Bill, I have a base 2000 Ford Mustang coupe, silver, automatic, power seat, cruise, spoiler. It has <6000 miles in good condition. I am in El Paso, Tx.
KBB lists the trade-in value as $15,500. Edmunds TMV says $13,575. What's the real-world trade-in value?
Bill, I have a 1993 SC2 Saturn that I thinking about trading in for a new vehicle and would like an idea of the value. It has 5-speed, red,par windows/locks, alloy wheels, cruise, and in good shape but has 108K miles. I am in callas TX..
Well, you may be overclassifying that car. Hondas are cars that rarely have huge wholesale price swings. In fact, the spread between wholesale and retail on a late-model Honda is about as narrow as any car.
I'd say that your car ought to be classified as "good" by Kelley Blue Book if its' free of any paintwork and only has a couple of small dings. Even then you may be a little bit high. But I still think that it's worth about $5,500.
Perhaps this will help all of the "lurkers" out there when classifying a car on the net:
An "Excellent" car is one with incredibly low mileage, is incredibly clean. It's got all the right options, has never had any kind of damage or paintwork at all. It's never been smoked in, been driven an average of 5K a year, and has been serviced by a dealer, with the service book stamped, every 3 months. It's also in the right color, at the right time of year, etc.
Let's say it's a Silver 1998 Jaguar XK8 Convertible with Premium Sound, in Florida, In March/April, with 11K miles and it's just perfect. It's the car that once you see it, you have to look at the VIN to tell its' not new.
In my opion, and based on my experience, very very few "mass-market" cars will classify here, no matter how nice. There's just too many Accords/Camrys/Explorers/Tauruses/etc out there on the market.
Now, a "Good" or "Clean" car has low mileage, about 10-12K a year and is in excellent condition and free of paintwork. It's in a good or decent color and has been well taken care of.
A "Fair" or "Average" car may be a clean car in Purple, Brown or Black/Black in FL. But its' still in nice shape. May have a few dings or a minor scrape here, but it's a decent car. Say a Hunter Green 1998 Accord with 42K miles and a few dings. An otherwise "clean" car will classify a bit below this if its' had a bit of paintwork.
I ran your car against the Black Book (Which is based on actual auction transactions) And what they are doing at the auctions themselves.
98 Sable LSs with miles in the 40s are averaging about $8,000 or so at auction. I'd peg the car's dead cash value, based on what I'm seeing, at about $7,500-8,000. Recently a 45K mile one did $7,250.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but the wholesale market is just flooded with Sables and Tauruses. There's just a ton of them out there and they tend to go begging. A mileagey one is just not a car any dealer really wants at anything but a "low book" number. The Infiniti Dealer's number may be a bit light, but it is reasonable.
Also, be careful with KBB's classifications. I'd use fair or good only if the car is absolutely perfect.
I'd appreciate your take on the actual trade in for a 91 Legend I coupe, dark blue, 160K miles, auto, ad changer, everything except leather, rear spoiler, chrome wheels, got a few digs and a couple of small interior stains, no mechanical problems. Edmunds has it at about $5K for average condition, BB at $5,285 for fair condition.
I'd appreciate your help on this one. I have a 98 Red Chevy Cavalier LS 4Dr Auto, PW, PL, ABS, Spoiler, 21,000 miles. It is spotless and in "good" condition. Kelly Blue Book is about $8,000 for good and $7,000 for fair. Dealers have been offering me about $6,200 to $6,600. I've seen the black book, and I think it was about $6,600 for fair and $7,600 for good. Most dealers have told me they only rate cars as fair now matter how "good" the condition .
$6,500 is "on the money" for that car. The Low miles do help. If it had miles in the 50K Range, then it's worth about $4,500.
$6,200 may be a tad light, $6,600 though is quite fair.
Please don;t take this the wrong way, but "mass market" American cars tend to clog the auction lanes. As a result, since there's just so many of them out there, they tend to go for cheap. Taurus/Sable/Lumina/Malibus are the best examples of this. As a rule, the only cars that bring "clean" book are low-mile, high-demand, low-production cars in outstanding condition. You'll see highline imports (BMW, MB, Jaguar, etc) do this if theyre the right color and have the right equipment on a regular basis. You won't see Camrys, Accords, F150s, Blazers, etc do this as there's just tons of them out there.
Point is, no matter how good of a deal you get, it's always wisest to go for a good deal on a clean 2-yr old Domestic sedan.
I liken this to my "Cadillac" Example. While MSRP on a 2000 Sedan DeVille with Leather and alloys and CD would have been, what, about $42K? I can buy dozens of clean ones for about $24-25K all day long with miles in the low teens.
Bill, I just nixed a deal on a new 3-series BMW because the dealer I had negotiated a good price on the new car couldn't come close to book value on my trade. I thought I'd get your assessment.
It's a 98 Lexus GS300, silver, black leather interior, 19K miles (very low), leather, cd-changer, moonroof, heated seats, mats, and wheel locks - basically everything except Nak and nav. It is an absolutely perfect, one-owner, never in an accident, non-smoker, no blemish sort of car.
Three on-line books all show $31-$32K wholesale, but since I see cars like this on the lots for $34-$37K ask (but usually with 40K miles), I assume they sell for $32-$35K. Thus, this wholesale seemed high to me and I was hoping for $30K, but would have taken $28K.
Low and behold, the dealer wrinkled his nose, called around to several dealers and came back with $25K, absolute tops. Is my car (a Lexus) really work $6-$7K below book wholesale?
If so, I'm going to drive it for awhile. It is a hell of a nice car for $25K!
I work for Lexus. That does seem sort of low for that car. They have been doing closer to the $28K Mark. In fact, we got $25K out of one similar to yours but it had paintwork and a few more miles. This was a few months ago however. Now, if your car has had paintwork, its' value is slaughtered. If it's missing a roof or leather, same deal. GS300s without those options generally trade on a wholesale level for about $5,000 or so less than cars with them.
Also, your car is in the right color combo for quite a few markets.
That being said, where is the car? Black Interior is a killer here in FL, but a good thing in NY City/NJ.
