Real-World Trade-In Values

ateixeira · August 2007

I'll give you $14k for it right now, cash, sight unseen.

No, seriously.

PS Welcome back Terry!

noaagirl · August 2007

I would like to get some reassurance that I didn't lie to a postal inspector asking me what the car I bought from someone on eBay was actually worth vs what I paid for it.

Pittsburgh PA
2006 VW New Beetle Convertible
Salsa Red
Manual transmission
10000 miles
Package 2 options (Windscreen, leather seats, heated seats, alloy wheels, Monsoon sounds system, top cover, heated mirrors, ... the works)
Very good condition (a few road chips, but nice looking)
Seller said it was rarely driven in rain, never in snow/ice (Carfax says he took ownership in Sept 05) no accidents, no scrapes except a little bit of curbage on one wheel)

I bought for 18,5 - told the PI I thought it was close to a dealer trade in number, probably a thou or so less than a true private party number. He's just looking to make sure that the victim in the legal case against the seller didn't get shafted by having the seller sell too cheap. (I bought it for exactly the lease payoff).

Any confirmation of value would greatly reassure me. Thanks!

timetobuy1 · August 2007

Any ideas on what I can expect for trade-in?

Little Rock, AR
2003 Ford Eddie Bauer Expedition
4WD
4 dr
70,000 miles
Red exterior, tan interior
moon roof, power rear seat, leather seats, dvd, heated/cooled seats, rear heat/air
good condition, golf ball sized spot/stain on carpet in back
new tires
new brakes within last year
oil changed every 3,000-5,000 miles
no prior damage, repaint, etc.

Thanks!

qbrozen · August 2007

oh, now you've peaked my interest. What's a postal inspector have to do with all of this and where does your newly acquired car fit in?

noaagirl · August 2007

The seller is being investigated for (among other charges) mail and wire fraud; hence the postal inspector's role in the investigation. The car was to be seized as part of a civil forfeiture action related to his misdeeds; however the seller made an agreement with the PI and the Feds to allow him to sell it on his own.

Full disclosure: I knew that the seller was being investigated for illegal activity before I bought the car on eBay (the wonder and power of Google). The postal inspector assured me in the course of our conversation that my purchase was not under any threat of being repossessed by the government. He was concerned that the car may have been sold for less than its value, though.

kyfdx · August 2007

First... Why take that chance? :surprise:

Second.. Are you a weather girl?

qbrozen · August 2007

I find it odd that the investigator would need you to tell him what the car is really worth. And since it was an Ebay auction, I don't see why he needed to speak with you at all. The final price is public information and he should be able to determine the true value on his own. I dunno, the whole thing just seems very very odd to me. Maybe he just wanted to talk to you.

noaagirl · August 2007

I know the whole deal sounds really fishy and risky - but I did a lot of investigating before putting my money on the line (which is how I found out about the CF in the first place); the car seemed to be an excellent deal, the seller was a VW-freak (he also had 2 Kharmann Ghias, 2 Super Beetles, and 2 old Beetles named in the civil forfeiture action) so I knew that the car was very likely to be in good condition (it was), and I was very careful to structure the deal so that he didn't actually get any cash in hand. Anyway, the guy was already up to his neck in legal issues, I figured (hoped) he wasn't going to pull a fast one with Feds breathing down his neck. I knew everything about everything before a dime went to VW Credit(from whom he was leasing the car).

I saw this as a chance to own more New Beetle than I would normally have been able (in terms of options relative to price). That, and I totally love the car. The PI and the Feds were only really concerned if I got the car for, like, 20% less than its value - and I am guessing for them that means what they would have gotten at a govt auction.

No, not a weather girl - but I love weather! Does that count? I do work for NOAA, though. Love that too.

cdnpinhead · August 2007

Terry,

Where the HELL have you been? We missed you. Hope you were having fun.

I'll read on from your post and hope this one isn't rendered stupid.

Do let us know what you've been up to.

ateixeira · August 2007

I thought the price was high and was gonna bite my tongue to be nice, but then I read the C part, for convertible.

