time value of money, or the opportunity cost of your down payment on a purchase.
People who say leasing is bad do not understand how it works. Leasing has a huge number of advantages over purchasing. Purchasing has only one over leasing, which is under MOST circumstances you would have saved money by buying via conventional financing over leasing vs purchasing.
As far as paying taxes and insuring a car you dont own, this is laughable. Until you have the pink slip you don't own anything. Also comparing renting a house to leasing a car is completely wrong. 99.9% of cars will depriciate. Houses will usually hold their value.
I will no longer post off topic.
That is all.
however; as I've said this is an individual question, and you have really responded to most of
the negative stuff...you have your own reasons for doing what you are doing which is all that really matters.
Having said that...I do have one very serious concern...The only Volkswagen Credit *subvented*
programs in place right now deal with 5 Speed
Transmission cars. And it is across the board, New
Jettas, Passats(except 4Mo), Beetles and Golfs.
The Residual on a 39 Month (Special Time frame along with 42Months)is 55% with a Factor of 0.00245. This is Based on 15,000 Miles and an
Acquisition Fee of $490.
This is not available for Tiptronic Passats, and I
believe that you are looking at a Tip...So be
CAUTIOUS...
The numerous fees and poor interest rates in most every lease makes serial leasing more expensive than financing a car over five years at 8% (Especially if you keep a car for another year or two w/o payments!). After three years of buying a car, you can also "simply walk away"--but you will be able to apply your thousands of $$$ of accumulated equity to your next purchase.
Better yet, instead of leasing a car in the $30-40K range as many do, smart people can scale back a bit and finance a $20K car over perhaps four years. Why would anyone want to let $15,000 drain out of their pocket over three years--and then sign up for another round and another and another...
Buying a home and buying a car are considered smart; renting a home and leasing a car are not considered smart. Cars DO depreciate. But that's the point--they depreciate the most in their first few years--which means that the lessee gets to pay for ALL of this steep depreciation while reaping NONE of the benefits of ownership.
To bring it around to the topic at hand: Everyone interested in leasing a Passat should take another look at buying a Passat over five or even six years. If the payments are still too high, they should consider buying a less expensive auto.
Thanks,
david
Leasing can be a tricky minefield to negotiate. Here are some groups of people that leasing may be preferable to:
1. Mr. KeepupwiththeJoneses - The person who has to keep up with the latest and greatest in everything. This person, regardless of their choice of financing or leasing, will want to get a new car in 3 or 4 years, so leasing may be a better way to go, especially if they don't have a lot of money to put down.
2. Mr. NegativeEquity - Leasing is a much easier format to "hide" negative equity without the customer having to pay a large amount out-of-pocket.
3. Mr. Only"OK"Credit - If your credit is in the middle ranges, you may have to pay large interest charges to finance a car. However, you may be able to qualify for a lease, and then you're paying the same lease rates as Bill Gates would pay.
Mamamia, the only advice I'd like to give you is that you should re-think putting as much money up-front as you are doing. One of the major reasons to put money up-front (besides lower payments) is to keep yourself in a positive equity situation. In a lease, GAP insurance is standard, so in the event of your car being totalled, you just walk away. Think about it.
Jason
P.S. I'm in a Demo now, which is probably the Ultimate lease situation, and the majority of the salesman here who own cars are in leases, so I don't think leasing is quite up to the "infernal" level. Its just a more complex equation.
P.P.S. I believe VW Credit just extended the lease rates to all non-4-motion Passats.
From what I understand all leases through VW include gap insurance. This is good. I would have put down only 1500$ for the lease and paid the 300$ a month, but I had a trade-in that was falling apart and was losing value, so I decided to throw it in the deal to lower the payments. If I didnt have this trade-in, I wouldnt have put down more than the 1500$ that was demanded for the special lease offer. I agree, one should not put down too much cash on a lease.
Im going down to sign the papers tommorow and pick up the car, Im pretty happy. Im going to be riding a 26K$ for 259$ a month...according to most people I know, they all told me I got a "good" deal. Anyways, I love this car and Im just glad I will be able to enjoy it for the next few years. BTW, I got VW to throw in a Passat car cover for free (retail cost is around 220$)
david
Enjoy your car!
If you really don't want to put that money down, just have them use your trade as your downpayment and keep ALL of your money in your pocket. I've even cut people checks for their car when they didn't want to put money down. {shrug} Its up to you.
Jason
I want to add an in-dash cd player to my Passat. Tho Ive heard that adding aftermarket stereo components to the Passat, especially head-units, can be quite a pain in the butt especially if you have the Monsoon system. Can anyone recommend an in-dash cd player that will fit and look well in the Passat? By the way, my Passat will have the Monsoon system.
Thanks
david
Despite the fact that the purchase vs. lease debate that has been happening in the last several posts in this discussion is slightly off topic, I thought that I would throw in my two cents. This argument is not nearly as black or white as everyone makes it out to be. The answer to which is better, leasing or purchasing, is very simple... it all depends upon the deal and your personal driving habits.
Over the past several years, many banks offered consumers relatively high residual values on many of the vehicles that they were leasing. By taking advantage of these mistakenly high residuals consumers were able to get great deals on leases and save themselves a great deal of month in the process, provided that they were going to get a new car or truck every two or three years any how. Unfortunately, by setting their residual values too high these banks were setting themselves up for a big fall. When the vehicles eventually began to come back off-lease they were not worth nearly what the banks had estimated that they would be and these financial institutions took huge losses. To illustrate, last quarter DaimlerChrysler had to take a $500 million charge against its earnings to cover Chrysler Financial's residual value exposure.
It seems as though most banks have now realized that they were setting their residual values at unrealistically high levels and have lowered their residuals across the board. These lower residuals have on average made leasing vehicles more expensive. Still, there are bargains out there is you know where to look.
There are two factors that would make leasing a vehicle more attractive than actually paying cash for it. They are if the vehicle has an unrealistically high residual value or if a manufacturers' captive finance company is offering lease money factor support (low interest rates on leases), but the automaker is not providing equivalent support in the form of cash or special finance rates.
Another seldom thought of advantage to leasing is that, if you are in a serious accident and you have your vehicle repaired properly your bank can not hit you up for diminished value. You can just walk away from it squeaky clean at lease-end. Conversely, if you actually owned this vehicle and had to sell it on your own you would take a substantial hit by disclosing that it was in a major accident.
If a car or truck's residual values are set properly and one was going to finance a new vehicle every couple of years, they would come out dead even if they leased their vehicle and just turned it in at lease-end or if they bought it and sold it after a couple of years.
Car_Man
Host Smart Shoppers / FWI Message Boards
Tommorow is the day I will drive my car off the lot and sign the official lease papers. But, I could still decline the offer if I dont like the
actual selling price of the vehicle when I see the paper work. If I think its too high, I might try to throw in a late negotiation
Ill post all the official figures tommorow (actual selling price, money factor, residual). Thanks for all your posts, this has been great.
Ill be here tommorow,
david
Topic is a funny word isn't it?
afk_x "Lease vs Purchase" Jan 22, 2001 10:06pm
will update Residual & factors later...
Found the rest of the post on leasing very informative...Thanks
MSRP was: 26,475$
I got the car for: 24,300$
Money factor: .0026
Im very happy with this deal. I do have one technical question. When Im in the car and its running, how do I turn on my interior instrument lights (radio, ac controls, ect..) without having to turn on the headlights outside? I tried everything, is it even possible?
Thanks,
David