Even so, it's really worth $28-29K. It's only worth $25K If it's Antique Bronze or some other gross color. It's worth $26-27K if its' Cinnabar, Spectra Blue or Imperial Jade Green.
This assumes a clean, no paintwork car though!
Gimme some more info.. lemme see where we can go from there.
I have done well trading but basically you are giving the darn thing away at auction prices. The only way to know what you are really getting is to buy a new vehicle that sells for say MSRP like Odyssey or Acura MDX then you know. Otherwise, you really never know. I have learned to enjoy selling my cars myself because the new owner gets to see who is selling and both parties come out ahead. INKY
We regularly take in trades where the wholesale value of the car is $30,000++++++. The sales tax advantage on that can be enormous. And most of our customers do not have the time nor patience to sell their cars outright.
I'm hoping to buy a new luxury SUV in January or February. In response to my tentative inquiries, the local dealer here in Austin, TX, has appeared uninterested in considering a price even $5 below MSRP for it, so I will probably have to go out-of-town or out-of-state to purchase it. This probable circumstance, together with the age of my current car, suggests that I will have to either sell my current car myself or give it to a charity such as the Salvation Army. Either way, I'd like to get some idea of what it's worth, especially at wholesale since I'm leaning toward the Salvation Army option and want to be conservative in what I will ultimately report to the Internal Revenue Service as the estimated value of my donation.
The car in question is a 1990 Chevrolet G20 van, customized by Explorer Vans of Warsaw, IN, who do high-quality customizations. My wife and I bought the car new from a Chevrolet dealer in Dallas, TX, in August 1990 and have driven it 120,500 miles to date. We have had it serviced (oil-change and lubrication) every 3,000 miles at a Chevrolet dealer and have had all the 30,000-mile interval services done on schedule at a Chevrolet dealer. It has had one very gentle collision (I rear-ended another car in slippery conditions) that led to replacing the front bumper but with no sheet-metal work needed; it has been involved in no other accidents. No one has ever smoked in the car.
The van has the 5.7 liter V8 engine. The engine and the 4-speed automatic transmission have given no trouble whatsoever. It has power brakes, power steering, power windows, power door locks, and tiltable steering wheel. It still has its original white paint.
The Explorer Van customization provided 4 captain's chairs in the first 2 rows of seats. The driver's seat is power-adjustable. The third row of seating is a bench sofa that powers down into a bed and back up into a bench seat. This sofa also has powered fore-and-aft movement. The radio and tape-player are a Delco premium unit with equalizer. Also provided by Explorer Van is a rear air-conditioner evaporator and fan. The air-conditioner is Freon-based, and although it still cools, it is no longer fully capable of handling the peak heat of Austin summers. The customization also includes running boards, several interior reading and map lights, and even a 12-volt vacuum cleaner.
I haven't found any price listings for used custom vans on Edmund's or other Internet sources, so I'm hoping very much that you will be able to find something relevant in the auction listings that you have access to. The closest I've been able to come is KBB, which--with my rating the car as "good"--returned an estimate of $,2585 for trade-in value; however, this doesn't specifically reflect (at least, so far as I can tell) the customization work. Also, I'm not clear on how "trade-in" value compares with "wholesale" value.
First, let me make a more accurate suggestion: Sell this baby on your own! Conversion vans can be very difficult to appraise. For the heck of it, I asked a wholesaler I know who deals with them occasionally what he thought it may be worth.
He pegged it at $2,000-2,500 or so.. Here's how we truthfully looked at it: 11yrs old, 120K, Bad R12 AC. Again, it does sound like a Nice van and all, however, this is pretty much backed up by what little auction data I have to go on.
Still, I can look into it further if you'd like, but even so I think that $2-2500 is about the figure on it.
I have a 2000 Dodge Intrepid, base model, with a 2.7L V-6. It has about 34,500 miles on it right now, and is stock except for a Viper alarm/remote entry that I had Circuit City install after it got broken into, and a Mopar 12-disk trunk-mounted C/D changer that the dealer threw in as an incentive to get me to take a silver car. I just had the tranny serviced and new tires put on at 30,000 miles, and have changed the oil about every 3500-4000 miles. I have had none of this done at the dealer, though, as they just wanted too much and/or took too long. I can change the oil myself in about 20 mins for about $10.00. By the time I drove down there and had them change it, it would be more like 1 1/2 to 2 hours, and at least $20+
Body-wise, it's fine, except for a couple dings in the plastic bumpers, a couple scrapes where I curbed the hubcaps, and a scratch or two in the bodyside molding. I know it's going to take a beating, simply because Mopars, no matter how reliable they end up being, have a stigma to them. I to the KBB site, and they priced it at $10,140/11,385/12,760 for the fair/good/excellent breakdowns. The KBB lists its retail at $16,055. Just out of curiosity, I priced an Impala with the same stats as my Intrepid, and it listed at $10,340/$12,035/$12,960 trade-in and $15,905 retail. Judging from that, it doesn't look like the Intrepid is getting slammed any worse than similar American cars.
Does adding the remote entry and 12-disk changer add much, if anything to the value? My guess is that it may make the car easier to sell, but won't actually make it bring in a higher dollar amount (although I know whoever ends up retailing it again is bound to try to add for those features!) At the rate I drive, the car is going to get about 25-30K miles a year, and I only put a minimum down, so I'm sure I'll always be upside down on it until the final few payments.
Any guess as to what point in the car's life I should trade it in while taking as gentle of a beating as possible? If I traded in on a Honda or Toyota or something that traditionally doesn't depreciate as fast, would I still take as much of a beating considering the miles I drive? Or would I be better off just selling the Intrepid outright when the time is right, and just take Grandma's '85 LeSabre out of mothballs, drive it till it drops, and then go find another fully-depreciated battlecruiser?