You got a deal. Those are $25k new. 10k miles and the value is down to $18.5k? Laugh all the way to the bank, girl! :shades:

noaagirl · August 2007

There were other questions the PI asked me, to be sure (was I related to the seller, did I offer/was I asked for additional cash when I picked up the car, etc). Apparently these guys were having a real hard time with his collection of old VWs - they were mostly in near mint condition, and getting their value to compensate the victim was going to require a specialized enthusiasts auction or something.

Also, these cars (New Beetles) don't seem to really be selling on the used car market. Most eBay cars weren't sold in the end, and it seemed to me that both dealers and eBayers were asking more for the cars than the market was willing to pay, so it made it difficult to ascertain what the "real" value of the car was.

I'm sure that I did better than I ever could have done with a private party or dealer sale, but I don't know whether I got it for an "auction" price or what a dealer would offer for trade in, which I figured would be closest to what the gov't would get at their own auctions.

woodyww · August 2007

you drive a very nice vehicle now ... look at everything else "besides" a Hyundai/Kia...

About a year ago, there was some guy who was obsessed with trading his loaded 1 yr. old Accord EX-L for a Hyundai. I told him it was "the worst idea I'd ever heard on this board".

Your idea of trading a 2 yr. old Acura for a Hyundai (a Hyundai!), is maybe the 2nd worst.

There's a reason why 2 yr. old TL's with 44K miles are worth $21K, & "Hyundai's" have the resale value of 5 day old liverworst.....

rroyce10 · August 2007

**...The PI and the Feds were only really concerned if I got the car for, like, 20% less than its value - and I am guessing for them that means what they would have gotten at a govt auction....**

The price on the Vdub is excellent, waaay below retail ... it's a great buy as long as it wasn't a repaint or it didn't have a $9,500 "6 week body shop vacation" -- and not a salvage title.

I've dealt with the fed's before, so I guess I'm a little confused (I was born that way) ... why would the Fed's be so concerned with what you paid for the vehicle on a civil suit.?

... it's owned by VWC, it's an F&C title, they're hot on the market, they'll bring stupid money at the auctions - $18,5/$20,000 and dealers are getting $21/$23ish on the retail market, that they can see on their own PC's .... was it cash in, cash out.?

Terry.

mjk5 · August 2007

I'm just wondering if you guys could help me out with this, I am looking to trade in a 99 galant with about 98k miles on it. It has leather interior/moon roof, but I have a few problems with it which could lower the value.

AC doesn't work, it needs a new compressor, the belt was taken off and I could just put it back on to make AC work again (mechanic told me a year ago if I kept belt on it may cause engine problems ultimately) It's a shady thing to do but with dealing with dealerships lately and seeing how they have scammed people especially my mom I'd have no problem doing it to a dealership.

Second Radio works on/off I use Sirius so I think I could say must have unplugged something.

The next two though I don't know if I can hide, I have had a leaking problem with the moonroof since I got the car. Now there is no way they would know unless I told them, but the driver leather seat had a small cigarette burn that because of leakage has turned into a big tear in the leather, how much could they deduct for this? Also, a recent problem as in the last week is that unless I press very hard the moonroof doesn't seem to want to close.

I believe the car has trade in value of 2k before these problems, how much could I get from a dealer for this car?

rroyce10 · August 2007

**...I heard that the course was going to be walk only, no golf carts!...**

Actually, this is Tigers second course .. the first one is being completed in Dubai in 2009(?) .. they paid him $25 mill for that piece of sand.

Yeah no carts, it's a "green thing" .. that should last about 12 days .l.o.l.. it's in the middle of the friggin' mountains, it will have 30/60 degree slopes ... they better build some ski lifts, an EMS and a hospital "right" next door -- no carts, right.

Terry. :sick:

noaagirl · August 2007

It wasn't a civil suit... it was a civil forfeiture; it's the code under which the Federal marshalls take possession of property believe to have abetted illegal activity (typically drug forfeitures, but also money laundering, which is what it was in this case.) Guy was in insurance, so I can only imagine how he got himself into this pickle. His loss, my gain.

Saw the title with my own eyes... so quite sure it was clean. Don't understand F&C - what does that mean?

