Real-World Trade-In Values

zueslewis · May 2003

you've got Terry, Bill, Rich and I right here on Edmunds for free, although if we ever meet, you'd owe us lunch and a beer for providing current market info.....

Hankr · May 2003

I have seen your postings on several boards, as well as others you mentioned who are in the business. All your insights are both entertaining and valuable. Again, I thank you all.

Now, If I may ask... has your participation here yielded additional business for you? Or do you simply enjoy the back-and-forth and learning?

I don't ask this with any negative undercurrent. I think it is fine if your forthright participation on these boards has gotten you prospects and sales. None of you (that I have seen) have blatantly solicited business.

But I am curious. If I knew what you sold, and where, and were in the market, I'd definitely seek you (and others) out for my purchase.

zueslewis · May 2003

the "lemon law" aspect of what I do any additional business, at least as far as I know. The new case takers at the lawfirm I consult for haven't mentioned any referrals.

I've personally benefitted since talking with one lady about her Jeep Cherokee purchase in Maintenance and repair landed me a writing position with Primedia Publications (just beginning to write, only one article completed) and I've helped with product development on several electrical/computer programs that deal with automotive issues - I get paid for both gigs.

I'm not in the car business, just for info - not anymore anyway.

pgill · May 2003

Terry -

I need a private sale price for a 1998 Toyota Camry LE. It's a 4 cylinder, auto, green exterior, beige interior, 60k miles, clean inside and out, couple of door dings. Not sure exact options it has (bought it secondhand) but has moonroof and power everything. It's located in NJ.

Thank you.

dangnabbit · May 2003

Terry,

Thanks a lot for your advice regarding the Continentals. I'll let you know how things turn out.

Adnan

paolenz · May 2003

bought them from an auction house? I am planning to buy a '00 528i BMW sport package cosmos black with tan interior (my perfect combo)with 37K CPO. Asking price was 35K whittled it down to 30.3K + TTL. It is meticulously maintained except for a 2 very minor scratches. NO DINGS or DENTS. Minor vibrations and the driver side weather molding needs to be replaced. Clean carfax. I am worried that this car have seen snow and salt. Is it a good deal or should I offer less. Car was bought by a San Francisco dealership.

kyfdx · May 2003

Not sure what CPO cars generally go for, but a used car dealer friend of mine just bought a 2000 528IA with premium/leather/heated seats and moonroof. 40K miles... at auction.. for $24K.
This was in Ohio.

Just to give you some idea of profit margins. Good luck.

regards,
kyfdx

rroyce10 · May 2003

..... Aaah, hate to tell ya this, but look over your right shoulder at the last 12,000+ posts .. you kinda sound just like Custard at Big horn ~~ " wheres those Indians ... " .l.o.l.

Terry.

rroyce10 · May 2003

.... Ok finally .. we have a base Caravan with 40k, we a have a V6, it's a Semi bad color and we have some scratches .. it just sounds like any regular base .. so trade side, you should be seeing the high $5's, low $6's ...

Terry.

rroyce10 · May 2003

...... Let's see here .. we have a 98 LE with 60k, we have a slider and I'm sure power windows, locks, cruise, seat, miles aren't bad for the year .. Sooo, if the tires are deep and the service and the history is ok, then $8,5ish should do it ..

Terry.

dagpotter · May 2003

Thanks. Actually better then what I thought. I have seen the color on lots of Chrysler prodcuts - Durango's, Intrepids, PT Cruisers. We had to take it to get the options we wanted...extra door but no power. Wife was particular.

Cheers,

Dag

rroyce10 · May 2003

....... It's a 99 with a bunch of miles, it's a GS, the color is fine for the area, new rubber .. lot's of these around, actually good vehicles.

Trade side, might see the ultra high $5's, "maybe" the low low $6's if it's perfect, needs -0- and glows in the dark .. like I said before, lot's of these around, a quick, no brain damage sale price ~ $7/$7,5ish makes it go away, too many LS's out there for a couple bucks more.

Terry.

rroyce10 · May 2003

....... Right now, I would say that the majority of vehicles you are seeing in the import market are from the auctions .. it's simple, people don't trade in a real nice Clean "3" series on a "5" - they trade a 120k Lexus, a 71k Caddy, a 99 Town Car or Saab with 55k .. when you don't get good trades for inventory, then you are out buying them.