Thanks so much for any info! Looks like you put in a lot of hard work here! -Andre
I just stumbled on this, so I suppose its a little late, but I just traded in my 1997 Chevrolet Malibu V6 with 48k and a nice option package group (keyless entry, etc) for a new '01 Alero GL1 with the sun and sound package. I felt I got a pretty good deal, but what do you think? Dealer came in at $12700 off the bat, with $5k for the trade. I said no way, knowing that the KBB value was around $6800-7100 and retail at 8900. We eventually got him at $7500 for the trade and 17700 for the Alero (MSRP'd at 20605) for a total of $10200---did we get a good deal?
I think that we have 2 factors against ya. The car and the miles. As you know, most domestic sedans have very steep depreciation. Also, your car has very high mileage on it. Think of it this way: If it were a 1998, at your pace it'd have close to 110K on the clock.
As far as the CD Changer and keyless go, they will help to sell the car but add little to the value of it. Im surprised they had to "sell" you on Silver. It's a good color these days. I've found that features like that can make a sale easier, but they really add very little actual value to a car. Perhaps $50-100 per NADA?
As to your car's value, I'd peg it around $10K or so. There's tons of those with lower miles that sell for $11K-12K. The higher miles will, of course, lower the value of it.
As far as ownership costs... First, you need to pick a car that wont get slaughtered on resale. I;d pick something like a very low mile 98 Accord or Camry. Say you find one with 20K or less on it. Then you can throw 30K on it in a year, and then you have a 4yr old car with 50K or so. That's the way to do it. Either that or Lease (Dont Laugh.. Im serious!) a car WITH THE APPROPRIATE MILEAGE Many captive finance companies can make this an attractive option, it's the only way to drive a very expensive car, for example, this many miles.
It can be, overall, a lot cheaper than buying and trading it and getting punished because of miles. For what I'm guessing this is costing you ($500+ a month in depreciation, assuming you trade annually) you could lease a Lexus ES300 for that a month. Assuming 30K miles per year for 39 months.
Sounds like you did OK. $7,500 is probably a bit more than that car was actually worth ($5,000 is too low) and Im not sure on the Alero, but my guess is that ya did OK.
I doubt that there's much more than $1,700 or so built into them, but I bet there was a $1K incentive at least so sounds like you did do pretty well!
Thanks for the info on my Intrepid. The reason they had to "sell" me on silver is that, prior to this car, I was driving a silver '89 Gran Fury ex-police car, and just didn't really want another silver car, plus it's been my experience that silver cars tend to get hit more often because the color just doesn't stand out. I had so many near-misses with that car (and the Intrepid since then) that it's not even funny!
Now, I'm curious about my roommate's vehicle. It's a 1998 Chevy Tracker, 2 door convertible, 2wd, auto, ac, single cd player, black, alloy wheels, and it has something called an "expressions" package. As far as mileage goes, he's almost as bad as me...he has about 64,000 miles on it! He talks about wanting to trade it in, but I keep telling him he's going to take a bath. He's also on some weird payment plan where he pays so much per month for 47 mos and then pays a lump sum of $5600 on the 48th month. Is this a lease? I looked through his paperwork and couldn't find the word "lease" anywhere in it, but also couldn't find anything stating what the interest rate was, either. All I know is that if it is a lease, he's going to get hit hard with the mileage penalty!
Oh yeah, we live in Maryland...I remember you mentioned that color can make a difference depending on the region.
Thanks again, Bill, for all your great information! -Andre
Maybe someone can shed some light on my vehicle: I'm trying to sell my 98 Chevy Monte Carlo. Now, its a 2 dr, mint condition, only 33k mi, and loaded. I live in Alabama and advertised it all over here to no avail, plus ads online. Nobody has even called or asked about it. Not one. I'd really hate to think my car is un-saleable other than handing it over to a dealer or dropping it off at a junkyard.
I've researched the prices like everyone does and I think I should be able to get $12,900 on the open market. All the other '98 Monte Carlos i see advertised are a little cheaper but have way more miles than mine. I owe a little over $11k on the loan so I will lose big time if I trade - I feel that I SHOULD be able to get at least a thou over my loan.
brentwoodvolvo - Have you ever seen one of these cars cross your lot? What's your experience been with selling them?
Have you tried different selling methods? Newspaper, Autotrader??
However, there's just a ton of them out there at the moment. And the bodystyle has changed. We've had them in before, and no matter how nice, they are pretty tough cars to move.
Wish I could be a bit more positive tho...
Bill
On that note, I recently had a serious hard drive crash, would the town hall member who contacted me please re e-mail me? I downloaded my mail with your number and shortly after that lost my hard drive >:|
I have a 2000 Windstar LX with 19,000 miles on it. I was in an accident with it, and the shop did a great job and you would never know it was in an accident. It looks like it is fresh out of the showroom. I am looking to trade it in, for I do not feel comfortable driving a vehicle that I was in an accident with. If edmunds lists that the dealer should give me 16,000 for it if was totally clean, how much would the fact that it was in an accident take off the amount that they would give me on the trade in?
I really enjoy reading your posts and appreciate you starting this topic!
Here's one for you - 96 Audi A4 Quattro, 2.8l. Silver exterior, black leather interior, cold weather pkg, power moonroof, Bose pkg, 6 disk factory CD-changer, alloys, 67,000 miles, all service records, ex condition. The car is in Maine.
This is a great service that you are providing people. Especially since most car salesmen attempt to commit highway robbery on trade-ins.
I have a 1992 Lexus SC400. Gold with tan interior. Has all available options and is in good condition. Also has 40,000 miles. I have done a lot of research using buying guides and the internet and the consensus is that the wholesale is around $12k-$15k and the retail is around $17-$18K. I have seen them advertised by dealers from $16K-$21K. Haven't received anything close to these figures with any salesman on a trade-in. Tell me the real deal pricing for this ride. Thanks.
First, where was it hit? How much damage was done? What panels were replaced? Did the airbags go off?
And.. umm.. not to sound arrogant.. but I can tell immediately that the car has been hit, so can anyone who will be appraising it.
Yes, it's going to get hit (valuewise). Hard.
Also, let me know the color and what market you're in and let's see what I can help you with. Remember, ya gotta be honest. We do this for a living. I can personally spot paintwork literally 10 feet away as a rule.