There was no money exchanged between the seller and me. He gave me the keys, we signed a bill of sale (notarized), and I drove home with the car (actually, husband did. I hadn't learned to drive stick yet). I mailed the payoff (the car was leased, so I bought out the lease) to VW - they sent me the title, I signed it - filled out all the "buyer" info, then Fedexed it to the seller for his signature, which he then Fedexed back (I didn't want him to have a title with the lien released without my information already filled in).

18-20 at auction makes me feel a little better... the gov't apparently takes 20% off the top, then pays off lienholders, then any additional proceeds go to the victim. I didn't want to have the bad karma of having possibly denied the victim any proceeds if the gov't had auctioned it.

Plus, as a bonus, I bought a cool story with my car!

Many thanks!

steine13 · August 2007

F&C -- I think Terry meant "free and clear," sounds like you did really well.

You do have more nerve than I do, though, I'll admit that.

-Mathias

steine13 · August 2007

I wouldn't worry about it too much, if that compressor hasn't turned in one year, I doubt you can "make AC work again" under any circumstance.

And to the trained eye, your car will look like what it is, i.e. a "rat". Never mind the details.

As far as "I'd have no problem doing it to a dealership", we'll have to disagree on that. Still and all, usually it costs money to find out if someone is a crook. I for one am grateful, in your case it only took 30 seconds of reading.

You really might want to read what you wrote and then choose a different plan of attack.

-Mathias

qbrozen · August 2007

good grief. sounds like a car you should donate.

mjk5 · August 2007

So they won't even take my car

rroyce10 · August 2007

**.. the Federal Marshalls take possession of property believe to have abetted illegal activity (typically drug forfeitures, but also money laundering, which is what it was in this case.).. --- they sent me the title, I signed it - filled out all the "buyer" info, then Fedexed it to the seller for his signature, which he then Fedexed back (I didn't want him to have a title with the lien released without my ..**

Good morning .. yep, I got that part .... but as a rule in a fed forfeiture, the person(s) or company loses all rights (real and perceived) to do anything .. they don't have any rights to sign on or off, it's done much like a BK ... everything is listed and frozen and handled almost in trust situation, this way there can be no liquidation or exchanges unless the Fed court signs off - and they don't need or want signatures, it's a federal stamp ..

I guess it's the: "Fedexed it to the seller for his signature, which he then Fedexed back" which I don't understand ..... of course I don't understand why I'm wearing 2 different socks this morning either.

Terry. :shades:

graphicguy · August 2007

You buy a small vinyl, or fabric, cooler that will fit in a golf bag sleeve/pouch.

jipster, I just got one of those sleeve "thingies". It came in handy yesterday when I had to WALK 18, in 100 degree heat, and even more humidity. I think I dropped 10 pounds yesterday. If it weren't for that sleeve of cold ones, the buzzrds would have been circling my carcass somewhere around the 13th tee box.

noaagirl · August 2007

The property hadn't yet been seized (I can't remember the dates on the public notice) and/or he was given explicit permission to sell this car (and one other car also listed in the public notice) on his own. I can't remember the dates on the public notice (and they aren't Google-able anymore) but IIRC the date listed as the forfeiture action was later then when I bought it.

Seems weird, but who knows.

When I talked with the Postal Inspector, one thing I found interesting was that it seemed like this was a nuisance case rather than a big meaty one. The seller confessed to officials (rather than having been caught, although it sounds like he was about to have been found out) and it just didn't seem like the postal inspector was really that concerned (the questions he asked me were asked rather perfunctory - although he was very friendly, and a little gossipy). He said he was investigating it because it was plopped into his lap via the seller's confession, but, and I'm paraphrasing his words "maybe it will get before a judge in 6 months if I have the time to get to it." He sounded like he had much bigger fish to fry before dealing with this guy. Perhaps hence the allowance to the seller to get rid of the car on his own.

They aren't/weren't allowing him to get rid of his classic VW collection on his own, though. Funny enough, the PI asked if I was interested in buying any of the classic VWs that the seller owned (only half-joking, I think). I don't know why the modern cars were treated differently.

sebring95 · August 2007

Likely treated different because (at least your beetle) was a lease. The guy doesn't technically own it, just an option to buy it.

woodyww · August 2007

This all sounds way, way, way too complicated (to me), just to save maybe, a couple of $$thou on a VW.....I'd rather pay 10-12% more & have an easy transaction with less worries.