This is an auto .. right ..? .. sometimes you Left Coasters pay a little more than the rest of the country, miles don't scare ya there - "hey, let's drive 50 miles and get another Cafe' latte'" .. hehehe .. if the vehicles is clean, deep sneakers, great history, super service, no re-paint .. then the dealer might have $24 in the vehicle, let's "certify" it $25, let's do a little this and a little that $26, let's pay for the boarding of the dealers dogs for month $26,5 -- ahhh, I'm running out of stuff .. $28 and $29 would be the EOW (End Of the World) .. there is Ton's of "5"s running around right now .. $30,0 ..? Nope.!

Terry.

onyeiii · May 2003

and seems like good basic transportation for a 16 yr old (or me, for that matter!). So what do you think about costs? This one is an'01, automatic, silver, about 50,000 miles. Seems to be a base model. Private seller asking $6900 in Oklahoma City. What do the wise men think? Hmmm - maybe I should call y'all something else - did you see that movie Training Day?

You guys are right about Prizms/Corollas. The first new car I ever bought (I'm dating myself here) was a Corolla, and I never had a bit of trouble with it.

Thanks for all your help. The car hunt continues.

Hankr · May 2003

Glad to have made your day with my naivete. Clearly you spend a great deal of time here helping people and that is laudable. And the 12000+ posts are indeed clear evidence of peoples' desire for "real" information.

My point was that I'd prefer to pay for hard data, the "Used-Car-World-According-to-Mannheim" instead of getting the "Used-Car-World-According-to-Terry" for free.

Let me ask my question in a different fashion. Does anyone know WHY Mannheim (and others) do NOT make their recent-sales data available to consumers?

steine13 · May 2003

Why doesn't Manheim sell their data to the public?

The answer is that they work for their clientele: Car dealers. And car dealers do not want that information available to the public. The "bad" reason is that it's easier to make a profit when people aren't informed. The "good" reason is that it's really bad for everyone when people are half informed.

[The sound you hear is from Terry and everyone who's ever sold a used car nodding vigorously.]

In my opinion, the smartest thing the car dealers of America ever did was make the blue books (KBB, NADA etc.) widely available. Now everyone "knows" what their old sled is worth and is trying to sell on their own. Most people -- correct me if I'm wrong here, folks! -- wind up shooting 15-25% too high, get frustrated after two weeks or two months, and are sufficiently softened up for talking turkey at the local Chevy store.

Wish I had a buck for every time I heard "I know what it's worth, the Credit Union told me". This on some rust bucket with dubious history and oil in the tail pipe. Thank you for your time. Some chick at the other end of the telephone putting a number on an 8-yr-old car with 120k miles??? You have GOT to be kidding me -- and it's done all the time.

Now with the Manheim data, things would really get gnarly: The numbers would be there, they would be real, but there wouldn't be Terry saying "IF-IF-IF": IF it's knee deep in rubber, IF you have all the receipts, etc.
It's basically no good if you can't see the cars. You don't know the color, the condition, the maintenance... Yeah, I'd love to have access to that data, and I think I could make some use of it. But I've been wheeling and dealing at the amateur level for over a decade, plus a couple years of graduate school here at Town Hall.

So be careful what you wish for. Also, you wouldn't get Terry's diatribe along with the numbers, and what a loss that would be. My diagnosis is still Adult ADD and hypothyroid...

-Mathias
East Lansing, MI

phaedrys · May 2003

I've got a 2002 VW GTI 1.8t (with the 180 hp engine) that I think I've got to get rid of. I love the car, but the reliability is killing me. Its a 5 speed, indigo blue, tan leather, all the options (leather, lux, cold weather, moonroof, 17" wheels). It has 22,000 miles on it.

Any ideas what its worth trade in/retail in the Philly/South Jersey area?

Thanks everybody :-)

Hankr · May 2003

Next week there are 40+ Suzuki Aerios (2002 & 2003) up for auction (ADESA in Concord/Acton, MA) consigned by American Suzuki. All have low miles (2K to 10K).

Certainly the Aerio is a very low-volume seller, so my question is:
Where would these vehicles have come from?
when consigned directly by the manufacturer.

- Lemon law buybacks??
- Repos??
- Rentals??
- Demos??

Is it worrisome that American Suzuki is based in California and these units are being sold in New England (ie. could they be moving their lemons into the market where they are least-successful?)

We have an Aerio, love it and may want another. A friend is licensed to attend these auctions and would charge us a fixed-fee over the auction price if he bought on our behalf. But before I pursue it, I'd like some insight on the possible origins of these cars.