Get me a little more info and I'll get you an idea of what to really expect.
Glad to be of help! I think I'm trying to help both here. You know what your car's really worth, and you also know if a dealer's really being fair or unfair.
Now, on to your SC400. Assuming its' got a Moonroof, Nakamichi Stereo with CD Changer, heated seats and TRAC... and that its' clean and doesnt have paintwork...
It's worth about $12-13K Wholesale.
However... trading a car like that isnt smart. Selling it yourself is. Heck, list it on eBay, I bet it'd pull close to $16K++ there with those miles on it, which is what you ought to get privately.
If it helps, we sold an immaculate 1995 SC400 tonight at our store with 71K miles on it for $16,900. Granted that's more miles, but it was Pearl White (better color) and it was a 1995...
Thanks so much for the info on my Intrepid and my friend's Tracker. I had a feeling his Tracker wouldn't be worth much.
I'm curious, though...what is a captive finance company? I might consider leasing the next time around if they make it sound attractive enough.
As for the Intrepid, I'll probably just drive it as long as it's fairly reliable. So far so good, but by the time it's paid off, it'll have about 140-150K miles on it. But it sounds like I'll have negative equity in it right up until the last year of payments. I probably won't buy another new car though...I just rag them out too quickly!
We are looking at trading in a 2000 Odyssey EX, with 12K and with leather. Because of sales tax implications I would rather trade if I could get a fair price. BrentwoodVolvo...Any thoughts...
A Captive Finance company is one run by the manufacturer. I.E. Chrysler Financial, Lexus Financial, Jaguar Credit, Ford Credit, GMAC.
They're usually the ones who run the super lease deals.
Like Lexus did last month on Non-Value Package RX300s:
.00256 Money factor, 64% 39 month residual.
An outside bank like SunTrust or Chevy Chase would have been like:
60% Residual and .00325 Money factor. Without going into how a lease works, Lexus Financial would be about $100 or so a month cheaper!
That's because they're there to help sell cars, and the Banks are there to make money. However, not all cars get Lease support from the factory. When I was with Jaguar, we'd be insane to run an S-Type, XJ8, XJ8L or Vanden Plas through anyone but Jaguar Credit.
However, since there was no support on XK8s, XKRs Supercharged Vanden Plas or XJRs,(Cars that did not need to have competitive or cheap leases to sell) we ran all of them through outside banks as it gave the customer a much lower payment.
Yours is in a decent color, and assuming that the nick in the back bumper is all that's ever been damaged on it, (I'd say that'll hurt it by no more than $200)..
It ought to be worth somewhere around $23-24,000 based on the data I have. Very few of these are out there on the wholesale market, but based on my info, that's what you ought to expect.
First - I cannot believe you are still doing this all these months later - What a marvelous service! Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Second - I need someone who knows what's what to confirm what I already know but cannot bring myself to acknowledge:
A Burgundy '92 Buick Century 3.3 v6, 110k, Severe Dent in driver's door, Broken tailight, Bent rear quarter panel, cracked windshield, minor hail damage is worth virtually NOTHING on trade (?) even though it has a bunch of bells and whistles, runs well, and has terrific paint.
It is time for the junkyard/charity/handthekeystothenephew route, isn't it?
(BTW Do dealers have any interest in just TAKING cars like this? (In other words: here are the keys, I know you cannot give me money, but take it anyway?))
ok. On to the trade Umm... ok, so you know it isnt worth much. I wouldnt giv it away though. I'd donate it to a charity and get the tax deduction myself.
Or give it to your nephew. I mean, if the car is worthless ($500 max) we may be able to wholesale it, but personally I wouldnt want it. It'd be a lot more aggravation than its' worth.
And you are right about it's value. Here's how I'd mutter to myself if I saw it:
Although, at least you're not coming in with a Kelley Blue Book trade-in sheet showing the car being worth $3,800 inb "excellent" shape or something ))
Thought you'd get a kick out of this. It is true. (I'm staining the keyboard with brake dust and engine grime as I write this).
Over the past 20 hours since I posted my query, my "is it time for the Buick to go away" situation has clarified itself significantly:
1) Overnight the starter motor solenoid somehow froze "on", clicking away merrily until the battery drained completely. 2) The right rear tire blew out five minutes after a kind stranger gave me a jump 3) The head of the lug wrench snapped off when I went to crack the nuts 4) Upon resumption of motoring (after finding another kind stranger who had a lug wrench), the rear brakes seized up as though I were driving with the parking brake on (it was not, though I'd never put it past me to pull a stunt like that)
Ahhh... it is time for the turn of the Century, I think.
I'm looking to find out what I can expect to get for my car if I trade it in. It's a 1997 Honda Prelude SH, manual transmission, sunroof, all options. The mileage is high, about 72k. The car is in excellent shape except for a few minor door dings (nothing real noticable).
This car is a lease and about 24k over on mileage. At 15 cents a mile, that's about $3600. If I was to just turn the car in at the end of the lease, would the dealer expect all of that money right away...or can I pay payments? I have been told by one dealer that he has never seen that show up on a credit report if it isn't paid. Just curious.
And does the word "volvo" in your Town Hall name have significance? Curious as our NEW 1972 Volvo 145S was one of the worst purchases I ever made. A co-worker had a 1973 Volvo 144E that also needed constant, expensive repairs. The newspaper today had an excellent review of the Lexus LS 430 written by Tom Incantalupo (copyrighted by Newsday). Summary could be stated that Lexus has created much grief for DaimlerBenz. Are Edmunds, NADA, etc. internet quotes very far off the real world? I noticed Edmunds gives a higher value for GC, Ody and Sienna than NADA. Car dealers in Rocky Mountain Region do NOT accept the accessory add-ons in pricing guides. This in turn, makes the Odyssey much better for retaining value than even the Sienna...with DC a very big loser.