But that's just me, hope it works out for you.

PS--what's gonna happen with hurricanes this season? Have any "inside info"???

noaagirl · August 2007

I figured that I saved anywhere from 4-7 thousand (higher amounts for a comparably equipped 2007), and although the transaction sounds terribly complicated with all of the ancillary issues, it really wasn't. The waiting game (waiting for my check to clear at VW, waiting for the title, waiting for him to send it back) was the toughest part (and even that wasn't too bad, since I was on Grand Cayman for vacation for two weeks during the wait - how ironic!)

Sorry - no inside info on the Hurricanes season. I'm more of a Seminole's fan anyway :P

sandman46 · August 2007

Looks like we're gonna miss Dean...thank G-d. We just got the outside of our house repaired from the Wilma damage. Hopefully, we'll be spared again this year.

The Sandman

steven39 · August 2007

hi folks, i need a honest trade-in value for my 07 vw rabbit.i just got back from my local pontiac dealership to look at the 08 pontiac g6 and also had my rabbit appraised there as well.i think they tried to really screw me on my vw rabbit's trade-in value.i purchased this 07 rabbit 4dr in oct 06....it's fully loaded with moonroof,auto,sat radio,front-rear side airbags,6-disk cd stereo,ect.....paid 20,000.00 in oct 06.....pontiac dealer offered me 14,000 for the rabbit and i walked out of the dealership..this car has only 5,200 miles and is like brand new with over 4 years of factory warranty remaining but the dealer was not impressed.iam glad that i walked out instead of letting them rake me over the coals.edmunds.com used car appraiser says this model rabbit with the mialege and options has a trade-in value of over 16,000....some dealers must think that all customers are morons to think that they will accept an offer like i was offered.i left the dealership feeling like an idiot.but i guess i would have felt like a much bigger idiot had i traded my vw rabbit in for only 14,000......thanks for letting me vent here..lol

steve

steine13 · August 2007

Well.... I was thinking the same thing, that's pretty low... until I looked at the Manheim data... thatis, apparently, what these puppies are pulling at the auction:

07 4door VW Rabbit:

07/20/07 NEVADA Lease $14,300 2,281 Avg SILVER 5G A Yes
06/13/07 MILWAUKE Regular $13,100 3,740 Below SILVER 5G A Yes
02/13/07 OHIO Lease $14,300 3,827 Avg WHT 5G A Yes

Were I you, I'd keep it. I don't think you're even gonna get $15 on trade from anyone, and I think you can drive it two more years and only lose an additional $2 or $3k. But that's for you to decide.

Since data are so skimpy on the 4dr, here are some 2dr Rabbits, sorted by mileage. Not so different, even though the 4drs were significantly more expensive.

08/10/07 NEVADA Regular $14,400 1,380 Avg RED 5G M Yes
08/08/07 BAY CITI Regular $14,500 3,070 Avg SILVER 5G A Yes
07/27/07 PENSCOLA Lease $14,200 4,679 Avg RED 5G T Yes
08/09/07 ATLANTA Regular $14,200 5,232 Avg SILVER 5G A Yes
08/15/07 CEN FLA Regular $14,400 5,827 Avg BLACK 5G A Yes
08/10/07 MANHEIM Regular $13,900 6,647 Avg WHITE 5G Yes
07/24/07 STATESVL Regular $13,000 7,048 Below BLACK 5G M Yes
07/26/07 MANHEIM Lease $16,300 7,150 Above WHITE 5G A No
08/06/07 AYCOCK Regular $13,700 8,750 Avg WHITE 5G 5 Yes
07/26/07 MANHEIM Lease $13,900 8,922 Avg SLVR 5G 5 Yes
08/08/07 CEN FLA Regular $13,500 9,825 Avg BLUE 5G A Yes
08/08/07 DALLAS Regular $13,000 14,728 Below BLUE 5G 5 No

Keep in mind the Pontiac dealer does not have a lot of people coming to his lot looking for an '07 VW. So they won't give you top dollar, obviously, in any case.