PS: If a lemon-law buyback, must this be disclosed?

PSS: Any guesses what a 2003 Aerio GS sedan, 5K miles, FWD and Auto might fetch at auction? New this car would sell "real world" for about $13,000+/- .

PSS: Please don't tell me an Aerio's value will fall like a rock. We know. But my family pounds a lot of miles on our cars, always keeping to over 100K. By that time, nothing's worth very much. When bought at a good price and kept most of their useful life, Suzukis provide reliability and low cost-of-ownership.

zueslewis · May 2003

it would be disclosed, but in the 3 state area I cover, I've never seen a Suzuki Aerio case.

Many dealers will run a car through the auction just to move it off the lost and stop paying floorplan. This works really well with one that is used as a service loaner or other dealer service vehicle.

There are probably a few reposessions involved. Mostly, though, if a dealer has 10 of them, and only needs 4, 6 go away - just business.

quinnd · May 2003

What would be an approximate price on a 2001 Mercedes ML430 with the third row seat option (M7)? The one I saw is fairly loaded with other options too, just about everything except the Sky Roof and Sport Package. Average mileage, Black with Gray interior. I am in the Los Angeles area. Thanks ...

rroyce10 · May 2003

...... Average miles ...? ?????

           Depend on what colors you like best ..! it depends on what flavor ice cream your Mother in Law likes ...

       B E ~~ S P E C I F I C .... !

                 Terry.

chile96 · May 2003

Hey Terry .... need some help!

I've got a nice 4 dr sedan with relatively new tires. The color is a beaut! No real cosmetic damage except for the usual stuff here and there. The mileage is pretty low, well low for a car recently produced in the 20th century. Anyway, it's got a sunroof and pretty sticker on the rear window. I of course got nearly all the options when I ordered it so I think it should be worth more than its everyday cousin. I was thinking somewhere in the 5 figure range. What's your take?

LOL.....I'm sure I speak for all in here. Your expertise and patience is the most valuable resource Edmunds has to offer. They should be paying you to come up with the TMV's instead of that monkey with the propeller on his baseball cap.

Take care & keep up the good work!
fo

paolenz · May 2003

I am seeing a lot of BMW lease return cars lately and have been visitng the dealership lots quite a few times. I am never quite sure what and hot to look for it when it comes to inspect the cars. The paint is somehow flawless. I am also aware the dealers could very well hide, repair or repaint scrathes, dings, paints flaws or dents for cars they intend to sell. But how in the world am I suppose to find out if the car was repainted. Any tips?

paolenz · May 2003

I can be a better buyer knowing that you are there and cares about us, the little people. Thank you.

rroyce10 · May 2003

..... Hmmm, interesting 4dr, is it deep in cucumbers, does it run with a red light on top .? .. could be worth uuh, duh, maybe $5,500, or if it's a light peach in color it may be worth $27,000, but not more than $86,000.l.o.l.

Thanks, I appreciate the compliment ...

Terry :-)

rroyce10 · May 2003

..... There's a picture scan we had here by Bill .. I will have to look it up for you and this way, you can see what to look for ...

Terry.

steine13 · May 2003

Oh yeah... got that one bookmarked:
http://www.vauxhallpa.50megs.com/paintwork.html
Excellent!
-M

rroyce10 · May 2003

.... Thanks Bud.! you are my hero.! I would have been floppin' around like a mullet lookin' for that paintwork page ..

Terry.

rroyce10 · May 2003

...... Miles are a little tall for for an 01, power pack .. right .? - you have to really watch these, they start to break down around 150/170k ..

Hey if it has new rubber, no I bounced off my neighbors garage, service is all done, nice and clean, then $6,5 would be fair for both ...

Terry.

rroyce10 · May 2003

.. >> instead of getting the "Used-Car-World-According-to-Terry" for free. <<

           I will make this short and sweet - Steine13 explained most of it, but IF you would have taken a minute and read my profile And a dozen or so posts, you might know whats going on here -- by the way, I go to more than a few auctions and most of those are Manheim, plus I see 300/400 dealers a year, and 80% of those guys still can't read an auction report correctly, that's why they call me long distance to purchase their vehicles. .. Yes, this is a free service and most of my dealer friends aren't real happy about it, but that's show biz.

          I must be doing a few things right cuz' I get emailed more than Santa .. Now, you can anywhere you like to get your info .. IF you know what I mean.

                   Terry.

rroyce10 · May 2003

..... Cold package works for you in NJ, GTI, wheels, and leather, blue with tan gut's works for color .. miles are a little steep.