I am wondering if the well below NADA + KBB wholesale or trade-in values dealers are offering, even after walking out and stalling for weeks/months, is all part of this:
1. Too many used cars, as a result of leasing?
2. Trying to get buyers to convert to leasing, by offering low trade-ins?
3. Trying to wholesale or auction the car for a profit, instead of putting it on the lot?
Comments
I have a base 2000 Ford Mustang coupe, silver, automatic, power seat, cruise, spoiler. It has <6000 miles in good condition. I am in El Paso, Tx.
KBB lists the trade-in value as $15,500. Edmunds TMV says $13,575. What's the real-world trade-in value?
Thanks,
Curtis
I have a 1993 SC2 Saturn that I thinking about trading in for a new vehicle and would like an idea of the value. It has 5-speed, red,par windows/locks, alloy wheels, cruise, and in good shape but has 108K miles. I am in callas TX..
thanks
I'd say that your car ought to be classified as "good" by Kelley Blue Book if its' free of any paintwork and only has a couple of small dings. Even then you may be a little bit high. But I still think that it's worth about $5,500.
Perhaps this will help all of the "lurkers" out there when classifying a car on the net:
An "Excellent" car is one with incredibly low mileage, is incredibly clean. It's got all the right options, has never had any kind of damage or paintwork at all. It's never been smoked in, been driven an average of 5K a year, and has been serviced by a dealer, with the service book stamped, every 3 months. It's also in the right color, at the right time of year, etc.
Let's say it's a Silver 1998 Jaguar XK8 Convertible with Premium Sound, in Florida, In March/April, with 11K miles and it's just perfect. It's the car that once you see it, you have to look at the VIN to tell its' not new.
In my opion, and based on my experience, very very few "mass-market" cars will classify here, no matter how nice. There's just too many Accords/Camrys/Explorers/Tauruses/etc out there on the market.
Now, a "Good" or "Clean" car has low mileage, about 10-12K a year and is in excellent condition and free of paintwork. It's in a good or decent color and has been well taken care of.
A "Fair" or "Average" car may be a clean car in Purple, Brown or Black/Black in FL. But its' still in nice shape. May have a few dings or a minor scrape here, but it's a decent car. Say a Hunter Green 1998 Accord with 42K miles and a few dings. An otherwise "clean" car will classify a bit below this if its' had a bit of paintwork.
Hope this helps!
Bill
Originally from Tenafly, NJ btw
There's tons of them running through the sales at about $11,500-12,000 or so, but they have higher miles.
Hope this helps!
Bill
That's about where they seem to be selling right now.
Hope this helps!
Bill
Bill
Trying to find out the trade-in value of the following
1998 Mercury Sable - 46,000 miles 6 cyl 3.0L 24 Valve DOHC
Tan/Tan, leather, power moonroof, climate control, alarm,
bucket seats
Good condition.
As a trade for a 2001 I30T, they're giving me around 7800.
KBB has it at 9000 and Edmunds at 10,500(as trade in)
tia
jim
I ran your car against the Black Book (Which is based on actual auction transactions) And what they are doing at the auctions themselves.
98 Sable LSs with miles in the 40s are averaging about $8,000 or so at auction. I'd peg the car's dead cash value, based on what I'm seeing, at about $7,500-8,000. Recently a 45K mile one did $7,250.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but the wholesale market is just flooded with Sables and Tauruses. There's just a ton of them out there and they tend to go begging. A mileagey one is just not a car any dealer really wants at anything but a "low book" number. The Infiniti Dealer's number may be a bit light, but it is reasonable.
Also, be careful with KBB's classifications. I'd use fair or good only if the car is absolutely perfect.
Hope this helps!
Bill
I'd appreciate your take on the actual trade in for a 91 Legend I coupe, dark blue, 160K miles, auto, ad changer, everything except leather, rear spoiler, chrome wheels, got a few digs and a couple of small interior stains, no mechanical problems. Edmunds has it at about $5K for average condition, BB at $5,285 for fair condition.
Thanks.
Do you think dealers are trying to rip me off
Also, the cloth interior does hurt it a bit. Even so, that's not bad after 10 years!
Bill
$6,500 is "on the money" for that car. The Low miles do help. If it had miles in the 50K Range, then it's worth about $4,500.
$6,200 may be a tad light, $6,600 though is quite fair.
Please don;t take this the wrong way, but "mass market" American cars tend to clog the auction lanes. As a result, since there's just so many of them out there, they tend to go for cheap. Taurus/Sable/Lumina/Malibus are the best examples of this. As a rule, the only cars that bring "clean" book are low-mile, high-demand, low-production cars in outstanding condition. You'll see highline imports (BMW, MB, Jaguar, etc) do this if theyre the right color and have the right equipment on a regular basis. You won't see Camrys, Accords, F150s, Blazers, etc do this as there's just tons of them out there.
Point is, no matter how good of a deal you get, it's always wisest to go for a good deal on a clean 2-yr old Domestic sedan.
I liken this to my "Cadillac" Example. While MSRP on a 2000 Sedan DeVille with Leather and alloys and CD would have been, what, about $42K? I can buy dozens of clean ones for about $24-25K all day long with miles in the low teens.
Hope this helps!
Bill
It's a 98 Lexus GS300, silver, black leather interior, 19K miles (very low), leather, cd-changer, moonroof, heated seats, mats, and wheel locks - basically everything except Nak and nav. It is an absolutely perfect, one-owner, never in an accident, non-smoker, no blemish sort of car.
Three on-line books all show $31-$32K wholesale, but since I see cars like this on the lots for $34-$37K ask (but usually with 40K miles), I assume they sell for $32-$35K. Thus, this wholesale seemed high to me and I was hoping for $30K, but would have taken $28K.
Low and behold, the dealer wrinkled his nose, called around to several dealers and came back with $25K, absolute tops. Is my car (a Lexus) really work $6-$7K below book wholesale?
If so, I'm going to drive it for awhile. It is a hell of a nice car for $25K!
- Mark
I work for Lexus. That does seem sort of low for that car. They have been doing closer to the $28K Mark. In fact, we got $25K out of one similar to yours but it had paintwork and a few more miles. This was a few months ago however. Now, if your car has had paintwork, its' value is slaughtered. If it's missing a roof or leather, same deal. GS300s without those options generally trade on a wholesale level for about $5,000 or so less than cars with them.