Try a private sale, maybe asking $16,900 or something, and good luck.
-Mathias

sandman46 · August 2007

Sounds like a really nice car...why are you selling it so soon? Any reliability issues going on here or just got the itch to trade? Wish the 4 door Rabbit had been out last year when I bought my Civic, would've loved to have driven one for comparison sake. Never owned a VW product either and I've heard only good things about the Rabbit. like the styling also with the nice alloys.

The Sandman

im_brentwood · August 2007

Steine is right.. car's worth in the $13-14k range, Pontiac dealer gave you a reality # on it.

Edmunds is not always right... I just was looking at some of the values on older BMWs...

http://www.edmunds.com/used/1991/bmw/m3/203/options.html

Took me about 10 minutes to stop laughing... friend of mine just sold a rusty and part-primered '88 rolling shell M3 (No drivetrain) for $5500. An edgy driver is worth $12k, cherry driver $high teens and a pristine garage queen $25k.

Check eBay for a reality check on those.

Granted it's an extreme example but it goes to show that no website is going to be 100% accurate, that's why I started this topic, that's why those of us in the biz post in here, to help you guys out.

Also, you have a VERY late model car you want to trade in.. pricing on them can be quite Volatile. Did your $20k new car just get hit with a $2k rebate? That's $2k right off your car's value.

Market fluctuations won't mess with that 4-6 year old car's value all that much, but on that 4-12 month old car's value they sure as heck will.

steine13 · August 2007

... friend of mine just sold a rusty and part-primered '88 rolling shell M3 (No drivetrain) for $5500.

Well, that's just... remarkable. Odd. Stupid.

WHAT THE ....???

-Mathias

im_brentwood · August 2007

a) The rust was minor.

b) It was a genuine Henna car.

I have one that's been tied up in probate for 2 years.. 28k original miles, '90 Diamondschwarz/Black, as new and perfect in and out. Been offered $30k for it from multiple parties.

Looky what double "TMV Dealer retail" buys you in an E30 M3.. it ain't pretty. Ditto an E34 M5.

littlewonder · August 2007

I don't know what Manheim data is, but could you tell me what my 2002 Mini Cooper (65k miles) should sell for. I'm thinking of trading it in but am not sure if I should just go through the hassle of selling it privately or take the easy way out and trade it in.

jeffyscott · August 2007

Dealer offering to sell my kid a '95 Civic DX with 5 speed manual for $2700. Has 103,000 miles, there is nothing to speak of on it...crank windows, manual locks, does have working A/C and radio with cassette. Tires have maybe 10,000 miles left to baldness. Has rust behind rear wheels, there is a bit more rust on the side you don't see in the photo below.

jlawrence01 · August 2007

Sounds decent ... if it checks out OK with an independent mechanic.

You will be investing about $3k in the car after you replace the tires. Do you think that you can get another 30-40k miles out of the vehicle.

Condition of the vehicle is critical.

steine13 · August 2007

Sounds about right for the market on these things... the Civics of that generation are nothing special; the '96+ version was a big leap forward.

I wouldn't buy it, myself, cuz I think it's too much money for a 13-year-old econobox with rust spots.

But I'm pretty alone in that opinion; if you want one, you're gonna have to pay. I'd go with an '01 Taurus instead, but that ain't foolproof either. Just a lot more car for the money.

Timing belt HAS to be done on that car, otherwise it'll bend the valves when it breaks. There are bound to be other issues...

-Mathias

cccompson · August 2007

Mainheim owns many of the auctions around the country so their data shows what dealers are paying when they buy.

You should post some more details about your Mini to get a reliable number from the experts here.

jeffyscott · August 2007

I agree that it seems like too much, but just about all used 4 cyl cars seem over-priced to me now.

Thanks for the tip on the timing belt.

woodyww · August 2007

Looky what double "TMV Dealer retail" buys you in an E30 M3.. it ain't pretty. Ditto an E34 M5

I could be mistaken, but it seems that way with E39 M5's too--they seem to get HUGE premiums over even 540i's w/similar mileage.

I guess--might as well spring for an M if buying a new bmw (?). At least, it provides a good excuse.....

im_brentwood · August 2007

I'd be happy to help.

Ever see that movie "Short Circuit"?

NEED INPUT!