These are funny little buggers, they get real cold in the winter and real hot in the spring, they are kinda all over the place right now .. trade side, in and around the $13's, maybe the high $13's if it's puuurffect.

Terry.

phaedrys · May 2003

I'll let you know how it works out in the next few weeks. You guys provide a great service. Thanks :-)

paolenz · May 2003

A dealer in San Francisco, CA is offering a jet black '01 5301 with 26K miles, CPO sports package for 39.9K. Another dealer in Fremont, CA is offering an '02 530i Kalahari Beige with 16K miles premium package for roughly 38.9K. I have not made any counteroffers yet. Now I am baffled at the pricing because the '01 is one year older than the '02 and the price are almost identical. Carfax for both came clean, except that the '01 was shipped from Greece or the port of origin was from Greece. Why the price disceprancies? Is there a big difference between a sports and premium package in terms of amenities/price? Is color also an indicator of establishing ceiling price?
What real world price should I offer to these dealers knowing that it is a soft market?

Thanks in advance Terry

zueslewis · May 2003

for whatever reason....

Considering, however, the countless hours that Terry spends here, for free, beating up his mind in the process, is ALWAYS dead-on accurate (take that from another appraiser), and did I mention, hangs out here helping consumers for free, this has got to be the most disrespectful post I've seen in a long time.

"My point was that I'd prefer to pay for hard data, the "Used-Car-World-According-to-Mannheim" instead of getting the "Used-Car-World-According-to-Terry" for free."

Go on, pay your money - IF a report existed, you wouldn't have a clue as to how to read it, it wouldn't include options packages and specific conditions, and it would be generally worthless to you. IF Manhiem starts to publish it, though, I hope they charge HUNDREDS for the subscription - and you should buy two.

petepie1 · May 2003

Hi Terry,
I've posted a few times before looking for the trade in value on this car, since I keep getting close to replacing it, but now it's really going to happen--the water pump went out. So, what should I look for on dealer trade for this car (and is it worth it to try to sell retail in this condition). I may donate it if trade is lower than $1500.

1990 Mercedes 190E 2.6 sedan, automatic
White/Navy MB Tex interior
176,000 miles. Sunroof, cassette player, no other options. Problems: 1 rear window does not go up unless you jiggle the wiring, water pump is out, A/C not working (in the past, adding freon has fixed it, but I have no idea if that's the fix this time around). Overall in fair condition, interior in good condition except for door panel insert vinyl has come unglued, and outside in fair condition, with some nicks and dings.

Thank you for your help.
Pete

dogmom2 · May 2003

Sedan 1996 with 70K miles. I am going to trade in this car which is in average shape, I guess. I am considering a Honda Oddy or Element. Or a new Sienna. I have had repair bills of about $1500 this year. I am looking at a $300 to fix the driver side door popping sound which would be obvious at trade in. Only reason to put it off is I have to be without car for 3 days. I am just getting tired of having to organize my self/family to get it fixed. We need a larger vehicle for trips, too. The Element appeals because of the lack of carpet, really. Realistically, the minivans would be more of what we need in the long run with kids.

Question is: Should I get the door fixed? Will it help my trade in value? I would get it detailed also. Again, overall the car is only average in quality. With little kids, we are hard on the interior.

Thanks

dweller1 · May 2003

NEED ONE FOR A FRIEND, expected trade -in and private party sale #'s please. 1999 Toyota Solara (2-door of course) pearlescent white in color, auto, black leather, new rubber, no slider, in georgia, no wrecks or paint work. 45 clicks on odometer.seats look hovered in. It isnt a new lexus coupe ,but it almost glows in the dark. Dealer has offered $10,ooo and my friend buy the new accord coupe for 400 over invoice, is this acceptable? OR SHOULD I TELL HIM TO KEEP BARGAINING? thanks ........dweller

dweller1 · May 2003

is a four cylinder and the new accord coupe is a 4 cyl and 5 speed manual tranny

steine13 · May 2003

Your buddy should run not walk to that dealer and take the $$$.
Friend of mine bought the same car LAST YEAR with the same miles -- except vinyl not leather; white; sun roof -- for a touch under $12. That $10 is almost a retail figure, esp. since the market has crumpled some since then.
[But I'm not a car dealer.. just play one on Edmunds..]
-Mathias
East Lansing, MI

stillageek · May 2003

I enjoy reading this section. I have a question about retail road. How does one sell a car that they still have a lean on? Would the buyer write me a check, I then pay off my car then mail him the title?

zueslewis · May 2003

The best thing, unless you don't want them to know what your payoff is, is to go to your bank, if it's local, and do the transaction there.