Also, your car is in the right color combo for quite a few markets.
That being said, where is the car? Black Interior is a killer here in FL, but a good thing in NY City/NJ.
Even so, it's really worth $28-29K. It's only worth $25K If it's Antique Bronze or some other gross color. It's worth $26-27K if its' Cinnabar, Spectra Blue or Imperial Jade Green.
This assumes a clean, no paintwork car though!
Gimme some more info.. lemme see where we can go from there.
Bill
Highest ANY GS300 has been sold at auction lately is about $30K.
Bill
INKY
We regularly take in trades where the wholesale value of the car is $30,000++++++. The sales tax advantage on that can be enormous. And most of our customers do not have the time nor patience to sell their cars outright.
Bill
I'm hoping to buy a new luxury SUV in January or February. In response to my tentative inquiries, the local dealer here in Austin, TX, has appeared uninterested in considering a price even $5 below MSRP for it, so I will probably have to go out-of-town or out-of-state to purchase it. This probable circumstance, together with the age of my current car, suggests that I will have to either sell my current car myself or give it to a charity such as the Salvation Army. Either way, I'd like to get some idea of what it's worth, especially at wholesale since I'm leaning toward the Salvation Army option and want to be conservative in what I will ultimately report to the Internal Revenue Service as the estimated value of my donation.
The car in question is a 1990 Chevrolet G20 van, customized by Explorer Vans of Warsaw, IN, who do high-quality customizations. My wife and I bought the car new from a Chevrolet dealer in Dallas, TX, in August 1990 and have driven it 120,500 miles to date. We have had it serviced (oil-change and lubrication) every 3,000 miles at a Chevrolet dealer and have had all the 30,000-mile interval services done on schedule at a Chevrolet dealer. It has had one very gentle collision (I rear-ended another car in slippery conditions) that led to replacing the front bumper but with no sheet-metal work needed; it has been involved in no other accidents. No one has ever smoked in the car.
The van has the 5.7 liter V8 engine. The engine and the 4-speed automatic transmission have given no trouble whatsoever. It has power brakes, power steering, power windows, power door locks, and tiltable steering wheel. It still has its original white paint.
The Explorer Van customization provided 4 captain's chairs in the first 2 rows of seats. The driver's seat is power-adjustable. The third row of seating is a bench sofa that powers down into a bed and back up into a bench seat. This sofa also has powered fore-and-aft movement. The radio and tape-player are a Delco premium unit with equalizer. Also provided by Explorer Van is a rear air-conditioner evaporator and fan. The air-conditioner is Freon-based, and although it still cools, it is no longer fully capable of handling the peak heat of Austin summers. The customization also includes running boards, several interior reading and map lights, and even a 12-volt vacuum cleaner.
I haven't found any price listings for used custom vans on Edmund's or other Internet sources, so I'm hoping very much that you will be able to find something relevant in the auction listings that you have access to. The closest I've been able to come is KBB, which--with my rating the car as "good"--returned an estimate of $,2585 for trade-in value; however, this doesn't specifically reflect (at least, so far as I can tell) the customization work. Also, I'm not clear on how "trade-in" value compares with "wholesale" value.
Many thanks in advance for your help.
Ron Wyllys
First, let me make a more accurate suggestion: Sell this baby on your own! Conversion vans can be very difficult to appraise. For the heck of it, I asked a wholesaler I know who deals with them occasionally what he thought it may be worth.
He pegged it at $2,000-2,500 or so.. Here's how we truthfully looked at it: 11yrs old, 120K, Bad R12 AC. Again, it does sound like a Nice van and all, however, this is pretty much backed up by what little auction data I have to go on.
Still, I can look into it further if you'd like, but even so I think that $2-2500 is about the figure on it.
Bill
I'd say that that Vehicle probably has a retail value of somewhere around $4,900 or so.
Bill
I have a 2000 Dodge Intrepid, base model, with a 2.7L V-6. It has about 34,500 miles on it right now, and is stock except for a Viper alarm/remote entry that I had Circuit City install after it got broken into, and a Mopar 12-disk trunk-mounted C/D changer that the dealer threw in as an incentive to get me to take a silver car. I just had the tranny serviced and new tires put on at 30,000 miles, and have changed the oil about every 3500-4000 miles. I have had none of this done at the dealer, though, as they just wanted too much and/or took too long. I can change the oil myself in about 20 mins for about $10.00. By the time I drove down there and had them change it, it would be more like 1 1/2 to 2 hours, and at least $20+
Body-wise, it's fine, except for a couple dings in the plastic bumpers, a couple scrapes where I curbed the hubcaps, and a scratch or two in the bodyside molding. I know it's going to take a beating, simply because Mopars, no matter how reliable they end up being, have a stigma to them. I to the KBB site, and they priced it at $10,140/11,385/12,760 for the fair/good/excellent breakdowns. The KBB lists its retail at $16,055. Just out of curiosity, I priced an Impala with the same stats as my Intrepid, and it listed at $10,340/$12,035/$12,960 trade-in and $15,905 retail. Judging from that, it doesn't look like the Intrepid is getting slammed any worse than similar American cars.
Does adding the remote entry and 12-disk changer add much, if anything to the value? My guess is that it may make the car easier to sell, but won't actually make it bring in a higher dollar amount (although I know whoever ends up retailing it again is bound to try to add for those features!) At the rate I drive, the car is going to get about 25-30K miles a year, and I only put a minimum down, so I'm sure I'll always be upside down on it until the final few payments.
Any guess as to what point in the car's life I should trade it in while taking as gentle of a beating as possible? If I traded in on a Honda or Toyota or something that traditionally doesn't depreciate as fast, would I still take as much of a beating considering the miles I drive? Or would I be better off just selling the Intrepid outright when the time is right, and just take Grandma's '85 LeSabre out of mothballs, drive it till it drops, and then go find another fully-depreciated battlecruiser?
Thanks so much for any info! Looks like you put in a lot of hard work here!
-Andre
Many thanks for your advice and help concerning my custom Chevrolet van.