Color...
Optional Equipment...
Transmission...
Location.. (Nope, don't need your home address, got enough people to stalk already, but a general Metro area would be great)
Ever seen the inside of a body shop?
Condition? Tires? Scratches? Dents? Number of Dead Bodies in trunk?

On the bright side, Minis have exceptional resale.

otherwise, how long is the proverbial piece of string?

Bill

im_brentwood · August 2007

Jeffy,

Where ya located? It's actually not that bad a price, just that.. I can think of better ways to spend $2700 than on a rusty 13yr old Civic with nothing in it.

Bill

im_brentwood · August 2007

Woody,

They were SUPER strong until about the last 6 months or so when they have been dropping like flies.. customer of mine paid $29k for his '00 M5 with 75k on it a year ago and it was the right money at the time.

jeffyscott · August 2007

It's actually not that bad a price, just that.. I can think of better ways to spend $2700 than on a rusty 13yr old Civic with nothing in it.

In the end, my kid ended up deciding that, too. He's gonna continue his search for a 4 cyl manual transmission car to drive the 3 miles to HS.

The place that had this Civic also has a '94 Tracer they offered him for $1500, which would leave him some spare $$$ for the inevitable repairs. He is still thinking on that one...that one has some dings and scratches and non-fuctioning A.C but is rust-free despite being 14 years old and having 138,000 miles.

We are in the Milwaukee, WI area.

im_brentwood · August 2007

Jeffy,

Why not look at the old standby... the Chevrolet/Geo Prizm, the Toyota Corolla with the resale value of a Chevy.

94 Tracer? I bet you can snag one of those off of craigslist for pocket change, it's basically a worthless car.

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/car/397608622.html

Hence my point.

Look for a Prizm...

student22 · August 2007

Terry,
Have a 2006 ford f-150 supercrew in Ok 73701. 8400 miles 5.4 engine 2 wd Two Tone red/silver power windows/locks,power seat, 6 cd changer, 5.5 ft bed, side step bars, one 1" scratch on drivers door Maint 100% tires 80% and brakes 80%+ interior excellent condition exterior excellent except for scratch. Thanks, Justin

im_brentwood · August 2007

The F150...

I'd be a tad conservative on this one... it's an XLT I assume, right? I'm not sure on that 2-tone thing and how well it'll work.. gut hits me around $19,500.

Terry, you know trucks better.. what say you?

Bill

steine13 · August 2007

When I saw the $19,500 I thought, that's pretty low for a nice truck in that trucky part of the country.

Dr. Manheim, otoh, prescribes about $18,000 for trucks with that mileage and in "average" condition... the highest was $19,100, the lowest in the mid-$17s. Ohio, Texas, seems to make no difference. Welcome to $3/gal gas, I guess.

Ouch. Sorry to be the bearer of ill news.

-Mathias

im_brentwood · August 2007

Umm..

Dr Manheim is all over the place on those as expected. If it's otherwise cherry... and an XLT... they are still all over the place.

Still an 8500 mile truck and I would think that a Ford dealer would jump on it. Same guys, presumably, paying close to $20k for em with triple the miles.

mikefm58 · August 2007

This one probably has sell it yourself written all over it.

Location: Orlando Florida

Year/Make/Model: 1999 Honda CRV LX

Body Style: 4 door

Engine: 4 cyl auto

Driveline: FWD

Mileage: 132500

Color: silver exterior, dark grey interior

Major Options: No options

Condition: In decent shape for an 8 year old vehicle with high miles, tires about 2/3 tread left, up to date on maintenance with new brakes. Just had the vehicle checked out at the dealer, they say oil pan gasket leaking, door actuator needs replaced, one rear strut leaking, and brake master cylinder leaking. But have never had to put in oil between oil changes or any brake fluid. He also recommended timing belt be changed but he didn't bother to look up that they did that two years ago at 104K miles. Don't know if the service advisor has a boat payment coming up.

Other: No accidents, a couple comprehensive claims, passenger front window and windshield have been replaced.

Edmunds private party for average condition is $3056, good condition is $4675, and I'm seeing prices on autotrader.com
between $5888 - $9996. I'm thinking $5K if the work is done.

It's been a GREAT vehicle, tough to sell this one, but maybe it's time.....*sniff*.....

Real-World Trade-In Values

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