If they have a loan officer who can release the lein, you're in good shape.

Otherwise, for protection of both parties, put the fact of the lein's existence on the bill of sale, and contract that you'll pay off the loan and send the title within xx days (usually 30, to be safe).

rivertown · May 2003

Your buyer's probably gonna wanna register and tag the car, requiring a free title.

You can lend him your tags, a potential prob for you. He can put his old tags on, a potential prob for him. You or he can try to get a temp (drive out) tag, which can be a real pain.

Best - pay off the loan, get the lien lifted, be done with it.

Hankr · May 2003

my post was a bit snappy... cuz your post to my original was also snappy. Clearly you do spend tons of time here helping many people.

But yes, I do like hard data... it is the business I am in (enterprise data-based web software and web-subscriptions to same).

Regional differences must come into play in the car biz too. Terry's experiences with Subarus, for example, may not apply well to my New England market, (where Subies retain value better than elsewhere).

If people in the car business cannot read Manheim's auction-result listings, then Manheim ought to improve their report content and/or design (maybe I should contact them and offer our services).

But I still contend that Manheim has a business-opportunity to market recent-sale data to consumers, in a user-friendly and understandable fashion, that they are not capitalizing upon.

Til then, however, Terry provides a very useful service.

onyeiii · May 2003

Now how did that chant go??

Thank you Terry, Mathias!

I pick up the Prizm today or tomorrow. White, 46k, Auto, CD, and yes, the power pack, air, cruise, etc. for $6,500. This car is in excellent shape, used only for commuting by a doctor (literally), so should be a great little car for us. And yes, I am hoping for 150k+miles.

Thanks Again!

jasmith52 · May 2003

Terry:

I was out looking at late model used cars last Friday and came upon a 99 Chrysler Concord Lxi with all the toys (leather, power everything etc).
The car was immaculate with about 53k miles and was one of the used cars on the front line at a Buick dealer. I looked up Edmunds TMV price and it was about $9800 (retail).

The only problem was that the car was listed as "True Mileage Unknown" or TMU. Here in California the state flags the title with this TMU flag for such cars. The salesman wasn't certain but believed that the computer had been swapped out causing the mileage problem.

Anyway it would have to be a cash deal since no bank would finance it. The dealership was anxious to move the car and would discount it considerably.

My question for you then is - What would be a reasonable discount to expect for such a car. I know that if I bought this car that when I resell the car that I would again have to discount the car some for the next buyer.

The car was very clean and could be an excellent value given the right discount. What is your opinion here ???

rutger3 · May 2003

If I am trying to figure how much a dealer paid for a trade in that I am interested in buying is Kelly Blue Book the best to use? Don't dealers use Galves or whatever gives them the lowest price. It is tough to figure dealer profit on a used car.
Two cars considering for my son's first car, 96 Accord coupe EX,auto,with 98k,looks to be in 'good' condition. They are asking $7400 with 30 day warranty and guaranteed inspection.
The other is a 99 Mazda Protege LX with 51k,remote,cd,in good condition. Dealer asking $7600 with some kind of warranty.

isellhondas · May 2003

I just have to ask...

Why does it matter what the dealer paid?

The car either represents good value to you or it does not.

I guess I'll never understand...?

jasmith52 · May 2003

Well, when I'm out looking at cars to buy, as always price comes up. And I usually get something along the lines of - well we have to see how much we are in the car for.

So with that in mind it would be great to know - "what we are in it for"

Other than that - I agree with your implication that a car is worth some intrinsic value and it is irrelevant what a dealer paid.

isellhondas · May 2003

That would be a last resort. I try to sell the car for it's value first.

Now, if it's been sitting on our lot for sixty days and someone makes a low offer, only then, I might show them what we have invested in it.

Otherwise, it's really none of the buyer's business anyway.

beachfish · May 2003

I'm in the middle of a deal between 2 retired nurses - one 84 and one 77. If the deal goes through I get to ride the bus 100 miles and drive the car back (sigh).

What would a ballpark auction or trade-in figure be for a plain old...

1992 Cavalier 4d sedan w/ 29,000 miles. Gray, auto, air, radio.

One owner, always parked outside, good upkeep, average condition(really pretty nice considering the age.)

Thanks,

John

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