Ron
Dealer came in at $12700 off the bat, with $5k for the trade. I said no way, knowing that the KBB value was around $6800-7100 and retail at 8900. We eventually got him at $7500 for the trade and 17700 for the Alero (MSRP'd at 20605) for a total of $10200---did we get a good deal?
I think that we have 2 factors against ya. The car and the miles. As you know, most domestic sedans have very steep depreciation. Also, your car has very high mileage on it. Think of it this way: If it were a 1998, at your pace it'd have close to 110K on the clock.
As far as the CD Changer and keyless go, they will help to sell the car but add little to the value of it. Im surprised they had to "sell" you on Silver. It's a good color these days. I've found that features like that can make a sale easier, but they really add very little actual value to a car. Perhaps $50-100 per NADA?
As to your car's value, I'd peg it around $10K or so. There's tons of those with lower miles that sell for $11K-12K. The higher miles will, of course, lower the value of it.
As far as ownership costs... First, you need to pick a car that wont get slaughtered on resale. I;d pick something like a very low mile 98 Accord or Camry. Say you find one with 20K or less on it. Then you can throw 30K on it in a year, and then you have a 4yr old car with 50K or so. That's the way to do it. Either that or Lease (Dont Laugh.. Im serious!) a car WITH THE APPROPRIATE MILEAGE Many captive finance companies can make this an attractive option, it's the only way to drive a very expensive car, for example, this many miles.
It can be, overall, a lot cheaper than buying and trading it and getting punished because of miles. For what I'm guessing this is costing you ($500+ a month in depreciation, assuming you trade annually) you could lease a Lexus ES300 for that a month. Assuming 30K miles per year for 39 months.
Something to consider, eh?
Hope this helps!
Bill
I doubt that there's much more than $1,700 or so built into them, but I bet there was a $1K incentive at least so sounds like you did do pretty well!
However, Im still not sure on the Olds market.
I do hear that the Alero is a nice car tho!
Bill
Thanks for the info on my Intrepid. The reason they had to "sell" me on silver is that, prior to this car, I was driving a silver '89 Gran Fury ex-police car, and just didn't really want another silver car, plus it's been my experience that silver cars tend to get hit more often because the color just doesn't stand out. I had so many near-misses with that car (and the Intrepid since then) that it's not even funny!
Now, I'm curious about my roommate's vehicle. It's a 1998 Chevy Tracker, 2 door convertible, 2wd, auto, ac, single cd player, black, alloy wheels, and it has something called an "expressions" package. As far as mileage goes, he's almost as bad as me...he has about 64,000 miles on it! He talks about wanting to trade it in, but I keep telling him he's going to take a bath. He's also on some weird payment plan where he pays so much per month for 47 mos and then pays a lump sum of $5600 on the 48th month. Is this a lease? I looked through his paperwork and couldn't find the word "lease" anywhere in it, but also couldn't find anything stating what the interest rate was, either. All I know is that if it is a lease, he's going to get hit hard with the mileage penalty!
Oh yeah, we live in Maryland...I remember you mentioned that color can make a difference depending on the region.
Thanks again, Bill, for all your great information!
-Andre
Gotcha on the Silver. Makes sense now
Ohhh... you and your roommate both drive a lot. Umm, bad news first I suppose?
The Tracker is worth about $4K Wholesale.
Sounds to me like he's in a ballon payment program. These are like leases, but without many of the advantages of a lease. Not a great Idea IMHO.
Yes, he can still get hit with miles on a Baloon I think as well.
Bill
I've researched the prices like everyone does and I think I should be able to get $12,900 on the open market. All the other '98 Monte Carlos i see advertised are a little cheaper but have way more miles than mine. I owe a little over $11k on the loan so I will lose big time if I trade - I feel that I SHOULD be able to get at least a thou over my loan.
brentwoodvolvo - Have you ever seen one of these cars cross your lot? What's your experience been with selling them?
is that a bad color to sell here in the southeast (Alabama) ??
Have you tried different selling methods? Newspaper, Autotrader??
However, there's just a ton of them out there at the moment. And the bodystyle has changed. We've had them in before, and no matter how nice, they are pretty tough cars to move.
Wish I could be a bit more positive tho...
Bill
On that note, I recently had a serious hard drive crash, would the town hall member who contacted me please re e-mail me? I downloaded my mail with your number and shortly after that lost my hard drive >:|
I hate Laptops!
I was in an accident with it, and the shop did a great job and you would never know it was in an accident. It looks like it is fresh out of the showroom. I am looking to trade it in, for I do not feel comfortable driving a vehicle that I was in an accident with. If edmunds lists that the dealer should give me 16,000 for it if was totally clean, how much would the fact that it was in an accident take off the amount that they would give me on the trade in?
Thanks
I really enjoy reading your posts and appreciate you starting this topic!
Here's one for you - 96 Audi A4 Quattro, 2.8l. Silver exterior, black leather interior, cold weather pkg, power moonroof, Bose pkg, 6 disk factory CD-changer, alloys, 67,000 miles, all service records, ex condition. The car is in Maine.
Any idea what I should be looking for?
Mark
This is a great service that you are providing people. Especially since most car salesmen attempt to commit highway robbery on trade-ins.
I have a 1992 Lexus SC400. Gold with tan interior. Has all available options and is in good condition. Also has 40,000 miles. I have done a lot of research using buying guides and the internet and the consensus is that the wholesale is around $12k-$15k and the retail is around $17-$18K. I have seen them advertised by dealers from $16K-$21K. Haven't received anything close to these figures with any salesman on a trade-in. Tell me the real deal pricing for this ride. Thanks.
First, where was it hit? How much damage was done? What panels were replaced? Did the airbags go off?
And.. umm.. not to sound arrogant.. but I can tell immediately that the car has been hit, so can anyone who will be appraising it.
Yes, it's going to get hit (valuewise). Hard.
Also, let me know the color and what market you're in and let's see what I can help you with. Remember, ya gotta be honest. We do this for a living. I can personally spot paintwork literally 10 feet away as a rule.
Get me a little more info and I'll get you an idea of what to really expect.
Bill
I'd peg the car, if clean, between $12,500-$13,500.
Towards the low end of the range if it's a 5-speed, towards the higer end of the range if it's an automatic.
It's the right color combo for it, and the right market for a Quattro!
Now, if it was a Purple FWD.. you'd get killed
Hope this helps!
Bill
Glad to be of help! I think I'm trying to help both here. You know what your car's really worth, and you also know if a dealer's really being fair or unfair.
Now, on to your SC400. Assuming its' got a Moonroof, Nakamichi Stereo with CD Changer, heated seats and TRAC... and that its' clean and doesnt have paintwork...
It's worth about $12-13K Wholesale.
However... trading a car like that isnt smart. Selling it yourself is. Heck, list it on eBay, I bet it'd pull close to $16K++ there with those miles on it, which is what you ought to get privately.
If it helps, we sold an immaculate 1995 SC400 tonight at our store with 71K miles on it for $16,900. Granted that's more miles, but it was Pearl White (better color) and it was a 1995...
Hope this helps!
Bill
Its the 5-speed. How much more do you think I could get by selling privately?
Mark
I'm curious, though...what is a captive finance company? I might consider leasing the next time around if they make it sound attractive enough.
As for the Intrepid, I'll probably just drive it as long as it's fairly reliable. So far so good, but by the time it's paid off, it'll have about 140-150K miles on it. But it sounds like I'll have negative equity in it right up until the last year of payments. I probably won't buy another new car though...I just rag them out too quickly!
Thanks again for the insight!
-Andre
From the description you gave, it sounds like a pretty hot car in your market.
It ought to sell reasonably easy.
Bill
A Captive Finance company is one run by the manufacturer. I.E. Chrysler Financial, Lexus Financial, Jaguar Credit, Ford Credit, GMAC.
They're usually the ones who run the super lease deals.
Like Lexus did last month on Non-Value Package RX300s:
.00256 Money factor, 64% 39 month residual.
An outside bank like SunTrust or Chevy Chase would have been like:
60% Residual and .00325 Money factor. Without going into how a lease works, Lexus Financial would be about $100 or so a month cheaper!
That's because they're there to help sell cars, and the Banks are there to make money. However, not all cars get Lease support from the factory. When I was with Jaguar, we'd be insane to run an S-Type, XJ8, XJ8L or Vanden Plas through anyone but Jaguar Credit.
However, since there was no support on XK8s, XKRs Supercharged Vanden Plas or XJRs,(Cars that did not need to have competitive or cheap leases to sell) we ran all of them through outside banks as it gave the customer a much lower payment.
Bill
Yours is in a decent color, and assuming that the nick in the back bumper is all that's ever been damaged on it, (I'd say that'll hurt it by no more than $200)..
It ought to be worth somewhere around $23-24,000 based on the data I have. Very few of these are out there on the wholesale market, but based on my info, that's what you ought to expect.
Hope this helps!
Bill
First - I cannot believe you are still doing this all these months later - What a marvelous service! Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Second - I need someone who knows what's what to confirm what I already know but cannot bring myself to acknowledge:
A Burgundy '92 Buick Century 3.3 v6, 110k, Severe Dent in driver's door, Broken tailight, Bent rear quarter panel, cracked windshield, minor hail damage is worth virtually NOTHING on trade (?) even though it has a bunch of bells and whistles, runs well, and has terrific paint.
It is time for the junkyard/charity/handthekeystothenephew route, isn't it?
(BTW Do dealers have any interest in just TAKING cars like this? (In other words: here are the keys, I know you cannot give me money, but take it anyway?))
Regards,
Scott
ok. On to the trade Umm... ok, so you know it isnt worth much. I wouldnt giv it away though. I'd donate it to a charity and get the tax deduction myself.
Or give it to your nephew. I mean, if the car is worthless ($500 max) we may be able to wholesale it, but personally I wouldnt want it. It'd be a lot more aggravation than its' worth.
And you are right about it's value. Here's how I'd mutter to myself if I saw it:
"Ugh, Frame damage, broken light, dented, 9yrs old.. ugh"
Although, at least you're not coming in with a Kelley Blue Book trade-in sheet showing the car being worth $3,800 inb "excellent" shape or something
Bill
Thought you'd get a kick out of this. It is true. (I'm staining the keyboard with brake dust and engine grime as I write this).
Over the past 20 hours since I posted my query, my "is it time for the Buick to go away" situation has clarified itself significantly:
1) Overnight the starter motor solenoid somehow froze "on", clicking away merrily until the battery drained completely.
2) The right rear tire blew out five minutes after a kind stranger gave me a jump
3) The head of the lug wrench snapped off when I went to crack the nuts
4) Upon resumption of motoring (after finding another kind stranger who had a lug wrench), the rear brakes seized up as though I were driving with the parking brake on (it was not, though I'd never put it past me to pull a stunt like that)
Ahhh... it is time for the turn of the Century, I think.
I appreciate your help!
-Scott
This car is a lease and about 24k over on mileage. At 15 cents a mile, that's about $3600. If I was to just turn the car in at the end of the lease, would the dealer expect all of that money right away...or can I pay payments? I have been told by one dealer that he has never seen that show up on a credit report if it isn't paid. Just curious.
Thanks.
The newspaper today had an excellent review of the Lexus LS 430 written by Tom Incantalupo (copyrighted by Newsday). Summary could be stated that Lexus has created much grief for DaimlerBenz.
Are Edmunds, NADA, etc. internet quotes very far off the real world? I noticed Edmunds gives a higher value for GC, Ody and Sienna than NADA.
Car dealers in Rocky Mountain Region do NOT accept the accessory add-ons in pricing guides. This in turn, makes the Odyssey much better for retaining value than even the Sienna...with DC a very big loser.
1. Too many used cars, as a result of leasing?
2. Trying to get buyers to convert to leasing, by offering low trade-ins?
3. Trying to wholesale or auction the car for a profit, instead of putting it on the lot?
Refer to next post for my trade-in experience.
Art